Ron,
I'm impressed - thank you for adding this knowledge, especially re "what happens with a big pistol case when you ACTUALLY load it for a rifle"

Going full circle, you are getting numbers that are around the 450 and 500 BPE. Where is my Monocle and pith helmet?

jeffeosso,
Welcome, my pleasure to find this out myself.
It seems that the approximately 3000 ft-lb loads are where it is happenin', especially with the 500-grain B.O. at 1644 fps.
The 400-grain XTP at 2000 fps might be the energy king (+3500 ft-lbs), but those XTP pistol bullets are not up to snuff for rifle duty,
except for varmints.

I will feel like this Mighty Mite Exploration is complete when I do two more things:
1) See how fast the 475-grain S&H FN bullet will go with the LIL'GUN/WLR combination. +1700 fps and +3000 ft-lbs with that bullet is expected.
2) Try the 517-grain cast boolits with LIL'GUN/WLR. 1620 fps with that bullet would be about 3000 ft-lbs KE.
That, or less, would be awsome for deer, pig or barking squirrels.

Rip ...

I ask that you consider work with some slower powders, rel7, h335 ..

3000ft/lb puts it right with my favorite, the 358 winchester .. and thats never faint praise

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I ask that you consider work with some slower powders, rel7, h335 ..

3000ft/lb puts it right with my favorite, the 358 winchester .. and thats never faint praise

I did try H4198, close to RL-7,
and it was too slow.
AA-5744, faster, was almost there.
Lots of unburned powder with both H4198 and AA-5744.
But those were tried with WLP primers, before I learned better.
I might do those again with WLR powder.

Rip ...

AA1680 @ 100%+ load density.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
AA1680 @ 100%+ load density.

I like that idea. Haven't got that powder in hand yet, but will.
Something special for my special, homemade 517-grainer.
I will use a WLR primer with that.

Rip ...

Rip, how heavy a crimp are you using?

theback40,

I have Hornady dies for the 480 Ruger/.475 Linebaugh that provide a separate die for crimping, the 4-die set is standard.
I also have the simple 3-die set from Lee for 480 Ruger, which has the crimp built into the seater die. No Lee "Factory Crimp Die," yet.
The Hornady crimping die has worked well. I do not think lack of crimp is an issue with powder ignition.
All my .475 Linebaugh loads have had good crimp,
heavy crimp.

The powder ignition issue with the .475 Linebaugh comes from increasing the effective case volume so much by LongCOL loading, I am sure.

Rip ...

jwp475,

The local emporium finally restocked the AA-1680.
It must be so good that they were previously sold out.

Next time out is with AA-1680, WLR primer, and 475-grain brass FN, and 517-grain cast boolit.
Easy plan: 100% loads with each bullet for starters.
Compressed loads only as needed until +3000 ft-lbs muzzle energy with each bullet is obtained ... since the 400-grain XTP does +3500 ft-lbs quite easily with LIL'GUN,
and the 500-grain B.O. easily exceeds 3000 ft-lbs with LIL'GUN ...

Rip ...

Recovering from flu, no shoot today but loading .458 Win. Mag. LongCOL 400-grain GSC HV: Done.

Next up is .475 Linebaugh LongCOL rifle.
Here is my crude estimation of how much AA-1680 to use for 100% loads with WLR primer.
I do not use QuickLOAD anymore.
I fly by the seat of my pants.
I have used AA-5744 (one notch faster burning) at 34.0 grains with the 519-grain version of the cast bullet, WLP primer.
There was lots of unburnt powder and velocity of 1543 fps MV (using BC = 0.200 estimation) and KE 2743 ft-lbs.



I will start with 39.0 grains with the 517-grain (best quality batch of casting),
and 33.0 grains of AA-1680 with 475-grain best quality brass FN from S&H.
Will adjust from there depending on fitting and firing results.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Recovering from flu, no shoot today but loading .458 Win. Mag. LongCOL 400-grain GSC HV: Done.

Next up is .475 Linebaugh LongCOL rifle.
Here is my crude estimation of how much AA-1680 to use for 100% loads with WLR primer.
I do not use QuickLOAD anymore.
I fly by the seat of my pants.
I have used AA-5744 (one notch faster burning) at 34.0 grains with the 519-grain version of the cast bullet, WLP primer.
There was lots of unburnt powder and velocity of 1543 fps MV (using BC = 0.200 estimation) and KE 2743 ft-lbs.



I will start with 39.0 grains with the 517-grain (best quality batch of casting),
and 33.0 grains of AA-1680 with 475-grain best quality brass FN from S&H.
Will adjust from there depending on fitting and firing results.

Rip ...

excellent.

Glad you are recovering.

AA-1680 is denser than LIL'GUN.
A case-full weight of powder:
AA-1680 = 52.3 grains
LIL-GUN = 48.7 grains

I have loaded 6 rounds each with AA-1680:
39.0 grains with 517-grain GC-PC cast bullet
33.0 grains with 475-grain S&H Brass FN
Seems about right for 100% fills.
That allows one shot of each as a throw-away fouler, and 5 shots of each for chronograph average.

I have also loaded some LIL'GUN loads with both bullets:
31.0 grains with 517-grainer
31, 32, and 33 grains with 475-grainer.
This allows for an intersection on the velocity versus powder charge weight graph for the 475-grain bullet at least:
33.0 grains of AA-1680 versus 33.0 grains of LIL'GUN.

All of the above should make for some useful data.
More data will be needed.

Rip ...

26 shots pending.

Whenever I get to at least 5 minutes between coughing spasms, I will head to the range.
Worst "flu" I ever had.

The flood waters are receding.
The mud is firming up.
.
.
.


Rip ...

Gettin' cabin fever here ... SOON!

Anecdote:
The Hornady .500 S&W loads for 500-grain JFP max out at 1300 fps with an 8-3/8" barrel (handgun).
Seven powders shown in the manual will do this at maximum charge.
My pick of two of those, maximum charges:
LIL'GUN 32.4 grains with WLR primer: 1300 fps
AA-1680 44.0 grains with WLR primer: 1300 fps
(add about 300 fps for a 22"-barreled rifle with shortCOL loads)

Anecdote above is in support of the AA-1680 recommended by jwp475,
in addition to my LIL'GUN trial with heavy bullets in the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL.
Two ways to skin the cat.

BTW:
.500 S&W LongCOL is coming, one of these days.
Guess which of these is too long to fit in the throat of the factory H&R Handi Rifle?





Rip ...

#7?

Close!
But no cigar.
#6: Yep, it is tricky.




Rip ...

I know this is the big bore rifle forum but you need a Magnum Research BFR to have some real "fun" with the long col .500 S&W!!! Be sure to invest in a hard hat though!!!

srshooter,

That was just some funnin' with the .500 S&W, to be continued after further .475 Linebaugh LongCOL "research."

I do have a 3/8" brass rod 36" long now that I do not mind taking a hammer to.
Found it at the local Rural King store.
But I do not think I am going to get any bullets stuck in my barrel now.
Hope to shoot tomorrow.
Predicted sun and 52 F at noon tomorrow,
rain tonight, will wear my rubbers to the range.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
srshooter,

That was just some funnin' with the .500 S&W, to be continued after further .475 Linebaugh LongCOL "research."

I do have a 3/8" brass rod 36" long now that I do not mind taking a hammer to.
Found it at the local Rural King store.
But I do not think I am going to get any bullets stuck in my barrel now.
Hope to shoot tomorrow.
Predicted sun and 52 F at noon tomorrow,
rain tonight, will wear my rubbers to the range.

Rip ...

It's pretty cool what you can do with big bore revolver rounds if you have the right vehicle and an adventurous reloading spirit!!

You may want to try Reloader 7 for the real heavies and a light to moderately compressed load. It's a bit on the slow side but it may surprise you if there's enough of the .475's case made available in your long col loads.....plus you've got a rifle barrel to that should like the slower powder just fine. It's just a thought.

Thanks for the tip, H4198 was too slow, RL-7 might be a little faster, but I think I have settled on AA-1680 for the heavy bullet load,
LIL'GUN for lighter bullet loads,
always with WLR primer, not WLP:

The Ruger No.1 quarter rib was loose for sure after the second shot of 31.0 grains of LIL'GUN with the 517-grain cast bullet at 1661 fps MV.

I took the scope off, and tried using the fold-up rear sight on the quarter rib.
Each shot would make the rear sight fold down (folds forward).

To finish up I had to shoot the 39.0 grain load of AA-1680 with the 517-grainer.
The folding rear sight stayed upright after each shot with that.
Velocity was almost as good as with LIL'GUN, but the AA-1680 recoil was not as snappy as with the LIL'GUN,
even though the charge weight of AA-1680 is 8.0 grains greater.
It is quite a bit slower burning.
I'll have to do the recoil numbers on this ...

AA-1680 gives 3016 ft-lbs KE with the 517-grainer at 1621 fps.
I like it.
That is my powder for 517-grainers henceforth.
The WLR primers and good crimp burned the powder well, no unburnt powder seen.
No bullets stuck in barrel either.

Lil'GUN is my powder for the 475-grain Brass FN at 1726 fps MV and 3142 ft-lbs.

Rip ...

When the dwarf rifle busted the Warne QD rings, it may have saved the quarter rib, or it may have been working loose since then?

The Ruger OEM rings would not let go of the Nikon SlugHunter, so it finished busting the quarter rib loose.
Nikon scope is ready to go on another rifle now, with secure attachment.

Anyway, a scope on this rifle is kind of ridiculous.
It has served its purpose for load development.
I need a higher rear iron sight and a peep will probably do that,
after a trip to the Gun Doctor to solidly re-attach the quarter rib.






This does not give me confidence in factory Ruger No.1 quarter rib attachment.
I'll be more aware of need for beefing up that attachment.


Rip ...

My fault for not checking the screws on the quarter rib more often,
instead of never, on this one, not even when I switched scope rings.

I am reassured and may continue using the scope,
but I am going to try the peep sight next anyway.



Amazingly, all 4 screws were loose, and no other fouls found, thank goodness.
I thought Ruger used a couple of heavy-duty stud-pins, or at least one, as a recoil stop under the quarter rib, in addition to the screws.
Not so on this one.
Just 4 Torx screws that look to be 8x40 by eyeball.
All soaking in oil under the base.
No LOCTITE!
Loosy-goosy all around!
I can fix this myself:
De-grease and J-B WELD the base to the barrel with existing 4 screws.
This will seal out any lubricant from getting in there, and lock the screw threads.
Can be removed with low torch heat and wet towels wrapped around the rest of the metal.



Rip ...

Rip, I've never had any issues with the Ruger No. 1 quarter rib, even after many heavy .458 Lotts being sent down the barrel, but it would have had me stumped for a bit as I rarely check the screws either!

I also like my NECG peep sight on my No 1 .458 and it stays there about 75% of the time. I do switch it out with a 2-7x Leupold sometimes but I prefer the looks, weight, and balance without the scope.

The Ruger No 1 is pure class and you are doing some pretty cool things with your little thumper. Every day or two I have to visit this thread to see what progress you've made. Keep up the good work sir!

24 hours to harden:





I have 10 or a dozen loads I like in this rifle, will go draw up a list.


Accuracy testing will be better if the scope and iron sights are not loosy-goosy.



Rip ...

Here is a summary of preferred loads in the 20"-Barreled Ruger No.1 .475 Linebaugh/480 Ruger. Results are for two SAAMI Hornady factory loads (one .475L, one 480R) and a dozen RIP LongCOL handloads with Hornady .475 Linebaugh brass, primer is WLP or WLR as specified:

325-grain Hornady XTP (BC = 0.150) Hornady factory load, 480 Ruger, COL = 1.620":
*********************************************************************************
Factory-claimed 7.5" Revolver MV = 1350 fps (assumed 70*F)
Tested in my 7.5" Revolver, MV = 1273 fps (52*F) 5-shot mean, 5-shot Sd = 22 fps
Tested in My 20" Rifle, MV = 1579 fps (52*F) 5-shot mean, 5-shot Sd = 7 fps, MOA = 1.21 (5-shot)
20" Rifle adds over 300 fps (plus whatever +18*F velocity increase), versus actual 7.5" Revolver Factory Load

400-grain Hornady XTP (BC = 0.182) Hornady factory load, .475 Linebaugh, COL = 1.746":
**************************************************************************************
Factory-claimed 7.5" Revolver MV = 1300 fps (assumed 70*F)
Not tested by me in Revolver.
Tested in My 20" Rifle, MV = 1430 fps (52*F) 11-shot mean, 11-shot Sd = 15 fps, MOA = 1.69 (3-shot)
20" Rifle adds 130 fps (plus whatever +18*F velocity increase) versus claimed 7.5" Revolver Factory Load


The following are RIP .475 Linebaugh LongCOL 20"-barreled Ruger No.1 Rifle Loads Only, not for Handgun:

325-grain Hornady XTP (BC = 0.150), COL = 1.925":
*************************************************
Winchester Large Rifle (WLR) primer
37.0 grains LIL'GUN >>> MV = 2070 fps (45*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 5 fps, MOA N/A-No Target: 3092 ft-lbs
38.0 grains LIL'GUN >>> MV = 2149 fps (45*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 10 fps, MOA N/A-No Target: 3332 ft-lbs

400-grain Hornady XTP (BC = 0.182), COL = 2.075":
*************************************************
Winchester Large Pistol (WLP) primer
36.0 grains LIL'GUN >>> MV = 1976 fps (52*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 6 fps, MOA = 0.89 (3-shot): Tropical Load
36.5 grains LIL'GUN >>> MV = 1996 fps (52*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 3 fps, MOA = 1.31 (3-shot): Winter Load, KE = 3538 ft-lbs

475-grain S&H Brass FN Solid (BC = 0.250), COL = 2.435":
********************************************************
Winchester Large Rifle (WLR) primer
33.0 grains AA-1680 >>> MV = 1331 fps (50*F) 5-shot mean, 5-shot Sd = 9 fps, MOA = 0.80 (3-shot)
33.0 grains LIL'GUN >>> MV = 1726 fps (48*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 10 fps, MOA = 1.49 (3-shot): Arctic Whaling Load, KE = 3142 ft-lbs

500-grain Barnes Original RNSP (BC = 0.352), COL = 2.375":
**********************************************************
Winchester Large Rifle (WLR) primer
31.0 grains LIL'GUN >>> MV = 1644 fps (45*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 1 fps (Holy Cow!), MOA N/A-No Target: KE = 3000 ft-lbs
32.5 grains LIL'GUN >>> MV = 1690 fps (45*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 3 fps (Holy Cat!), MOA N/A-No Target: KE = 3171 ft-lbs

516-grain Cast Bullet (GC-PC-FN) (BC = 0.200), COL = 2.285":
************************************************************
Winchester Large Pistol (WLP) primer
33.0 grains H4198 >>> MV = 1382 fps (52*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 21 fps (Unholy Cow!), MOA = 0.89

519-grain Cast Bullet (GC-PC-FN) (BC = 0.200), COL = 2.285":
************************************************************
Winchester Large Pistol (WLP) primer
31.5 grains AA-5744 >>> MV = 1470 fps (54*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 4 fps, MOA = 0.43 (3-shot)(HOLY COW!!!): KE = 2490 ft-lbs

517-grain Cast Bullet (GC-PC-FN) (BC = 0.200), COL = 2.285":
************************************************************
Winchester Large Rifle (WLR) primer
39.0 grains AA-1680 >>> MV = 1621 fps (50*F) 6-shot mean, 6-shot Sd = 7 fps, MOA N/A-Loose Quarter Rib: KE = 3016 ft-lbs
31.0 grains LIL'GUN >>> MV = 1658 fps (54*F) 5-shot mean, 5-shot Sd = 3 fps, MOA N/A-Loose Quarter Rib: KE = 3155 ft-lbs

The wibbles compensated outstandingly well for the wobbles on that 519-grain cast bullet load.

Rip ...

Favorite load of my dozen handloads:



500-grain Barnes Original RNSP (BC = 0.352), COL = 2.375":
**********************************************************
Winchester Large Rifle (WLR) primer
31.0 grains LIL'GUN >>> MV = 1644 fps (45*F) 3-shot mean, 3-shot Sd = 1 fps (Holy Cow!), MOA N/A-No Target: KE = 3000 ft-lbs

It was fired on a day when I was crowded down to a no-target spot with a portable shooting bench, skipping the bullets into the 300-yard berm.

When I go back with this load, I will have the scope secure, and a peep sight to try too.
Maybe with a big, white bead or a big, gold sourdough.

Rip ...

Try that 500 grain Barnes original with AA1680.

the barnes originals may very well open up at those vels!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the barnes originals may very well open up at those vels!

That’s what I was thinking.
And they probably won’t go to pieces in the process.
Good match of velocity to nonbonded .049” thickness copper jacket
filled with soft lead.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Try that 500 grain Barnes original with AA1680.

Saving the AA-1680 for the 517-grain Powder-Coated-Gas-Checked-Cast.
That is my second favorite load.
Also bettering 3000 ft-lbs at close to Mach 1.5, 1621 FPS,
With 39.0 grains AA-1680 and WLR primer:



Rip ...

Now to see how my endless supply of 517-grain cast bullets works in the 470 Mbogo and 470 NE.
Case capacities for those two are near identical,
Same loads should work for both, just different brass and twist rates (1:16" and 1:21" respectively).
I won't bother trying it in a 1:10" 470 Capstick,
unless I get really big bored.

The Midget rifle has served well as my initial .475-caliber cast bullet tester.

Rip ...

The NECG Ruger peep sight is way too high to be useful on the Ruger No.1 .475 Linebaugh.
It would require a ridiculously tall front sight.
The .475 Linebaugh 400-grain factory loads do shoot higher than the 325-grain 480 Ruger factory loads.

.
.
.

I am giving up on this .475 Linebaugh LongCOL crap!
I am going to stick to only 480 Ruger in my Ruger No.1.
It is much more comfortable to shoot and even that short little round with 325-grain XTP is capable of 1.25 MOA for 5 shots in the Ruger No.1.
That is all I need for pigs and deer and such.
A slightly taller, bigger and brighter front bead will be perfect for the OEM rear sight on the quarter rib.
.
.
.
.



April Fools.
I'll make it work for both .475 Linebaugh LongCOL and 480 Ruger.
The Linebaugh loads with heavier bullets shoot just a little faster than the 480 Ruger factory loads do in the Ruger No.1.
With greater recoil and similar barrel time, the .475 loads shoot higher than the 480 factory loads.
But 400-grainers at 2000 fps shoot very close to same POI as 325-grainers at near 1600 fps.

Taller and brighter front bead, rear sight high for 480 Ruger, rear sight low for .475 Linebaugh.
I might get it to work.
And there is always a scope zero for any load, thanks to the J-B Welded quarter rib.

I will say that the Hornady 480 Ruger 325-grain Factory load is really nice in a revolver.
Especially a 4-5/8" Super Blackhawk.
It is about all I can enjoy in a handgun.
Factory MV is 1350 fps claimed in 7.5" revolver.
I tested it at 52*F and got 1273 fps MV in a 7.5" Super Redhawk, 1579 fps MV in the 20" Ruger No.1.

Sumbuddy who know how fast a 4-5/8"-barreled revolver does compared to a 7.5"-barreled revolver?
What is the estimated MV loss for about 3" barrel chop of a revolver,
with a Hornady 480 Ruger 325-grain factory load?

That Lipsey's 480 Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley 4-5/8" sure is pretty. Like a piece of hard rock candy, though not just for looking at.

Rip ...

Best I have found so far is John Taffin:
Hornady 480 Ruger 325-grain factory ammo in a 9.5"-barreled Super Redhawk: 1350 fps
Same ammo in the SRH custom-bobbed to 4.75" barrel: 1200 fps

That would predict 1287 fps for a 7.5" SRH, very close to the 1273 fps MV I got with same factory ammo at 52*F.
So Hornady quoted ballistics are for a 9.5" SRH, from early on in the 480 Ruger story, I reckon.

So that predicts a 52*F MV for a 4-5/8" Super Blackhawk with same ammo, of 1182 fps.
Supersonic!

That means the Ruger No.1 20" rifle beats the short-barreled cowboy revolver by 397 fps,
about 400 fps,
until proven otherwise by sumbuddy who know.

4-5/8"-barreled chronograph data for the 480 Ruger is scarce as hens' teeth on the internet.

Rip ...