Michael,

Yes David has some interesting designs both targeted to close work and those for 1000yd+ ranges. Makes one wonder what design he’d come up with when given a specification for a banded-bore-rider style bullet, HP nose design, a ballistic coefficient of 0.280-0.320 and a design velocity range of say 1400fps-2800fps and given the two photographs with the comment of “perhaps a hybrid of these two bullet design”. I imagine after he finished that he’d say its nutty idea…that it won’t work…that it’s not going to happen! But then again he just might say, “hum…a bit here a bit there and yes it’ll work”.

Who know, perhaps all that is needed is a polymer tip to move the PBR out another 100yds or so.

Yes it does appear that JD pulled one over on you. It appears the two JDJ bullets perform exactly as they as designed; I’m sure he hadn’t figured into the design to require a buff to immediately on impact to hump-up with knees quivering and just roll over t.ts-up, all without having moved a single step!

Here are some Walterhog pictures...



Recovered from a zebra shot by Nelson this year:


Recovered from a buffalo I shot this year:


Saeed recovered one this year that still had its petals intact and nicely mushroomed....not sure of the details on it. All the ones I saw recovered this year (a half dozen or so) had lost their petals.

From what I could see, they penetrate very well, but not a huge amount more than a Barnes X or the like. They do seem to cause a comparable amount of tissue damage as well, and I didn't see a lot of evidence of tumbling (or veering off course). They definitely do the job anyway.

Cheers
Canuck

quote:

High speed photography of a varied assortment of currently available monometal HP's and expanders have shown that all, without exception turn in target after the shedding of the petals and in most the actual expansion and shedding of the forepart happens almost directly after impact.

I seem to recollect reading this to be true of Barnes early work with their X bullets before modifying their process for the current TSX and TTSX bullets. Also have heard this is a major issue with brass HP monometals. I’ve also heard that many of the current crop of copper HP monometals do turn/tumble after shedding their petals but almost always stabilize base-front where they continue to penetrate the animal.

From the AR search I conducted last night it appears that Saeed’s Walterhog bullets shed their petals shortly after impact with much resulting damage to the internal organs of buffalo and large African plains game yet in all cases the remaining shank of the bullet continued to penetrate through the animal further causing damage, beyond the shrapnel area of petal lose, including the full penetration through offside bones. Animal dead, quite a few DRT, some that have run perhaps 20m but none 100m.

It appears that the Walterhogs are designed to shed their petals after full expansion at high velocity impact with the shank further penetrating as if it were a FN solid or to expand with petals retained at lower velocity impact…the same as the SST HP bullets and the S&H Velohex bullets.

Canuck thanks for the photos...much the same results that I found with Saeed's photographs.

Bottom line...I personally see nothing wrong with the design intent or these results…

Jim

David is one of those long range target shooter, and pretty good at it as I understand. JD has helped him alot with his designs and David now of course shoots his own bullets at the matches. Of course these sort of bullets are out of my area, so I can't say much about them. What I can say is all the bullets I shoot of Davids are the most accurate bullets I have, regardless of caliber, which is mostly the .500s. Fantastic. Of course the BCs of my bullets are pretty low

Speaking of polymer tip, just spoke with Brian about some of this stuff and David and JD are working on some of the Whisper bullets, sub sonic, and using a polymer tip to induce expansion at sub sonic velocities with some of the Whisper bullets, with some good success. Deer control people need these badly.

JD does that sometimes, lets me learn the hard way!

Well I will be doing some more of that tinkering soon. Have some samples of bullets being sent next week in 416-458-500 caliber to play with. Not sure of everything I will get, but will report when received.

Canuck

Looks like the Walterhogs would qualify NONCON to me. Thanks for finding those photos for us!

Jim


X 2 Big Time on the bottom line. Once the petals shed penetration is increased each and every time. Tumble or not, really does not matter I think. If the petals stay on, then it turns into a conventional bullet again, which is ok too! But when those petals explode, dump and transfer trauma, and the remaining slug continues to penetrate a good bit further than what it would retaining the petals, then you are destroying more tissue that you would not touch, if the petals retain. This is not only true in the test medium, but is true on all of the buffalo that I have shot with them. Not many of these were recovered, only two. The rest all exited. Tumble or not, don't much matter I reckon, I did not ask any of the buffalo, but none of them complained to me.

Michael

quote:

Tumble or not, don't much matter I reckon, I did not ask any of the buffalo, but none of them complained to me.

I imagine Saeed has the same comment regarding his Walterhogs.

Rip,

Have you, or do you know anyone, who has used the S&H Velohex bullets on large game yet? Is so, what were the results?

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Rip,
Have you, or do you know anyone, who has used the S&H Velohex bullets on large game yet? Is so, what were the results?

Jim,
Max shot an elk with one, broadside, exited offside.
I shot a running deer with one, a quartering body shot.
Both animals went right down.
One shot kills.
I can vouch for small entrance wound and only slightly larger exit wound,
and I did not find the petals in all the blood and guts of a quick field dressing.
I will make it a mission to shoot big bovines next.
A .395/310-grain SHARCC Velohex at 2800 fps MV is indeed a NONCON for a DGR:
Brass hollowpoint 6-rayed death star
SD < .3
Hyper velocity

We inmates are running my insane asylum.

Thanks Rip, sounds like they functioned just as designed.

Looks like we're getting a good listing of proven DG and non-DG NONCONs.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Rip,
Have you, or do you know anyone, who has used the S&H Velohex bullets on large game yet? Is so, what were the results?

Jim,
Max shot an elk with one, broadside, exited offside.
I shot a running deer with one, a quartering body shot.
Both animals went right down.
One shot kills.
I can vouch for small entrance wound and only slightly larger exit wound,
and I did not find the petals in all the blood and guts of a quick field dressing.
I will make it a mission to shoot big bovines next.
A .395/310-grain SHARCC Velohex at 2800 fps MV is indeed a NONCON for a DGR:
Brass hollowpoint 6-rayed death star
SD < .3
Hyper velocity

We inmates are running my insane asylum.

IIRC - Max's Elk shot was 225 yards quartering away, uphill (angle unknown but seeem to recall steep), altitude 8000 ASL, temp 15 F, wind crossing at 20mph. His description of the internals was something like "liquified". No projo parts recovered as the conditions didn't allow sifting.

Macifej,

Do I understand correctly that the two S&H bullet styles are SHARCC FN (a monometal solid) and SHARCC VELOHEX (a monometal hollow point)?

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Macifej,

Do I understand correctly that the two S&H bullet styles are SHARCC FN (a monometal solid) and SHARCC VELOHEX (a monometal hollow point)?

Yes - although there are a couple others we do including a long range "plinking" bullet (SHARRC Mil-Tac). They are not production pieces for public consumption.

Here's the .395/310-grain S&H NONCON.
You can see the hexagonal hollowpoint of the "Velohex" if this photo from the S&H website shows up:

Yes it does...along with the nice whitetail doe used as the cartridge rest.

Yep,
Last year.
That was Bambi's mother.
I killed Bambi's father the week end before.
Then I went back in late muzzleloader season and killed orphaned Bambi.
Culling the herd to prevent motor vehicle accidents on the roads.
Works better if you take them out as family units.
I ate papa deer first, as sausage and jerky.
I am still working on the choicer cuts of mama deer an Bambi.
Yummy.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Yep,
Last year.
That was Bambi's mother.
I killed Bambi's father the week end before.
Then I went back in late muzzleloader season and killed orphaned Bambi.
Culling the herd to prevent motor vehicle accidents on the roads.
Works better if you take them out as family units.
I ate papa deer first, as sausage and jerky.
I am still working on the choicer cuts of mama deer an Bambi.
Yummy.

Deer season on the roads should be year round
Gotta keep those deer off the car grills and on the BBQ grills

Give new meaning to drive by shooting

Fair chase via automobile

Keep up the good work RIP.

I have a couple of new things to report from this past week that might be of some interest.

Always a Hornady bullet fan--Interlocks--I wanted to try some downloaded 400 gr Hornady Interlocks in my 416 B&M. Have not been completely satisfied with the 416 and 458 caliber Interbonds nor the DGXs, just go back to the good old standard Interlock at a nice reduced velocity for general purpose shooting. Not bad performance at all.



Had some left over mix to chew up so I re-tested some of the 416 bullets below.



Michael

I like versatility, especially with my larger bore rifles. One can take a big bore and do anything with it, from deer/impala to the largest missions on the planet! All one has to do is choose the proper bullet for the mission at hand! Once again, I am a big Hornady fan for everyday shooting and non premium bullets. I have been shooting a lot of the little 300 gr .500 caliber Hornady Flex tips in the various .500 caliber rifles, they are excellent and test very good even at some higher velocity than what they are designed to do. So naturally I was very interested in the 325 gr 458 caliber Flex Tips and where they might operate at. So I tested 3 different velocities with the results shown below. Any of the velocities shown would do fine for deer/impala sized critters, even the higher velocity. In my 458 B&M I would most likely go with the mid range velocity of 2300 fps giving lot's of trauma transfer, and more than adequate penetration for the animals that you would use this bullet on. Of course this bullet would be excellent in most 45/70s running from 2000 to 2200 fps depending on rifle and barrel length. Accuracy is very excellent with nearly any load you can come up with in 458 B&M.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by eezridr:
Why dont we get Speer to re introduce their grand slam solid with their tungsten carbide insert with a nice frontal meplat about like the Barnes and bands like a north fork so you might shoot them out of a double rifle.
Some of you fellows with deep pockets and time on your hands should make this a reality.


Speer hasn't made them for several years and won't make them again since Federal bought Speer and discontinued them in favor of the overpriced Sledgehammer, but someone is. Contact Larry at Superior Ammo in Sturgis for their names. The .375 bullets are five bucks apiece. Don't know what calibers they are being produced in besides .375.

After my experience with the Hornady DGS on elephant, I'm not sure the Speer is needed. Besides the Hornady is a lot, lot cheeper.

465H&H

465HH

Welcome back 465. There are a lot of really good bullets out there that will do the job for sure. I too can't see the need for the very expensive tungsten core bullets, and probably a lot of other folks agree too. The last time we checked on trying to do some tungsten core they were going to be around the $10 each, not really worth it, when taking into account all the good solids available these days.

A very excellent report by the way, I have taken the liberty of including a link below, I hope you don't mind?

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/6441059021

465 HH gives us a good field test of the Hornady DGS in 458 and the North Fork solids in 465 caliber. Please go have a look some great work and good insight there.

I hope to get to some test work this week. Buffalo was good enough to have sent some 416 caliber GS solids which I have received all the way from Denmark, thanks! I have a couple of challenges on those, higher velocity, lower velocity. In 416 the low velocity I would shoot for, around 2150 fps or so is easy with the 416 B&M, but I will have to work a load up in the 416 Rigby which I have not done yet, I think something along the lines of a mild 2500 fps or so should suffice for the higher end.

I also await some of the new Woodleighs from Con. I have two boxes of North Forks, one 416 caliber, one 458 caliber that should be on the way, ordered last week. Not sure how good North Fork is about getting orders out.

In addition to that two NONCON designs I requested, 350 gr .500 caliber brass HP and the 330 gr brass 416 caliber. I have loads already, in the 50 B&M the 350 HP at 2500 fps and in the 50 Super Short 2175 fps. In the 416 B&M the 330 HP at 2540 fps.

I also should receive our inserts today, the Witness Cards. I do not want to test without these. So until they arrive I am on hold. They have been shipped, should arrive today.

Michael

Hi Alf,

Please see this post. It is off topic for this thread, I think, hence my posting there.

Gerard

I don't think that anything dealing with bullets and terminal performance is off topic here. In fact I would think there is much you could contribute here. This is not a solid only discussion, in fact the solids is or should have been only a portion of what this thread is about. If it's a bullet and we are speaking about Terminal Performance, then it is not off topic at all. Your GSC HV bullets are very much a part of this topic as would be your solids also, and your input would be appreciated.

Michael

michael458,

Thanks for the welcome back. One thing I didn't mention is that since these bullets were tested at 2,150 fps, my results only pertain to that speed. It will be interesting to see how they hold up and penetrate at the higher velocities capable in the Lott, Dakota etc.

465H&H

465HH

Glad to have you back, and glad to add your expertise to this thread. I appreciate you joining in. As I recall the Hornady was the 500 gr version correct? Meplat size I would assume is very much the same as the 480 versions that I picked up some time ago, and hard as hell to measure, I would get anything from .260-.280 or so. While the small meplat does not test well in the lab, obviously this bullet does well in the field. At least well enough to accomplish the mission and then some, and the price is reasonable. I would think that it should be welcomed in that manner for bolt guns that will not feed the larger meplats on some of our current solids. I would think that it would also be a good bullet for the double guns, but I have zero experience and claim none in that arena. Good work! I am sure Hornady had the feeding issue in mind when designing the nose profile.

As for the North Forks, it might be the photos, not sure, but did the nose upset or did the bullets bend, I really can't tell. But like I said it might have been the photos, I have some like that, bullet looks bent or deformed, but it is the bullet on the white background and only looks that way in some photos.

Thanks for your input!

Michael

The NF's really didn't bend but the nose was pushed back a small amount on one side on both bullets. It didn't seem to affect their performance as they were found nose on with no sign of any veering off course.

465H&H

465HH
OK, I could not tell for sure about the North Forks. I ordered some last week, 416 version and a 458 versions. Have not arrived as of yet.

Thanks.
Michael

Witness Cards in hand and looking very good. My wife picked up some card stock to laminate and it appears that this is going to be perfect for our use. It is stiff enough to work with, place against the side of the box so that all cards are even throughout the box. Currently I plan to place a card every 3 inches for all expanding or NONCON bullets, and every 6 inches for RN Solids, and every 12 inches for FN Solids. This may change, but if so it will be noted of course. We have to start somewhere, so this is what I have decided will work to get things moving forward. I think that this will really give us a good "photo" of what is happening along the way, and a permanent record of it to boot! Thanks To RIP--credit where credit is due!

I am working on a box now, it should be ready to shoot and get started sometime tomorrow I suppose!


Michael

I had a very enlightening day today! I must report that the "witness cards" are a great success! Even better than I could imagine, as you will see below.

Today I did a test on basically two brass NONCON bullets (non conventional). Results were awesome to say the least. The first one was a 350 gr SSK Brass HP .500 caliber. In the 50 B&M Super Short impact velocity was 2190 fps and in the 50 B&M impact velocity was 2472 fps. The other bullet is the 330 gr SSK brass HP in .416 caliber, impact velocity of 2546 fps.

A new wet print mix was made and cards were inserted every 4 inches. I know I said 3 inches, but looking at it once set up I decided to go with 4 inches.
As you see from the photos the cards are standing up. They are excellent to work with, after this photo they were inserted all the way down, and against the side of the box so that each card was placed in the box exactly the same.


Chronograph was set up, and I made some laminated cards with targets to get things off correctly!


Results were amazing as you will see below. Basically the 50 B&M Super Short with an impact of 2190 fps the petals started shearing at 2-3 inches penetration, and the petals themselves continued to penetrate up to 7 inches. The remaining slug that weighs 232 grs continued to penetrate to 18 inches total. The 50 B&M with an impact of 2472 fps with the same 350 SSK Brass HP did exactly the same and performed exactly the same as the bullet impacting at 2190 fps, there was more destruction of tissue up front and total penetration increased to 20 inches. Petals continued outward, away from center of impact to about 5 inches. Like a death star. I was amazed at the amount of penetration the petals gave, 5 inches after shearing!! Also with both .500 caliber 350s the remaining slug penetrated dead straight and did NOT tumble.


Now I have several cards to show as penetration proceeds. This is with the 50 B&M and the 350 Brass HP from start to finish.

This is as I pulled away the mix at 4 inches.



The Cards






This card at 4 inches again just to illustrate the "Death Star" effect! Amazing!



Michael

I decided a separate post for the 416 B&M.

416 B&M 330 gr SSK Brass HP impact velocity 2546 fps. The petals sheared off just behind the witness card at 5 inches. Penetration of the petals went up to 9 inches total. The remaining slug weighing 250 grs continued to penetrate to 21 inches total. Dead straight line penetration to 18 inches where it started to loose momentum, veered slightly to the left and tumbled to 21 inches where it was found base forward!

Massive energy/trauma transfer to the mix between 2 inches and 12 inches as you will see from the cards below.






Michael

It took me a long time to figure it out, and mostly by accident, but in my opinion these type of bullets--these NONCONs are incredible. I have seen the energy transfer up close and personal on buffalo with these sort of projectiles, it is unbelievable.

Conclusions! I intend to order 500 of the 350 .500 caliber bullets, and 500 of the 330 gr 416 caliber bullets just as damn quick as I can make the phone call! I will be looking at a 470gr-500 gr Brass version for my 500 MDM in .500 caliber too. Then I am looking for something along the lines of a 430-450 gr 458 caliber version, and also a 300-350 gr .458 caliber!

I think that pretty well states where I stand on these! Guess I will just target practice with all the Woodleighs, Swifts, Hornadys and all the 1000s of other "Common" bullets I have on the shelves, really can't think of much of a use for them anymore!

Michael

Michael,
Great!
Thanks for doing the tough jobs others merely speculate about.
I need to find a puter that is not blocked from showing pictures ... later ...

Quite impressive!
That would be awesome on a lung shot or a lot of shots quite frankly.
It would be interesting to know the SD of the left over solid and compare penetration of other solids of equal SD.

Maybe a breaking point ring or canalure cut at the outside of the bullet at the same depth as the hole will aid in the shearing at lower velocities like on the .500 one does. I am sure you saw the petals sheer off at the top canalure of the .500. So for the 416 version or other diameters that might help since you want those petals to come of cleanly as to aid straight penetration.
Just some musings.
Thanks for such an awesome post!!!

RIP

If you didn't have all that porn on your computer maybe it would let you see bullet porn???? Just a thought!


Boomy

I think tomorrow I am going to slow the 416 version down a bit just to see what happens??? I also want to retest the 500 MDM and the 470 Coppers with the insert cards to get a better handle on what is going on there with copper versions.

Brass versions, I think will shear at very low velocity, that is why I believe, not sure, but think that a lighter 458 caliber bullet, 300-325 grs would be a hammer for a 45/70?

Now remember, both of these produce enough total penetration for nasty things! I would not hesitate to go after buffalo with the 416 bullet, at 330 grs. With a total penetration of 21 inches, that is 1 inch more than a 500 gr Woodleigh soft at 2250 fps from a 458 Lott! Going on just memory right now, but it is deeper penetration than 416 350 Swift or 350 Barnes from the 416 B&M and I have shot buffalo with the 350 Swifts! So the penetration is there after the petals shear! It would be tremendous on thinner skinned species.

Want a miracle bullet? Here they are!

RIP, the witness cards are fantastic, I think we have made a very huge step forward in these tests, thank you! I am extremely excited about what we have discovered today!

Michael

Michael,
I am blocked from all types of porn on the hospital puter.
Stuck with iPhone for now and that sucks hind teat when it comes to viewing and responding.
Will get to home puter tomorrow.
Keep making bullet porn.
DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

.

Alfy Boy!

Well Well Alfy, I think I have your answers my Boy! Firstly drop ft pounds of anything off the list, meaningless, useless, number that has zero bearing on anything, nothing. Ft pounds I am throwing out the door, as this is a Bullet discussion, bullets do the work, not ft pounds.

Now that you mention it, 500 Woodleigh Soft--500 Barnes RN Solid--500 Barnes Banded Solid--and the "NON Conventional" HPs that I termed, the "Miracle Bullet", I have in fact shot buffalo with all of the listed above bullets. I have not shot buffalo with Gerards GSC FN bullets, but they would be in the same class as the 500 Barnes Banded Solid. I have also shot buffalo with various other sorts of bullets too, for example 500 Swift A's .458 caliber at 2275 fps, .458 400 Swift As--45/70 420 Cast Performance--.500 caliber 426 HPs--500 caliber 450 Shredders--.500 caliber 485 FN solids--.500 caliber 485 FN Solids--500 caliber 510 gr Solids at various velocities--.500 caliber 470 HPs--458 450 Swifts--458 450 Barnes FN Solids, and probably a few others I don't recall at 5:30 am, but have a record of so no concerns.

Alf, you ask great questions! But as I have noticed, you never give out the answers? Still waiting on an answer from something I did not know, capoward and I both gave answers, to the question (so long now I forgot) but never got an answer as to who or what was correct?

Anyway, back to subject at hand.

Again, throw your paper ft pounds out the window, that is not the energy/trauma, maybe shock transfer I am talking about, in fact ft pounds never even enters my mind or my numbers. I am talking animal reactions when hit, how they react, what they are able to do after being hit. No, this can't be measured, no there are no rules to be made. Yes, one can draw some pretty conclusive evidence however from seeing this first hand.

For me shooting a magnificent animal such as a buffalo, elephant, lion, or something similar is a little like having great sex!

OK, let that sink in for a second, no remarks from the peanut gallery!

What I mean by that is this, You Never Forget It, it is a vivid image that is in your minds eye the rest of your life! One may go thru life and forget many things, but there are some things we remember as clearly as watching on Hi Def TV! Now obviously after many such episodes, sex in particular, there have been "so many" as to begin to forget the "less spectacular" ones lets say! However, there are ones that you never forget! Shooting a magnificent animal, even though there have been several, one tends to have little prompts to bring those images back into focus, photos, bullets, rifles, things like that, that will bring that memory to the front line again, vividly.

I remember these things, I remember how and what that animal did the millisecond it took the bullet. I could go into vivid detail if needed and explain exactly what happened with every hit. Now obviously I agree that one does not shoot one animal and be able to draw "definite" conclusions from that. You must shoot a few anyway!

Buffalo are about the finest subjects in which one can test bullets in my opinion, especially Big Bore bullets, big bore expanding bullets and big bore solid bullets. If big bore expanding bullets were not made for buffalo, then what? Of course they can be used on other lesser creatures, but the "nature" of a 500 gr 458 caliber Swift A Frame is for buffalo! The very essence of a 500 gr 458 caliber Woodleigh Soft, is for buffalo!

Suffice it to say, I see no valid reason to go into extreme detail about every single shot, I see them, I see the reaction, I can do so. However, such is not necessary. Buffalo have a basic reaction when hit with a good enough expanding bullet up front in the shoulder area, they kick up that leg and most of the time run in the direction the head is in! Typical hits from 458 caliber 500 gr Woodleighs and 500 Swift A produce that result. If hit a little further back they tend to buck up a little, and run the direction the head is pointed. They normally don't go far, 20-40 yds are so and pull up. If you are fortunate you may get to put a solid up from the rear, or raking rear if the subject stays within line of sight or not being covered by obstacles. When they pull up they most likely stop to turn around a bit to see what the hell is going on, then your opportunity is there for another shot, now with the solids. Most of the time at that point I have reloaded and if I have been lucky he is taking the 4th shot at that time, if he is still standing! God I love to work buffalo! Unless central nervous system is hit, they don't drop dead on the spot. Buffalo are tanks! You just don't shoot a tank with anything short of exploding it and expect to see big results. I promise you I have hit them with what I thought was the miracle rifle, cartridge, bullet only to be disappointed many times! A bullet that might knock lesser creatures off their feet might only inflict a fly bite on a buffalo!

Now the question, my question, yours is not quite on base. What bullet imparted the most transfer of trauma or shock to the animal to disable it the fastest and most efficient? That is the true question.

I can tell you without doubt that a Flat Nose solid of any sort hits a buffalo harder, showing more reaction than that of any round nose solid bullet I have ever shot these creatures with. A very noticeable reaction from the animals. I say this with 100% confidence, and know it to be true and factual! Been there, did that, seen it with my own eyes!

I can tell you that without doubt that of the bullets I have shot buffalo with this 470 gr Copper HP NONCON bullet in .500 caliber at 2400 fps at the muzzle hits buffalo harder than anything I have ever seen hit a buffalo that can be carried by a mere mortal being, such as myself! I can say that with 100% confidence, and know it to be true and factual! Been there, did that, seen it with my own eyes! I watched 13 buffalo drop in their tracks from the first hit with this bullet, only 1 of those got up from the first bullet!

In a recent email, this week, from Paul Truccolo, my guide and PH in Australia that has seen 1000s of buffalo shot in his career. In this email I will give you a quote from Paul;

"The 500 MDM is, to date, the most effective cartridge I have seen used on our buffalo"

Now Paul has seen far more than I ever will see in my life time. He has it only partially correct, it really is not the cartridge, it's the "BULLET" that I used in the cartridge.

I can only speak of the one caliber that I have done this with, but through proper test work and line of thought, I do believe that this concept will carry through to other calibers such as 416 and 458 caliber. What I can promise you is this, I will find out as that is exactly what I intend to do! I will be shooting buffalo with these bullets in the future, and I will let you know how it turns out! But you know what, to be real honest with you in this particular matter I already know what the outcome will be. I know it so well that I am willing to place the biggest bet of all on it! I will stand toe to toe with the giants and I will slay the beasts of the earth with these bullets, as I am quite sure that my bullets have been proven before hand and they Will Not Let Me Down!


Have to admit, that was funny!

Michael

RIP

I am quite sure as soon as you can view bullet porn you will be pleased with what should be called the RIP RB Witness Cards! However, I am sure your imagination can come up with a better name. I am excited about them, they without doubt give me more information than what I have had in the past.

Today I am determined to re-test my 470 gr Copper HPs from the 500 MDM to get a better idea of where, what, how. Of course, these are the bullets that blew 13 asiatic buffalo completely off their feet where they stood. I think I can get a better handle on where and how those petals shear off with the witness cards! Do come up with a better name for this!

WOW, I love this s*#t!

Michael

How bout 'Credit Card Test'. It gives a 'visible credit' to the bullet path.

Ok, fine, so I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning. . . . . . will keep thinking.

Kinda excited about seeing the results with this one.

Now, where's my coffe cup!

Michael,
Wow!
You been dere and done dat!
You blew Alf's shower off your parade.
But foot pounds total, and SD, initial and terminal, as well as bullet caliber and diabolical bullet construction ...
all of these have to be on the playing field.
Maybe none is supremely important, but all are at play.
Must not go anti-foot-pound, same as must not go anti-sectional-density ...
except for purposes.
Anything to make the thread last forever, eh?

"Witness card" or "watchcard" sounds cool to me.

If your 500 MDM with 470 grain NONCON at 2400 fps MV is like the Hammer of Thor on buffalo ...
Maybe the GSC .510/450-grain HV at 2800 fps MV will be too,
with the 500 Mbogo.

I will try that for a one-rifle safari, plains game afar and cape buffalo up close.
It has fair aerodynamics for long shots at varmints with sporting 50.
Of course I would also need a good solid for elephant, like a 540 to 570-grain brass or copper FN.

The GSC HV would be expected to loose all petals at 2600 fps impact, if there is enough SD driving that expansion.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"