quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
the barrel will be heavier, what else??? they will use the same action as the 338. new recoil device???

it should be an efficient cart with less recoil than the h+h i ass-u-me...

Like Paul said. If it is the same bullet weight, same velocity as the Holland than it will have the same recoil in the same weight rifle.

Either it is as heavy as a Holland or it will recoil harder. I have a Whitworth in 375 that weighs a tad over 8 lbs. Can't imagine a more handy or lighter 375 for shooting.

Is this just another version of the WSSM for guys who want to shave .5 inches off the bolt throw?

Sounds interesting, especially the African rifle, but remember this is Ruger....the company, that like Remington, tends to announce new products for release at a set time and then tends to push that time back for months, or years. Ruger Gold Label and XGI come to mind for Ruger.
I hope that they actually keep a promised release date, but not going to be counting on it.

quote:

If the 375 Ruger is offered at the same weight as a 338, and the Ruger is a bit faster than the H&H, then those that didn't like carrying their H&H's, won't like shooting the Ruger!

Well said Paul. You can't please everyone. My rsm has enough AK miles that I was shopping for a stainless/lam Ruger to convert to 375 when I saw this topic last month. I'll be standing in line for one! Those who think this is an answer in search of a problem missed the boat IMHO when it comes to GOOD affordable (read working/boat/camp/salt)all wx medium rifles.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by congomike:
Sounds interesting, especially the African rifle, but remember this is Ruger....the company, that like Remington, tends to announce new products for release at a set time and then tends to push that time back for months, or years. Ruger Gold Label and XGI come to mind for Ruger.
I hope that they actually keep a promised release date, but not going to be counting on it.

2007 on the Ruger calendar is mid 09 on everyone else's!!

The .375 H&H is dead. Long live the .375 Ruger.

I cut my wisdom teeth on a Ruger M77 .30-06.

I will probably end up chocking my wheelchair with a Ruger MkII M77 .375 Ruger.

I'll bet remington could outsell Ruger 2 to 1 if they released a Remington 798 in 375 ruger. I know thats where my old herters J9 7mm mag is going to end up if in fact the cartridge, and barrels become available. The barrel makers that have barrels ready to go will cash in big time. Hope Lothar Walther is paying attention.

Weagle

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
I'll bet remington could outsell Ruger 2 to 1 if they released a Remington 798 in 375 ruger.

Weagle

That too may be in 2012 at the rate Remington is going. As far as I can tell they haven't sold a single one yet.

I have been encouraged however to hear that a few M-799 rifles are trickling out there.

Will the .375 Ruger feature:

1) a long enough magazine for mono solids and 350/380 gr bullets?
2) a longer throat/free-bore than the 375 H&H to reduce pressure?

If not:

1) What would be the benefit of a marginal increment in velocity for DRG hunting?
2) Would 375 H&H users really abondon their rifles and who would inhert them?

Going by the sales of the 375 RUM and the 375 Dakota, how has that affected the 375 H&H? It does offer more velocity, but more does one need than 2,400 fps for DRG hunting?

The .375 Ruger may have a sexy new look, shorter case, no belt, more blown out, sharper neck, etc - all making for longer case life. The design & efficiency of the .3785 Ruger case is not in question, but we should remember that the 375 H&H was originally designed with a long sloping case for safe & easy extraction from the chamber in a high pressure cartridge (+- 62,000 psi)for use in Africa (hot climate.

Chris

Chris,
this is said with alot of humor, not a negative post, but it could be read this way... after all, heh, what's the point of a "marginally" larger bullet than the 350HH magnum? but the 375 is the popular one, even though the 350 predates it.

quote:

Originally posted by truvelloshooter:
Will the .375 Ruger feature:

1) a long enough magazine for mono solids and 350/380 gr bullets?
2) a longer throat/free-bore than the 375 H&H to reduce pressure?

/[QUOTE]Chris, just like the 375HH normally doesnt, so if these are requirements, well, the 375HH is right out, then, right? and the 375 weatherby normally does.. but specs aren't released yet[QUOTE]

If not:

1) What would be the benefit of a marginal increment in velocity for DRG hunting?
2) Would 375 H&H users really abondon their rifles and who would inhert them?

overly specific questions... should be "will more people buy/build these than 375HH... which will probably be a YES as they are designed to fit into standard length actions. Even if loaded the 300gr at 2500fps, The question of marginal increment in velocity is self serving, in that it's both inaccurate (300FPS is more than10%) and leads to a negative inference... after all, what's the need of a "marginal" increase in bullet diamemter, and we should all be shooting 8x57s, right?

quote:

Going by the sales of the 375 RUM and the 375Dakota, how has that affected the 375 H&H?

I would imagine more rums have been sold BY REMINGTON than HH, the dakota is a niche product, and the 3 basic sellers of HHs in the US are cz, winchester, and ruger

quote:

It does offer more velocity, but more does one need than 2,400 fps for DRG hunting?

therefor what is the justification for the 375HH, as the 376 steyr gets there, with grace? Or the 375 webby, or 378 webby, or or or or

quote:

The .375 Ruger may have a sexy new look, shorter case, no belt, more blown out, sharper neck, etc - all making for longer case lifee. The design & efficiency of the .375 Ruger case is not in question,

But this is the rationale for the 375 ruger... everything else is preference

quote:

but we should remember that the 375 H&H was originally designed with a long sloping case for safe & easy extraction from the chamber in a high pressure cartridge (+- 62,000 psi)for use in Africa (hot climate.

55kpsi, the 62.kpsi is modern loading in the last coupel years. loading dicey powders, that presure spiked if handled too roughly during travel and under the heat. Modern powder obiate the need for the HH.... based off pressure issues

But the 375hH is the standard.. sure enough, but lets not get nailed up on preferences vs performance...
jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
Like Paul said. If it is the same bullet weight, same velocity as the Holland than it will have the same recoil in the same weight rifle.

Is this just another version of the WSSM for guys who want to shave .5 inches off the bolt throw?

The 376 steyr handloads matches the 375 hh FACTORY laods, with less recoil, as it's burning 20% less powder..

the 416 AR matches the 416 rigby, burning 33% less powder....

both kick less than their older caliber mates, in the same weight gun... or can be in lighter guns for the same recoil.

that .5" is about $1500/inch in overall gun cost.. a ruger, factory mkII, is about 520 bucks in any factory caliber that will fit it... the RSM, in 375, is about 1400 street price. pretty expensive lengthen


jeffe

jeff, what is the max oal for the mkII?
it is a good question on if you can do the 350 gr bullets or long monometal. can it do it on a reg mkII? if not would you need to go with a custom magazine? thanks. p.s. yer the best moderator here i hope you are getting paid well

Boomy,
without mod, the box is 3.4 inside, more or less.

jeffe

quote:

Will the .375 Ruger feature:

quote:

1) a long enough magazine for mono solids and 350/380 gr bullets?

There are no issues with mag boxes and mono solids. The correct mono solid does not need a longer mag box than the correct jacketed lead bullet as both are of similar length. It is a moot point though, the majority of these rifles will see use in the Americas and will be fed 250 to 300 gr softs.

quote:

2) a longer throat/free-bore than the 375 H&H to reduce pressure?

I would rather have a short throat/freebore and load accordingly, than have a long throat/freebore and the inevitable throat erosion that goes with it. Factory ammo will be pressure tested to work within limits, I am sure.

quote:

1) What would be the benefit of a marginal increment in velocity for DRG hunting?

Marginally better stability, penetration, momentum and energy. All this will improve the results on plains game, dangerous game and DRG hunting, whatever that might be.

quote:

2) Would 375 H&H users really abondon their rifles and who would inhert them?

No, they would not abandon them, but new buyers would have a wider choice. On second thoughts, I am sure this is a rhetorical question as it conjures up a picture of hundreds of 375 H&H owners flocking to chuck their rifles in a heap and then rushing off to go get a 375 Ruger. Kudus for a good sense of humour.

quote:

Going by the sales of the 375 RUM and the 375 Dakota, how has that affected the 375 H&H?

Logically every 375 RUM, Dakota and Ruger that is sold is a 375 H&H that is not sold. I would say these new 375s have a negative impact on sales of 375H&H rifles.

quote:

It does offer more velocity, but more does one need than 2,400 fps for DRG hunting?

If more speed works for plains game and dangerous game, I am sure it will work for DRG hunting as well. I googled DRG hunting and found this. You sure are getting into some weird stuff.

quote:

The .375 Ruger may have a sexy new look,

Not in the same league as this though.

quote:

shorter case, no belt, more blown out, sharper neck, etc - all making for longer case life. The design & efficiency of the .3785 Ruger case is not in question, but we should remember that the 375 H&H was originally designed with a long sloping case for safe & easy extraction from the chamber in a high pressure cartridge (+- 62,000 psi)for use in Africa (hot climate.

The Ruger does seem to be the better design and with the advent of a much wider choice of improved modern propellants, the sloping case of the H&H, with all of it's visual appeal, has served it's purpose. Good point.

Gerard,
I think you and I just 100% agreed on a thing....

lemme buy us a beer!!

jeffe

I will have a Windhoek Lager.

Cheers!

Guiness for me... or, if it's hot, bass!

jeffe

I'd agree with Jeffe, it will be a bit faster. As for the sloping case if you load the H&H hot, it will quite suddenly have extraction problems as the sloping case will set back worse against the bolt. I sure can't see any problems with the Ruger, previously a Mauser action had to have extensive opening (think Whitworth or FN) to make a reasonably light .375. This cartridge will make a portable .375 with more thump and a slightly extended range. My prediction is that the synthetic Alaskan version will be just that, a hot commodity with Alaskan hunters and may have more effect on the sales of .338's in Alaska than .375 H&H sales. That said, I will get one, but will keep my old Whitworth. The hard decision is whether I can force myself to rebarrel a custom FN .338 WM to this cartridge, if the Ruger is made as I expect, I'll just build on to my safe and have another rifle.

All this is interesting, but not one word of it leads me to think that that the new baby will do anything not allready done by the 9.3x64.
Admittedly cases and dies will be cheaper but that's about the only advantage. When it comes to the important bit, performance, the new baby will not do one little thing better.
I won't be selling my Frankonia 9.3x64 on a Mauser action to buy a Ruger.

Tother day when trying to shew the difference between a push feed and a control feed to a bloke new to shooting, a blank was inserted into a Ruger, in the hope that it would grip the case and demonstrate how the control works. The Ruger just pushed the case forward like a Remington! Bloody hell!
The blank was then put in a Kimber and a flawless demonstartion took place. The sad thing was that the Ruger had just been purchaed by the tyro who was not best pleased by the Rugers' performance. Two days later he traded the Ruger in. Another lost customer, I bet he never buys a Ruger again! And with the exception of a No1, neither will I.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:
Tother day when trying to shew the difference between a push feed and a control feed to a bloke new to shooting, a blank was inserted into a Ruger, in the hope that it would grip the case and demonstrate how the control works. The Ruger just pushed the case forward like a Remington! Bloody hell!
The blank was then put in a Kimber and a flawless demonstartion took place. The sad thing was that the Ruger had just been purchaed by the tyro who was not best pleased by the Rugers' performance. Two days later he traded the Ruger in. Another lost customer, I bet he never buys a Ruger again! And with the exception of a No1, neither will I.

There's a thread, IIRC, in African Hunting, the discussion is based on that! Of the Ruger line, only the Ruger Magnums have true CRF capabilities.

At this point, there is nothing I can say or do that will change what the 375Ruger will be; I'll just have to wait and see.

I can say that I've always liked the 375/338WM and the 416Taylor built off the standard Ruger magnum rifle. I'd prefer either of those over a converted to 375H&H Ruger (though that is not bad either). If this new 375Ruger carries and handles like their 338WM (I could care less about the recoil increase), if this new 375Ruger easily loads and feeds, and if this new 375Ruger comes close to the 375/338WM in performance.....THEN I'M GETTIN' A 375RUGER!!!!

GaryVA

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
[There's a thread, IIRC, in African Hunting, the discussion is based on that! Of the Ruger line, only the Ruger Magnums have true CRF capabilities.

The Ruger is a true CRF. It may not be tuned to maximize its potential out of the box and may need some deburring, polishing and flexing of the extractor, but they will CRF just like the Winchester and CZ.

I think I will just stick with Holland's version. To use a grammatically incorrect phrase, it works pretty good.
Doug

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:

Tother day when trying to shew the difference between a push feed and a control feed to a bloke new to shooting, a blank was inserted into a Ruger, in the hope that it would grip the case and demonstrate how the control works. The Ruger just pushed the case forward like a Remington!

the ruger will either push or crf, depending on how the shell is inserted, as along as it is a CFR ruger... there were some early mkii that were not crf, but could be made so.

all the current ruger mkii (except the rotary mag ones) are CRF and will feed from a loose round from the top...

just like people PAY for mausers and winchesters to be.

jeffe

The Ruger refered to above was a brand new 77MkII.
The round was inserted into the magazine in the same way as it was in the Kimber. The Kimber worked as it is designed to do, first time, the Ruger failed to control the round for three attempts.
Three failures to control is three too many for me.
You are free to choose what ever you like and your pocket can afford, me I won't be buying a Ruger 77.
In the first brand new 77MkII I bought, the bolt closed on a NO Go Gauge!

Gerard,
I agree with all you say except the throat thing. Sturm Ruger ought to use a .375 Wby throat (2001 version) on the .375 Ruger if they want it to really perform. That is only 0.3700" length of tight and parallel-sided freebore.

Thanks for the links. Love those bikinis and those Ruger Mark II M77's.

Sounds like the .376 Steyr all over again.

LLS

quote:

Originally posted by sierra2:
Sounds like the .376 Steyr all over again.

LLS

The Steyr has the same capasity as the 9,3x62/375 Hawk. Quite a step down from the .375 Ruger.

bent...

what do you think the case volume is and approx what charge would you do???

I can't understand why nearly everyone buys into
the hype. Whats so great about a .375 Ruger?
All the gunmakers & ammo companies do is come out with an uninspired, yes, uninspired, new product...only to make sales..their only aim. Yes sir, its OK to make sales...but if its a big improvement, OK. I doubt it in this regard. The big cigarette companies learned long ago...just introduce a new brand & whether or not, its good or not, the marketing people know a certain percentage will sell...simply from people just trying it.,,and thus a guaranteed sucesss. Same with the new cartridge developments....the short magnums..then the brass cases are thickened for the higher pressure...then harder to reload, etc. Then the ultra-mags...another sales pitch.
When one of the major ammo companies was approached by Remington...they went to the tech department, and asked for the most expert man there, what cartridges should they bring out anew? The learned expert told them point blank..bring out the vintage Newton cartridges again & it will be a Winner. But he was a real Pro, and the marketing people disregarded his advice...and brought out junk. And its still going that way...the bean counters & marketing people promote their junk...and the gullible, Oh yeah ! Its a new cartridge! The Brooklyn Bridge is still for sale. I fail to get excited about the "bean counters" and marketing promoters...not because I'm prejudiced...its just that they are basically charlatans. Instead of being honest & bringing out good products,,,they are prostituting themselves only to make big sales...they don't even know their history of what worked well & what didn't...they don't care,,,they will get enough that will try something "new", no matter what a sham it is, people will buy it. Its a silicon age, and sometimes I wish ...well I better shut up or get kicked off this site for an honest opinion.
New does not equate with=good. Old often does.
Illigimeti Non Corborundum.
Let someone explain to me why the hyped .375 Ruger is so good...if it is...I can accept it...but not just because its a new cartridge...it should have some outstanding merits.
Best regards,
Tom

kiff...

please expound???

what are the cart specs??? shoulder diameter neck length brass length ect!

Sounds to me like they reinvented the 376 Steyr.

How good is it, what's it good for??

It's a 375 caliber round that will exceed 375 H&H ballistics, in a case that will fit into a standard length action. A lot of people will convert guns to this cartridge. Lefties are screaming for this cartridge so that we can rechamber our extra 7 mm and 300 mags and get a "big bore cartridge".

Cartridge specs?

None have been released yet, except for the .532" casehead and body diameter, without a belt. With the same length as the 458, 338, 300 and 7 mag class of cartridges.

Will I buy one?

Probably not because I already own a 375 H&H but if they make the same case necked up to 423 or even 416, I'm interested.

As far as getting kicked off this site for expressing an opinion:

You must be new here, because Don and Saeed don't kick people off for anything like that. Only a few people have been kicked off the site and those instances involved questionable legal and ethical reasons. This site thrives on differences of opinions and some of the worst name calling and libelous behavior I have ever seen on the internet has occurred here without anyone being kicked off.

white bison....

yes it is a newton clone but the genious is simplicity. being 532 casehead and rim all you need is a barrel swap and ruger does not need to make bolts any diff than a 300 win mag. also the 375 is what most people can handle and still be d.g. compliant. i am sure beancounting was in the mix but at least ruger is not doing a winchester on us and going belly up. the newton was ahead of its time as you can see with the ruger and dakota.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oldun:
All this is interesting, but not one word of it leads me to think that that the new baby will do anything not allready done by the 9.3x64.
QUOTE]

I with you there oldun, The 9.3x64B I consider to be one of the the finest proportioned and very effective medium bore std.length action cartridges in exhistence.Combined with the stdM98,its hand in glove. It really dont get any better, PERIOD.
As fine as the 375H*H is, it need not really exhist, cause In comparison, it really started off behind the times.
I am glad to see a shorter not overly fat 375 cartridge come into being(375Ruger)Although the neck looks short.I see no reason for it to be so. Thats what bugs me about the 9.3x62mauser
Will 375-Ruger brass/ammo be like the 376Styer, ie; from one manufacture only?

9.3x64B, if you cannot do it with that,then you should probably be reaching for a 404J.


9.3 Link:
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=1379&magid=95

9.3x64B, Undeniably brilliant.




.......................8x68s............9.3x64B............375x68s Holderlin

I don't get the hype either. It looks like a fine round, in a sea of other fine rounds, but why tool up for a new case? It's just ten thou smaller than the 404; just use that! Oh, wait. Dakota already did. Why aren't people clambering to chamber that one? Norma makes perfectly useable brass and probably always will. And if you like what the Ruger is promising, the Dakota will best it by a hair.
And for the record, it's like two thou smaller than the Ross and three thou bigger than the Newton. Maybe all the Newton guys will have a new brass source - that's a good thing I suppose.
Come to think of it, how cool would it have been if they'd have just come out and called it the 375 Newton?
As it is, I have to say I'm nonplus'd, but even more just confused why everyone else seems so plus'd.

Bwana-be, I guess it's because two bigger companies collaborated on it, giving us a more readily available supply of rifles, brass and reloading equipment.
It also shows the hoopla of Ultra Mags are wearing off.
If Winchester had released the Dakota Line first we'd mostly be shooting them.
It took Weatherby a lot of years to reach popularity, even then it was mostly the 7mm and the 300. The big boom for them was when Remington released the two in rifle and cart.
Not everyone is willing to scour the countryside for brass and bullets and then pay a premium.
This I know because I now have a 9.3x64 and soon a 416 Rigby.

I find it interesting that Ruger has headed in this direction.

Ever since Dave Scovill had a Ruger Mark II converted to 375 H&H Here there have been numerous people including a fairly well known Alaskan bear guide, Phil Shoemaker, who have been pushing to see Ruger make such a production rifle.

Here is a quote from Phil about the rifle

"I am the lucky fellow that ended up with Scovill's ruger .375 and find it a wonderful rifle to use and carry. It is rapidly becoming my favorite .375. The work required is not difficult but would still be more expensive than an off the shelf stainless M-70. Unless we can persuade ruger to build them."

Phil Shoemaker

I would have been tempted to buy such a rifle myself. Now, it appears that Ruger has chosen to head in a totally diferent direction with new rifles and a cartridge of their own. I wish them luck, but for myself, I would have rather they had put the 375 H&H in their regular sized magnum action. I think they would have actually had better sales out of the box, especially now with what is going on with Winchester.

IF the .375 Ruger is to make an impact on the South Africans, it would be good to cater for the heavier and thus longer 350/380 gr bullets such as the likes of Rhino and Woodleigh that are so popular for buffalo hunting. For extreme penetration we do not need a solid weighing more than 300 grains at 2,400 fps - that is more than adequate and has proven it over decades. Bumping it to 2,700 fps and more (although some might like to achieve 3,000 fps +.)is a moot excercise. Doctari has already given his verdict that the 380 gr Rhino bullet is the most devastating bullet he has used so far and prefer it over any other 300 grain soft and he commented specifically about the large wound channel it creates ( bullet expands from 25 to 27 mm's). The throat erosion is minimal on a 9.3x62 with a long throat, I cannot see why it should be high on the .375 Ruger if loaded to 2,400 fps. Above 2,400 fps is moot. I rather have the lower operating temperature, chamber pressure by virtue of a longer throat combined with a mild load. The additional induced recoil to load to 2,700 fps has more negatives than positive and from a practical point of view of no value. Astute DG hunters will prefer custom loads rather than factory loads as they have more options for one, and for another, they can fine tune to their liking.

I also hope that Hornady is going to use premium grade controlled expansion soft bullets that can hold together at 2,700 fps. Flimsy bullets or non bonded bullets may just impair the cartridge's reputation.

The points I raised was in fact to make the .375 Ruger more appealing to a wider audience, especially the handloader. I have always liked/preferred the 9,3 x 62 over the 375 H&H as a personal choice. Lower pressure, can be built on std K98 actions without cutting metal away, lower recoil and bullet mass can be used up to the 325 gr Rhino bullet. I do not feel compromised in any way. More is not necessarily better. Despite my preference the 375 H&H nearly killed the 9.3x62 after the destruction of the MAUSER factory. My gut feeling is that Scandinavians will prefer the 9,3x64 over the .375 Ruger. That said time will tell if the .375 Ruger will essentially only be an American caliber - until then the jury is out.

Chris

The decision for a factory to introduce a new cartridge to its menu of chamberings is not a technical decision, it is a marketing decision.

The technical merits of the .375 Dakota and the 9.3X64 are unquestioned, but the marketing impact of either cartridge is miniscule. On the other hand Ruger and Hornady have the marketing capabilities to carry this off with ease.

I have a Steyr .376 in a Mannlicher rifle (as the factory now names them). Their marketing fetch in teh marketplace is even smaller than that for the Dakota/9.3X64 cartridges. Accordingly the .376 Steyr just limps along. The only chatter is from a few folks who use the cartridge.

Right, wrong or indifferent, Ruger has the capability to make this cartridge go.

jim

quote:

Will 375-Ruger brass/ammo be like the 376Styer, ie; from one manufacture only?

This question has been asked before by Woodjack, and I think quite a valid one for Scandinavians, Europeans and South Africans (not to mention the people far south). SA Importers of cases will be loath to import fledgeling cartidges without a sizeable following and that in itself, may render it a non starter in SA - quite a sad situation we have. Proprietory cartridges are inherently limiting and if Ruger is going to keep it close to its chest it may just be that the take off will be slow.

Chris