quote:

quote:

Boom Stick
being that this is the medium caliber board, defaming the 45-70 is not called for, i



Ok...good point...I'll start a thread on the big bore forum so we can defame the hell out of it there. I'm glad you bought that up. Big Grin Big Grin

There ya go guys...this is the big bore forum and we can kick the worthless as teats on a boar 45-70 all we want here.

I'll start:

How do you spell obsolete? = 45-70

Are you guys suggesting it would not be prudent to take on an elephant with this

Is it legal to have this much fun?????

Vapodog,

It's a cliff shooter. Works best when there is a lot of elevation in the equation.

quote:

It's a cliff shooter. Works best when there is a lot of elevation in the equation.

schromf
I prefer this round while shooting up cats in telephone poles to as well as on cliffs

This came from the .458 discussion go all the way to the bottom, chuck hawks, rates the 45-70 pretty poorly low BC bullets and really only adequate on deer inside 300 yds with a maximum point blank range of 200 yards using 405 gr bullets. you can like or dislike chuck hawks, but facts are facts.

45/70 bottom of page

bwanajcj,

It started over on medium bores.

MPBR for the 45-70= 131 yards

Yeah I want some of that...NOT

Do I see someone pissing in a hornets nest?

There is one good thing about the 45-70. If you see your bullet is not going to hit what you are shooting at after you fire it, all you have to do is run up and tap it over.

So, which of you 'de-famers' is willing to stand still while the projectile from an obsolete .45-70 is coming your way, from any distance ...?

I had no idea there was so much pent up bitterness toward the 45-70.

Vent away guys.....no one's looking now!!!

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:
So, which of you 'de-famers' is willing to stand still while the projectile from an obsolete .45-70 is coming your way, from any distance ...?

I just can't resist. From what I hear about their accuracy it seems like standing still might be the best thing to do.

I'd be more worried standing in the batters box and taking a Randy Johnson fastball.....



IV

I don't undertand the fascination with comparing a very good military round circa 1873 with smokeless sporting numbers from the 1950s and later.
And if you think the .45-70 stinks, you must really despise the .50-70 that it replaced. Even worse trajectory and lousy sectional density. Why, I don't know how William Cody fed so many Kansas and Pacific railroad building crews fresh bison with his .50-70 -- and a damned government surplus "needle-gun" at that. Worthless. Utterly worthless.

come on vap...i said it was a mid to short range tool, dont snipet me and paint me in a bad way, y'all can see i did not start this. the 45-@# has a lot of detractions compared to a lot of rounds but if you are HUNTING it works fine. as far as accuracy goes, that is more of a rifle/bullet issue not cart as a whole. use premium bullets in a ruger #1 and is is just fine. it is obviously not a sniper round but a hunting/cowboy round. it seems once a week the big bore thread has to pull out there whipping boy cartridge to make them feel better. yes i admit i like the 45-70 and will only use it within its limitations. sometimes it is the limitations that bring it charm, like bowhunting. it is not "acurate" to rifle standards and you have to use it usualy under 60 yards but i can put 10 arrows in a 5" group @ 50 yards and thats good enough to hunt almost anything, i just have to HUNT! so the 45-70 gives me three times that and i feel great about that. a cheesburger is not a steak and grape juice is not champagne, i just like cheesburgers and grapejuice. will i kill a cape buff with it, no! (but i would i just prefer to use a 416 rigby) but i would kill a brown bear and that is my plan to hopefully in the not to distant future. can the big bore guys find another cart to stomp on for a while...how about the 458 win mag, yeah! go for it, i'll even start the thread for ya.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Is it legal to have this much fun?????

ONLY if you are six years old.

quote:

yes i admit i like the 45-70 and will only use it within its limitations.

Thats thats a good answer, and I accept that at face value.

Shooting and hunting is a hobby for most of us and whats important is you enjoy it.

Still not going to get me to like the 45-70, and the 50 cal is worse. How it preformed 125 years ago doesn't impress me much either, that was then, this is now and its still obsolete.

But to call a spade a spade so to speak, in its time it was state of the art, there is no denying that either, before its introduction the shooting world was fiddling with paper wrapped cartridges and powder horns.

But fast forward to today, and your charm is just a fancy wrapping for obsolete. Yes it did and still is capable of hunting within its limitations, and that was the very good operative word.

Historically it is significant, and that can't be denied either. It should be remembered that is was the offical US caliber for less than 20 years 1873-1892, and its battle record was spotty at best, last history book I read Custer lost to the indians, and it certainly was outclassed in Cuba by the 7x57.

Bill,

I am not comparing it to rounds from the 1950's the late 1890's and the dawn of the 20th century brought the changes that made the 45-70 neolithic.

It has soldiered on in the hands of hunters and acolytes but it certainly isn't on its technical merits.

Not to run the 45-70 down, I'm sure it has its place, but I read that in the good old days at over 200 yards one could duck when one saw the puff of smoke, if someone was shooting at you.
Heck, I read even the bears were starting to wake up to that trick.
JL>

I have just come back from a trip and have shot 20 or so ferals with the 45/70 and I would not want it coming at me thats for sure.....405 gr @ 1850 I would not like to try and dodge it

Would the guy whom is willing to hold a paper plate @ 250 yds an allow me to shoot holes into it please make a post!
52.0gr IMR3031/405 JSP/Fed 215 primer/Starline brass out of a 32" Buufalo classic mdl 1871
Surely with some of the attitudes here even if I miss it should bounce off your forehead

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
I have just come back from a trip and have shot 20 or so ferals with the 45/70 and I would not want it coming at me thats for sure.....405 gr @ 1850 I would not like to try and dodge it

Yes,
The point however is that you could if you was of a mind to!!

quote:

Would the guy whom is willing to hold a paper plate @ 250 yds an allow me to shoot holes into it please make a post!

At 250 yards I suppose one must shoot about three feet high to hit one???

Actually, I'm told that one can see the bullet coming and move the paper plate such that the bullet always hits dead center.

3ft high??? you read too much on AR. I have that BC 1871 sighted in 2" high @100 yds and at 250 yds it is 2"low. I shoot in cowboy action with that rifle ( it has 2 barrels a 45-70 & a 38-55) out to 500 yds with that same load at a 12x12 steel plate that hangs from a limb.
using a Lyman rear sight and front Lyman sight with inserts one quickly draws snickers from the crowd for more than 1 miss out of 5 shots. When we paint that plate for a shoot it is quite surprizing the depth of the dings in it.
I've shot a few bison with that load in the 45-70 barrel...one of them I hit between the eys and we found the bullet went thru the skull out the back of the skull into the bull's hump followed the backbone and stopped in a hipjoint! that's about 5 ft of penetration at 140 yds thru bone/muscle on a critter Ray Atkinson calles the toughest in the world!

I cant beleive that this crap is still going on.
What amazes me about the 45-70 fans are that they completely miss the boat on what everyone has been saying about their beloved catridge.

Nobody questioned it's effectiveness in the field nor it's apparent role in the killing of the American Bison, which incidently is a very different animal in terms of phsyicological scope and reserve than the African Buffalo.

The only discord comes form the notion that is put forth that the 55-70 is an adequate caliber for African buffalo hunting. NO more no less.

It's effectiveness as a plains game caliber in Africa has been proven by local 45-70 users, more than adequate in certain circumstances. I used it to great effect and did the same with a down loaded 458 Win using cast bullets and pistol powder. It's a great short range bushveld rifle and will put down the toughest of plains game such as Wildebeest and Zebra without any problem.

Can it kill an African buffalo, yes it can, so can a .22 long rifle; ( during the 1982 / 83 drought we did capture culling of buffalo and wildebeest and the killing in the cattle clamp was done using a silenced single shot Drulov pistol in 22 LR with a shot from above just behind the line between the two bosses )

Is it advised or commonly recommended as a buffalo sport hunting cartridge?

No it is'nt not even with the most modern of loadings. ( and with good reason)

Now that appears to stick in the 45-70 lovers craw, they simply wont accept that their cartridge is not enough to make the grade and line up.

Often the arguement is brought up that it compares favourably with some of the old British express cartridges, and those are accepted as Bufallo hunting cartridges.

Well that too is myth and urban legend as many of the British express cartridges in original form also fall short in terms of ability. Some hopelessly so.

This thread sucks.

George

other than bigfoot show any animal on earth the 45-70 has not killed while being used to hunt it

I get the impression that few have actually used it on game based on comments...

I have observed the 45-70 with warm handloads and good bullets on a number of elk and bison, have even filmed some of these kills...It is a poor killer on game...I have used it enough that I will no longer use it..Game is slow to die and surprisingly enough does not leave a very good blood trail as bullets seldom exit larger big game like elk...It seems to me it kill a little better with solids or hard cast bullets, but its still no champion...

It works well on hogs and deer with good handloads...

I have no problems with being a 45-70 defamer, and freely express my opinnion when asked on it, politically correct or not..

That said, I also don't dictate what anyone else uses on game...

Ray:

There is quite a following of the 45-70 in South Africa and one of the biggest vocal proponents of the caliber is Maurtiz Coetzee.

He has had a lot of success with his 45-70 in a Ruger No. 1. Mauritz hasbaled many a client out with badly shot and wounded game using his Ruger and that I know for fact, not just hearsay.

Based on his reports and enthusiasm a lot of guys bought rifles and started using them on game, some of their results have been shown in Magnum and other publications. Some even rebarreled 450-577 Martini Hnery Rifles and I have a friend who has hunted on my ranch with his and it does very well on Wildebeest and Kudu.

Our common friend Colin Angelo had a Ruger No 1 that he named Smokin Joe, I actually have pictures of it and Colin Killed succesfully a whole whack of game including Wildesbeest with the 45. I will post some pics to show that it is not just talk.

I have used the 45-70 ( Marlin guide gun)a lot and nothing but nothing has ever gotten away from me with it. Not having access to factory ammo we exclusivley loaded for it an NP's and cast bullets work very well in my rifle.

A 45 caliber 400 gr lead bullet doing 1800 fps is just that, whether fired from downloaded 458 Winchester a Lott or a 3 inch Magnum. Downtime, no different to anything else and this whole issue of how much blood you get to see.....old wives tales!

You can bleed to death with no blood showing externally...... we teach that to our students every day when dealing with trauma.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
This thread sucks.

George

it all started here about half way down page two.
If anyone takes this seriously he needs to review his sex life.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I get the impression that few have actually used it on game based on comments...

I have observed the 45-70 with warm handloads and good bullets on a number of elk and bison, have even filmed some of these kills...It is a poor killer on game....

I love everytime you say this Ray. Makes me really wonder how many times you HAVE used one. Maybe you need to work on bullet placement or somthing because I find just exactly the opposite results.

Brent

quote:

Originally posted by cats:
Would the guy whom is willing to hold a paper plate @ 250 yds an allow me to shoot holes into it please make a post!
52.0gr IMR3031/405 JSP/Fed 215 primer/Starline brass out of a 32" Buufalo classic mdl 1871
Surely with some of the attitudes here even if I miss it should bounce off your forehead

Ray would you like to hold the paper plate?

can we have a moretorium on #$-*@ bashing in the big bore board

Rofl!

Good lord man! Where do you find this stuff?

look into my eyes...you will become one of us and love the 45-70, you love the 45-70, you cant live without the 45-70

Nah,

I want the light sword. Let the power be with you.

I read an article on the 45-70 . The author was relaying a story from his grandfather who claimed to be shot by his own bullet he fired at a mountain lion.
The lion was facing him and when he fired , as the lion turned about face to run , the bullet exited from the rear end of the cat and struck the shooter. He was trying to infer the slow moving nature of the 45-70.
I myself kinda like the cartridge.

"And now for something completely different....'




Melissa Theuriau, French LCI News anchorwoman.

If she asked me to hunt with a .45-70 then I think I would...

-Bob F.

a shorter list might be what you would not do

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:


look into my eyes...you will become one of us and love the 45-70, you love the 45-70, you cant live without the 45-70

Boomstick, is that a kicking cat or a shooting cat?

If the cat was within ten yards, the 45-70 might do the job on it.

shooting...45-70, me-OW!

stuff this one in a 4 bore



better bullet coeficient and sectional density