The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .495 A-SquareGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
One of Us |
I know it can fit in a standard length model 70 action, but how much smithing is required to get it to feed well? If you were wondering I am interested in this caliber because the .495 name gets you around the over 50 crap, no shoulder to stick, seems like a reasonable level of power and recoil, and it's something that not everybody has. I didn't go up there to die, I went up there to live. | ||
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I talked to Harry McGowan about the 495 . He said as dpd Art Alphin in Any Shot You Want that the model 70 wasn,t a big enough action for it . I went with the 500 because I wanted one and I found that when I loaded it down to 2200 fps w/ 600 gr Barnes Orig. made a very powerful low pressure load . great round tho . .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Thank you, guess I was mistaken on the model 70 part. I didn't go up there to die, I went up there to live. | |||
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It's based off the .460 weatherby (shortened), so anything with a bolt dia. big enough for the Rigby (ie mauser 98) should work for the 495. I'd have to go down and measure a M70 bolt to see if it could be opened up big enough---just did--looks like you could open it up to .590". So that bein' said, getting it to feed a big, fat, straight case would entail some bit of work to the feed ramp and rails. But nothing a good smith shouldn't be able to do. Anybody that could start with a 98 mauser set up to feed 8mm and make it gobble up 458 win mags should be able to make the 495 feed. It's just mechanics and geometry -should be no need to bury a black cat in the yard at midnight under a full moon -if you get my drift. Hope this helps some, Nick | |||
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PS, in the "Mini Compendium of Big Bore Cartridges" by Daniel McCarthy, it mentions the .495 A-Square fitting in a '98 action. "A short version of the 500 A-Square called the .495 A-Square is available that is short enough to be build on Winchester model 70 and Mauser model 98 actions, with extensive reworking of the magazine box, rails and ramp." http://www.470mbogo.com/BigBoreCompendium/ -Nick | |||
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the 495 does EVERY it claims to do. even the tiptop loads can be done. I feel that loading it hotter than the 500 jeffery or much hotter than the 500 nitro defeats the purpose. the belt doesn't help with feeding these wide cartidges in a model 70. nor does the rebated rim .. this will likely surprise lots of folks, but the 460w case is rebated, will the HH cases aren't. .. .602 belt and .583 rim .. my 500 AccRel, based off the rigby case, is a tad shorter, 3.34oal, unrebated, and is sort-of a modern rendition of the 500 jeffery. and you can get over 2300 with 600gr bullets .. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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What services does this cartridge have? Oscar. I am Spanish My forum:www.armaslargasdecaza.com | |||
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O.K, I have already seen the services of 495 A-Square here: http://a-squareco.com/Ballistics_Chart.html Impressive. Oscr. I am Spanish My forum:www.armaslargasdecaza.com | |||
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One of Us |
Do yourself a favor and just build a 500ar and have your smith stamp 499ar on the barrel. I wanted the same as you, a 510 caliber bullet that fit in a normal sized action. Just buy yourself a new or used ruger 7mag and send to McGowen and tell them you want a 500ar/499ar.    | |||
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Jeffe and P Taylor are prolly right on the 500 AR . The 495 was devveloped bbecause 460 Whby brass was redily available at the time . It was developed in 1977 and tested in 1978 . It worked good but they had to go to the P14 action to really get it to work right as a rifle . .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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P Taylor, would it be too much trouble to get a pic of the whole rifle? What stock is that? Those NECG aperture's are pretty nice aren't they. Thanks, Nick | |||
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If the 500 AR was 100 years old and made by a famous gunmaker people would be talking about it like its the best hunter stopper cart ever. If you shoot one you will want one. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Yea, but its not! History trumps design every day. IMHO. I got a nit to pick. A little one. Not a big deal, just an overall impression that things are not quite in balance on AR big bore. Lets agree for a minute the 500AR is better than the 495A2 because the 495 is rebated and rimmed. I think I like the 500AR, then I also like the sound of the 550 magnum same Wby belt and very minor rebate. I got put on ignore when I raise these objections to the 600 Ok? Big BIG time rebate! True, a non belted 600 might be tough, but I was suggesting a 577 might be a better way to go. Looking at 585HE or BME, belted but not rebated. You would think I spit on the pope! There hardly ever a good word for the 577 TREX on this forum? Its been around long enough, can be loaded up or down. No rebate -no belt? It should be a good to go over .50 round.  | |||
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 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| Moderator |
whatcha eat popcorn over, boomie? but thanks on the compliments.. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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short answer: build what you want. the long one: I wanted a .510 bolt action rifle that I could afford. I didn't need all the power of the A2. Its a B&C stock with a screw through the stock into the second recoil lug, bedded from tang to tip. My smith said give it hell and so far its held up. I'm only running it at 2000fps which is plenty for me. The peeps are nice but I get a lot of shots at pigs over 100 yards around here so switched to a 1-4x leupy scope.    An AP I dug out of the block of concrete I always shoot. The tip is still sharp, impressive!  | |||
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Nice rifle! I'm going to have Harlan at the CZ Custom Shop put a Bell & Carlson synthetic on my 500 Jeffery for an Alaska hunt. For the lower 48 and Africa I'm going to use it's pretty wood stock.  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Thanks PT, that is a nice looking, functional rifle. -Nick | |||
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Nick if it helps get you over the line, here is my 500 AR (500 AccRel in Australia)Nothing special, brought new a Ruger 7mm Rem Mag, sold the stock and the barrel, new barrel, boyds stock, action rails and bolt face. Cheapest you will ever own and build. regards S&F   regards Joe | |||
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Joe , I have the same stock on my 9.3/64 Brenneke . I really like it . . Nice looking rifles all . What velocity will the 500 AR push a 535 or 570 gr bullet . How about from an 18" barrel ?? Does the standard Ruger hold 2 in the mag. .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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What envy do you give me  , as I would like having one of these giants in my armorer  .Oscar. I am Spanish My forum:www.armaslargasdecaza.com | |||
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Oscar, The mighty 505 Gibbs is available from CZ USA. Can you order that from Spain? Ammo, while not cheap, is available from several European sources and hand loading is same as any other big 50, perhaps even easier due to the low pressure, hi volume case. No rebate, no belt, no bad karma, no single stack feeding. | |||
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| Moderator |
gumboot 535 con go over 2450 with 24.. say 20 fps per inch.. over 2300? 570 over 2350.... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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That would make an awesome thumper . It would loose , what 180 fps. 2150 fps should be doable with the 18" barrel. It would be nice and lively with the 535 gr bullet @ that velocity in a 7.5 lb rifle . Will need to look around for a 300 thst can be converted . the 500 would be enough of a step up from my 458 to justify it . .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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No, No, No.. - will loose about 120-150 fps from the 6 inches cut away.. so around 2300 fps should be doable with a 535 grainer from a 18" barrel.. | |||
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| one of us |
Its the same movie as everytime. New guys ask about a calibre. They get the local good old boys ramming the forum favorites down their neck.  Now comes the scene where the sheriff steps in to sort it all out for us | |||
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The rebated rim debates are always lively 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Adding a belt to the Rigby case will perfect the 495 A2 concept. 495 BS 25 thou for a belt and 30 thou taper Like a fatter Lott 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Thank you. | |||
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I change the channel when I don't like what's on. -Nick | |||
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| Moderator |
happens .. as far as i know, there's not a single 495 a2 here .. but at least 1/2 a dozen 500 ARs and a couple 505 empires ... do you find fault in talking about what you actually KNOW about, rather than speculate? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Yea, for CNN, I am with you, but if is one of my favorites - I might to try and make the channel better  To extent this is a valid analogy. AR is a great channel, and the more we argue the more good ideas (new and old, non some AR favorites) get openly discussed. Besides, nitpicking and arguing ballistic trivia is an age old tradition. Emotion and all. | |||
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one of us |
Ah the famous rebated rim argument! WHO CAREs! If it feeds 100% WHO CARES. Pse try actually building a rifle yourself! Maybe then we'll listen to you. Till then best to STFU. The .495 a2 is a waste of time, the 500ar or 500 a2 make the most sense. Of course what do I know, I've only been there and done that! -Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Of course what do I know, I've only been there and done that! -Rob I think one of the beauties of the 600 OK is that it can fit in a CZ550 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| Moderator |
designed to fit in a cz550 magnum .. like the AR rounds are designed to fit in std length actions save the long actions for monsters! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Apparently, Robdabuilder is talking about Jeff here, since Jeff was the one who raised the subject with regard to the inherent problems of the 500A2/495A2 being belted and rebated  I guess we are in total thread hijack mode now. | |||
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ya, it's gone completely 'round the bend at this point. hopefully the poor guy got what he was looking for... -Nick | |||
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I was hopeing for a good chat about the positive points of the 500 AR. Heres a good idea . I will start a new thread .. .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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| one of us |
A forum should be about knowing and speculating and more besides. You just speculated on the 495 yourself, since you don't know for sure. You need anymore help understanding your own posts feel free to let me know Seriousy I really hope the guy builds a 495 and puts some pics up. The reason as you say no one has done it here is precisely the only reason needed.Might give us a break from continuous pet calibre marketing and breathe some life into a slowing down forum. | |||
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| Moderator |
thanks for straightening that out, sheriff ... now, can you speak to your experiences with the 495? or any other .510 hunting rifle, to xref. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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