73 days from concept to BOOMBOOM!!

Went up to Hog Killer's Place today with some fireforming loads for the 416 and 458 AR. We then trimmed the 458 to allow for a perfect 3.35oal with hornady 500gr RN interbond/lock/joke/whatever they are really called.

First, on the Rifles

The one on the left is Frank's 416 AR on a Tang safety Ruger 77... the scope it my range mule, not not not Frank's bad tastes... it is one of those things you trade into on a gun, and no one will give you 5 bucks for! 26" AB barrel

on the right is an EXCELLENT 1938 VZ-24 that fla30-06 gave me. He's a great guy, and the action is excellent. 22" parker hale 458winmag takeoff barrel


And here's a web site that has all the pics --these are thumbnails, so even dial up can see this.

http://www.weaponsmith.com/AR-rounds1.html

The 458, AFTER being trimmed, has a case capacity of 112.1 gr h20 ... and that was NOT fully puffed out. We measured a hornady 458 lott, and it was 108.2 gr. Since the bullet sits to the crimp on both, the volume lost is identical.

We first fire formed, then trimmed the 458, tested some loads, including a darn good lott load, over the chrono (no "data" will be posted, YET) ... This gave us 2144 (yes, i know someone will say "winmag" ..read on) , and what looked like very low pressure. And I mean very low, and from a 22" barrel.

the projected 2200 is easily within reach, even with a 2" too short barrel.

Sorry, Didn't chrono the 416, as,well, it IS Christmas Eve and the family would like to see me some.

But, as nice a present as a man could ask for, shooting TWO wildcats he and a friend invented, with one of his best friends!!!

jeffe

Thanks for the report. Keep up the good work!

Jeffe, had a great time today working with the AR rounds. It's fun reloading without factory dies, using whats on hand. Makes you think, what will get this job done.

The rounds show lots of promise, for full big bore performance in a std lenght action.

Hog Killer

ps: I agree this was a great way to spend the holiday.

Great job, Jeffe! They look excellent!

Again I thank you for your work and dedication. I look forward to converting one of my rifles to either 458 or 416.

So, how long did the cases come out to be, trimmed for cannelure?

Excellent!! Well done jeffe!! From paper to powder burning!! That is why wildcatting will never die.

Simply imperial Jeffe! Can't wait to see full load workups. Dang, that VZ looks like it will make a workhorse.

Looked at the pics. Amazing how that .458 AR looks like its the little brother of the .500 Jeffrey.

Jeffe,

Looks like a fun way to wait for Christmas dinner to get ready. But I'll bet you got stuck with the dishes.

What stock did you use on the .458?

Many Thanks,
I couldn't have done this without ya'll, Paul H, Hog Killer, Tiggertate, FLA3006, RNS, Gringo Cazador, RGB, 470mbogo, all the rest of the bubbas, and my ever loving wife!

BB,
they are both 2.55 cases, .1 shorter than planned. With bullets in them, to 3.35, both the 416 and 458 are SLIGHTLY larger capacity than the 416 rem and 458 lott - about 2%. I would assume the 470 will have about the same as the capstick.

All,
of the current set made, obviously the 458, with the short barrel, shouldn't match the 458 lott, but it WILL make the targeted 2200.

The VZ will get a new front insert, botl turned down, generally cleaned up, and then I'll take the mule stock and turn into a fair piece of turkish.

Bill
The stock is a slightly modified boyds JRS. The forearm is 1.75" too long for that barrel, but it's my mule, so it will see everything from 550 express to, well, 338 something or other.

Funny, I thought exactly the same thing, that it really looks like a 500 jeffe

366,
these are the ones the Hogkiller makes fun of me on.. that I designed something with less than 100 lb-ft of recoil.


Rick,
Had HK and his wonderful mother over for Dinner... excellent company.


BTW, making the 416 brass is funny... take a lyman rigby die set, grind/turn off about .25" ... round the inner corner...

lube the neck.. tap tap tap BANG slam the press handle home, hold for a couple seconds to let the brass get a new "memory" pull out and trim. heh, i use my lathe for fast/gross/rough trimming, leaving ~.01 to clean up.

Yep, a 2.55case, 3.35 oal, will feed from mags, shouldn't be too huge a feeding rework, and easily runs with the 416 rigby and 450 #2.

Oh, incidentially... necked up a 458 to 470... it'll work just fine

jeffe

Sounds like you all had some fun time today. I am anxious to see some of the final data and information.
I have stocked up on my old RUM brass and about 50 pieces of new. If enough people get into this maybe we can have a special run made for headstamped brass as well.
Frank

sounds like everything might work out with teh 470, kickass. I just acquired a Mod70 Super grade, it is gonna be difficult not to purchase another barrel for it...

Very cool how fast this turned around. Gotta hand it to you.
Be interesting after all to see how it stacks up volume/speed wise with the Vincent Short and other similars.
Glad to hear the 470 is coming. Something about that caliber - just cool.

Jeffe- Way to go Buddy! I'm very interested to see how the .470 turns out. That should get lots of interest. Great effort and we all appreciate your hard work.-Rob

Congrats jeffe! Lookin' good so far!

Season's greetings,
Canuck

Hey Jeffe,

Not sure what I contributed.......other than all the dumb questions I asked........ .......guess most of them did make you laugh...............so that would be a good contribution.

Hi Jeff
You ROCK buddy. The rounds sound great and the goals have been met in every case. You have to love it when a plan comes together. Wishing you and yours the best in the New Year and may all your cartridges come true.
I'm still very interested in the 416 to upgrade my Taylor possibly.
To all the Bubbas and STC guys the best in the New Year and may Argentina be in our futures.
Take good care,
Dave

Hi Jeffe!
Great job, looking GOOD! Really looking foreward to see the .470!

Just loaded up some chrono testing loads!!

a good spread of 416s with 400gr, and 458s with 500gr

I'll go run them over the chrono in a day or 3

jeffe

Well,
I've been asked and I know some are curious on the dies.

I got a set of 470 AR from CH4d

I use these to size the body for the 416 and 458

416 -
took a set of lyman 416 rigby dies (i had a spare.. and for 20 bucks, what can you do?) trimmed them a tad shorter, bored the case right at the shoulder, and use these for neck sizing and bullet seating... haven'y cut it short enough for crimping YET

458 -
basically the same thing, with a set of 45/70 dies. I ordered replacements, already.

I think i'll put my old RC3 on the left side of my bench to size them all, and then move over to the right to reize and seat.


I believe a good working set of dies could be turn from 416 rigby, with the taper set to ~.005 per inch.

Jeffe

OK! hows this for a donor action...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=41974877

Too bad I just bought a damn gun. Anyhow, thought I would pass on the opportunity for somebody else.

quote:

Originally posted by gixxer:
OK! hows this for a donor action...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=41974877

Too bad I just bought a damn gun. Anyhow, thought I would pass on the opportunity for somebody else.

Just about perfect!!
jeffe

just got back in town...

yipeeeeeeeeeee!!!

great work

all the doubters be shamed

cant wait for the word to get out...

jeffe...you might need to hire some people to pump out these conversions.

hope your new fame does not go to your head

cant wait to hear about the load data when your done...

Good work Jeffe!

Those are looking good.

Now my dilemma is whether to use one of my VZ24's or pick up a Mk-X or comparable commercial Mauser.

I'm still leaning toward the 470, but the 458 is awfully tempting.

Mark

Jeffe,

Want to start a list of names in the event we can get enough interest to get some basic brass made, maybe even headstamp etc.......your thoughts.

I'll be in Houston this weekend, may have some time if your going to be around.....pretty sure my girlfriend has to work on Sat.

quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
Jeffe,

Want to start a list of names in the event we can get enough interest to get some basic brass made, maybe even headstamp etc.......your thoughts.

I'll be in Houston this weekend, may have some time if your going to be around.....pretty sure my girlfriend has to work on Sat.

great idea gringo!

p.s. those two carts look seeeexsaaaay! (fat bastard voice)

quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
Jeffe,

Want to start a list of names in the event we can get enough interest to get some basic brass made, maybe even headstamp etc.......your thoughts.

I'll be in Houston this weekend, may have some time if your going to be around.....pretty sure my girlfriend has to work on Sat.

I see from your signature you've been listening to her a lot! You need to get away and get some perspective, LOL.

Why don't we get it stamped "AR 4156780" and like the true Bubbas we are, we can get the ole Dremel out and grind off the numbers we don't need?

You won't believe me, so I shouldn't post the range findings...

but I will

416 AR - 400 gr hornady 26" barrel
wc844 (H335 clone)
primers look great.. so fair load
2470 ave
2420 EASY and low

458 AR - 500gr hornady 22" barrel
you won't believe me, so why should I post it...

starting load
2225

top load - pretty close to max with this powder and barrel length

2326 AVE!!

yeah, I typed
2 3 2 6 fps
with a 22" barrel!!

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
458 AR - 500gr hornady 22" barrel
you won't believe me, so why should I post it...

starting load
2225

top load - pretty close to max with this powder and barrel length

2326 AVE!!

yeah, I type
2 3 2 6 fps
with a 22" barrel!!

jeffe

Holy smoke!!!!
That is awsome! Theese were a bit harder than what you loaded up the .416 with, I suppose?

Hot stuff to be sure.
That 26" barrell should get me over 2600 without any pain at all.
I have another rifle and action for the 470 whenever you are ready.
With these numbers and without the pressure even a couple hundred brass will last a long, long time.
Frank

Which of the Rum Brass are you using?
Frank

Frank,
I think that will go over 2500... but i dunno on 2600.. WOW...

the 470 should hit 2300+... and in a 26", well, 2400 may not be outside reality.


Bent,
the 458, to 2250, was pretty close ... but 2300, man it hit a bit better... and it weighs 9# 1.5oz

jeffe

doubters

holy#$@%&*@! batman...

time to celebrate...

jeffe...what kind of scotch should i send you?

next stop...reloader magazine!

From what I saw the other day, these numbers do not surprize me at all.

Hog Killer

jeffe,

You got a real thumper there! The 416 is pretty neat...would be a easy upgrade from the Taylor.

I don't find your velocities from the 458 surprising at all...you will recall Saeed got some phenomenal numbers out of the 450 Vincent which your AR is the veritable twin of (see here for Long version...450 Vincent Long). Both Saeed and Roy managed to get over 2600fps with it.

Must be a very efficient case with that bore dia!

Cheers,
Canuck

Chris,
OMG...
On the 450 Vincent Short the 458 AR is within 50 FPS of the short with it's 26" vs my 22"!!!

okay.. COOL... it works

jeffe

jeffe...

if i send you some 300gr 458 x bullets will you see how fast the 458 a.r. will push them?

wernt kiddn neither on the scotch...

Boomstick
got in 450 TSX? I don't think 300s will be impressive in the shorter barrel, due to burn time

Looking at the vincent long and short, compared to the AR..

the AR is a splint between them, with a shorter neck, but body between the 2, but loaded to 3.35, rather than 3.45 or 3.65



jeffe

o.k.

have you tried balvenie 12 year double wood? thats a good'n... or if you dont want scotch let me know

congrats again on being able to turn a 7mag rifle into an african big five boom-thudder!

BS,
mccellend lowland singlemalt... the lowland part is IMPORTANT ... my blood on that side is pictish and fifer... moss is for laying on, not filtering booze!!
thanks
jeffe