Whew, Now things are right with the world! Nothing a little bit of Grey Goose won't sort out!

Extreme!

I appreciate the offer on the GSC 450s in 458, but I have a box of North Forks and they are so close I don't think there would be two cents worth of difference if any at all between the two of them. Both perform very well, the North Forks do a great job, I am 100% sure the GS Customs would be the same! I will test them if you want, but I got a pretty good idea what they will do, and it's good!

Enjoy my posts? Man you must be short for entertainment there in Auburn IN! Glad you enjoy however! I am simple too, no worries with that!

Well, might have to go have a nip at that Goose again!

Michael

416Tanzan

Yeah, ok, 338 too! I just now looked at my stock, I thought I had 225 338 caliber TSXs, what I have is 358 caliber. Have to get some in from Midway on the next order, which is tomorrow. Sorry, I thought for sure I had some of those! Have them by Tuesday I suppose.

OK, back to the Goose! What is a Tanzan anyway? Never heard of one?

Michael

quote:

68" as a minimum (guess) for 550 grains with 72.5 as a max. But might go south at 49".

Scratch that. The 550 grain is too rounded. Not enough flat surface, like I was assuming. I'll say 68" as a maximum, but I still hold to about 49" as the point where it deviates. (I'm thinking a rounded bullet might perform like a worn-out Dunlop on wet pavement, but that's just an opinion.)

thought it would be clear,

a Tanzan is someone who is too lazy to
write Tanzania,
a place some of you have visited

also, as you might guess from my having an interest in 338 and 416 calibres,
I am particularly interested in multipurpose rifles, useful for antelope at long range and also for buffalo up close. My budgets don't ever include elephant. But even those of us tight budgets still need excellent information for making bullet choices when we would be walking through the savanna forests.

416Tanzan

Please forgive some of us (mostly me) a little slow I suppose! I got you now, Tanzania eh, I was there in 2005. Had a great time, except every time I turned around someone had their hand out! I think I paid some sort of tax for my shoe laces too! I had to pay a kidnapping fee, the guy kidnapped all my trophies, blamed it on the government of course, then held them hostage again for shipping, and then didn't have all the paper work filled out proper on top of that. I was lucky, after about a month of dealing with Fish & Wildlife I only lost one zebra hide! I consider myself fortunate on that one! Was glad I went to Tanzan, but I doubt I will return. Hell, can't afford it!

Welcome by the way! Glad to have you! Tell you what, I will make a special effort and get those 338s in the box! Loads have been laying around for a couple of months at least. I will also get us in some of the 225 TSXs and run them hot in the Ultra, see what we get!

Glen

You been in the corn mash for real eh? I like the looks of 465HH big 550 Woodleighs, and yes he has used them to shoot many many damn elephants and buffalo! But this box I have is tough on those bullets, damn sight tougher than buffalo and elephant. I say at the most 40 inches before they turn out! Never make 49 inches, not straight! I am not real sure they will make 40, I am just being kind! Truth? guessing 35 inches before they start to veer off course!

No slight on 465HH at all. Just I know what this mix is going to do with them, or at least I think I know?

Now I have a good story about 465HH. I happen to think he is a fine fellow. Hell he can't be too bad, he spent time with my Hero Elmer, so something good had to have rubbed of on him along the way. I can also tell you our boy 465HH is a buffalo/elephant shooter with a good deal of experience in that arena. Now he has some little quirks, likes round nose bullets and a few small things like that, but overall he seems to be a pretty fair and good fellow! Now in speaking to him recently I do have some concerns I have to mention. I found it hard to believe but he had a bit of a problem understanding my "southern accent". I was not even trying to really lay it on either, I was just speaking as I normally would. Now I can really lay it on if I need to, but I was just speaking normal, trying not to drawl on too much. But I could tell we had a bit of a communication issue. Now I don't know exactly for sure, but 465HH says he is from Idaho, but I am not so sure there wasn't a "yankee" delivering milk to his house at one time or another? 465HH might have a touch of Yankee in him. But, since he is such a fine fellow, reckon I will overlook it if he does!


Now I simply must go attend to that goose!

Michael

Michael,

I have a good fiend fom Texas that can act as translater for us.

465h&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Michael,

I have a good fiend fom Texas that can act as translater for us.

465h&H

Well I'll be, I didn't know they could speak English over there?

Thank you, Michael458.

If you're ordering those 338's, I would recommend the TTSX (the tipped version of the 225grain).
they have a better bc, are a 'newer model', and they may have a slightly different composition or expansion cavity. Might as well test the 'state of their (Barnes') art.

Michael,

Your proposal of using a FN monometal follow up shot to the 1st shot Noncon to assure maximum penetration on a running away game animal makes perfect sense.

Unfortunately within the realm of LOFAN big game regulations require the use of soft nose or hollow point bullets and these regulations have been superseded by laws requiring hunting bullets and shot within the habitat of the giant buzzard to be lead free; i.e., must have less than 1% lead in metal composition. There are current attempts to expand the lead free zone realm wide so needless to say, within the realm of LOFAN there is great interest in the performance of Noncon bullets.

Interestingly within the realm of LOFAN the NF Cup Point has been approved for big game hunting in all giant buzzard zones so I guess the “cup” qualified as a hollow point. So the NF CP with its minimal expansion capabilities would have to suffice as the follow up 2nd shot for big game.

Do you happen to possess any NF CP in any caliber for future testing? Or do you need to have some provided to you? And if so in what caliber?

quote:

Glen

You been in the corn mash for real eh? I like the looks of 465HH big 550 Woodleighs, and yes he has used them to shoot many many damn elephants and buffalo! But this box I have is tough on those bullets, damn sight tougher than buffalo and elephant. I say at the most 40 inches before they turn out! Never make 49 inches, not straight! I am not real sure they will make 40, I am just being kind! Truth? guessing 35 inches before they start to veer off course!

No, no corn mash for me, thanks.

I don't really take my own guesses seriously, or anyone else's for that matter. I do, however, believe in tests and actual experience.

quote:

Unfortunately within the realm of LOFAN big game regulations require the use of soft nose or hollow point bullets and these regulations have been superseded by laws requiring hunting bullets and shot within the habitat of the giant buzzard to be lead free; i.e., must have less than 1% lead in metal composition. There are current attempts to expand the lead free zone realm wide so needless to say, within the realm of LOFAN there is great interest in the performance of Noncon bullets.

Interestingly within the realm of LOFAN the NF Cup Point has been approved for big game hunting in all giant buzzard zones so I guess the “cup” qualified as a hollow point. So the NF CP with its minimal expansion capabilities would have to suffice as the follow up 2nd shot for big game.

Say What? LOFAN???? Jim, are you hitting the corn too? No man, what? OK, being from SC and NEVER watching CNN I am lost as a baby goat! So this must be some California thing right? So this Mr. Lofan says you can't shoot lead bullets at these buzzards, but in the same breath a hunting bullet must have 1% lead in the composition? Huh?????? Lead Free, but must have 1% lead content?

Let me say this one more time so as there is no confusion. Huhhh? Now imagine me sitting here, stupid look on my face (easy), I am turning my head sideways in confusion, left side of my upper lip curled up somewhat, nose crinkled up, saying to myself, huhhhhh? I don't get it? I am sure it has something to do with the goose! Huhhhhhh, again?

California has always been a confusing place to me?

Hey, I have SC news for you that I did not know until today! As I understand, the state passed a new law 3 months ago to the effect that any state teacher that wishes to carry a gun to school for his or her protection is now allowed to do so, on school property during school hours! How about that! Thank God I still live in a free state! No, all you yankees go back home please you can't come here. You already ruined your part of the country, stay there, we really don't want you here!

Next!

Glen,
No corn mash? Well, how about mashed taters and some grits? LOL! Every time I guess at something I get it shoved.......well, anyway I agree, I don't even take my own guesses serious, I believe in the tests too.

Ok OK OK, I am sorry, meant no harm to all my yankee friends, which so happens is quite a few! But I still call'em yankees anyway.

Good night chaps it's dark and all good hillbillys go to bed when it gets dark! Have to hit that damn goose just one more time before hitting the hay, one might say!

Later

Michael

.

Alf,
You win the "Boer Hunting Shrine and Watering Hole" award.
In a class of its own!
What do you think of Kentucky Bourbon?

Michael,
A toast to your bullet cache.
Insert double shot of Buffalo Trace here.
DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

I think I need to schedule a trip to argue with both Alf and Michael, as long as they are buying!

465H&H

RIP, Now you are speaking my language! Knob Creek?

Am building my Pa's bar currently, and I think it will be finished before his kitchen! Marble and HD cabinets, but small. But the house is a converted horse barn, so it all suits nicely. He's the Gray Goose Guy here.

Michael458, The original offer was just to test them against some of the others, in the issue of vearing off course (what was being discussed at the time). I'm sure they are very similar to the NF's, but a few things better. Guess I'll just have to ask Gerard.

Yes, Auburn is a little short on entertainment when the Kruse Auction isn't going, but I said all that because I enjoy all the pictures you post and your sense of humor is much like my own. Just like to see what else you have posted from time to time...what bullets you shot this week!

Are you going to be at SHOT? Hope to see some of you there.

quote:

Say What? LOFAN???? Jim, are you hitting the corn too? No man, what? OK, being from SC and NEVER watching CNN I am lost as a baby goat! So this must be some California thing right? So this Mr. Lofan says you can't shoot lead bullets at these buzzards, but in the same breath a hunting bullet must have 1% lead in the composition? Huh?????? Lead Free, but must have 1% lead content?

Let me say this one more time so as there is no confusion. Huhhh? Now imagine me sitting here, stupid look on my face (easy), I am turning my head sideways in confusion, left side of my upper lip curled up somewhat, nose crinkled up, saying to myself, huhhhhh? I don't get it? I am sure it has something to do with the goose! Huhhhhhh, again?

California has always been a confusing place to me?

Nope not hitting the corn, but did have an espresso to go with a few cups of coffee though so was wired for a bit.

Yes the right imperial legislators of LOFAN tried to enact a 100% ban of lead until it was proven to them that many monometals composition usable for bullet and shot manufacture include trace percentages of lead…hence the law was written to require less than 1% lead in LOFAN approved monometal bullets and shot. You forgot the less than 1%.
Legand:
Michael =
Jim =
LOFAN = Land of Fruits and Nuts (Popular alias during Gov. “Moonbeams” tenure)

quote:

Hey, I have SC news for you that I did not know until today! As I understand, the state passed a new law 3 months ago to the effect that any state teacher that wishes to carry a gun to school for his or her protection is now allowed to do so, on school property during school hours! How about that! Thank God I still live in a free state! No, all you yankees go back home please you can't come here. You already ruined your part of the country, stay there, we really don't want you here!

Allrightee, at least one state legislature doesn’t have their collective heads where the light don’t shine!

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I think I need to schedule a trip to argue with both Alf and Michael, as long as they are buying!

465H&H

Well you are welcome here on the compound anytime, but you are going to have to bring your Texas buddy to translate I guess too. Bring something to shoot, I supply the rest. And I am buying!

Michael

Michael and others..

I have some 577 bullets with a diameter of .5815" (bought 200 bullets of that run).
A later run of the same bullet is .5845". The first bullets I dont trust, bacause of their small diameter. Have a feeling of gascutting the bore and that the bullets are not engraved enough (and that is a fact when I look at collected fired bullets and compare with .585" diameter bullets).
I have contacted the bulletmaker (dont want to mention any names yet), telling what my problem is and that I want them to exchange the remainding 7 boxes (175 bullets) to the new lot of the correct diameter. So far they have not done that. What is your thoughts?? How much difference is acceptable between borediameter (here .585") and actual bullet diameter??
If you look at Woodleighs webpage you see under their 577 bullets that their SP is .585" diameter whereas their FMJ bullet is .584" WHY?
All other bullets are made at correct borediameter.. But .5815" is too far from .585" in my thinking..
Let me know your opinions, please.
Thanks

All the best
Ulrik

Alf

The Water Hole is Magnificent!!!!!!! Looks like a very South African sort of sit around to me! You bring up a wonderful subject "the ongoing argument of the best gun and bullet"! I think this subject has gone on between shooters from the dawn of black powder, and will continue long after all of us are gone! But none the less a wonderful subject for us to discuss! We all have our favorites don't we? I have mine for sure! And mine has changed over the years to boot! But these days I think mine will now remain the same for a long time to come! Are we wrong with our individual preferences? No, not for the most part. So if a chap likes a 416 for a particular mission and the other a 458? Neither really, both are right and wrong! .500 is better! HEH! Naahhhh! Just hacking! A great subject, one in which we have right here on the thread with bullets!

Now one can never ever have too many firearms! This is the difference between a "shooter" and a "hunter". Nothing wrong with either, but there are very few that happen to be both of these in my opinion. I have always been a shooter, I have been involved in many different aspects of shooting over the last 30+ years. I have not always been a hunter, and not really sure I am one now, I remain a shooter. I only started hunting seriously later in life and I was simply amazed at the incompetence of nearly all the hunters that I ran into in the field! None of which were familiar with their rifles, ammo, bullets, nothing. I was amazed by this revelation. Now naturally one can't lump everyone in a pile, but I could not imagine going to the field with so little knowledge about things. But this also goes back to some of my early days shooting when I found that people who carried a firearm every day to protect life and limb were not shooters either, in fact quite the opposite.

I once told a fellow not too long ago that I don't hunt for the sake of hunting! I hunt for the sake of shooting. I enjoy every aspect of the hunt, don't get me wrong. But do understand I am there to shoot! I am there to test myself, my rifle, my bullet, my cartridge, and my personal goals. Yes, it is a wonderful experience, but should I hunt with the same old rifle, same old cartridge, same old bullet I would be bored to tears and would stop hunting all together! It would hold no interest for me. I am a shooter, not a hunter. Now some hunters would think that an abomination to hunting? Maybe so, hell I don't know. But the entire hunt/shoot for me may start years in advance with a particular rifle, bullet or cartridge. It is about every aspect of the shooting, not just going to shoot another animal with the same old same! I love 458 Lott and 458 caliber. Used this a bunch on many many things! Even impala! But I grew tired of that combination, have some damn fine Winchesters all in 458 Lott, but what is the point of continuing with that? No man, have to spike my interest a bit. Wrong? Right? Somewhere in between? Don't matter, that's the way I am. Now I have plenty of new things to keep me interested in the sport, probably the rest of my days if I don't burn out. With this in mind, always looking for a new rifle, bullet, cartridge to intrigue me, and there can't be any limits I reckon!







This is where several of us gather each week to discuss these matters of great import!

Of course this is either before or after a meeting at the Water Hole!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
Michael and others..

I have some 577 bullets with a diameter of .5815" (bought 200 bullets of that run).
A later run of the same bullet is .5845". The first bullets I dont trust, bacause of their small diameter. Have a feeling of gascutting the bore and that the bullets are not engraved enough (and that is a fact when I look at collected fired bullets and compare with .585" diameter bullets).
I have contacted the bulletmaker (dont want to mention any names yet), telling what my problem is and that I want them to exchange the remainding 7 boxes (175 bullets) to the new lot of the correct diameter. So far they have not done that. What is your thoughts?? How much difference is acceptable between borediameter (here .585") and actual bullet diameter??
If you look at Woodleighs webpage you see under their 577 bullets that their SP is .585" diameter whereas their FMJ bullet is .584" WHY?
All other bullets are made at correct borediameter.. But .5815" is too far from .585" in my thinking..
Let me know your opinions, please.
Thanks

All the best
Ulrik

Ulrik

As for me I am in very much agreement with you, .5815 is an extreme difference in my opinion. You remember the issues I mentioned with my 470s and that was from .474 to .472-.4725. No engraving at all. Also our recent test of the 458 Super Penetrator that did not do so well, at .456. While the 416 Super Penetrator did well, but it was .415. You have a difference of .0035, that seems like a lot to me. I don't think these are going to serve you well. If by chance they happen to be halfway accurate on paper, I don't think I would trust them when they had to go to work and start penetrating. They cannot possibly be stable I don't think. Alf, RIP, Jim? Glen? Extreme? 465HH? No man, don't see how they could possibly work, and I know they could not be cheap either and 175 of them, yes I would ask for an exchange at the minimum. I am assuming they are solids of some sort?

Michael

Jim

LOFAN!!! OK OK--You know I don't get out much! And California has always confused me. But there are lot's of things that confuse me these days.

M

Extreme

Nahh, probably not at SHOT again this year, you know I don't get out much these days! Love the SHOT however and think it's about the finest show there is, much more of interest for me at shot than nearly all others combined. SHOT and the NRA show my favorites in that order. SCI--- Pompous bunch of, well, never mind. Just had to throw that in you know! If I was going to venture out from the compound for a show, it would be the SHOT show hands down. I attended a few times and it's fantastic. I am sure JD will be there however.

Michael

Michael, I find this bit you wrote very interesting:

quote:

I have an immense interest in solid bullets because of my new attitudes towards their use. These days I also changed my attitudes to consider a good FN solid the best there is. There seems to be many of them now. A few years ago only the smaller custom makers had FN solids, now it seems every single larger manufacturer has made the move to a FN solid of some type. I wonder why that is? If made of proper materials, if quality control is good, sized correctly and such, then they just plain work extremely well in the penetration department, that is why. But that is not all! Not by far! The first time I used a FN solid on buffalo I could see a tremendous difference in reaction of that animal as opposed to all I had shot with a RN solid! The FN solids just hit harder, do more damage, transfer more trauma, just that simple! This reaction is very evident and not a fluke with one or two animals, even thin skinned species take notice! So now we have deeper penetration on average, and the FN hits harder up front to boot. Not much of a downside as I see it.

How would you like to have the best of two worlds combined in one bullet?
That is now referring to an expanding bullet - causing larger wound channel - and after hard work through the target continue to penetrate in a straight line as a FN.
See picture of such a bullet.



Can save you a lot of shooting.

On the other hand, you're a self admitted shooter and will never go for the economy of two-in-one for the price of one, would you?

Just by way of showing the other side of the moon is not as dark as it is usually thought to be, Michael.

Jagter

Yes my man, I am familiar with the HVs, but of course have never had any in hand. I have no problem with them at all and support the concept. However, you are very correct, one cannot possibly have just one bullet that does everything, man must continue to search that out and see if there is better! What fun would I have with a complete stockpile of ONE TYPE OF BULLET? That would just be far too easy and simple! Less shooting would be required (no fun in that), all test shooting would come to an end (god forbid), no more terminal tests, less rifles required to complete most missions (oh no). No NO NO, I won't have it, while an HV may be excellent, it cannot be a 1 bullet world, there is too many other things that would be effected in the trickle down process! Now hush your mouth and speak of this no more!


The other side of the moon would indeed be dark in a "1 Bullet World" Now we can't have that!

Thanks for bringing that to the attention of us! A very good point indeed. I have to renew my look at the HV's but as I recall they are what we have been calling our NonCon BULLETS. Non Conventional! And of course of late I have become an extreme fan of NonCons and these are the bullets I am waiting on delivery in a few days. Petals shear, remaining slug continues to penetrate, extreme trauma transferred to target and so on. Yeah, that's me! HV's I think qualify for just that! But still I think total penetration is less than any well made solid? HV's have petals right, not a solid expanding slug? A NonCon paired up with a good solid, an unbeatable combination!

Michael

You did a fine job of getting the voloscitys and showing the rounds after they have been used. every thing came out great.

quote:

A NonCon paired up with a good solid, an unbeatable combination!

Michael

Yes, that is how I like my 416Rigby loaded, and I'm thinking something similar for my light gun, 338WM.

Over on another thread discussing 338s the question of NonCons at high velocity came up.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/6041011321/p/1
the thread is readable while sipping a nice red wine, only three pages.

So if you test the 225 TTSX in your RUM, you can get some more shooting in by testing against the 160 TTSX and 185 TTSX.

Just how far, relatively speaking, will those light 338 presumably-sheared-cylinders penetrate? The sheared meplat is a tad larger than a FN, too. But some energy goes into shearing the petals.

People hunting hartebeests and impala would like to have a reference point for deciding. Barnes is similar to GSC's HV's, though GSCustom gets more velocity. Don't know how to get my hands on them easily, though, so I will probably go with Barnes this year. I'm just not sure what to load up, I can't test where I'm situated, and airlines and other redtape mean that I've pretty much got to limit things to 100 rounds total. Maybe you'll need a shot of Laphroaig after thinking about poor souls with 'only 100 rounds/year'. (Uh--make that 200 when considering two rifles.)

quote:

No NO NO, I won't have it, while an HV may be excellent, it cannot be a 1 bullet world, there is too many other things that would be effected in the trickle down process! Now hush your mouth and speak of this no more!

You see Michael, that's what we have to live with in SA! Our Firearms Control Act allows us to have only 200 rounds of ammunition per licensed rifle in your possession at any point in time. You may shoot it out in one day and buy/load another 200 rounds, but that's it - 200 the max. Only 2400 primers at any point in time, limited quantity of propellant and only 3 hunting rifles and 1 handgun if your not registered as a dedicated hunter.

Now against that background the 1 bullet scenario is a MUST for us
So we cope with all these limitations and still enjoy our hunting ever so much.

Enjoy your endless number of guns and shoot them whenever you can

Jagter

Oh yes, I am very well aware of what you have there in the good old RSA! It is very unfortunate. My wife and I were looking at buying a house above Pretoria, and when the new laws come into effect in 2005, that was it for me. I said no no! I could no longer bring a handgun in unless it was for hunting, and I had to promise the powers that be that I would not use the hunting handgun for self defense! You know this well of course, but it had me turning my head sideways and saying, huhhhhhh? Once again! Like in California, I was once more easily confused when "Self-Defense" had now become illegal? So that was the end our our house hunting and plans for nice 2-3 month stays in RSA. My wife still owns some property there, but we no longer have plans to utilize it that much.

Yes, your 1 Bullet World works for you for sure, from a MUST standpoint.

South Carolina is a great place for lot's of South Africans! We have many good friends that are South African that live close by! Of course all are firearms fanatics, in fact one good friend has all sorts of Full Auto gear, 50 BMGs and lot's of that sort of thing! The very things one could not have in the RSA I think!

Michael

Michael458...I'm on my way! I'll bring the water, if you have the watering hole! I'll bring some bullets, cartridges and rifles (maybe just a few you don't have, but my collection pales in comparison to yours) if you have the shooting box and range! I'll even bring a South African with me! Just say when! Beautiful shop by the way...how does your wife ever convince you to leave? Now I know why you don't get out much!

I can say I am also a shooter, so bravo to your speach; I applaud you. I cannot have just the one bullet, but it does work for some. I am lucky enough to have at least three different bullets for my .375 (small bore), .458's and big 50! I can tell you this much, those FN's (500, 540, 570 gr.) running 4,000fps from a BMG sure make one hellofa impact! Might just be able to get that on video! And I cannot wait to test their 790 grain .510 HV!...now just to figure out what I can hunt with that!

P.S. I would go just to see your lever collection.

jro45

Thank you! Do my best or close anyway!


416Tanzan

I will read the thread have not yet. I am not a velocity hound, I like to tailor the velocity to the bullet and the mission at hand if possible. However right now as for all NONCON bullets, velocity is a key factor in performance and penetration in particular. The one good thing I do like about the brass NonCons over copper, is the fact that the petals do shear off consistently (not entirely sure that matters) and the fact the brass shears at much lower velocity and less dependent upon velocity to get that effect. With the copper, to get the shear you have to have enough velocity as they tend to hang on longer.

OK OK, I just put an order in to Midway for 160--185--210--and 225 gr Barnes TSX-MRTX and so on and so forth, a couple of the blue tippy bullets and a couple of the normal TSX. I will test them for you and report right here! Damn, if they can call 375 a big bore, I might as well say 338 is too (OF COURSE IT"S NOT). Now decide this, I can test in the RUM and get the high velocity. However I can also test in normal 338 Win--338 WSM--338/06 also! What 338 do you have? I assume it's a 338 RUM? OH Wait a minute, I see that you say 338WM--Winchester Mag? If so I can test in that for you?

Reference to the mix for hartebeasts and impala? If so, 10 inches is about minimum or normal for those sort of things. These Barnes bullets are going to do that easy, and probably exceed that a good bit. A good reference for buffalo is 20 inches of penetration is what a 500 gr .458 caliber Woodleigh Soft point does at 2150-2200 fps in the mix, and the same size Swift A at 22-24 inches. Most normal every day 30 cal elk bullets penetrate about 14-17 inches, Swift A's. My terminal ballistic sheet on 338 caliber is very lacking, and one of my favorite calibers to boot! I have tested several 338s long ago, but never kept good records of things, either worked or it didn't. But I have had 338 on schedule for a long time, I just kept letting other things go to the front of the line ahead.

Should have bullets mid week, I will go to work on it for you!

It is something we can get done pretty quick once bullets are in hand. With penetration from 14-20 inches or so, a box of mix goes a long way! Doing solids with 50-60 inches of penetration, box don't last long, just a few shots. Then you have to redo it! Get a lot of shooting done with 20 inches of penetration! If very careful can get 4 rounds in stack before having to dump it, 3 rounds easy.

Michael

Extreme

Well boy, get in the truck and come on! Bring whatever you think you need that I don't already have and we will go to it! But I have a decent stock of items to play with so travel light if you need to.

Go ahead and bring a South African, if he can't speak anything but Afrikaans my wife will translate. As for her convincing me to leave, well she's worse than I am, she don't want to go anywhere either! About all we do is go out to eat from time to time at a few favorite places. Hell everything else is here, no need to go anywhere! I will leave the big .510 to you boys, more rifle than I can tote!

Well I have real lever guns, traditional style you know! Not some BLR thingy Yeah, got your PM but have not got to it yet! Had to throw that one at you! 50 Alaskans, 50 B&M Alaskans, 45/70s, a few 30/30s (real Hillbilly guns) I think a 32/40 from 1902? I think? Marlins and Winchesters, Been making some of my 1886s into real 18 inch Guide Guns with barrel band front sights, same with all my 71s too in 50 B&M AK. Real hammers with a 500 Hornady at 2000 fps! Damn fine close ranger bear rifle! Lion too I figure! Going have to do that one day!

Michael

OK guys, have the 458 Lott loaded up with 550 gr Woodleighs, 500 gr Nosler Solids, 500 gr Nosler Partitions, 500 gr Rhinos. Ready to test. I have lot's of 550 Woodleigh Softs, so I retested for velocity since I had not shot those in a few years. I came to 2135 fps with the old load I had listed, I am going up .2 of a gr to hopefully touch 2150 fps with the FMJ version. This at request from 465HH. I think the other loads will be doing around that, for the 550s I will use my tried and true, carried many 100s of miles in the bush, buffalo smashing, elephant stomping Winchester M70 with 24 full inches of barrel. For all the others a virgin to the bush, but well shot 22 inch version Winchester M70.

Then I will take us to (small bore) for some 338 tests, probably right after the above tests are done.

Then I think I must get on some tests with 45/70 and some of the new bullets I have not worked with in that cartridge.

Currently that is the order in which I will attack next week, starting I hope Monday.

Now I am very pleased to take requests. I am glad to help out where I can. I learn too. But I draw the line at calibers below 338. I also don't do 375! 338-358-366-416-458-500-510 Those are my preferred calibers. From time to time I have played out of boredom with 25 and 6.5 for giggles. But no 270s-7mms-30s-375s, sorry don't ask. Want to use that trash then you are on your own!


Michael

quote:

But no 270s-7mms-30s-375s, sorry don't ask. Want to use that trash then you are on your own! thumbdown

I notice you left out my vastly superior 8mm.

quote:

notice you left out my vastly superior 8mm.

8mm? What is that?

Heh! Nahh, man, it's just I didn't think about it. I think 8mm is Neither Fish Nor Fowl, as I quote from the great 465HH concerning the 416. Ain't small enough to be little, ain't big enough to be big, forgotten as a medium, so I don't know where you put one of those. Tell you what, I put it in a class above 30! How about that? I don't have anything that shoots that size anyway!

I did support a fellows choice of a 325 WSm recently however! For what he wanted to do with it, it was fine for that. Of course in my mind a 338-358 would have been better, but that's a moot point. Not against .323, just don't have such.

Hey Boys! I am leaving the compound this evening! Gonna be out after dark it appears too. My kids love to go to one of the Japonese (heh check spelling, funny) places and it's the big ones birthday and that's where he wants to go. I don't complain too much about it because I love Sake! Don't know why, but I love it! Goes down warm and smooth, tasty to me, and I can drink an entire liter of the stuff! In fact, I do drink an entire liter by myself! Won't let anyone else have any, make them get their own! Then on occasion I get an extra one of the medium size containers just to make the end of the evening. Good stuff I say! So there you have it, it's Sake Night!

Michael

Looks like that 16yr old is the designated driver for Sake Night!

Thank you, Michael, for giving attention to the 338.

I agree with you that it's not a big bore, it's 'medium' and 'light', but a great antelope gun.
Mine happens to be 338 Win Mag, which is fairly common and available in lesser-priced models of rifles (under $1200). I've used it happily from duiker to roan (even a buffalo, but don't tell anyone!). Had a Win M70, then a ruger 77, now a tikka t-3. Maybe someday I'll get a RUM or Lapua, but the 338 WM gets the hunting job done in most African situations. and it makes a nice pair with the 416 rigby (which some also call a 'medium', but for me it's a dangerous game round with some distance capabilities).

On penetration, it is important in these light rifles to know if a bullet is capable of penetrating from all angles. its the back quartering or rearend shot that the light ones may fall short on. that's why one should test.

On velocities, I suppose something around
3300 would be good for the 160 TTSx,
3100 for the 185 TTSX
2900 for the 210 TTSx
2800 for the 225 TTSX
2700 for the 250 MRX

the study by Rathcombe on 'Holes in wounding theories', that I think you've seen, suggested that 2700 fps was an approximate threshhold for shearing petals. But that was several years ago, and it wouldn't surprise me that that will be different today. Barnes may have been tinkering with these things behind the scenes.
I'm not even sure whether shearing the petals is good or bad. But the place to start is to know where the current thresholds are, and then to know how much a bullet will relatively penetrate at different velocities, with or without the petals.

Incidently, I called Barnes and they have a 265 grain TTSX this year with a 630 bc. That will be good news for the over-500 yard club, and it will be a great long long range bullet, but in Africa the bullet may be too long for my 10" twist to shoot through some grass.

Michael,

If you run low on tests to run how about this: your .500 caliber; the JDJ’ 455gr FN at 2200fps and the SST’ 470gr HP and 510gr FN both at 1800fps.

Michael,

I see we have one more thing in common, a love for sake!

465H&H