The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 475 TurnbullGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Have been playing with a new cartridge the 475 Turnbull. It is a 50-110 case shortened .200" and necked down to 475 cal.. Have about 12 different bullets for it and will have a Barnes 375 TS and solid for it too. Shooting the 375 TS custom up around 2500 FPS. SHot lots of animals this fall and it is working great. Have dies brass bullets for it too. I tend to use more than enough gun. | ||
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Welcome Doug, I assume this is in one of your lever actions? Would love to see some photos and hear more details. ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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We are honored that you are here. Post details when you get a chance. regards, Rich DRSS Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost... | |||
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The winchester, Browning 1886 and the Winchester or Brownongn71 can all be used for the conversion. Doug I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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Mr turnbull... Been an admirer of your work and taste in guns and craftsmanship  What do you think you could do with a 500 grainer in velocity??? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I have 4 to use Woodliegh, A Frame, Speer solid and SP. We have been shooting them with out problems at 1900 FPS. After that they recoil gets a bit heavy. Just like it does with any thing sent that fast. There are at least 4 hard cast 370-425 on the market. Two of the Barnes 375 TS and Solid that I will have made. Four of the 500 grains 3 SP 1 Solid. North Fork 420 gr flat and cup solids. We also had RCBS make a mold that weighs about 480 grains that can have a gas check put on it. I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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Doug, www.customcastbulles.com has a woodligh ish profile .475 with a GC that turns out a hair over 500gr a group of us went in on it, for the 470 AR, 470mbogo and 470 NE jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I believe that they should work also. Doug I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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have you ever tried altering the gun to max out the oal for lower preasure or better heavy throwing? The 50 Kodiak Express is similar but in a marlin and is doing good numbers. It is not for everyone I know. Glad to have you here  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Here is a link for pics of the african hunt I did this fall. http://turnbullrestoration.com/output/africa2007/index.html Doug I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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Great specimens! The zebra is beautiful. Love warties... So bullets from a lever gun DONT bounce off buff  Thanks for sharing!  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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As always, there is reasonable pressure to consider, keeping with in a recommended pressures for the action you are using, a bullet that is put in the right place is much better than one that is a miss. So velocity and how fast can you shoot a bullet is not as important than one in the boiler! The OAL of the Speer is at the max. So yes I have played with the OAL of the cartridge, as well as the neck and how much you might blow it out/ powder capacity. I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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This was an idea to try to get 400 grain 458 bullets @ 2500 fps and still be able to use factory 45-70 ammo...and the Browning would be good for this. I was advised to increase the taper...  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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well it looks like the 475 Turnbull is a winner  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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The neck is .465 long. It does not make any sense to shorten the neck as the bullet of the 375 and 500 goes down past the neck and there is no more room for the powder. The only advantage is for a really light bullet but then you can't use the longer and hold onto to it really well. The crimp falls in the right place having it where it is so this seems to be best of both worlds. I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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Welcome to AR, Doug.... I enjoy looking at/drooling over your masterpieces! My question for you is: Would the Siamese Mauser handle the 475? I think that would make a nice little toy. Thanks, LeRoy. | |||
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Welcome to AR, Doug. Your rifles are truely works of art. Your .475 is very similar to the 450/110 Dave Clay developed but he uses a 2.4 inch case. Dave built me one on a new production Winchester. Funny thing, I recall mentioning to Dave one time that a .475 on the 50/110 case would be pretty neat but it never happened till now. I'm curious as to you are limiting pressure to. I have pushed a 460 Grain Cast Performance bullet to 2230 fps and a 420 grain bullet to 2400 with no pressure signs. The 420 grain load was worked up by Tim Sundles. Tim claims 2150 with a 525 grain Beartooth Bullet. Your comments would be appreciated. Jeff Collins The true measure of a hunters skill is not the size of the trophy but rather the length of the shot with the greater measure of skill being the shorter shot---Jeff Cooper | |||
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Hi Doug, welcome! boom stick is a great guy! ( we just gotta get him off of caffeine & sugar, or greatly reduce his daily intake) He is also an unabashed supporter of lever rifles. He's going to give you quite a few ideas on cartridges to consider. | |||
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you forgot handsome, dashing and briliant  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Welcome Doug! Congratulations on your safari! I have admired your restorations and case coloring for many years! Your case coloring is the best I have seen. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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The 375 Barnes I figure at 2550 is running at about 40,000 #s The 86 action is rated to about 42,000# no one has really determind what it is rated for sure, at the 2550 velocity it kicks, just like the TIm sundles load at 525 at 2150. It is not for the person that is recoil sensity at those velocities. Yes you can run them hotter but there is a cause and effect and how good is the shooter with a gun that kick the snot out of you. I would rather knock it down a bit use a premium bullet designed for the target and let the bullet placment do the job for me! I plan on doing some actual pressure tests to see for sure where it is. At this time I am going off case head expansion, thou, this is a fairly accurate test. I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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There is no reason that it can not be put into a bolt action and then you more bullets to chose from too. I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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They show that the Ft/lb energy is a bit over 5000 ft/lbs as is the 375 gr Turnbull at 2550 so we are both in the same ball park. Again it is not a plesent gun to shoot at those ft/lb of energy by the average shooter. SHOT PLACEMENT!!! I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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I will answer this before it is asked. I have reloading dies that will be here at the end of the month. Both RCBS and Hornady. Cases are made from 50-110 brass, Starline will be making brass for me and I have Quality Cartidge making some for the intrim time. They are both getting my 475 Turnbull head stamp on them. Barnes bullets, I hope in 90 days. I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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Welcome to the forums Doug. I have admired your work from afar for years. You are a true artist. Cheers, Andy | |||
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Hi Doug and welcome top the forums also. That is one very nice looking rifle and it's apparent that it is working very well. I'm happy to see that you've picked .475 caliber and are having some lighter bullets made for it. I'm really fond of the caliber myself. I hope that I'm not mistaken in assuming you are having Barnes do a run of 375 grain TSX's. The metal work on your rifle is very very nice indeed. In photo #8 of your Safari pictures I take it your trip was with Mark Sullivan. It looks like you had a great trip and did some very good shooting. Welcome aboard. Take good care, Dave | |||
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Yes I will be having Barness do a run of the 375gr TS and solids that will work in a magazine tube fed rifles. Yep Mark Sullivan was my PH in Tanzania. I shot the 2 buffalo from the same heard. Started the first one at 120 yrds, the group "charged" down hill till they saw us and vered off. With two more shots at 50 yrds he was down. Then at 75 yrds I picked up the other large bull and shot him 4 times out to 150 yrds where I broke his hind quarter. Walking up to 10 yrds where he started to get up on his 3 good legs to charge us and finished him with a shot to the brain. This all took place in less than a minute. Lever guns and mag tubes work great. Nine shots in a very short time and two 41" bulls to prove it. Great time and hunt!! Using 420 N Fork and A Frames did a great job for me. Really impressed Mark with how the gun operated in this situation. Looking forward to going back it is a really great time over there. I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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Sounds like you had fun. It's amazing how fast things can happen and how quickly you can get involved and then all of a sudden your out of tags. Your camp looked pretty comfortable also. Did you manage to recover any of your bullets or find out what kind of penetration you had. I'm just curious because of the lower sectional density of the 375 grain bullets along with the velocity. My cartridge shoots a 500 grain bullet at 2500 fps and is very comfortable in a 10.5 lb rifle. The penetration with the 500 grain bullet at this velocity is very good. I would guess your rifle weighs in at about 7.75 to 8 lbs?Take good care, Dave | |||
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My gun is a 9.5 # and very comfortable to shoot. The solids would shoot through and the soft points mushroomed very well. Shot some of the Barnes TS into the body and retrieved them opened to .900 cal with very comsistent petal expansion. Sounds like your rifle will really put a stomping on things. I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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Hi Doug With the 470 Mbogo I had a 500 grain Swift penetrate from the brisket through to the last four inches of the hind quarters. The bullet measured .875 across. My buddy Canuck had a 500 grain Bridger solid penetrate from the brisket through to the last 2 inches of the hind quarters but it took out a foot of spine on the way through. Your gun must be very solidly built to come in at 9.5 lbs. The 50 cal barrel must add a fair bit to it. Big bore lever action rifle have always intrigued me. I've often thought about re-doing my 45-70 into a 50 Alaskan. My other buddy had a 348 Win in a model 71 that I keep talking to him about. I have quite a few big boomers at the moment and a bunch of projects as well so I haven't moved on the model 71 yet. There are some videos up on my site you might be interested in. Take good care, Dave | |||
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Great photos and intriguing new cartridge. You would need to get up to 475 grains in bullet weight to get to the classic DG benchmark of .300 sectional density. What kind of velocity do you think you could get with such a bullet? BTW, never leave your hat on the bed like that! Especially not on a DG hunt! Don't you know it's bad luck? Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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The fat shotgun style butt with a kick-eze pad on my extra-lite weight 86 makes quite a difference. An 11 oz mercury recoil reducer glassed in the butt stock helps out even more. I had the opportunity to shoot the same loads in my rifle along side Sundles which has the narrow Cresent style butt with a kick-eze pad added and the difference in felt recoil was significant. Sundles rifle just plain hurt more!!! The true measure of a hunters skill is not the size of the trophy but rather the length of the shot with the greater measure of skill being the shorter shot---Jeff Cooper | |||
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The 375 Barnes is 1.100" long and the 500 gr. Speer are 1.300 + long I know the Speer are over .300 SD and closer to .330 and I think the 375 Barnes are very close to it too, that is .300 Yes, a rubber pad really helps as I to have shot the heavier loads with a cresent butt plate and they hurt. I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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.475 SDs 500 gr = .316 450 gr = .285 400 gr = .253 375 gr = .237 | |||
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And: 475 gr = .301 Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Welcome to the forum. We can use your expertise. That is a great looking rifle but don’t you need something with a little more stopping power for those vicious guinea hens??? Great shot. So much for those who don’t think you can use a lever gun on dangerous game.  Bill Member DSC,DRSS,NRA,TSRA A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. -Mark Twain There ought to be one day - just one – when there is open season on Congressmen. ~Will Rogers~ | |||
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I checked with Barnes this morning and this is the result for there bullet. .475" 275gr XPB: BC=.155, SD=.174 .474" 500gr TSX: BC=.363, SD=.318 .475" 375gr MZ: BC=.273, SD=.237 The numbers I had given were not right and I was thinking BC not SD. Mikes numbers are correct and I stand educated. Thanks Mike I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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welcome to the forums... i've been admiring your case-coloring/hardening abilites for quite some time....the .475 looks like a winner...  go big or go home ........ DSC-- Life Member NRA--Life member DRSS--9.3x74 r Chapuis | |||
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SD = [(bullet weight in grains)/(7000 grains per pound)]/(square of bullet diameter in inches) 500-grain .475-caliber bullet: SD = [500/7000]/(.475 x .475) = 0.3165804 = 0.317 After that a proportionality may be used for any bullet weight in that caliber. 275-grain SD = .3165804 x (275/500) = 0.1741192 = .174 375-grain SD = .3165804 x (375/500) = 0.2374353 = .237 475-grain SD = .3165804 x (475/500) = 0.3007513 = .301 That is where a .475 caliber bullet gets numerologically interesting: 475 grains of .475 caliber of SD .301. Anyone care for a 474-grainer .475 bullet with SD even closer to the magical .300? 474-grain SD = 474/7000/.475/.475 = 0.3001183 = .300 But some double rifles need a .474 caliber bullet: SD of .474"/474-grain bullet = 474/7000/.474/.474 = 0.3013858 = .301 SD of .474"/500-grain bullet = 500/7000/.474/.474 = 0.3179177 = .318 See how easy the old square bullet convention is? And it is even proportional to reality! | |||
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NFMIKE built me some .475 450grain bullets that I used in Africa. Worked great the real problem, if that is what you want to call it is they are longer and the crimp groove needs to be in a spot that makes it hard to feed with out extra machining to an 86,71. They can be made to work and maybe if I had them altered I may be able to get them to work like the other bullets-lead. I have not really tried that hard. The OAL on the copper bullets make them really set down into the case a long way. I think that with some relooking at it that I could get the NF bullet to work in the 450-475gr range and get about 2100 fps out of it. NFMike, if the nose is like the A Frame or Woodleigh and the crimp groove is in the same place as those 2 bullets, how long OAL would it be? 475 grain I tend to use more than enough gun. | |||
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