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Happy 100!!!!  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Jim, Is this what you are asking about? This bullet has simple band not what you are calling seal tite. Sam | |||
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Sam, I just presumed that it was because it looked so similar to what CEB shows on their website as the Seal Tite Band:  And it just didn't look as clean as the two styles of bands that you put on the BBW bullets. But I will definately take your word for it!!!  Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Sam, I should have gone back and re-looked at the unfired bullets that Michael posted back on page 96; they clearly show that CEB has flattened the upper band on your 2-Band bullet:  I can see where CEB just modified your .509 caliber BBW 3-Band bullet shown on page 94:  to produce the upper band. I should have asked rather than presuming! Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Jim, No problem. CEB just modified my original band to make it easier to machine with their tooling. What they did seems to work fine. Sam | |||
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 Best thread on the forum to date. 100 pages and climbing! Congrat's Michael.    | |||
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Sam, That makes perfect sense...and yes it does seem to work just fine! Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Hey Dennis I'll that. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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100 Pages! Well, I did not do this alone of course! There have been many contributors in the last 11 months, thread is only 1 yr old in November! Thanks to all that have contributed from the very beginning analog__peninsula Alf Jetdriver 458 Only shootaway Capoward--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Extremist458 Rug Buffalo--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! jwp475--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! RIP--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! dean119 fourbore Whitworth--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Dwright--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Robgunbuilder CCMdoc fredj338 jeffeosso--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Canuck Macifej--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! aaccit Warrior BoomStick--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! 465HH--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Gerard--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! BwanaDave BikeRider--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Con PWS I Bin Therbefor someoldguy--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Jagter VVarrior 416Tanzan--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! leopardtrack sharpsguy--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! ar corey Phatman Andrew cempa Mike70560--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Andy hughman NE450No2 Nakihunter Mafunyane 31/2Makesmelaugh ovny Srose--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! And Double that! Hoot Murray Esskay dean119 Jack D Bold peterdk--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Rusty 500N Dave Bush--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! CowboyCS trophyhunter5000 Demonical aliveincc NFMike North Fork--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! m3taco david.bergen DRG Admin--Special Award for Contributions above and beyond! Changing our Big Bore Photo! Clem Austringer Coloradoyaler eezridr 8gauge CrossL Bob Nisbet Atkinson DoubleDon Guys, I went through from page 1, after a few pages I decided to go all the way through the thread on even numbers, up until the last 5 or so pages. The guys listed here are the ones to thank, and I appreciate all those who contributed so much of your time, energy, bullets to the cause, and knowledge. Please, remember, I did not see all pages, and I am sure I missed some of you, and for that I am sorry, but time allotted was limited to even pages. Some contributed to this effort far above and beyond the call of duty, thank you. I tried to think of something special for page 100, a milestone I suppose as it is, I can think of nothing better than my thanks to all those listed, and my apology if I missed you on an odd number page. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Special thanks to Michael458 for everything from starting the thread to hundreds if not thousands of tests he conducted. | |||
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Thanks,Michael! | |||
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The goal of every hunter should be to quickly and humanely dispatch their hunted game; this thread has accelerated this goal multifold already and we’re not finished yet!!! Michael… Kudos to you for almost one year’s worth of very hard work and for bringing this wealth of knowledge to all of us. Sam… Kudos to you for the multitude of bullet designs that you’ve developed for Michael’s testing these past number of months. And a personal thank you for helping develop the .500 caliber HP Spitzer for me. I look forward to the testing of the HP designs derived from the BBW #13 FN bullets; they should work extremely well. I’m also wondering if the BBW HB FN bullets, once further refined, will allow the “recoil sensitive” individual the ability to step up into the true big bore world…the .458 caliber and above…by shooting a lighter weight HB bullet that will provide the same penetration advantages of the full solid bullet but with less recoil. I guess only time will tell. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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i am honered, thank you michael and sam. now before you guy's are resting to much on the fame and glory, this HB bullet is still taking to much of my sleep. questions: with the same load, what will the vel difference be, as compared to a conventionel no-con. with the same load, will that impact the regulation as compared to the conventionel load ? with the same load, what will the pressure be for a HB bullet ? what will a BBW #13 560 grain 577 in copper going at 1800-1850 fps penetrate in michaels medium (hard to reproduce the same circumstanses, when i am sitting on the other side of the globe) i am a bit flustred here, as this might be the answer to black powder rifles, bringing them into the 21'st century, i have this idea of annealing the body of the bullet but keeping the tip hard, should produce some baaad bullets for the henry rifled community. this really is the best innovation in double rifle history in the last 50-70 years, if you guys can do what you do so well over there, i will run the bullets through some elderly rifles over here, and measure them as far as i have the oppertunity over here and report back asap. some of the bullet makers claim that their non-con's are safe in elderly double's and i do belive north fork because they seem to accept and encourage a fair bit of testing outside of their own labs, the others not so much. lets get to the bottom of this, before my head starts doing full turns and the peasoup will be the order of today again thanks for all your hard work best peter | |||
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Oh man, everyone is welcome, and I thank all you, as we have learned a lot together, and blah blah blah blah, and all that! OK, enough already, back to work, Burning damn daylight hard as we can. Yes, there is much left to do, I doubt we will ever be completed with nothing at all left to ponder! At least not me. There are discoveries to be made in our world, and no one else is doing anything about it, we might as well do it ourselves! I tell you know however, it's going to take me some time to catch back up with things. Sam and I must attend to getting these BBW #13s into production, if anyone is getting ready to go hunting soon and wants to try some out, do let us know, we will make a very special effort to get some coming your way. Sam is getting ready to go smash elephant here in just a couple more weeks or so with a big 750 BBW #13 in the 577 Nitro! Big hammer! Anyone else, hurry up, let us know. Getting the same bullets up and running both for the doubles and the bolt guns is going to take some doing. So a good bit of time is going to be spent there. Next step, get some hollow point Non Cons done, off the BBW #13 profile. Next Step--See if we can get some Hollow Base bullets done in a few different calibers to do some test work with, eh Peter? Peter, we have strain gages already hooked up to a 470 Nitro--it would be best to have some hollow base done on that, in the Copper BBW#13, how would that do to test some? Peter--a list of calibers, and end weights of those hollow bases if you can! We will see if we can eventually rid you of your headache! HEH. Oh, and don't forget, we have all sorts of things coming in, bullets in .474, factory loads, all to complete and add to the pressure tests on the 470 Nitro! In addition, I suppose I have been inspired to get back to doing some pressure tests that are long overdue on the B&Ms, so I hooked up strain gages today to 50 B&M, 500 MDM, and 458 B&M Super Short, and ordered 12 new strain gages, 2 new connecting wires and some other things to do some more work. So I have some work to do on that coming up the next couple of weeks. I also have to make a run very soon for test medium! Not far from being low on that, will get about a 1/2 ton I suppose will keep us a bit. Lot's left to do. Don't forget, I do requests too! If you have something that has been worrying you, or you have questions about, send it to me, we will get it done--Eventually!!!! M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Thanks Michael for everything you have done. Not much would have been known about solids and others if it wasn't for you. I know I would have still been in the dark. Thanks for putting up with all my crazy bullets and beinb willing to test them. I think a lot of good has and will come from it. You can take a rest and get caught up with your terminals. I have my lathe torn apart for rebuild so I won't be sending you new designs every couple of days. Also have to go out of town next week so you can get some relief. Sam | |||
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michael i think that the 470 could be nice in something like a HB at around 350-320 grains, that should give us something to wonder about if it does the same as the last one, i actually think it might do it at lower pressure, not sure why i think so, but here it is. the reason i would like to see a 577 BBW at 1800-1850 is that, it is BPE level of performance, but the rifles can be buildt at around 11 pounds now how is that for a portable cannon i will go and feed the horses and ponder over this thing with the HB for a bit peter | |||
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Peter, I have a couple of 577 BPE's I will try a 2 band in for you. They don't have Henry rifling in them but I'm interested to see how a copper 2 band might work for them. I do have a 500 with Henry rifling and there will be some 2 band BBW#13's going down the tubes soon. I will keep you posted. Sam | |||
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thanks sam i really am looking forward to see the performance level that the #13 could do at bpe speeds, i really think that this might be something that could be good. peter | |||
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Doc M, Thanks for the special awards to the Legion of MIB students. I feel like I just got a "gold star" or a gold bullet.  Remember I have your Terminal Ballistics PhD diploma and ceremonial black lab coat to bestow upon you whenever I make it to MIB, with my .458 B&M Elephant&Varmint Rifle. That is a new class of rifle. Not just a "DGR" anymore, it is also a "DVR," or a "DGVR": Dangerous Game Varmint Rifle Brass versus copper pressure effects: Consider that for same-weight bullet the longer bullet will have a higher peak chamber pressure if loaded with same charge and same COL. Brass is longer for weight than copper. All other factors constant, it will create a higher peak chamber pressure. Peak chamber pressure is different than "start pressure" which is merely the amount of that initial pressure rise required to get the bullet fully engaged and starting to move in the rifling. Here are the basic start pressure guidelines that QuickLoad recommends for plugging into the simulations (Moly coating or other friction-proofing methods require a factorial reduction of start pressure, etc.): Rifle Bullets: Jacketed: 3625 psi Solid Soft Brass: 1800 psi Solid Copper: 6525 psi FMJ with Hard Core: 6525 psi Handgun Bullets: Jacketed: 2175 psi Lead: 1160 psi Brass has a greater lubricity than copper. Brass is slick, copper is sticky.  I gotta go get ready to go huntin' soon, I will have to puzzle over this some more later. Will be dreaming of a hollow-based BBW#13 that incorporates all the benefits of the shoulder-stabilized nose shape plus the dart stabilization of "Center of Gravity Forward," CGF. A CGF-FN NONCON!!! Agreed, 450 to 500 grains for the .500-caliber brass and copper monometal NONCONs. Letter Rip | |||
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Ok I just have to ask/pose this question…”Would we see the same benefits from the CGF-FN NONCON demonstrated by this:   If we also did something like this hollow point design:  to the nose…would we still get something like this:  as a result? Or would the HB impede the shank’s penetration as well as inhibiting the petals shearing off resulting in perhaps nothing more than an expanded as displayed by the expanded 470gr HP SST bullet in the 3rd photograph? We could call it a BBW #13 CGF HB-HP NONCON!! Inquiring minds just had to ask? Or is it just one inquiring mind…aka by Michael as a “PITA”?? Oh well it’s out there so…what do you think??? Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Thanks Buddy! Much appreciated. With the lathe torn down, and being out of town, Whew-Break time! Oppps, wait a minute, I just hooked up 3 strain gages to 500 MDM, 50 B&M, 458 Super Short, hmmm, well, guess I will catch up on some much needed pressure tests, and other tests that have gone lacking, run and get a 1/2 of test medium, range cleanup, set up a couple of presses, and on and on. No rest here I think. Peter, when Sam sorts out bpe bullets, we will be ready this side! RIP For real? A TB-PhD and Black Lab Coat? Who da Man now? CGF--That is good. We must remember that for a future designation. Excellent. Can always rely on Doc RIP to come up with the catchy names for things! So it is! CGF-FN BBW #13 for the HBs! For NonCon Expanding--CGF-HP NonCon. Sam and I were sitting around the other day contemplating a HP, with a undercut around the blades, at a BBW #13 angle, when the blades shear--a BBW #13 Nose Profile! Neat! Of course a ragged edge profile, but none the less a BBW#13! Hmmmmm? Jim BBW #13 CGF HB-HP NonCon! Whew! OK. Not sure, thinking on it. In copper I tend to lean that an HB would inhibit the shearing of petals unless they were undercut or something. What I have seen for sure is that weight makes a difference in the copper shearing, The 380 and 426 tend to hang on to the petals at higher velocity than what the 470 can hang with them. For instance petals may start to shear at 2250 with a 380, 2200 with the 426, and 2150 with the 470. Weight, or one might say SD pushing the shearing effect on copper. Drop the weight, might inhibit, unless of course velocity can be increased, and stay under pressure? Maybe? I suppose at some point we will find out! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, I wish I could be around to help you with those pressure tests. Man that was a lot of work for two people. I don't know how you do it all! Sam | |||
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Sam Efficiency and proper procedure! HEH. I ordered two more extra wire connectors so we don't have to take the ones off the 470 Nitro. Soon as they come in I very much need to do some comparisons on the 500 MDM and the 458 Super Short. Then catch up with a lot of new loads that I did with the 50 B&M since I did the first pressure tests with those, I think it was 2008 last time I hooked things up. It's a bitch sometimes as sensitive as that is, as you know. Don't know if you noticed, but remember the computer sitting below on the set of the bench? And the unit on top of the bench next to the rifle? Imagine what muzzle blast and such can do to a computer? That's why. Have you received any of the 470 bullets or factory ammo yet? When do you want to plan another test session? Anytime fine with me, will make a plan around your schedule. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, Well I'm sure you can do it by yourself, lots of work. No I have not gotten any new bullets yet but hopefully tomorrow. I am sorting out new brass this morning to make sure we have enough 470 to continue the tests. I do have some mono solids loaded that you gave me and I was going to load a few cast bullets. Several people have sent factory ammo and bullets but none have showed up yet. We will have to put me coming down off until the following week. If I get any of the stuff in tomorrow I will load it up and send it to you. While I'm working you can be playing. Just found 120 new cases so we are good, all Bell the same as tested. Sam | |||
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Sam No, don't send anything to me. Just wait until you return after next week. I have plenty to do this week anyway. And, fact is, nothing is very pressing on the Nitro, yes, we want to know, but it can wait until you get back and come down here. Not sure when my stuff is going to arrive so I can get to work on the pressure tests, should be here in a couple of days. I can piddle around with that until you get back. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael/Sam The North Forks, Woody Hydros, and Trophy Bonded bullets should arrive at Sam's on Monday. Those Trophy Bonded bullets may look familiar. | |||
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Thanks Mike, Very nice of you to send those. Looking forward to adding them to the mix. Sam | |||
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Michael, Looking at it from the velocity and weight prospective...I agree with you that it likely won't be viable. Ah well, had to ponder it anyway. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Just melt the lead out of a Swift A frame and thats what you'll have. I see it didn't take long to get to page 101! | |||
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Pretty darn close...just a bit thicker center section. Yep, 101 pages and counting. The PDF file is now 2248 pages long and ready to start part 3. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Yep, the hollowpoint nose defeats the hollow base for CGF. Hollow base no good except for a solid FN. Idea is to get the center of gravity ahead of the center of form, for "dart stabilization." The BBW#13 nose shape gives relatively more mass forward than most of the old truncated cone FN nose shapes, I reckon, and that is another reason it should work better, besides the excellent shoulder stabilization. At least it will be easier to dart-stabilize, with a smaller amount of hollowing of the base, than some other nose shapes. | |||
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Guys I am still in a whirlwind over last week! What a hoot the pressure tests on the doubles turned out to be! Sam is out this week as we know, and when he returns we are making a plan to continue this test with lot's of other bullets. So this is extremely interesting to me so far. So we continue. In the meantime, I have ordered 250 of these two banded BBW #13s in a 500 gr Copper, exactly like the double rifle bullets, only in .500 caliber for the B&Ms. I will be testing, and doing pressure tests at the same time with this bullet as opposed to several others in the mix, and will be doing my best to put these in tiny .500 caliber bug holes at 50 yds to see about the accuracy. Of course the way I have been shooting the last few days I might have to import someone who can shoot! My 50 yd bug holes have turned into gopher holes! Need to get on that and sort that out! However, none of that is the reason for the post. You know we have had some guys go out to the field and return. I have heard from a few and have urged them to come and post photos of the bullets and the stories with them. So I think they are getting their photos and act together and soon will post us some results. Our very own Austringer took his 450 gr 458 caliber North Forks for buffalo, and from what I heard performance was great, and looks just like the ones we tested for him before he left. He mentioned hammering some zebra and wildebeast too. When you get a chance Austringer, we can't wait for the report and photos of the bullets. Another one of our own, m3taco, took his 45/70 bolt gun across the pond, shooting a variety of bullets and critters and has an excellent report coming, I hope! I asked him to, so I hope he will when he can. He does have one thing he did that interests me very much, and that is that 330 Barnes Banded that I like so well in .458 for my 458 B&M Super Short--Perfect for that cartridge, well it seems that m3taco sent one up the rear of a zebra and it exited the chest!! Now that is doing it for a 330 gr .458 caliber solid eh? It's a long way from rear to front exit on a zebra! Remember the 50 inches of performance we got right here in the test medium with same said bullet? How far is it from the ass to front of a zebra you reckon? Can't wait to hear more on both of these hunts! This is abotu terminals you know! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I don't recollect whether he's mentioned it here...there's been so much going on the past week...but Mike70560 has posted his hunt on the "Hunting Reports - Africa" forum...here's a link to the thread: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7881072141 May need to change his moniker to Mike70560x3 though! Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Oh I have not forgot our very own Mike by any stretch. He posted his buff here and it was a hammer of a buff too! My god--horns from Mikes house to mine looks like to me! He will get his on here when he catches up too I am sure. I know he had some fantastic looking bullets recovered and we can have good discussion on all of them. I was letting him catch his breath a bit, get caught up some. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Ah yes I'd forgotten. T'was a very nice buff and big smiles from Mike and Ms. Mike. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Hopefully these pictures will post correctly since I've not done it in a long time. These are from 7 Oct 2010 Tanzania, just west of Selous K-1. Pretty area, fairly open, and both of these animals taken in the middle of a very large mbuga (open plain between forest). (Yes, we did stalk up as 'close' as practical, without stampeding the hartebeest (1) or the sizable buffalo herd [50-70].  This is the hartebeest with Tanzan, wife, son, PH friend, and guides. The animal was stalked about 500 yards across an open plain in knocked-down, tall grass, leaving about 3-4 feet of cover. At a remaining 250 yards the hartebeest stopped eating and turned to fix his full attention on us. So the shot was taken at that point with a tripod rest and elbow supported.  This is a heart (pictured) from a hartebeest harvested with a 338 Win Mag with 225 TTSX at 250 yards. 3/4 to face-on, entered inside close leg, thru heart and exited on far flank with smallish bullet hole (not pictured). A small hole is typical of shots that would otherwise have been contained by the flexible skin grabbing a conventional lead mushroom instead of the sharp petals of a Barnes TTSX. Impact sound was a loud crack that was distinctly heard by my wife 800 yards away on the edge of the forest. Animal ran/wobbled about 30-40 yards.  Son's first buffalo, a selected old cow (for meat and pointed out by PH). First shot was very fatal, thru lungs at 200 yards, ([200 is not generally recommended] but it was from a very secure rest, accurate rifle, capable shooter, no intervening grass, confident PH in shooter's skills). 416 TSX 350 grain exited lungs on far side. Second shot (turned out unnecessary) was recovered in the far hip and is pictured below for the Terminal Ballistics forum. Impact was weakish 'thwap' and not heard by wife/mother about a kilometer away, though the shots were clearly heard. Second shot was also a less-distinct 'thwap', not heard a kilometer away.  416 Rigby, 350 Barnes TSX, muzzle velocity 2675 fps, impact velocity about 2100 fps at just over 250 yards (second shot, not first!). Recovered weight 349.2 grains, 99+%. Petal spreads were .78" and .80". All in all, very impressive and reliable performance. While halving the buffalo body for loading into a pickup we watched two groups of hartebeest playing 350 yards away. One group left the scene, the second continued to play, apparently aware that we were no longer interested in them, except to watch. And with the first hartebeest and buffalo the freezer was full, though we also took an old, smallish reedbuck. Such is the life of non-trophy meat hunters. Back to DAR. Tanzan +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Very nice hunting Tanzan, looks like those TSX's worked just fine.Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Tanzan Thank You! Excellent field terminal report, and with bullets we have tested right here on terminals too! And they look pretty much the same as tested, at least the one recoverd. Excellent job! Can you give a estimate on depth of penetration on any of them? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I wonder what the long 577 BBW #13 in aluminum would weigh? Would be interesting to see the penetration and velocity with the same charge. 4,000 FPS? Extreme trauma for sure! 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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