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Rip I didn't write down the temp, but my notes said early july, that would make it in the 70's here. With the longer chamber, and long throat I'm not surprised at the 100 fps difference. I have 26.5 of Lil'gun and a 355 grn LFN bullet at 1827 fps. 27 grns of H110 and the same bullet clocked 1660 fps. Both loads sparked with CCI 350 primers. | |||
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bobmn, Noted, thanks. The local temp here is predicted to go back up to 51 F Friday. I might get to shoot then. I hope to keep it fairly consistent on the temps for this load development, 50's F will do. Certainly nothing below 40 F. It was 15 F here early today and 32 F right now. Rip ... | |||
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jwp475, That would be great advice with the revolver bullets, but I am just going to start with 30.0 grains of H110 and the 500-grain B.O. rifle bullet. Hopefully the extra bullet weight will contain the H110 long enough to ignite uniformly. The worst that can happen is unburnt powder, erratic velocities, or bullet stuck in the barrel. I'll take a 3/8" cold-rolled steel rod and a hammer to the range. Rip ... | |||
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theback40, That makes good sense, yep, your 480 Ruger with tighter throat is about 100 fps faster with the 480 Ruger factory load than my .475 Linebaugh "Magnum" with same ammo. Sort of like firing .375 H&H ammo in a .375 Wby rifle versus firing it in a .375 H&H rifle. I also see that your 480 Ruger handloads are the maximum loads from the Hodgdon "Annual Manual" except you are using the CCI-350 primer, instead of the WLP that they show. Your 20" rifle barrel beats the 7.5" revolver by about 200 to 300 fps, depending on the load. Too bad Hodgdon doesn't supply any .475 Linebaugh data at all, not even "shortCOL." Rip ... | |||
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H-110/296 doesn’t like air space in most cases. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Not looking to push things in my little Rossi, no where near the strength of a Number1. My cast load supposedly is 44,000 psi with lil'gun. Should be able to shoot that with no worries. I also did 18 grns of lil'gun with a 440 grn lfn cast. 1400 fps, and quite a bit of recoil in that little straight stocked rifle. | |||
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I shoot a 460gr cast in my no.3 45-70 at 1460 with a minimum charge of 4198 it has enough recoil for me. I really don't to add the extra powder to bring it up to max. From the damage I have seen it inflict on hogs it works very well. | |||
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Personally I would invest in a brass rod. | |||
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p dog, the no 3 stock has about the same style "fun" stock shape for heavy recoil! | |||
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I thought about putting a wad over powder before seating the bullets, but did not do so. If there is any funny business I will pull the bullets and use the overpowder wad. At this point I think it is safer to start with less than case-filling powder charge. Should be educational for this Missouri mule. Rip ... | |||
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I will do that. I have only a brass muzzleloader cleaning rod (too nice to beat with a hammer) and some half-inch brass allthread (too thick). But if I see a 3/8" smooth brass rod at the hardware store I will buy it. Until then, a 27" length of 3/8" steel rod will be wrapped in masking tape. Maybe even custom fitted to the barrel with enough tape. Hopefully I will not need to use it. Rip ... | |||
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I am loading 10 more rounds with each primer and LIL'GUN, also a 30.0 grains starting load. Same test as for H110. WLR versus WLP, 500-grain B.O. bullets at 2.375" COL. 36.5 grains of LIL'GUN with WLP primer moved the 400-grain XTP along at 1996 fps MV at 52 F. I guesstimate it would be about 2032 fps at 70 F, 2092 fps at 100 F. This is going to be a shoot-off between H110 and LIL'GUN with the 500-grain B.O. bullet. Here's hoping for no stinking bullet lodged in the barrel. I'll drink to that. I am thinking that the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL is more akin to the .500 S&W regarding primer requirements and powder choice. Hodgdon's ANNUAL MANUAL shows use of WLRM primer with .500 S&W. Hornady manual shows use of WLR with .500 S&W and .475 Linebaugh (SAAMI COL). Western Powders manual shows use of WLP with .475 Linebaugh (SAAMI COL), and CCI-350 with .475 Linebaugh Maximum (a lesser cartridge than the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL), but WLR with .500 S&W. This suggests ranking of primer brisance like so: WLP </= CCI350 < WLR < WLRM (hottest) F215 is </= WLRM, some have said. I might have to try slowpokes H4198 and RL-7 with the F-215 or WLRM primer next in the Mighty Mite, if LIL'GUN and H110 disappoint. Or, AA-5744 with WLR then F215/WLRM might be more likely next, if need be. 500-grain B.O. bullets. No stinkers. Fingers crossed. Rip ... | |||
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First Annual Meeting of the Kentucky Chapter of "The .475 Linebaugh LongCOL Rifle Shooter's Club." We are not an exclusive club, all are welcome, but I was the only member at the meeting to take pictures of the non-gathering: The main event was a shootoff between LIL'GUN and H110 powders, same 30.0-grain charge weight for both powders. 10 shots with WLP (Magnum Pistol) and 10 shots with WLR (Large Rifle) primers for both powders: 40 shots total. All loads with the .475-cal/500-grain Barnes Original RNSP bullet (BC = 0.352, SD = 0.317). In the order of firing, 10-shot Average MV, and 10-shot Standard Deviation, in fps, (20" barrel, 2.375" COL, 45 degrees F): LIL'GUN and WLP: 1564 fps, Sd = 9 LIL'GUN and WLR: 1582 fps, Sd = 8 H110 and WLP: 1340 fps, Sd = 34 H110 and WLR: 1430 fps, Sd = 22 I might have seen some unburnt powder in the barrel with H110, very little. It looks like H110 is harder to ignite, and yes, airspace in the case does not help it. Using the WLR (Rifle) primer added 90 fps to MV and improved the Sd slightly. LIL'GUN, on the other hand, with its 10% greater nitroglycerine content (according to sumbuddy who know), ignites just fine with the WLP (pistol) primer. Using the WLR (Rifle) primer only added 18 fps to MV, and Sd was excellent with both WLP and WLR: The Sd in fps was less than the number of shots fired with each primer type. There was airspace in the LIL'GUN loads too. The WLP loads were more accurate than the WLR loads. Looks like I will easily get over 1600 fps with 500-grainers and LIL'GUN, using even the WLP (Pistol) primer. This was the starting load for both LIL'GUN and H110 with the 500-grain B.O. Looks like LIL'GUN is the winner, for all my 400-grain and heavier bullets. LIL'GUN for the LIL'RIFLE, seems appropriate: The .458 Winchester Magnum LongCOL is to "Longclaw" (sword of Jon Snow, the "Bastard" King In the North), as the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL is to the dagger of Tyrion Lannister (World's Most Powerful Dwarf). Both made of Valyrian steel. Game of Rifles. The perfect hunting knife to pair with the LIL'RIFLE, the Cat's Paw dagger: Guesstimating 2 fps per degree F, the LIL'GUN 500-grainer at 1564 fps (45F) might speed up by summer: 70F: 1614 fps MV 90F: 1654 fps MV I'll add some more powder in half-grain increments, while it is still cool. Summer is coming! Rip ... | |||
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Add more H-110 _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I am sticking with LIL'GUN in this LIL'RIFLE. Using H110 would be like bottle feeding the tyke instead of breastfeeding it. I'll use the H110 in my 454 Casull revolver. It's good for +1600 fps with 300-grain JFPs there, and that is all I can handle with one hand. In the LIL'RIFLE I can handle more than H110 can deliver. I won't be burning up the barrel practicing Cowboy Action Shooting with it like I might with the Casull. Let the nitroglycerine rip! Rip ... | |||
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http://home.earthlink.net/~sha...yHook/SandyHook.html Some inspiration You are in the 45-70-500 territory there. Congrats! Now get working on the plumbing bullets!!! 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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boom stick, Thanks for the fascinating link. I will at least try mine out to 600 yard gongs. Not 3200 yards! Summer is coming! Rip ... | |||
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Ya gotta at least try for one mile. Make a target out of two 4'x8' sheets of plywood painted a bright color with a 3' black dot in the middle. Just got to find the right pointy bullet for it. Let your inner Quigley come out. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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boom stick, Sounds like a plan: Billboard shooting at 1-mile with the LIL'RIFLE. Forget King Of 2 Mile in Raton, New Mexico! All the rules, schedule, and competition can take the edge off the fun of KO2M. Fun enough can be had at 1 mile! If you chopped Quigley's barrel from 34" down to 20" ... First he would ask "Where's the rest of the barrel?" Then he would switch to smokeless powder, a VLD bullet, and a Nikon SlugHunter scope. Rip ... | |||
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The faster the bullet goes, the faster it loses velocity. For the .475/500-grain Barnes Original bullet with manufacturer reported BC of 0.352, initial 5-yard velocity loss, rounded to nearest 1 fps: 1650 fps MV: 10 fps 1582 fps MV: 9 fps 1564 fps MV: 9 fps 1430 fps MV: 8 fps 1340 fps MV: 7 fps I'll add LIL'GUN until the 5-yard chrono reads 1640 fps or better. How's that for picking the fly specs out of the pepper? At 1650 fps MV the 500-grainer will deliver 3022 ft-lbs KE, and should be very easy to do. I think I might trust the integrity of the 0.049"-jacketed B.O. at that MV. The 400-grain XTP at a submaximal 1996 fps MV (52F) delivered 3538 ft-lbs KE. At 2000 fps MV that is an easy 3552 ft-lbs KE At 2050 fps MV ............... 3732 ft-lbs KE. At 2100 fps MV ............... 3920 ft-lbs KE. At 2130 fps MV ............... 4028 ft-lbs KE. OK, even 2000 fps with a 400-grain XTP is a bit much for bullet integrity. But 1750 fps with the 475-grain S&H brass FN should be a flat-out penetrator, with 3230 ft-lbs KE. Guesstimated BC of 0.250 gives velocity loss of 15 fps for first 5 yards. So I need to get that one up to 1735 fps on the 5-yard chrono. That is being conservative. It will probably go faster than that. I will have to shoot it at 100 yards and 300 yards and see if that BC is a close enough guesstimation. That brass FN can handle anything up to 2800 fps MV, which is 470 Mbogo territory. After that, even brass solids go south for the winter. Rip ... | |||
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RIP, you need to try AA1680, the go to powder in the 475 Maximum. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Go-to load data for AA-1680 with 500-grain bullets in the .475 Maximum is pretty hard to find. Does it exist? AA-1680 is a babystep slower than AA-5744, admittedly a very different sort of powder. But LIL'GUN is a lot faster, and the only powder I have tried here that gives me the warm and fuzzies. I like the way it meters and pours. I need to work-up with LIL'GUN before I do anything else. Rip ... | |||
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When Ruger first introduced this LIL'RIFLE in 2009 it had a 22" barrel. Somewhere along the way it lost two inches of barrel, and dropped below 7 pounds in weight. I think fast-burning and energetic LIL'GUN is not losing much velocity in 20" of barrel versus 22". And the shorter barrel adds to the appeal of the LIL'RIFLE, the mighty dwarf of big bores. He got a nice scar on his face out of that one, and women think it makes him sexier. Ain't fantasy great? Rip ... | |||
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OK, OK, sumbuddy out there is going to come up with a Ruger No.1-S in .500 S&W. I think 20" would be cute on that too. And there is already a lever-action for that one. When I get finished with the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL, I am thinking about a .500 S&W LongCOL rifle, have not tried it in the 22"-barreled H&R-NEF-er sitting next to the LIL'RIFLE. Never say "never" to a NEF-er. Enunciate, like NEFFER. Ain't phonics great? The NEF-er weighs 6#15oz dry, 2 ounces heavier than the LIL'RIFLE. It's muzzle diameter is about 0.890" versus 0.675" for LIL'RIFLE Ruger No.1-S. The NEF-er is 37.5" long, only a 1/2" longer with the more compact break-open action. The Nikon SlugHunter will fit on the Weaver cross-slot base just fine, in Burris X-Treme Tacticool rings. And I have a bunch of 500-grain bullets for it ... Just wondering how long that throat is, and what is the twist rate ... 1:18.75" or 1:20" like the TC Encore? https://www.tcarms.com/firearm...-pro-hunter-katahdin I feel another thread coming on. Rip ... | |||
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500 Linebaugh Maximum? Shoot 50 bmg bullets with a rainbow trajectory. Subsonic with silencer? 50 Alaskan? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Yes it exists and AA1680 is your Huckaberry I’ll get you load data from the guy that first advised AA1680 for heavy loads in the maximum. I sho7ld have remembered this sooner. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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OK, OK, sumbuddy out there is going to come up with a Ruger No.1-S in 500 Linebaugh Maximum also ... like boom stick just did. Shazam! Great idea boom stick. However, that will have to wait for me. I need to finish playing with the toys on hand before I go looking for another revolver-carbine combo. 500 Linebaugh and 500 Maximum .510-caliber combo would certainly be nicer than a .500 S&W combo. Rip ... | |||
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Great! Back to the .475 Linebaugh Maximization. My own jackaloping off. Rip ... | |||
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RIP: Do you know the difference in impact point at 100 yards when sighted in for the long loaded cartridge and a SAAMI lenghth cartridge with 400 grain bullet? Or vice versa. Thanks. | |||
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bobmn, I am still in the load development phase, chrono at 5 yards, paper at 50 yards, and gongs out to 300 yards. So I have same-day, same-scope-setting results for the factory SAAMI ammo versus LongCOL 400-grain XTP, with the Ruger No.1, at 50 yards only. Here is what I have: Hornady .475 Linebaugh factory load, 1438 fps MV: + 2.5" (high), ~1" left windage: LongCOL .475 Linebaugh handload, 1996 fps MV: -3" (low), ~0" windage: So there is a 5.5" difference in elevation at 50 yards. The faster load shoots lower because it exits the barrel sooner, less barrel time, as the barrel is rising in recoil. Quite a difference in POI for the same POA. However, the 480 Ruger Hornady factory ammo with 325-grain XTP at 1579 fps MV from the Ruger No.1 has less recoil and less barrel time than the .475 Linebaugh factory load. It shoots to about -0.75" (low) and ~0" windage at 50 yards. POI is lower than the slower and heavier recoiling .475 Linebaugh, about midway between the factory and LongCOL loads above, with same POA and scope setting unchanged. Makes sense. I should not try to extrapolate this to 100 yards but here goes anyway. Guesstimation: If the speedy LongCOL 400-grainer was zeroed dead-on at 100 yards, the slowpoke factory 400 grainer might actually be shooting about +5" high at 100 yards? The 480 Ruger load might be only about +2" high at 100 yards? I might get around to actually shooting that comparison at 100 yards, but I have not done that yet. I am thinking my "go-to" load for the .475 LongCOL is going to be a 500-grainer at about 1650 fps MV. This will have a higher POI than the 400-grainer at +2000 fps, for same scope setting and POA. I will zero the rifle at 100 yards when I have settled on a load. I may have to slow down the 400-grain LongCOL or speed up a 325-grainer if I want a light load to shoot to same POI as the 500-grainer at "regulation." But maybe the 480 Ruger factory load will be right on the money with my 500-grain, handloaded, primary load? The Hornady 480 Ruger factory shorties actually shoot better in my Ruger No.1 than the Hornady .475 Linebaugh factory loads. More uniform over the chronograph too. Maybe they are using LIL'GUN in the 480 Ruger and H110 in the .475 Linebaugh at the Hornady factory. Rip ... | |||
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RIP: Thanks for the POI info. | |||
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bobmn's question got me thinking that the 325-grainer loaded longer would also be worth trying to see if it will shoot to a useful POI, as a varmint load for use with the 475-grainer and 500-grainer. I expect I could just start with 36.5 grains of LIL'GUN and maybe get 2100 fps with the 325-grainer, work down or up from there to adjust the POI: SPLAT! A 400-grain "soft" at +2000 fps might be the energy champ, able to approach 4000 ft-lbs, easily exceeding 3500 ft-lbs. But 325-grainer, 475-grainer, and 500-grainers will easily exceed 3000 ft-lbs. Fun enough from a dwarf rifle. Shorten the LOP and it would suit Tyrion Lannister just fine. SUMMER IS COMING! Rip ... | |||
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RIP: Because you are developing loads without benefit of a transducer and "by the seat of my pants" I wanted to bring to your attention a rather obscure fact. While the Ruger #1 action is chambered in cartridges of a SAAMI max of 65,000 psi, the brass you are using has a SAAMI MAP of 50,000 psi. It just reminded me of the old balloon head cases in the 45 Colt. | |||
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bobmn, Thanks for bringing this up. Of course nobody uses those old balloon-head cases anymore like .45 Long Colt of yore. Hornady beefed up the .475 Linebaugh case head versus the .45-70 Govt. parent case. The .475 Linebaugh case head looks very similar to the way they make their .500 S&W case, which is SAAMI MAP-ed at 60,000 psi. Winchester makes their .45 Long Colt case head in a way that looks identical to their .454 Casull case head, which is SAAMI MAP-ed at 65,000 psi. I have sectioned all those cases plus a Starline .45-70 Govt. case just now. The Hornady .475 Linebaugh case head looks to be built stouter than the Winchester .454 Casull. I am not troubled at all with shooting my .475 Linebaugh LongCOL with non-SAAMI-approved loads, ASS-sessing pressures by the seat of my pants. Everything about this Mighty Mite seems to be perfect. Rip ... | |||
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I have only shot Hornady cases in 475 Linebaugh. In 480 Ruger I have used both Hornady and Starline. The Hornady cases weighed 141 grains and the Starline weighed 146 grains. I got sticky extraction with the Hornady cases but the fired Starline cases fell out of the 6 shot Redhawk (not Super Redhawk) revolver. | |||
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bobmn, Maybe you got a bad batch of Hornady 480 Ruger component brass from early production? Whatever it was, it seems to be corrected now. Empties from factory loads fired in my 480 Ruger revolver just fall out of the cylinder (Super Redhawk). It has the same head construction as the .475 Linebaugh shown above. I have bought Hornady component brass for the .475 Linebaugh as well as Hornady factory loads. Hornady is good stuff. On another note: I am now putting the Warne QD-Lever rings for Ruger integral bases in the same class as the Talley QD-Lever rings for CZ 550 Magnum: BUSTED!!! Back to OEM Ruger rings on Rugers, just like OEM CZ rings on CZs. I will post a picture of the BUSTED Warne after I get the Ruger rings back on the Mighty Mite, today. It was snowing and raining at the same time this AM, only raining now, and 38 F. Predicted 55 F and sun tomorrow, we'll see. I do have some .475 Linebaugh LongCOL loads to try. LIL'GUN and WLR primers for all loads. 325-grain XTP at 1.925" COL with 36.5 to 38.0 grains of powder. 500-grain B.O. at 2.375" COL with 30.5 to 32.5 grains of powder. Still flying by the seat of my pants. The WLR versus WLP: The WLR did improve standard deviations insignificantly (small sample sizes of 10 shots with each primer) and raised velocity reasonably little with the LIL'GUN powder, but raised velocity a lot with harder to ignite H110. I just hate unburnt powder in my rifle barrel after a shot, and I have yet to see the first sign of any excessive pressure, according to the seat of my pants. Going from 50,000 psi to 60,000 psi is what I am looking for, hoping not to show my arse. Rip ... | |||
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Cleaning the Mighty Mite and checking screws in preparation for the range tomorrow, I grabbed it by its scope and something did not feel right. I removed the scope and a little piece of metal dangled from beneath the front ring, a Warne QD-Lever, medium height, 1-Inch, Ruger-fitting ring. Re-enactment using actual parts: It fell off: There it is: I dislike vertically split rings. Period. Rip ... | |||
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The Mighty Mite is much better off now. The rings that came with it are a set of No.5 that would have put the scope almost 0.1" higher than the Warne mediums. No.4 Ruger-ring height puts the scope about 0.025" lower than the Warne mediums are. A matte grey/stainless set of No.4 is the best on hand for this short notice re-mounting of scope, and I don't think I could have done better, for cosmetic flair or function. My QD-QD-Lever for these rings will ride in my pants pocket. I placed clear silicone adhesive inside the degreased rings, and a little dab of grease on each screw before I torqued them. I will clean up any extruded silicone and grease, and carry a little Torx wrench with the Quick-Detachable-Quick-Detachable-Lever in my pocket. Check screws frequently. Rip ... | |||
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Since you don't want to go Quigley on us why not do a 2moa red dot sight backed up with a ghost ring? Make that a lively single shot without the scope bulk. That's what Tyrian would have wanted. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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boom stick, A red dot sight is certainly in the cards for this rifle, but right now I am having too much fun with the Nikon SlugHunter, now so perfectly attached to The Mighty Mite. Warmed up to 53 degrees F on 2-18-2018, no wind, and all the yahoos came out to shoot. Every shooting position was taken in the concrete-benched and tin-roofed areas. Even the 600-yard prone plywood position and the one uncovered, plywood bench next to it were taken when I got there. So I set up on a portable benchrest and just shot my bullets over a ProChrono at 5 yards and skipped them into the 300-yard berm. No paper targets, but I got what I wanted from the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL Ruger No.1 shown above after 27 shots, still in one rugged piece. Getting better all the time. (I chronographed the .458 Win.Mag. WinCzechster also today. It wears a SlugHunter too.) Here is another picture slightly different from the one posted on the .458 Win.Mag. thread: 20"-barreled Ruger No.1, unaltered factory .475 Linebaugh, 53 degrees F, all loads with LIL'GUN powder all primers were WLR, two different bullets, 3-shot average MV, corrected from 5-yards, and Sd in fps: 325-grain XTP at 1.925" COL LIL'GUN/WLR 36.5 grains >>> (3 fouling shots wasted initially) 37.0 grains >>> 2070 fps MV, Sd = 5 fps (3091.9 ft-lbs) 37.5 grains >>> 2105 fps MV, Sd = 10 fps 38.0 grains >>> 2149 fps MV, Sd = 10 fps (3332.4 ft-lbs) 500-grain Barnes Original at 2.375" COL LIL'GUN/WLR 30.5 grains >>> 1610 fps MV, Sd = 10 fps 31.0 grains >>> 1644 fps MV, Sd = 1 fps (A very uniform 3000.4 ft-lbs of KE at the muzzle.) 31.5 grains >>> 1661 fps MV, Sd = 10 fps 32.0 grains >>> 1673 fps MV, Sd = 4 fps 32.5 grains >>> 1690 fps MV, Sd = 3 fps (3170.6 ft-lbs of KE at the muzzle.) No pressure signs. Now I gotta do the 475-grain S&H brass FN at about 1800 fps? Then shoot'em all at paper at 100 yards and see where they go. This Mighty Mite mighty well be mighty enough for mighty near anything that the hunter might encounter. That is why it is called the Mighty Mite. Rip ... | |||
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