WELL RATZ...The fancy laminated H&R thumbhole stock cracked today...or probably yesterday and I didn't notice it until I started taking it apart to do the trigger job. Cracked horizontally through both sides.

I should have installed the bedding/bearing pillar before I started and when I first looked at the stock and said "better install a bedding pillar before you start". I never seem to remember what I learned.

It will be easy to fix and will go on the 6 BR.

Did learn something I was wondering about tho'...the 20 ga USH barrel chamber OD is smaller than the 12 Ga USH barrel OD and the frames are slightly different...BUT...the 20 ga barrel DID fit the 12 Ga frame and locked up tight, the 12 ga aftermarket forend fit the 20 ga barrel and would lock a 0.002" shim between the 20 ga barrel face and the 12 ga frame face....but the 12 ga barrel WOULDN'T fit the 20 ga frame. Time for another Gunstocks Int solid walnut thumbhole and forearm.

I might just do that stub barrel 620 Hellboy 30-34" barrel project now, using a 10 ga barrel if I can come across a cheap one. Give my 50-90 Sharps a run for it's money and REALLY turn up the heat with brass cases. Think I will add a little more total weight while I'm at it.

That aftermarket rollover cheekpiecee and biggest, widest, thickest recoil pad I could find sure made the recoil much easier to take.

Fired off a 700 gr brass slug with 95 gr AA2495 load that was ~13,4KPSI/1588fs according to QL but it stuck the case and had "the HUMP". This case was fired 4 times so maybe the brass is tired...I will try one with a new case and see what happens.

There's always a lesson a minute in this game.

This one is holding my interest a bit better over the 12GaFH...probably because the recoil isn't as brutal. After an afternoon of absorbing who knows what amount of energy cranking off those 800-1200 gr loads, I had to eat a full of strong pills and take a nap...till the next day. But I still have a few more 800-1100 gr loads I need to test...someday.

Luck

Things are moving along, albeit slowly on this project. The weather turned cold, snowy, then rainy...all I've been getting done is learning TurboCad, a new 2D/3D drawing program. TurboCad also has TurboCadCam...a program that renders TurboCad drawings into G-code and into a CNC machine directly...or so I understand. Awesome.

The Beartooth .622 - 1040g(actual weight 1035g)bullets arrived. I turned off the bases on a few to 900g, 800g and 750g weights...The mold should be here in a couple more days...got the UPS notification.

Finished the heater and did a couple dummies in 12 and 20 ga...Basically copied the HBBS 410 Heater but used a PID digital heat controller instead of the analog unit.

It works great for the pointy bullets, but not sure the $100 bucks for the pieces and parts, for one size plus another $25-35 for the other nozzle heater...plus the work on the "heater/squeezer" dies for FN/RN/stubby "ashcan" types of bullets is/was worth it. A modified roll crimper like Lefteris offers/uses will work just as good or better.

Using the heater does give you the additional case capacity equal to the contour length of the pointy part of the bullet, but that additional volume isn't much good as you hit the pressure limit of the plastic cases very quickly and all available velo in a roll crimped case.

Here's a pic of the dummies and the modified BT bullets, and a TurboCad drawing of my next project. The coming mold is similar to RIPS bullet shape, but only 700 gr.





Anyway it was an interesting project. I won't get a supply of cast lead bullets for another month or so and won't get any real load data until the weather cooperates.

I want to thank John(Phatman) for his help. I haven't heard from fireball 168. Hope his health problems didn't turn worse/bad...AND all the others that fed me info.

Luck

Thanks - I'm OK - just tied up between building a new house & shop, trying to find things that were packed - whew.

I've got your brass laying here ready to ship, will get it out shortly.

Glad to hear your OK...Too often we hear of problems, but hardly ever a followup as to the outcome.

I PM'ed my address.

I'd give at least $1000.00 to be one of them thar millionaires...so I could at least add heat to my shop....Hahahahahahah

Luck with your endeavor.

FOOBAR,
Your the Man, I knew if anyone could pull off reverse engineering the heater/crimper it would be you.
Hey, Post a pic of it!!!!

On another note:
Have you considered going to a double base ball powder???
I'm thinking more propellant weight for the same space here.
I have no idea what the burn rate would be though.

Cheers, John

I'll get some pics posted soon...I melt in the rain and freeze in the snow...your basic wuss-out.

It wasn't much of a stretch to follow pictures and do a bit of upgrading. Trying to find the nozzle heaters was the hardest...I didn't know what they were called so I spent several days trying to get the nomenclature right...once I learned the right name and what they were actually used for, it was a piece of pie.

The PID was even easier...just looked up heater controller and got run over by the number of sellors...they are used in/on all kinds of electronic thingy-doodles...best way to fix up a lead casting pot that burned out it's heater controller.

With the Cheddite plastic cases I stay around 16KPSI to keep from sticking cases. They are definitely only one or two shot units at the higher pressures.

I'm dancing around several powders to get the right combo between velo, pressure, and recoil for a 750 gr cast lead or brass slug.

100%/180 gr load of RL-50 hits 13KPSI/1400fs but isn't quite fast enough and REALLY kicks with all that powder...146gr RL25 hits 1600fs/16KPSI and still kicks very good. 108gr of AA2495 gives 1695fs at 16.2KPSI and is getting much better at slap city, but only 69% case volume and needs almost an inch of filler, plus the added weight of the 1/2" filler wads, 11gr ea, if I heat crimp the bullet only 1/2" deep.

Roll crimping is another possibility.

All these loads give very high energy levels...the AA2495 load runs right at 4800ftlbs.

Compare these loads to a 600 N.E. on Reloadersnest really opens the eyes...roughly half the energy of the 900 gr top loads...not bad out of a 20 ga with a lighter weight bullet.

It will be interesting to see what transpires when I get the brass cases and can run the pressure up around 23-24KPSI.

Luck

Use RE17 to get max speed with least base
cup expansion, as it get to peak easier than
IMR stick powders, and the few AA powders
that act like stick powders. No AA from 2520
on down for me, they expand cases and base cups
as bad as IMR. Those plastic cases can take
fairly high peak pressures without expanding as
much like they do with shotgun powders,
if they don't get to that peak in
40 milliseconds as opposed to 90 ms.
Re17 should with close to as much as your RE25
load, and not stick the case.
Could you measure base cup dia before and after
and are they plated steel or copper, check
with magnet. Steel expands less . Ed

These 3" Cheddite have a "HiBase" brass colored STEEL base.

New case 0.695" fired ~0.698" with 120gr H4831/750g brass slug...popped right out but the pressure was only ~10.5KPSI according to QL with a Pmax at 0.941ms.

The cases started sticking after 2-4 firings and at ~0.702" expansion then resized back to 0.698"...the chamber ID is 0.702". The steel base must not have much of a spring back.

Weather is still making a mess of things...I can't get to my reloading shack without getting in the muck.

QL gives some flat curves for AA2495...the one load I posted has a Pmax of 1.137ms...3.425" COAL/~760gr bullet/filler ejecta/16.5KPSI/~68% fill/2.96" case.

Looks like AA2495 could get to 2000fs at ~19KPSI with 125gr, ~80% fill, 750 gr slug, Pmax 0.960ms, COAL of 3.44" and .980" bullet. Might using new cases and slipping up on it slowly and quietly.

RL-17 would be very close also.

116gr RL-17 shows Pmax at 0.814ms at 16.2KPSI/66% fill for the same COAL/bullet weight.

The brass slugs seem to do better...at least the ones with multiple narrow bands...they are longer per gr by about 35% given similar nose profiles and meplats, so take up more case volume. Not sure how to handle that lower drag function in QL....by guess and by golly??

Once I get to load test I will post whatever I come up with including QL data. Probably won't do much chrono work...I've bashed too many sky screens, wooden rods and diffusers even WITH a "protector" in front...the wads always seem to take out the rear pieces and parts, with or without "protection".

Luck

Does your heat crimping put the slug in tight
enough so you can't pull it out with pliers.
If so I'd stay with that. If not you got to roll crimp.
That means loss of space, which I solved deepening
chamber to 3.5". And we do need the room for
some cushioning, to keep peak pressures down.

20ga bases are shown in COTW at .690" on the base.
Hastings,REM and FED I have here are about.692"
Do you have MEC Super Sizer.
They are collet type and can get steel base back
to the .692" size on the base cup.I do the collet
sizing bit about 6 strokes per sizing,
not just once, and turn case about 1/4 turn
between pushing the handle. Only takes
a few seconds. And it makes case as strong as new.

If you have to use new case for every shot, that isn't bad
deal at 15 cents for primed cases, and I know if cases
have base size as new, you can go higher with the
RE17. I'd only reload per new 20ga case, two times
only, at these higher pressures..
I even size new ones with MECas some factory processes
don't get cases perfect all the time..Ed

I've only heat crimped a few so far...still working to find the best temp and "holding" time.

The heat forms the plastic into the upper bullet grooves and over and around any nose taper or shoulder, which depends partially on the nose profile and how deep the bullet is seated. The crimp is roughly 0.420" - 0.450" long...again, depends on the temp and holding time...

The 12ga lead bullets hold tighter than the 20ga brass, I can't spin or push the 12ga down into the empty case...I can spin the 20ga brass bullet in the one 20ga dummy, but it is held fairly tight...I would have a hard time pulling it out, plus it was the first heat crimp I did on a 3 times fired case. That needs to be considered. That slug had 4 - 0.060" wide lands and 3 - 0.200" grooves. Again these are "problems" that can/will be "corrected" by testing.

Roll crimping has been around a long time and is proven to work...and as you said using a roll crimped 3.5" case in either ga gives you basically the same case volume as a heat crimped 3" case.

I think I included a shoulder on the bullet mold I ordered, as a "cutting" edge and for both the "rolledover" lip to contact when roll crimping and also for the plastic to form over when heat crimping...Won't know until the mold gets here...I drew up so many designs and used Mountain Molds bullet design so many times I'm not sure right now WHICH design I ended up ordering.

I use David Cushmans "Shotgun Cartridges, by Caliber and Loading page... http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/shotshellloads.html ...for information on shotgun case dimensions for the most part. It has all the gauge info in one concise page.

I use the Lee Load-all sizer rings and so far they have worked well enough...no problem with resizing to fit the chamber...I also use a bit of sizing wax to make things go smoother.

I keep thinking about buying a Mec Super Sizer, but can't justify the cost yet. I can buy 5 times more new cases to use than I will ever use anyway, for WAY less money than buying 2 Super Sizers.

This heat crimping shows promise, but for the component costs/construction time I don't think it's really worth anything but the knowledge gained...especially if you can't make the "squeezer" die yourself. I haven't ran a patent search so I don't know if I'm in deep stuff or not...shouldn't be unless I try to sell the things. Hahahahahah.

But it IS DIFFERENT and has a certain amount of "coolness"/bragging rights attached.

Luck

Pics of the heater/crimper.

Complete setup



12ga brass heater/crimper, nozzle heater, PID unit.



20ga AL heater/crimper in press, nozzle heater, temp sensor.



Rear of PID unit showing wiring and nozzle heater connections.



12ga heater/crimper showing "polarized" connections...each nozzle hooks together polarized the same as to hot/return lines connected to PID unit and 1/4-20tpi temp sensor mounting hole.



12ga(red) and 20ga(yellow) in CH4D shell holder and Lee 20ga sizer ring.


Luck