This factory ammo



has been fired in this 20"-barreled "rifle" that weighs 6#13oz dry:



The 480 Ruger factory ammo was also fired in a Ruger Super Redhawk with 7.5" barrel.

480 Ruger fired at 52 degrees F:
325-grain XTP factory load in 7.5" revolver >>> 1273 fps MV >>> 1169 ft-lbs KE
325-grain XTP factory load in 20" rifle >>> 1579 fps MV >>> 1799 ft-lbs KE
The rifle adds +300 fps (306 fps and 630 ft-lbs KE) to same factory ammo as fired in revolver.

Long COL loading of the 400 XTP bullet in the rifle increases the velocity to +500 fps over what the same bullet does in the .475 Linebaugh factory load with same rifle.

.475 Linebaugh at 52 degrees F, 20" rifle barrel:
400-grain XTP factory load, COL 1.745" >>> 1438 fps MV >>> 1836 ft-lbs KE
400-grain XTP LIL'GUN (36.5 grains), COL 2.075" >>> 1996 fps MV >>> 3538 ft-lbs KE

That is 558 fps faster and 1702 ft-lbs greater KE, almost double the muzzle energy.
And that is not an excessive or maxed-out handload.
A 400-grainer at +2100 fps, i.e., 450/400 NE muzzle energy, might be possible from this Mighty Mite.
Especially at tropical temperatures.

What I find most interesting is the .476"/516-grain cast bullet (gas-checked, powder-coated),
at LongCOL of 2.285".

H4198 is too slow for this bullet in the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL rifle.
But H4198 did get that bullet up to 1391 fps MV with 33.5 grains charge, WLP primer, 52 degrees F.
It did not start burning uniformly until around 33.0 and 33.5 grains, last loads I tried on initial workup.
I might start over with that powder and the WLR primer, instead of the WLP primer used so far,
but I doubt I am going to get where I want to go that way.

I am hoping to get that 516-grainer up to about 1650 fps with a faster powder.
AA-5744 is next trial, full case load,
working my way toward H110 on the burn chart,
and toward tropical heat.

Rip ...

I like that

Would those work in a little lever action carbine?

Fourtyonesix,
Thanks for the reply.

The .475 Linebaugh is a shortened .45-70 necked up to .475.
Even with loading it LongCOL it is still short! There ought to be plenty of lever actions to handle it.
But what pressure will the lever-action handle?
Pretty much "brass is the limiting factor" on the Mighty Mite.
There is a .500 S&W lever action out there.
I have a .500 S&W revolver and NEF Handi-rifle combo.
The lever action would add the third dimension to that plane,
as well as the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL.

Rip ...

Fourty: Rossi chambered a Win 92 clone in 480 Ruger. They also chamber a Win 92 clone in 454 Casull which I have used extensively. In a lever action you would have to stay within SAAMI specifications for pressure and cartridge overall length. RIP is achieving large velocity gains by increasing case capacity by seating bullets far over the SAAMI max OAL, These rounds will not feed in a lever action. You can pick up a few thousandths by filing the cartridge lifter. Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets on his website provides details. You can also increase case capacity a bit by using Wide Flat Nose bullets which gets more lead out of the case.
Regarding pressures RIP's loads are not pressure tested but I would bet that if you rechambered a 480 lever action rifle to 475 Linebaugh and single loaded RIP's long seated loads the lever action would be damaged. The only reason the Rossi was able to be chambered in 454 Casull was because when the 454 Casull was submitted to SAAMI for standardization the max pressure was reduced significantly from what Freedom Arms was loading in their factory ammo for the Model 83 revolver.
If you want a 470 caliber lever action rifle with the performance that RIP is getting you will need to talk to Turnbull. He makes Win 1886 and Marlin 95 sized cartridges.

One reason I find this topic interesting is because of my fascination for rifles and pistols chambered for the same round. For those of you developing loads for both, this is what Bob Baker of freedom arms has to say about Lilgun:
Flame cutting and Lilgun powder Bob Baker 08-20-2009 Greybeard Outdoors
We have seen numerous barrels damaged by using Lil Gun. According to customers, some had as few as 30 rounds using Lil Gun through them, some had several hundred. Before we figured out what was happening one customer had sent his gun in for a new barrel. Then 600 rounds later it came back for another new barrel.

A couple years ago we did a test with a M83, .357 Mag. using Hornady 180 gr. bullets. We loaded 50 rds. of three different loads. One was a heavy H-110 load and the other two both used Lil Gun in different quantities.

We fired the H-110 loads first, then cut off the threaded end of the barrel. Rethreaded the barrel and shot one of the Lil Gun loads then rethreaded the barrel and shot the last Lil Gun load.

We found even the light load of Lil Gun caused the gun to get extremely hot. The heavy Lil Gun load had the gun so hot the only place we could touch the gun was on the grips and they were very hot.

Under magnification the surface appeared to have heated to a point of flowing using the Lil Gun loads and the heavy load was worse than the light load. This is probably due to Lil Gun having about 10% more nitro glycerin in it than H-110.

bobmm,

Thanks for adding all that, much food for thought.

https://www.turnbullrestoratio...lReloadingData_3.pdf


Illustration courtesy of Turnbull Mfg.

.475 Turnbull ... Illustration courtesy of Cor-Bon.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/470_475_turnbull.htm

Here are the claimed muzzle velocity (MV) and muzzle energy (ME) for the two cartridges from 26" barrels:

.475 Turnbull:
350 grain bullet - MV 2300 fps; ME 4110 ft. lbs.
400 grain bullet - MV 2150 fps; ME 4104 ft. lbs.
450 grain bullet - MV 2050 fps; ME 4198 ft. lbs.
500 grain bullet - MV 1900 fps; ME 4007 ft. lbs.

.470 Turnbull:
350 grain bullet - MV 2010 fps; ME 3140 ft. lbs.
400 grain bullet - MV 1850 fps; ME 3040 ft. lbs.
450 grain bullet - MV 1725 fps; ME 2973 ft. lbs.

That 470 Turnbull is meant for Marlin 1895 pressure limits and COL limits.
And they say those velocities were with 26" barrels!

The .475 Linebaugh LongCOL Ruger No.1 with 20" barrel easily beats those 470 Turnbull loads in a Marlin 1895 with 26" barrel.
Quite a huge advantage to Mighty Mite,
if LIL'GUN doesn't melt the barrel.
Good thing it is a single-shot to slow down my rate of fire.

Onward to lower-nitroglycerin-content-than-LIL'GUN for the 516-grainers.

Rip ...

Dang, Belt Mountain .475-cal Punch bullet is now a 380-grainer instead of a 400-grainer.

And Hornady is saving the .475/400-grain XTP for factory loads only, or what?
They advertize only the 325-grainer as a component bullet now.

Jeff Quinn ( www.gunblast.com ) load with .475/400-grain Belt Mountain Punch bullet, designed specifically for this rifle:
"Start with 35 grains H110 ..."
... with 40 grains of H110 ... 2034 fps showing on chrono ...
his max load.
He said he went about 150 fps faster, but that was an unsafe load in the Mighty Mite.

I gotta try H110 with the 400-grain XTP now, while my supply lasts, loaded to 2.075" COL, starting with 35.0 grains H110.

But I have an unlimited supply of 516-grain cast bullets.
AA-5744 is next with the 516-grain home-made boolit.
Working my way toward H110 with that one too.

Rip ...

I got it licked now, strictly 500-grains or heavier:



Rummaging in the garage I found my stash of 470 NE bullets.
I have 500 of the old Barnes Original 500-grainers,
sold off to me from a dead man's widow.
She did not plan to handload for his 470 NE DR.
Also included several boxes of Woodleigh FMJ and Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammer Solids, and a single 50-count box of B.E.L.L. "Steel-Jacketed-Nickel-Plated-Copper-Banded Solids."
The B.E.L.L. solids have a sort of pointed roundnose.
Ought to tumble reliably after impact.
I'll save those for special purposes.
Worn in an ammo belt they might serve as a vampire repellant.
They do shine like silver.

Rip ...

quote:

She did not plan to handload for his 470 NE DR.

LOL . . . classic repartee!

Would be a fun short action thumper in a bolt gun too
475-284 1.6?

boom stick: For a Mighty Mite bolt-action I would have to do a belted ".475 American Sub-2-Inch."
whelenite: Donkey, buy a donkey.

Rip ...

Nah!
Headspace off the extractor.
Use 284 brass and 475 Linebaugh dies and reamer. Push those boolits out far and you have a bolt action Bam Bam stick.

Jackelope on
The stubbie 475 pistola round on the belted case is the 480 Jolly Roger

Jackelope off

I sorted out 30 of the cast bullets that weigh 519-grains +/- 1.0 grain, includes powder-coat and gas-check.

So, these nominal 519-grainers will be loaded with AA-5744,
29.5 grains to 34.0 grains,
3 shots for each 0.5-grain increment.
WLP primer.
COL 2.285".

Even if that gives enough BAM-BAM in the MV,
H110 is next.
Gotta try H110 with the 500-grainers like the old Barnes Original soft and the B.E.L.L. FMJRN.

Rip ...

54 degrees F and wind pretty steady at about 25 mph,
gusts over 45 mph.
At least the mud was dry.
I hung a sandbag beneath the center of the ProChrono tripod, no diffusers/screens, sensors looked at the clouds, shooting between the steel wire screen supports.
The ProChrono still blew over, crashed onto its side, twice.
It took a lickin' and kept on tickin'.
I moved the hanging sandbag to the upwind leg, and piled more sandbags and rocks around that tripod leg.
It worked. I continued shooting when the wind was steady.

Not enough Bam-Bam in AA-5744.
I had to wipe unburnt powder out of the barrel after each shot.
Sometimes the next round could not be chambered due to unburnt AA-5744 lying in the throat.

Nevertheless, the AA-5744 did deliver some uniformity of readings, between 31.5 grains and 32.5 grains:

3-shot standard deviations, and average MV produced with 519-grainer:
31.5 grains >>> 4 fps Sd, 1470 fps MV
32.0 grains >>> 7 fps Sd, 1484 fps MV
32.5 grains >>> 2 fps Sd, 1501 fps MV

Most accurate 3-shot group at 50 yards:



Heaviest charge tried was 34.0 grains:



33.5 grains >>> 21 fps Sd, 1544 fps MV
34.0 grains >>> 8 fps Sd, 1543 fps MV


I have set aside my sixty best cast bullets of the first batch, they are 517-grains +/- 1 grain.
I won't be mixing the alloy in the bullet-pouring pot henceforth.
I will pour ingots from the mixing pot, and pour bullets from the melted and mixed ingots.

I am going to explore the H110 loading with 500-grain jacketed, then apply what I learn from that, to the cast boolits.

Will use the .475/500-grain Barnes Originals with H110,
before I waste anymore cast bullets.
I'm so excited!


Rip ...

More excitement here:

I found a stash of 475-grain/.475-cal FN brass solids. I had "misfiled" those bullets with my .505-caliber bullets.
The band structure is perfect for .475 LongCOL loading.
S&H bullets are as good as it gets for precision.

SD of 475-grain bullet of .475-caliber = 0.301

That is going to be a way-better straight-line penetrator than the 500-grain, pointy-roundnose, B.E.L.L. FMJ tumbler.

Next up: H110 with 475-grain brass FN and 500-grain RNSP:
I'll use the WLP primer for starters.
Then the WLR primer will be tried if any unburnt powder clogs the throat.

Rip ...

The soon to be perfected combo for the Mighty Mite, dummies of dangerous-game bullets,
or dangerous-game bullets for dummies.
Please forgive me, y'all, I could not resist.



That pair of bullets:
I would love to test their penetration at various velocities to
+2700 fps in 470 Mbogo.
The last time I fired the .475/500-grain Barnes Original in the 470 Mbogo (2003 AD)
115.0 grains of RL-15 gave 2685 fps in a 25" barrel.


(Gee, I gotta restock that rifle!)

That was not a maximum load in the 470 Mbogo, and 1 more grain of powder would likely have gotten it past 2700 fps.
But I chickened out.
I reckon the .475/475-gr S&H FN will do over 2800 fps,
if I don't chicken out again.
At 2800 fps, the brass nose on the FN will expand slightly when smacking water on entry into the IronWaterBoardBuffalo.
I have seen it happen with the .395/330-grain S&H FN at 2800 fps from the .395 Tatanka.
But I digress, though not quite a jackaloping here.
The .475 Linebaugh LongCOL at 1600 fps with 475-grain FN solid will be the start of the velocity continuum.
1600 fps might be optimal for the Barnes Original on game at close range.
At 2700 fps it would probably turn inside-out.

Rip ...

RIP: Did you have to lengthen the chamber throat to chamber the LongCOL cartridges?

I just realized that this is pretty much the 475 Wildey Magnum and you can buy brass for it already. It just needs a handy short or super short action to fit in.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Nah!
Headspace off the extractor.
Use 284 brass and 475 Linebaugh dies and reamer. Push those boolits out far and you have a bolt action Bam Bam stick.

quote:

Originally posted by bobmn:
RIP: Did you have to lengthen the chamber throat to chamber the LongCOL cartridges?

bobmn,

Nosirree. It is a standard SAAMI .475 Linebaugh factory chambering by Ruger for the No.1-S rifle.

If you look at the revolver, each chamber in the cylinder is cut 1.4070" length from breech face for tolerance of the maximum brass length of 1.400".
Then there is a 30-degree chamfer down to Parallel-Sided-Free-Bore of 0.4755" diameter.
This PSFB runs to the end of the cylinder, and that total length is 1.765" from breech face.
That is the maximum COL for the revolver cartridge, of course.

On the other side of the cylinder gap, at barrel face, there is a small segment of 5-degree leade,
and this tapers across the cylinder gap,
into the barrel face where .475" groove diameter starts.

Those chamber and groove dimensions are the minimums, so the factory rifle may exceed those slightly.
But even with minimums, there will be at least 0.365" of throat jump from case mouth to end of PSFB in the rifle (1.765" - 1.400" = 0.365"),
or into the cylinder gap of the revolver.
Then add the tiny bit of leade for total, effective throat length.

With the plus tolerances allowed, effective throat length/throat jump from case mouth to .475" bullet diameter in the grooves is greater.

Using the "Slug & Rod" method I have found my Ruger No.1 throat jump to be 0.425".

So I can have full diameter bullet sticking out 0.425" from case mouth if brass case is maximum length of 1.400".

My S&H brass FN 475-grain "Dinosaur Slayer," loaded at 2.435" COL, makes it with 0.025" to spare.
I could load it to 2.460" to touch the lands.

Rip ...

boom stick,

You will have to make one longer than the 1.198" .475 Wildey.
The .475 Linebaugh beats the .475 Wildey by about 19% on gross case capacity.

You are not going to tempt me into another wildcat.
I have sworn off of them ... unless I decide to do a .475/.408 Chey-Tac
when time-travel dinosaur hunting becomes possible.

If I could get a .475-cal/475-grain brass FN faster than 2800 fps MV, that would be comforting.

I would need a hardened nose on that bullet, to prevent expansion at high impact speed.

A proper steel-nosed BBW#13 shape with brass or copper driving bands?

Jim Bell put copper drive bands on a nickel-plated, steel-jacketed, lead-cored, RN, FMJ solid.
It must be possible to do something like that with the proper nose shape.

Here is my other LongCOL project, besides the famous/infamous .458 Winchester Magnum Longclaw:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Action and wood for the 62-240, barrel for 40-90:



VC barrel came from Ed Hubel:



To Sir Samuel "Quigley" Baker then:

The .475 Linebaugh is more fun to actually shoot than those other two.

Rip ...

Impressive work

I have seen artillery shells with bands of copper on the base for rifling engagement and to work as an ass gasket. Here is an example of a wide band but I have seen multiple thin ones. Heat some copper tubing to pressure fit onto a steel projectile and voila! ER um Bam!!! Bam!!!
1/2" copper plumbing pipe OD .625" ID .527". You can practice making projectiles for your 600 bore pets. Maybe try pouring lead into a 1/2" pipe and cut it into sections for bullets? Sweat on a cap on one end and filler' up!
This one may be more useful. 3/8" pipe, .500" OD .402" ID for your .500" pets. Lead or steel core?
Hacksaw your own bullets

The Jackelope rides again!

RIP: Thanks for the actual dimensions of your chamber and throat. I looked at the SAAMI Chamber drawing but it showed no length of the throat. However, the pressure barrel drawing does show an overall dimension of 1.7960 from breech face to the vent. If you subtract 1.4318 from breech face to end of 30 degree leade it equals 0.3642. If this freebore is filled with bullet, how do you think it affects the 50,000 psi pressure limit? I realize the Ruger #1 is a very stout action but I am thinking in terms of weaker actions. Thanks.

p dog shooter,

Donkey, buy a donkey.

Rip ...

bobmn,

Even if you are filling up the free-bore with bullet, you are letting pressure off by increasing the net case capacity about 49%.
That example is with the 400-grain XTP bullet loaded to 2.075", versus the factory load COL.

The pressures I am wanting to get to will need to be around 60K psi, and the Ruger No.1 can certainly handle that.
I wish I could measure the pressures, but the seat of my pants is not equipped for that.
If you had a .475 LongCOL lever-action rifle, you would have to see what you could get away with.
That would be pretty neat, even in a Marlin 1895 with 44,000 PSI limit,
You could still use 480 Ruger "shorts" in a pinch,
in any of the .475 Linebaugh revolver-carbine combos.

Or get one of those Bighorn Armory Model 89 rifles in .500 S&W if you want more power for your handgun-rifle combo?
That would be a dandy to re-barrel to .475 Linebaugh.

I have decided to go whole hog with the H110: Use the WLR primer instead of WLP.
No erratic ignition need apply here.
I will start with 30.0 grains of H110 with the 475-grain brass FN and work up in 0.5 grain increments.
Then do the same with the 500-grain Barnes Original.
That B.O. bullet may be a stinker at 2700 fps in the 470 Mbogo,
but it should turn into a daisy at just over 1600 fps MV.
It is a non-bonded, RNSP with 0.049" copper jacket thickness and soft lead core, and a pinhole in the center of the bullet base.

Rip ...

boom stick,

Thanks for the tip on the copper tubing.
The .625" O.D. filled with lead might make a nice pill for the 62-240 Sharps Straight.
Fill a yard of pipe with lead and chop it up with a hacksaw.
Adjust weight of bullet by distance between hacksaw cuts.
Shape the points on an anvil with a sledge hammer.
Run them through a 20-gauge sizer.
Presto. Precision bam bam.

Rip ...

It will be a fun project. You can use a pipe cutter to cut lengths more precisely. The tubing will control expansion pretty good. If you cut off the front portion of the pipe and expose the lead it will act like a mushrooming soft projectile for lower impact velocities. Again the pipe cutter will help with that. You can also make a custom bullet mold to fit the individual pipe sections and have a nose profile of choice.
Bubba Plumber bullets!

If you have a smooth shaft mold with a step where the nose/shaft juncture is with the nose profile of your choosing and you can add pipe or not for a thick jacketed bullet or a pure cast bullet. I think a lighter, high velocity bullet is desirable. Cast your own 3k FPS bullets for your big boomers. Yes, might want to stop at the hardware store for some pipe and a fresh hacksaw blade to play with them first. "Hacksaw Bullet Works". Perfect for bullet hacks Them squirrels won't know what hit em'! Just a big round hole in them like you see in cartoons.

RIP, no need for LRP primers with H/110/296 in fact they can over ignight the powder increasing pressure as much as 10,000 PSI without a corresponding increase in velocity.

At least this is what I was told by John Linebaugh.

Rip,
I was at a gunshow yesterday, stopped at a table of ....stuff.
In amongst the half boxes of this and that were a couple boxes of Hornady custom .480 Ruger.
I looked for a price, and the old gent went on a story of how he bought them from a fellow that morning. "He worked for Ruger when they were developing the .480, they were going to name it the .475 Ruger. They then didn't want it confused with the Linebaugh round, so renamed it .480"
He opened the box and showed me the headstamps, they say .475 Ruger! So, some brass was already made. The fellow was handed a bunch of the ammo and told to get it out of there ( or walked off with it, who knows)
Anyway, at $20 a box it was about what I paid for brass. I hate to re-stamp my Rossi 92 475 Ruger though.

jwp475,

Okey-dokey. It might be wise to start with the WLP instead of the WLR with H110.
Thanks for the input.
Maybe the Hornady manual has a typo, they showed WLR used in the .475 Linebaugh.

Rip ...

theback40,

Thanks for that interesting bit of trivia about the ".475 Ruger" coming to be named the "480 Ruger."
The 480 Ruger is to the .475 Linebaugh
as the 38 Special is to the .357 Magnum.

Rip ...

Rip,the same 480 ammo you show, gave me 1705 fps average in my Rossi 92 20" barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Rip,the same 480 ammo you show, gave me 1705 fps average in my Rossi 92 20" barrel.

OK, your velocity finding with the 480 Ruger factory ammo is as expected..
With 325 XTP you got 1705 fps from a 20"-barreled 480 Ruger.
You would not have the pressure loss that I do with shooting the 480 Ruger in a .475 Linebaugh 20-inch rifle.
Mine has 0.2" more throat jump just from the shorter brass of the 480 Ruger, let alone any other differences in throating between the two
chambers.

I got 1579 fps at 52 degrees F.
You got 1705 fps at what temperature?

Besides my longer chamber, do we have a temperature difference in this comparison?

In the Super Redhawk with 7.5" barrel and cylinder gap, at 52 degrees F I got 1273 fps,
though that factory ammo spec is claimed to be 1350 fps.
Factory ammo spec was probably determined at a temperature around 70 degrees F, in a 7.5" revolver (?).

I believe the handgun powders are pretty temperature sensitive, compared to the ThermoBallistic Independence of some rifle powders.

Rip ...

Regrouping here:

I am going to load 10 shots each of the 500-grain RNSP B.O. bullets, in the .475 Linebaugh LongCOL,
with WLP primer and WLR primer.
Both primers with 30.0 grains of H110.
Will see if there is much difference in velocity.
I want my starting load pressures in the Ruger No.1 to be about like maximum revolver loads.

With nearly 50% case capacity increase by LongCOL loading,
and with a lot longer barrel to burn the powder,
or not burn the powder,
than in a revolver,
this rifle's needs are different from those of a revolver.
(Captain Obvious)

Rip ...

About H110 (and ditto W296), a reply to Mike Haas at ammoguide.com, "straight from the Hodgdon's mouth" as Mike said:


"We certainly did warn of reducing H110 max loads by more than 3% in the past. I have looked through the latest publications and have found that you are absolutely correct, the 3% warning is gone.

The nature of this warning is actually exactly the opposite of what most shooters/reloaders think. You will never get into high pressure problems by reducing the H110 loads more than 3% but, H110 is a true magnum powder. It wants magnum primers, heavy bullets, heavy crimps and heavy charge weights and proper pressures within the case to work properly. When H110 is reduced too much (as in more than 3%) below the listed Max load (unless the starting load is tested in the lab and shown) the pressure drops off exponentially causing a low pressure environment in the case. Without proper pressure, the flame will not be able to support the combustion of the magnum powder and the powder charge will quit burning leaving a bullet lodged in the barrel and a great deal of unburned powder.

So, I will check in with the man in charge of our manuals to bring this to his attention when he returns from the SHOT Show next week. Thank you for pointing this out to us."

I been checkin' my barrel after each shot anyway, looking for unburnt powder.

Rip ...

RIP: The other warning that appeared in the Winchester loading pamphlet that is no longer in the Hodgdon loading information concerns primers. It said that magnum pistol primers were required for W296 powder, especially in cold weather. It further said that Winchester Large pistol primers were considered magnum primers.
I fired some 480 Ruger loads at around 10* F loaded with Wolf large pistol primers. Hang fires, squib loads, lots of unburned powder and 1 stuck bullet resulted. Load worked ok in warmer temperatures.

RIP, with H-110/296 fill to the base of the bullet, leave no air space. You can work up a bit from there. But that will be a good place to start