Now that I've found you...How long have I waited...how far will you go??? Your place or mine.

Far out...how do we get our "thingys" together when I get my "thingy" ready to ream? I guessing I won't be ready until Mar or April.

I have the slug designs in hand but can't get the mold ordered until I get the rifle barrel slugged...now probably after Christmas...the mold takes 3-4 weeks...I will get the 3.5" RMC brass ordered in a week or so. I have pieces and parts coming but this time of the year who knows when they will arrive.

Thanks

Luck

Send me a PM, tell me where you are located.

There seems to be enough variation in bore diameters, might be prudent to have you slug it to make sure I've got an appropriate pilot. PTG hasn't been exactly quick lately.

PM going.

Thanks

FOOBAR,
I've found a guy that has one of the HBBS Heat Crimpers.
He will be emailing me some close up pics and specs so we can build it in 20 ga.
He thinks we should be able to do it for about $100.
An uncrimped 3inch 20 ga plastic case with the 800 grain bullet set out to the crimp grove will sure give you a lot of room for powder and yet be very cheap.
The idea will work for 12 ga of course.

Cant wait for the email to come in.

Cheers, John

Who makes or sells that crimper. really be
neat with the 3.5" plastic cases I have
from the Hastings 20ga hotrod slug loads.

But you can rool crimp 3.5" cases and have same powder room as a 3" brass with round
nose slugs.Ed

Hi Ed,

The only one that you can just go out and buy is for a 410.
I'm getting the information so we can build it in 20 and 12 gauge.
The 410 version is at:
www.hoeningbigboresouth.com/HBBS_Heat_Crimper.html
Looks like it does a great job. Lets see if we can do as well in 20 and 12.

Cheers, John

That's great John...you got the jump on me, I was going to email Hoening to maybe get some info. It seemed to me to be just a scale up with the heater to fit the different sizers...if there are different sized heaters...the other electrical parts should work no matter what the size...might just be scalable to 10 - 8 ga???

Ed: Do you have any of those 3.5" 20ga cases to sell? I would like a few to play with if I decide to ream out to 3.5". I'm still having a big hoohaa with me, myself and I as to that issue.

I lucked out and found a bullet caster about 75 mile away in a town I go to for various reasons a few time a year.

Things are rolling along and the road is smoothing out. I LIKE IT.

Luck

FOOBAR,
It sure would not hurt to contact them for some Operational information. Such as; setting up the die (it looks a little different than normal), operating temp and just how long do you hold it in there.

I don't believe in depending on One source of information, get all you can.

Cheers, John

FOOBAR,
PM me your email address so I can forward these emails to you.

Cheers, John

John...you have May-yel.

I have no brass 3.5" 20s to spare.
That is why I got a case of the 3.5
loaded hotrod Hastings, 75 cents each.
Dave at RMC is back to work now,
so order some. He was laid up from
accident for a time.Ed

Ed:

Is that loaded ammo or just cases or what you paid for them?

I'll take 25 of the Hastings 3.5" plastic if you're selling.

I talked to Dave last month about the 3.5" brass and will get both 3" and 3.5" cases ordered from him sometime this week.

If your selling let me know and I will PM you for payment/shipping information.

Thanks

Luck

No I can't sell any, none to spare.
but there are guys on Gunbroker selling them. They
work in the great Beretta style single barrel
20 the youngest grandson will be using next year.Ed

I see...thanks for the link. I will check it out.

Luck to your grandson for a successful hunt.

Luck

A few more boolits. I did the one in the middle about noon today with the temp in my shop at 20°. I'm surprised it turned out as well as it did...NOTHING was working very well, including me. I think I'm done mucking about the garage until it warms up a bit.

Just a scaled up copy of Michaels picture of that very cool 535gr SN FN, but with an added sharp edged nose cup. Came out at 900 gr and 1.77" long. Once band/groove can be removed and shortened to 1.52" and about 750 gr.

I think the shuttlecock shape is cool...might scale it up to 650gr and see how it works...kinda looks like the slug they used in an airgun in a movie about killing General Patton.

Did you make the one on the left a hollow base to be a forward center of gravity for those barrels without twist?

No hollow base or for smoothbores. Sticking to rifled barrels for the present.

With the problem with the solid brass slugs going sideways, I decided to forget doing anything in that area until after messing about with the rifled barrel.

Maybe if I can find a cheap cylinder bore 20 ga barrel to fit either the Mossy or 870 or a real cheap NEF with a bore I can ream to cylinder, I might play a bit...I think the 20 ga barrel will fit and fire but it will be single shot only...none of the other pieces and parts will fit and the 12 ga magazine will definitely be a sloppy fit for the 20 ga shells.

Not sure if a full choked is the right platform to play with brass slugs...definitely have to be careful about a brass bullets OD and the thin muzzle walls.

I've come across a couple of cheap Stoeger 20ga O/U's that look fairly good and if I pick one of those up I might nip the choke off the High Standard and play a while...then I can put an adjustable choke on it...been wanting to do that for 30 odd years but never got a round toit.

I've shot up quite a few of Gardners Cashe 12 ga 525gr Lyman slugs and they seem to do fine and upset very nicely. There OD is ~0.682" at the nose and 0.668" on the skirt. Might be able to make a sizer to get them down to 0.625", or set up on centers and turn them down and shoot them without a wad in the 20ga rifled.

Always something interesting to do and play with isn't there.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:I will get the 3.5" RMC brass ordered in a week or so.

I've got an extra unopened box of them here if you're wanting some, or all.

SOLD...I will PM you.

Called David at RMC but his accident still has him down. I will call again in a month or so.

Thanks

My handloads with custom 20-ga brass cases

My two 20-ga Thompson Center TCR's

But I usually shoot deer with Hornaday SST's

What happened to Dave?

The info was on his answering machine...I didn't inquire beyond that.

What is the mouth ID on those cases???


Nice buck,IOWADON...how did he taste?

Nice shooters also. Stubby little rascal, that one...bet it snorts also.

What bullet/slug weights, load, velo and all that jazz. Nice expansion on that one slug for sure!!!! Pure lead or ????

Luck

FOOBAR - I don't think I ate him but gave him to my son who don't mind the taste busks. I eat the does. His back-straps measured 4-3/4 inch across at the widest spot so made some big steaks. We refer to the stubby gun as "Stubby". My son said he wanted a real compact one so I had the barrel made up 18-1/4 inch long for him to use. It bucks up with recoil and makes more noise. I prefer shooting the one with the longer barrel with its better balance for more accurate off-hand shooting. The brass is custom made by Rocky Mountain Cartridge. Primers are Fed 219 and the bullets are from a mold which is a shortened version of one for a .600 Nitro and weigh 720 grains from pure lead. With 45 grains of AA5744 the velocity is 1000 fps with what appears very low pressure. That well mushroomed bullet was one shot into dirt but in the only deer shot with the 720-grain bullet there appeared to be no expansion at all. I had some bullets hollow-pointed with a 3/8th inch drill which reduced the weight to 550 grains and loaded them to 1330 fps with 60 grain of AA5740. That short cylinder of lead is what was left of the only one of those bullets used to shoot a deer. It was a frontal shot at a bedded deer and the bullet destroyed some backbone before ending up in the gut. The deer never got up. With 70 grains of AA5744 the 550-grain hollow point velocity is 1520 fps but recoil is higher and I figured it might be better to keep pressure lower. If I zero the gun for 150 yards with Hornaday SST slugs the 720-grain bullets hit dead on at 50 yards and the 550-grain hollow point bullets hit dead on at about 75 yards. Anyway, I just ude the heavy bullets for plinking but they are fairly accurate giving small 2-inch groups or better at 50-yards. - DON

Don

Good of you to chime in.

Foobar.

Don was nice enough to give me some of those 720 grainers to play with.
Rocky Mountain Cartridge has not given me a date for delivery yet, I sent my chambers casts to them months ago.

So I have nothing to report yet.

Johan at Accurate worked up some loads for me for the slugs and the copper solids I am going to play with, but I was waiting for the RMC brass.

Nitro

NITRO450EXP - I expect you will be very satisfied with the fit of the RMC brass. I understand they will last many loadings if the pressure is kept within their limits. That would be especially true if re-sizing between loads is not needed. The necks of those made for me do not even need re-sizing between loadings as the brass is not expanded past the elastic limit of the metal. - DON

Thanks Don, Nitro.

It's unfortunate about Dave at RMC's problems, hopefully he will have a speedy recovery.

Yeah...Rutty bucks are sometimes REALLY nasty tasting AND smelling...I haven't shot anything but a skin head in so long I wouldn't know what to do with the horns now. At least they're good to use as handles.

I've been fiddling with molds and bullet profiles, mostly in the 600-800 gr range...one for roll crimped plastic cases and one for brass cases. I might have something working to use a heater to crimp the plastic cases which will solve the two bullet delima. Most of my brass bulletS are running from 600 to 750 gr, but I'm still refining that process also.

I've come up with quite a few good loads using QL...I like 80-100% fill loads...the problem is the weight of the powder...100 grains plus which adds to the recoil level.

That 45 gr AA5744 load is showing 7257 PSI roughly speaking in QL, not knowing the bullet length or case capacity I used 1" long and 220 for case capacity. That came out a little over 1100fs so that "guess" data is fairly close...cuts the recoil leved down quite a bit also. You don't get up to 20KPSI until around 75 gr and 1700fs.

My problem is I can't find AA powders of ANY kind in my area...have to go about 100 miles and that is even iffy...and the only gunstore that will order it waits until he has a big order, maybe twice a year. I want to try it in my 50-90 also.

Thanks again for the info...I like that bullet profile, and it is easy to cast so I might just quit messing about with truncated cone profiles...or not.

Luck

I might be out of line here but I found this nice article on the 577 light nitro and his load with IMR 4198 might be a good reference point.
www.rbsiii.com/PaperPatchedBullets/index.html
I like his filler, never used it before but it looks good.

Cheers, John

Might be tough to flare the mouths of the RMC case; at least the ones I just received.

My old standby plinker is 70grs of IMR-4198 w/ my 800gr cast flat nose for about 1500fps---accurate & mild recoil but w/ a bunch of impact :-)

http://youtu.be/9xL1NuUO5WU

Yep, that should thin out the Hog population from ANY angle.

Cheers, John

ALL/ANY information is good information, John...IF USED in a good way...or bad way, depending on your perspective.

I came across that particular article when I was checking out using PPB in my 50-90...Probably one of the best articles I read on the subject; It gave me a lot to think about, answered most of my questions on the subject and was just really totally interesting reading. It would certainly be nice to have a weapon like that...to shoot or just to look at.

Sometime in the future when I've worked through the present doings and settled down a bit, I will go to work on that aspect also...along with my Sharps. Finding/buying a mold to use or lead rods to form somewhere around 0.600"...CHEAP...I can't afford Corbin's offerings just yet...is on the top my todo list.

Probably the best thing to do with RMC brass is to have the mouth ID turned slightly larger and tapered a bit so the bullet will enter without tearing the paper far enough to put a slight "grab" on the base...or have the mold made with a slight taper to the bullet like in the "olden days" of PPB shooting. Should be easy enough to make a tapered punch for that matter.

Information, scaling, problem solving, strange new wildcats...all grist for the mental mill.

Thanks All for the information

Luck

On my RMC bras I chamfer the inside so
slugs go in without peeling lead But yet
has a tight fit below the chamfer.
And on some where the mouth expanded with
hotter loads, I annealed if needed and sized them back
for a real tight fit. It is too hard to get a little
roll crimp effect on that thick of brass. Ed

Thanks Ed...that's what is so great about the Big Bore forum...it is crammed full of knowledgeable people, most of which have "beentheredonethat" and have already solved most of the problems.

Some pics of the heater adapter I'm hoping to get working...trying to get Ed Hoening at Hoening Big Bore South, L.L.C., http://www.hoeningbigboresouth.com/, interested in adding this 20ga plastic case heater and a 12 ga plastic case heater to his excellent 410 heater...maybe Encore barrels also.

I've emailed a couple of times and sent drawings but haven't heard back...maybe the time of the year...or?







Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

Luck

Rifle came in yesterday...a day early...slugged the barrel and made a chambe cast...0.625" groove, 0.615 bore...very nice 0.375" long, 5° taper on the throat.

Took an hour wait on the phone to get cleared by the BATF girl...well over 3500 requests per hour going in almost every day this week...and there were 4 others standing in line behind me. Dave and Bill had people standing two deep buying stuff and making calls.

The heater is proceding apace. Final design drawn up but it's been down to Zero at night and freezing or less during the day so my lathe is a lonely boy for a while.

Will get a mold ordered next year when things settle down a bit...tried ordering some pieces and parts and the ether is so full I keep getting knocked off. Dialup is a total.....could always be worse...the satellites could come down and THEN what would happen....15 century all over again.

Luck

FOOBAR,
It'd be nice if old Saint Nick brought you a nice stove for that shop. Nicer still if you could warm your coffee on it.

Damn cold makes my hands hurt like sin.

Cheers, John

Problem is no chimney for the fat man in the red suit to come down...Be better if he just stuck the winning Lotto numbers behind the front screen door. Then I would build a real shop and populate it with REAL machinists, then I could just watch, delegate and drink espresso...and get in the way like the other rich bichz.

Cold only lasts 3-4 months and I need some R&R by this time anyway. I get pretty well burned out playing with my shooters by this time of the year and the winter also rejuvinates my savings account for the next years run.

I'm gonna quit this stuff in another 20 years or so and just watch football.

Luck

Pieces and parts still coming in...mold and brass on order but at least 2 months out.

Worked up to 140 gr of 7828 and 625-700 gr brass bullets...near 18KPSI and ~1650fs/~4300 ft with 2.96" Cheddite cases and 700 gr slugs. That pressure is as high as I will go with these cases.

The case pops out without any sign of sticking or damage to the plastic, but shows a bulge in the case in the shape of the ejector cutout at that pressure. I would like to get my hands on some new Federal cases to see how they work.

One case had a primer burn through in the firing pin dimple. Reloaded 2 cases 3 times each working up from 120 gr 7828. Brass base expanded to 0.702" from 0.695". I used a PGS and felt filler wad to bring COAL to ~3.60 to 3.72" and eliminate air space...the cases had black soot half way down the case sides.

The longer nosed bullets were producing oblong holes, but the shorter nosed slugs left a nice round hole. I keep playing with slug designs.

So far this is the winter with very little snow and not all that cold, around my digs...not very good. Hasn't dropped below zero yet which is really weird.

The heater should be here Monday next, all the rest of the pieces are ready to wire up and plug in. Hope it will work as right now the slugs are seated 0.500-0.650" deep and just barely held and the Cheddite cases will collapse if I get too macho on the press handle trying to get some kind of a crimp.

Rifle w/scope/MB weigh 8.84 lbs and the MB really helps keep the muzzle from raring up...recoil is basically straight back and VERY quick now.

I need to drill a hole in the thumbhole stock to install the OEM steel 1.2 lb weight slug. Depending on the balance I might need to make a slightly larger OD/longer/heavier MB to balance...this one has ~0.110" walls x ~1.15" OD x ~2.25" long and doesn't weigh much. Those additions should bring the weight up to ~10- 10.5 lbs.

The trigger is atrocious as far as pull weight is concerned...but crisp, so it will get stoned today along with the pins and holes plus the return spring replaced with a lighter one.

Luck

You need a MEC Super Sizer with 20ga collet
in it. That will bring base back to specs,
and it won't expand as easy after sizing.
They will be better than new.
I have one with 12ga collet, and you can put
all different collets in it.Ed

FOOBAR,
You are doing great. You have equalled the 577 Light Nitro power in plastic cases.
I see better things comming with the heat crimper. Getting a better powder burn and such.

Cheers, John

Thanks Ed, John...

I'm using a Lee 20ga Load all sizing ring that takes almost all that bump out. I've been looking at that Super sizer for quite a while now, and keep looking for a used one(that's not happening) Haven't done enough 12 or 20 ga shooting to justify it until now. I don't expect to get much higher than 17-17.5KPSI until I find a stronger based case, and would only use a new case for hunting.

Fired off a couple more this am with 135 gr 7828...QL said a tad over 16KPSI, 1595fs and 3952 ftlbs...no bump. This toy is making my other big bores seem a bit peekid.

I need to get a protector shield made for my chronos so I can get some real numbers.

Ran a few other powders through QL and 108gr AA2495 hit 1764fs/4837 ftlbs at 17336 PSI. A LOT less powder, about the same calculated recoil and 700 more ft lbs...that's NICE.

Pretty amazing coming from a 2.96" plastic case.

About the same pressure/velo as my 50-90 Sharps but ~200 grains more weight...but go with the same 34" barrel length and it would hit almost 2000fs and 6000ft lbs with the same load.

I gotta quit this thinking stuff, my head is beginning to hurt again.

Yeah John, it a bit foreign to me to wander around with the muzzle pointing up to keep the stuffins from falling out.

Someone with some long stroke needs to talk to the right people and get those 3.5" plastics back in production.

Won't quite reach 600 OK even with brass cases, but it sure gets close to the 600 H&H, and can still have a drink with the Big Boys as long as it doesn't talk and sits in the back....

A few of the brass slugs I dug out of my sandbox. They are skinned up a bit and the cup point mashed some. Every one of them turned or ended up pointing a different direction than straight but they would definitely do the job.



Luck