I'm no expert on the subject, but I am currently looking at 375 H&H rifles. I think I'll wait a little longer and see what the new 375 rugers sell for. If I already had a rifle chambered in the 375 h&h, I wouldn't even think about the ruger version; but for someone who doesn't own a 375 yet, it is looking to offer more affordability and variety(over time) of rifles with the same performance as the H&H.

gohip2000,

you can buy a brand new CZ with a good, set trigger first thing tomorrow morning for the same price, holds six rounds (five plus one in the chamber)
AND, they will sell you ammunition, dies and brass for it on you way to checkout.
I guess wanting to buy ammunition for a new rifle at the ame time is kinda chickenshite, in the long run. Patience...

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS

The 376 steyr revisited. I hope they do a better job of marketing.

Apparently every one of the first batch of .375 Ruger rifles has been sold, or they are in the hands of retailers that are holding on to them for whatever the market will bear. It is a nice little rifle.

Some (a few) Ruger .375s have already been delivered to dealers and sold to individuals.

So far the reports do not confirm some of the hype apparently produced by Hornady or Ruger.

For more details, see here:

http://www.realguns.com/archives/134.htm

Yep, "The 375 Ruger Story - All Guns & No Ammo Part I" is old hat here. Good piece. The .375 Ruger Hawkeye rifles made it to Kentucky in late December 2006. Yes, I have one.

Absolutely nothing can be said about hype yet, because there is no brass or loaded ammo available, but Joe's chamber cast does seem to confirm a .532" max brass head size. He was only guessing at the rim size (0.5120" in his drawing, wrong I'll bet) but he did show a photo of the .532" rim of a .375 RUM fitting into the .375 Ruger Hawkeye boltface. A bit of a non sequitur on Joe's part.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Yep, "The 375 Ruger Story - All Guns & No Ammo Part I" is old hat here. Good piece. The .375 Ruger Hawkeye rifles made it to Kentucky in late December 2006. Yes, I have one.

Absolutely nothing can be said about hype yet, because there is no brass or loaded ammo available...

Glad to hear that it is already known here. Must have missed it when I was in the hospital getting my left wheel fixed I took his comment on hype to mean the release(s) which spoke of an added 200 fps over the .375 H&H.

At this point, I suspect that no one HAS come up with a magic rifle powder which will produce more velocity with less capacity, at acceptable pressures, but who knows. Maybe they ARE privvy to rocket science about which the rest of the world knows nothing. If so, maybe we can use it in already existing cartridges too...

Anyway, wasn't trying to slam Ruger or Hornady, just drawing attention to the report in case you hadn't all read it. Apparently you have, so sorry if I wasted your time.

Check out these ballistics,is Ruger trying to tell people these are the so-called figures.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm .
http://ammoguide.com/?tool=bcompare&it=525%7c361%7c64%7c75%7c60%7c308

I thinks it's .

I don't know why it is so difficult for some folks to beleive the new Ruger cartrdidge will best the speed of the H&H........Quickload models show that the new case will have considerable more powder capacity........in addition , the modern design of the case (shape) will allow for cleaner extraction and less stretching when operating in the +60000 psi realm.

100 fps increase will be a cakewalk......

sdgunslinger,
Right, as it is a slightly bigger case than the .375 H&H (plus 6% according to one source) and a more efficient package. Like you, I give it 100 fps advantage over the .375 H&H in the same barrel length.

Rule of thumb: you can expect, at best, a velocity increase of 1/4th the increase in case capacity. If we can assume a gigantic 10% increase in case capacity over the 375H&H...that's a 2 1/2% velocity increase. If you go with a 300gr @2700fps in the H&H; you are going to see the chronograph readouts show an increase of about 70fps maximum in the rugger. It just is difficult to imagine how they will be able to generate the muzzle velocity increases they claim. IMHO, that is the cause of the delay in releasing ammunition, and why they may be late in releasing brass and dies.
Again, IMHO, the selling point of the new cartridge is the case length...I would be promoting that. To replace my 375H&H though, it would need to be a 2.50" RUM cartridge, since that velocity level is what rugger and hornady are claiming.

Personally, I would have advertised it as "...375 H&H performance in a standard length action..." and gone to the bank happy.

Rich

being that 300@ 2400 is enough...anything over 2500 is just recoil...

where the ruger will be neet is the 350's and 210's

Hmmm....

Well, I am a sucker for any .375, so guess I
may get one of the new Rugers eventually, just because...

They are a fun bore to play with, even when not using the real thumpers. Right now I shoot a .375 Winchester, an old .38-55, a .38-65 (really a 9.5x57-R), a standard 9.5x57 NE(rimless), a .375x2-1/2"-R, a .376 Steyr, a .375 H&H on a magnum mauser, and probably one or two others that have escaped my memory for the nonce. There's no reason a guy shouldn't add something to that just for grins. Whether it will be a .375 WSM, a .375 Weatherby, a.375 RUM, or the .375 Ruger is still up for grabs around here....

The fun of being a gun nut is you don't need any reason except, "That sounds kinda fun...."

What a fickle bunch. How about this, Hornady is awaiting SAAMI approval before boxing up and sending anything out to the distributors. also, Ruger is on their own production schedule and has met a goal to get certain Hawkeyes out by the SHOT show.

Also, Hornady indicated that based on the increase in powder capacity, they began their initial load developement w/ the 375Ruger using the MAX load data from their 375H&H loadings. What was suggested was that the max load data was too hot for the 375Ruger requiring the load to be backed off. As was leaked on this board and reported to be from one of the project engineers, this was attributed to the efficiency of the case. I believe it was referred to as expansion ratio. A 375/338WM can almost reach H&H velocities using less powder. The 375Ruger will use more powder than the 375/338WM and is reported to be even more efficient. Mileage may vary between users and rifles and time will establish benchmarks for this cartridge. But for now, why do so many of you guys express such distain for Hornady/Ruger's decision to market this rifle/cartridge?

RIP, again I'll say that your African Hawkeye far exceeds my expectations by the photos. I hope it shoots as well as it looks, I'm sure it will shoot fine. I weighed my 375H&H RSM w/out stock, a heavy 7 pounds 10 ounces! Your complete out of the box African is as light as my RSM barreled action alone. It should be a joy to carry and handle.

Good Luck,
GVA

quote:

Hornady is awaiting SAAMI approval before boxing up and sending anything out to the distributors.

This is possible as SAAMI is not necessrily a fast reacting outfit.....very sparcely staffed and poorly compensated group.

That said it's still a darn poor excuse.....we've known about the 375 Ruger for six months here and Hornady knew about it for six months prior to that.

Makes no difference however as the ammo just isn't available and excuses aren't helping this any.

heck, just look at all the free publicity this is generating; on this forum alone! Everybody is talking about the cartridge...mind you, not all of it is repeatable in a family-oriented forum like this one, but still...?

arr-arr-arr!!

I have considered everything I believe, and my pool pick for release date is March 19th, with initial shipments to dealers to follow within two weeks. Of course, they will get the information from rugger as to where each of the previously sold rifles went (dealer location) to make sure noone within 100 miles of those dealers gets any of the first batch. I predict that single rounds will bring between $20 and $25 per each on Ebay thru about May 1st; then will slowly fall to the $2 per range.

Rich
-just wee bit faster

another cock up just like the winchester 458 .... trying to get dg performance from a standard length action. too cheap to build a magnum length action ??

whats the matter ? can't the ladies pull a full length magnum bolt ?? maybe they should stick to their 22's.

why not just fill the 357 h&h case to the top with the powder they use in the wssm.... then you could really push those 300 grainers at 4,000 fps

Tez338's link says the rugger has 91gr of powder capacity VS 89 for the old H&H...2% capacity increase translates to 1/2% velocity increase.
This thing is either going to amaze us all...or rugger and hornady are going to be neck-deep in a world of shite. I am prepared to be astounded, but not holding my breath. Anybody even seen any ammunition yet? Yeah, me either!

Rich

Intersting to read the posts about the Ruger. People are bashing 375 Ruger because we don't need more velocity than the H&H and others are bashing the upstart because it probably won't have the 200fps gain over the H&H. Sounds like some people will like the Ruger in the end and others won't.... welcome to the harsh world of the gun nuts 375 Ruger. Me personally, I want one not because it is faster, but because I can use moderate loads to get 375H&H performance in a standard action. Nothing against the H&H, but these are the parameters I was looking for in a new rifle when I settled on the 9.3X64 Brenneke. I just want a large medium bore shooter that is capable of hunting whiteails, black bears, and pigs in the Appalachians to elk in Oregon. The 375 Ruger seems to fit this build best in my opinion. If I was buying a rifle to hunt Africa, which may never happen, I would opt for the H&H or 375 Wby, but since I am not, I am waiting for the the curtain to completely open and then a 375 Ruger will be my new companion. I heard people bashing Ruger this past fall, saying things like "Jan 2007.. yeah right; maybe 2008". Well, Ruger delivered, and judging from the look of RIP's rifle they delivered in fine fashion and on time. Ok so the ammunition isn't available right at the moment, but would you rather them drop some crappy ammo that has the bolt sticking from hot loads like other ammo producers have in the past or would a little more time to get it right be better? I can feel your frustartion as a whole, but let us not throw a cybertemper tantrum yet. Ruger delivered on time and Hornady appearently hasn't, but don't let us try to derail the momentum of a new product even before it hits the field in public hands. I will go with Winnie the Pooh on this one and maintain my sweet anticipation. Now if late Summer/ Early Fall roles around with no ammo, I will picket with the Hornady bashers. Sorry for the rant, but it seems to me that many here are trying there to bash a product that hasn't even had a chance to fight back yet. Maybe we need a cartridge abortion law... you aren't allowed to kill it while it is still in the womb.

i my self would not be suprised if hornady is loading the 375 Ruger with there high energy powder...thus getting the higher velocities,and thus the high price of there loaded cartridges i also fail to see how case shape has anything to do with increasing velocity due to the powder burning more efficentley...they said the same about the wsm s
have to wait and see
daniel

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Tez338's link says the rugger has 91gr of powder capacity VS 89 for the old H&H...2% capacity increase translates to 1/2% velocity increase.
This thing is either going to amaze us all...or rugger and hornady are going to be neck-deep in a world of shite. I am prepared to be astounded, but not holding my breath. Anybody even seen any ammunition yet? Yeah, me either!

Rich

Rich,
we know the rule of thumb for GAINS in velocities... about 25% of increased capacity, assuming the same pressure and no radical changes in case shape...

quickload, however, says that you get about a 4.8% DECREASE in pressure for the same velocity, with a 2.1% increase in case, if you are trying for the same velocity.

Since it is no big trick to get a 375HH to 2650, just loading to modern vs classic pressure, then hitting 2650 with a 2.1% larger case should be no trick at all.


i am rooting for the 375 ruger.. 3.35 OAL and 91gr of case... works for me.

yes, a 375 AR would be larger (about 105 or so), but not a factory round.


Or, to spin this another way, even if it EXACLTY patched the 375HH in pressure and performance, it would still be in a standard length action....


and all the nervous nellies that have complained about cutting mausers to take a 3.65" cartridge should now be rejoicing!!

lol


jeffe

Many are talking about cartridge efficiency, but, I do believe we are talking apples and oranges. One of the better writings on this subject was published in Precision Shooting Volume 53 Number 3 CARTRIDGE EFFICIENCY. It showcased work done by Vithta Vuori and Sierra and brought this highly technical subject down to understandable terms.

"In the case of firearms, efficiency means the ratio of the bullet muzzle energy to the energy provided by the powder charge, while keeping the barrel length essentially unchanged".

"Muzzle energy per grain of powder will decrease with each increase in case volume".

"Error is to mistakenly report efficiencies in terms of velocities rather than energies".

"Error is to incorrectly compute expansion ratios on the basis of the entire volume of the cartridge case. The correct volume is what remains after the bullet is seated".

"Error is to compare cartridges that operate at different pressures. Comparisons should be limited to similar operating pressures".

Comparing a .308 Nato to a 30-06:

The .308 Nato has a case volume (cu.in.) of 0.214, an expansion ratio of 9.6 and an efficiency of 31.9%. The 30-06 has a larger case volume (cu.in.) of 0.269, a lower expansion ratio of 7.8 and therefore a lower efficiency of 28.4%. This is why the .308 Nato is more efficient than the 30-06.

To go one step further, the 30-378 WBY has a huge case volume (cu.in.) of .553, a very low expansion ratio of 4.0 and a very poor efficiency of 20.4%. Loading the 30-378 WBY with a charge of 103 grains N170 delivers 19,202 Ft-Lbs of energy. "Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed". Therefore, 79.6% of the energy of the powder charge (15,243 ft-lbs) is divided between increasing recoil and heating the barrel. Only 20.4% (3,915 Ft-lbs) departs with the bullet.

Applying this to the 375Ruger and comparing it to the 375H&H. They both operate at similar pressures so this comparison is valid. But, until we can correctly measure the case volume (cu.in.) of the 375Ruger after the bullet is seated, we will have no way of computing the expansion ratio to determine its efficiency. Any guess is just that. Even though the 375Ruger is reported to have a larger entire case volume, it may have less case volume remaining after the bullet is seated. This alone would give it a higher expansion ratio and therefore a higher efficiency with the same powder charge resulting in a greater percentage of the energy in the powder charge departing with the bullet.

food for thought,
GVA

Wow 91 grs of powder in the new Ruger .375. Maybe you'll see a 300 gr bullet hit 2650fps. The .375/.600Ok uses about 200 grs and will exceed 4000 fps with a 300 gr bullet. Gee if Weatherby can actually market the 30-378( whoose barrel lasts less than 500 rds) then maybe I should talk Ruger into a .375/.600 Overkill in the RSM. Enter the new sport of long range Elephant and Buffalo sniping. No need to get close to just get your trophy! Eliminates all danger yet brings home the buff. Just kidding of course! Can't believe the number of people who have approached me to build one of these though.-Rob

I'm a bit more interested in http://www.z-hat.com hawk cartridges.

GaryVA,

so, how much 375R ammunition does Dave Brennan have?

As of today, all this speculation about the 3/8" bore "wunderkind" and its amazing high velocity performance is lab-grade poop! As of today the only people having any fun with this new 375 are members of the rugger collectors association.
Also, I called SAAMI and asked about the certification issue...seems it takes less than thirty days and about ten thousand dollars to get a new cartridge listed. Hornady/Ruger would only need to provide half the cash upfront, two reamers and line drawings to begin the process. Then they ship "X" number of rounds of loaded ammunition and the ammunition gets tested in pressure barrels and SAAMI specs for pressure are established. Step two, is providing SAAMI with factory data; powder selections and charge weights and bullets, along with a max oal for loaded rounds. SAAMI then replicates the factory loads to verify the data.
SAAMI then certifies that said cartridge, with bullet weights and powder listed, by charge does not exceed the established pressure...which Hornady sets...likely around 62,000-64,000PSI. They are a take-off of the old H P White laboratories, they simply certify that the data you give them is correct. It's a very simple process, and speedy if the company in question wants to pay for priority testing. Common sense and experience are telling us that after 6+ months the certification has not been achieved as of this date. It is left to you to figure out why. Are they playing "hard to get..." like some women do, or are there issues?

Perhaps it is just the 376 Steyr Mk II.

I got my Gibbs shellholderyesterday, finally! As of 10pm last night approximately forty (!!) more 550 Gibbs Magnum cartridge cases are available to the public than 375 rugger. I'll bet old Bill Sr is spinning inside his casket.

Rich

I'm thinking with normal handloading powders we should expect about 2650 from a 300g. Like all of these shortened cartridges from the 350 RM to the WSM's, you'll see the gain in the normal to shorter bullets, likk a 250-270g range. Maybe 270/2900 for the hotrodders?

hornady might be using their "progressive burn" powders...

the theory is you start off slow and then speed up like pushing a car it getts easier.

this is what they are doing for the 308 marlin express

boomie,

the funny part is: we may never know.

arr-arr

Rich