Rhino not Rino! I should go to bed.

Allen

I haven't had a change to shoot any yet, but mine look and weigh pretty consistant.



I only have one box of 300 grains, we'll see how they shoot in my 378. I did buy a bunch of 257, 270, and 338 bullets during his going out of business sale...they are hell for stout bullets I just hope they shoot good.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenBosely:
Rhino not Rino! I should go to bed.

Allen

I just woke up, and I say Rhino



Two Rhino 270 grains 375 bullets taken from two different Zebras shot at about 60 and 80 yards, remaining weight 99,96% and 99,83%, accuracy at range normally within 1,2 inch (3 cm) with Winchester model 70 Safari Express at 109 yards (100 meter). The bullets has opend up to 0,862 inch and 0,853 inch.

The results are similar in all calibers I tried and on good days (my good days )I will shoot 3 shots within 0,4 inch (1 cm).

quote:

Even if bullets vary 2-grains in weight it does not affect the point of striking the target.

Springtrap,

This is not bullshit. You can do this 2 ways:

a) Shoot the bullets (your own test).
b) Read up in precision reloading manuals about it.

For all practical purposes at normal hunting distances it is not a factor and this goes for all bullets. Obviously human nature is such that we always strive for perfection, but in hunting it is not a factor - the construction of the bullet and the way it holds up is far more important.

In hunting a 1 MOA grouping is quite an acceptable position between the capability of your rifle, your own shooting ability and the precision of the bullet. These 3 must come together and in the field the one that comes to the fore is usually the man behind the gun that is making the mistakes.

Warrior

quote:

Two Rhino 270 grains 375 bullets taken from two different Zebras shot at about 60 and 80 yards, remaining weight 99,96% and 99,83%, accuracy at range normally within 1,2 inch (3 cm) with Winchester model 70 Safari Express at 109 yards (100 meter). The bullets has opend up to 0,862 inch and 0,853 inch.

Nice, results are what count.

quote:

a) Shoot the bullets (your own test).

Which bullets? Rhinos?

quote:

Obviously human nature is such that we always strive for perfection, but in hunting it is not a factor - the construction of the bullet and the way it holds up is far more important.

I find this statement very confusing.
Why would we strive for perfection in the making of bullets, sighting-in of our rifles on the range as best as possible and yet when it gets to the hunting it all is no longer a factor?

As far as the construction goes, you're right, but I'm not so sure that you no which bullet is the better constructed one - positively not the Rhinos!
Why? Simply because of all the lack of uniform shapes and weights

My small amount of experience with the Rhino softs indicates that they hold together well. It is the non-uniformity that I question.

quote:

In hunting a 1 MOA grouping is quite an acceptable position between the capability of your rifle, your own shooting ability and the precision of the bullet. These 3 must come together and in the field the one that comes to the fore is usually the man behind the gun that is making the mistakes.

Warrior

I have decided to sell my Rhino bullets at a low price in case anyone is interested:

9.3 286 grain Rhinos for sale:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=...=134103956#134103956

.375" 350 grain Rhinos for sale:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2711043/m/794103956

quote:

..... and in the field the one that comes to the fore is usually the man behind the gun that is making the mistakes.

500grains, you, myself and perhaps many more forum members are the culprits making the mistakes - not the Rhino's with the poor uniformity, according to Warrior.

Once again

Whatever the reasons for inaccuracy, there is just no excuse for the sloppy QC on display with the Rhino bullets. Significantly different lengths, diameters, cannelure positions? C'mon.

/

In defense of Rhino (to an extent), I have found cannelures in different places on Barnes solids. But I never checked them for variations in diameter, concentricity or square bases.

Also, the Rhino softs I have shot have shown acceptable hunting accuracy (1.25 to 1.5 inches at 100 yards), they expanded well and held together. It was just the Rhino solids which were all over the place. Perhaps that is because the soft is a swaged bullet and the solid is lathe-turned? I am just speculating the Rhino's swaging equipment may be good enough for making hunting bullets, but the lathe could be loose or sloppy? Or maybe the operator needs more training?

quote:

This whole issue of inconsistant bullets got me thinking and personally I do beleive that one has to look at the issue in the correct context.

Alf,

As I have posed the question before to SpringTrap, what is the significance if say a 300 grain bullet is a millimeter or so longer and weighs 2 or 3 grains more than the other bullets in the same lot? This is an issue that we have to assess in the context of hunting bullets, and let us say we obtain an accuracy level of somewhere between 1 and 1.5 MOA grouping at 100 yds? Is this acceptable for hunting rifles say from 30-06 and up? Let us exclude varminting rifles that uses precision made varmint bullets, such as A-Max and V-Max and whatever.

As can be seen from SpingTrap's skewed and obstinate reply to the real question here, it now begs the question, is it tolerable that we can have the mentioned variances in tolerance as to bullet length and mass? And I have put it into the context of 3 factors, namely:

- The capability of the rifle
- the shooting ability of the hunter,and
- the precision of the bullet

And the stated application is hunting under hunting conditions, not target shooting or shooting over a sandbag on a car's bonnet or roof. Shooting at distances beyond 250 yds may require a different set of values.

I agree with you that we need to review the context in which we talk and apply the bullet. So the question is open to all, how serious can it be if we can place a bullet into a 1.5 MOA circle at 100 yds with regular monotony, considering the size of the antelope's vital area? And how much of an issue could it be if we shoot buffalo at short range with the bigger calibers?

Warrior.

Warrior,

SpringTrap is not a bad guy because he expects bullets to be precise and accurate. There are plenty of companies making bullets that are precise and accurate, including GS Custom, North Fork, Sierra, Speer, Hornady, Nosler, etc. I suppose the question is why Rhino does not join that group. Perhaps the capital outlay is too significant, and I can certainly understand that problem.

500 Grains,

I actually agree with you, but life is about compromises most of the time:

* We want the best, but procrastinate to pay the price, or
* We want it now, but it is not readily available, or ...

That then leads us to making practical decisions at the time, to opt for a second or third choice based on availability, or a cheaper choice based on the dollars in your pocket, or pick something that works but lacks in certain regards. That is life for the average person as opposed to the guy that is flushed. That is why I am posing the above 3-point scenario, based on practical hunting parameters that must come together.

Americans have far more choices than what we have in SA just about on most things in life.

I have used Rhino bullets for quite some time now, and I have never felt that I am disadvantaged as far as killing animals are concerned. They actually perform quite well as far as hunting is concerned and I guess many hunters feel the same way. Impala bullets have also been critisized severely, but yet they have a large following both in SA and Europe. Perhaps in the end we can say we are lucky to have so many choices as opposed to 20 years ago.

Warrior

Warrior,

Us flushed Yanks are not disimilar.

Sierra is a popular bullet. Not real great but uniform, at least.

JPK

quote:

.... he expects bullets to be precise and accurate.

And my very high expectations are easily met by locally manufactured bullets! Thanks for that!

quote:

I have used Rhino bullets for quite some time now, I have never felt that I am disadvantaged as far as killing animals are concerned.

If the Tata or Mahindra satify your needs, go ahead, drive them. With such low quality expectations don't cry the day when things go critically wrong in your hunting results!

quote:

.... we are lucky to have so many choices ....

yet so foolish not to utilize them

quote:

With such low quality expectations don't cry the day when things go critically wrong in your hunting results!

Why should something all of a sudden now go wrong with Rhino hunting bullets if they have never failed me in the calibers that I am shooting since 1998 ouboet !!!

Rhino is my choice and I respect your choice, even though you hint all Rhino users are fools not to concur with your choice. Whilst you use the word foolish so liberally:

Does it make Alf a fool if he does not want to use a GSC bullet in one of his rifles?

Does it make 500 Grains a fool if he does not want to use a Rhino bullet in his 375 H&H that shoot the bullet like a shotgun?

I do not think so - both are extremely intelligent. If a bullet does not work for you, it should be trashed.

Warrior

quote:

If a bullet does not work for you, it should be trashed.

Exactly! You're learning fast.

That's why I've trashed Rhinos many moons ago
(And so it seems a few others - intelligent guys I would say - are doing the same.)

/

Now let's see where did I say:

quote:

..... Rhino users are not intelligent?

I said:

quote:

yet so foolish not to utilize them

Also said:

quote:

(And so it seems a few others - intelligent guys I would say - are doing the same.)

One of the meanings of 'foolish' = to behave in a stupid way.
(Even highly intelligent people can do that at times )

Warrior said:

quote:

I do not think so - both are extremely intelligent.

Só he was the one who confused foolishness with intelligence!

Sorry Sir, your question should rather be addressed to the guy above then.

quote:

Só he was the one who confused foolishness with intelligence!

No, I did not confuse foolishness with intelligence - not at all. You are obviously jumping to conclusions, as before. Why on God's earth should I confuse the two concepts.

But since you want to bring in the odd and less likely condition that an intelligent person may at times behave foolish, it makes me think that you are clutching at straw now. The most likely outcome of an inteligent person is to make wise decisions most of the time. And so he will pick a bullet that works for him and that has little to do with people that behave foolish some of the time !!! Especially if a bullet has been serving you very well since 1998 - that means there is a sustainable record to perform ... most of the time, if you will.



Warrior

quote:

The most likely outcome of an inteligent person is to make wise decisions most of the time.

That is exactly why I trashed Rhino's extremely poor quailty products many moons ago.

In your own words:
'You are cluthing at straw now' by repeating Rhino's 'sustanable record to perform' over and over in every post you make with the hope that just that would be all readers would remember about the poor quality bullets you hang onto so dearly.

I respect my rifles too much to force such junk down their 'throats'!

Anyway, enjoy if you so wish.

Springtrap,

I think you are totally mistaken; the people that buy Rhino bullets do that of their own volition and is not guided by what I say. This thought only lives in your head.

Most of our local hunters and PH's do not even consult this board or post here. I know Karl Stumpfe does, and he uses Rhino bullets. Perhaps he can tell us whether he is happy or not.

I also know that Katte Katzke uses only the Rhino 430 gr Solid Shank bullet in his .416 Rigby on buffalo. I know for sure that he swears by this bullet. Wonder why?

Warrior

/

quote:

Add to that the fact that the Rhino bullet is this case for practical purposes loose almost no weight after expansion, expands to the largest diameter of all the commercially avialable bullets used.... thus excellent lethality within the animal size range that I use my 7x57 for..... and it's a local industry product ?

This is the very same opinion that I have held all along. I have shot many Blue Wildebeest with my 7x57, using 160 gr Rhino bullets, some dropped within 15 paces and some on the spot. And that is good enough for me.

Warrior

I am posting this excerpt from a letter from Norma on behalf of Mr Kobus vd Westhuizen who owns Rhino Bullets.

Good hunting everyone!

quote:

Most of our local hunters and PH's do not even consult this board or post here. I know Karl Stumpfe does, and he uses Rhino bullets. Perhaps he can tell us whether he is happy or not.

SpringTrap,

I just remembered now, the answer to the above question was actually already given by Karl Stumpfe of Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd in the thread ... "9,3 on buff and other DG", and various retrieved bullets are shown here, as to their sterling performance.

In summary, here is only one quotation of Karl with reference to his 9,3 x 62 ... "They have really impressed me on buffalo (though I have now switched to the 300gr RN, as opposed to the 286gr Spitzer)".

Looks like Karl prefers a slightly higher SD bullet here (.305 vs .320)!!!
My friend Pieter Olivier did the same.
Intelligent decision or foolish decision?


Warrior

quote:

I respect my rifles too much to force such junk down their 'throats'!

Anyway, enjoy if you so wish.

Left: 9,3/300 gr sectioned bullet.
Right: 9.3/286 gr Rhino bullet recovered from a wetpack.

The 286 gr bullet is a semi-spitzer, whereas the 300 gr bullet is a RN. Also the 286 gr bullet has less lead, as the drilled hole is not as deep, as can be seen where the expansion was arrested.

With such a disproportionate chunk of lead inside the Rhino, I can now better understand SpringTrap's total indignation with regard to these badly manufactured bullets!

No wonder

quote:

Originally posted by Gecko:
With such a disproportionate chunk of lead inside the Rhino, I can now better understand SpringTrap's total indignation with regard to these badly manufactured bullets!

No wonder

How many animals have you killed with rhino bullets, and if, what caliber and weight ?

Jnd,

I have killed plenty animals with Rhino bullets:

.243/100gr bullets
.284/160gr bullets - one of my favourites
.284/170 gr bullets
.308/200 gr bullets
.366/286 gr bullets - one of my favourites

Gecko,

Do not go on looks, rather on what you see in the field. Terminal effectiveness is what counts and that is why Karl Stumpfe said that he was impressed with the bullet - the very ones that you have just seen that apparently gives you an eye sore. Through my eyes though it is wonderful.

Warrior

Warrior
The question was for Gecko not you.

I really like Rhino. They work great in my 9,3 (300 grains) and my friend just shot 2 pigs with the 180 grains 308
it´s a great bullet

Are Rhino Bullets still avilable in the US?

I don't belive there since Bill stoped importing then.

Any other sorces?

Allen

Gecko,

With your late entry onto this thread, and not responding to Jnd's question, it seems you are singing in the same choir as SpringTtrap. SpringTrap's last statement was ... "I respect my rifles too much to force such junk down their 'throats'!" - Strong words of condemnation. You say ... "I can now better understand SpringTrap's total indignation ..." Very similar words of resentment. That makes me think that you must be a distant relative of SpringTrap.

Look again at the Rhino bullet that I have posted, and consider what it will do when it is propelled through the vitals with those sharp and wide petals. In case you can't visualize the terminal effect that I have spoken of ... this is what will happen ... distant jackals start howling as they too feel the pain of this deadly blow that was administered to a family member of the animal kingdom.

Many PH’s that are using the Rhino Solid Shank bullet have remarked on the visible difference when an animal is hit. They all put it down to one single factor … the wide mushroom that punches a big hole through the vitals, which drops them quickly. This effect has been seen over and over on buffalo. This is what PH Mark Radloff had to say … “The Rhino Softs created a very large wound channel - ideal for hemorrhaging and shock effect. The visual impact of the bullet hitting the animal was clearly notable. Long serving staff made continual remarks on this. Subsequently, I have no hesitation in promoting and using this bullet for most follow-up work, except headshots on elephant.â€

Warrior

We own neigbouring farms in the RSA Bushveld and lease farms in Botswana as well.
So yes, we know each other.

Both of us saw the huge quantities of wasted meat and bloodshot flesh resulting from the use of those low quality bullets.
A very dear loss to highly disappointed biltong hunters and friends.

Because of that I, like SpringTrap, will never think of using Rhino's - many biltong hunters came to the same conclusion after having used them once to their own loss

/

quote:

If the object of the exercise is to bag meat for the pot or biltong then you have to choose a different caliber and or bullet combination or alternately youre hunters need to choose the shots better

So, admittedly you know exactly what we're referring to!

These are very proud one shot kill and very experienced hunters - you may learn a few things re hunting from them, if I may say so on their behalf.

We've learned long ago, through practical experience, that those Rhino bullets are definitely not suitable to gather meat for human consumption, either via the pot or biltong.