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so your answer to my question is "yes"? | |||
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Easyman Not too many weeks left in the hunting season Why do you waste time with these people ? это пиздец HAHAHA | |||
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can't wait the day after tomorrow - we'll have red fox hunt ...driven..  это не просто пиздец - я реально угораю! | |||
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...these people...???? Would some or all of we North American hunters here be the people to whom you refer? The VERY SAME ...people... whom you have often asked for assistance with hunting on OUR continent???? | |||
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I think my point was more I'm supprise you even wanted to bring Russia's attempted ocupation of Afgahnstan and the attempted gynocide/murder of it's people regardless of hostle intent, sex, or age. Talk about a GIANT back eye in your history. Kind of like the US and slavery (black eye wise). As to resentment I guess that's up to you. Personally I happen to think us helping the Afgahns to defeat Russia was a good thing. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Wow! This is interesting. I totally support our military. My father was in the Korean war. I have a brother who is ex special forces . I have a nephew that is headed to Afghanistan in March. I also believe the Iranian government is problematic forth entire world. Having said that, I am not at all certain that going hunting in Iran is going to result in any additional deaths. I think I would go if I was satisfied about the security situation. The thing that would worry me most would be what would happen if Iran was attacked or Iran attacked someone while I was there. I have a few other miscellaneous comments. I once dated an Iranian woman. As a result, i met a number of Iranians living in the US and became naturalized citizens. They all said the same thing. The average Iranian on the streets loved Americans. Any American there would be treated very well. On the other hand, they also said that did not apply to the government . As long as an American didn't do something really stupid, they would be perfectly safe. i have to say that every single one of these people were incredibly nice people. Now for our friends from other countries. It is easy for you all to have a negative view of some of the US's actions. You weren't attacked. We were. And for our Russian friends, why is it that Russian arms dealers show up in virtually every conflict and 3 rd world hell hole? Where did they get these weapons? Have the Russians invaded anywhere lately? It is easy to criticize the US. The fact of the matter is that virtually every country comes to us when ever there is a problem of any type and we usually foot a majority of the cost. | |||
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"I have a few other miscellaneous comments. I once dated an Iranian woman. As a result, i met a number of Iranians living in the US and became naturalized citizens. They all said the same thing. The average Iranian on the streets loved Americans. Any American there would be treated very well. On the other hand, they also said that did not apply to the government . As long as an American didn't do something really stupid, they would be perfectly safe. i have to say that every single one of these people were incredibly nice people." Larry that's been my exact same experience with Persians and their exact same take on Iran. "And for our Russian friends, why is it that Russian arms dealers show up in virtually every conflict and 3 rd world hell hole?" ...because they are whores! Like I said earlier we can't do anything with North Korea or Iran because every time the civilized world tries to impose sanctions the whores from Russia and China come out of the wood work! It's so predictable it's nauseating! Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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The unfortunate reality is that the Iranians do have reasons to dislike us. Our support of SAVAK in the Shah's days resulted in a lot of brutality on the people. It was a long time ago. Some people will probably still remember. Plus our support of Saddam in the Iran/Irag war. | |||
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That is utterly specious. And watch who you're calling a whore, as that moniker may bounce back to tar even you and your values. Not to pick on you, in particular, of course. This thread was commenced in jest against those who equate hunting with foreign policy. Hunting is the opposite of that. It's personal interaction, and is far more powerful than abstract geopolitics and government vs. government. I'm as patriotic as the next guy, and the son and grandson of veterans, and one who fiercely supports our troops in the field. But the reason the Russians do what they do is because they have more Kalashnikovs and RPGs than they can use, and because selling them makes economic sense and is in their national interest. Just as we have done with our arms and armaments in the past and still do even today. Why don't you count up the tin pot, despotic dictators our country has supported over the years, with arms and money, in OUR national interest. Including, BTW, to name one of the worst, Saddam Hussein, may he rot in Hell. And while you're at it, why don't you count up the number of innocents these despots have killed? My advice: Don't throw stones. You live in a glass house, whether you like it or not. Larry, great posts. Perspective here is what's needed. To suggest that anyone who would hunt in Iran is a supporter of terrorists is wrong, misguided and a bloody libel. I am on the verge of requesting that the moderators move this thread to the political forum, where there is no perspective but that of the cut-throat. Hunting is not, and should not, absent malice, be trumped up as anything near or resembling geopolitics. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Mike, I agree that I'm throwing stones in a glass house with regards to selling arms to third world countries. In regards to screwing the rest of the world by breaking/derailing sanctions agains North Korea and Iran I still say whores........ I also agree that stating hunting in Iran equals sponsoring terrorism is a little much. I also agree it's probably better for the political forum. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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to whom you refer? [/QUOTE] I appologise if I did not make it very clear I was referring to you JUST YOU or who ever signs on as DEWEY Kindly put me on your ignore list Regards and appreciate it very much.[/QUOTE] | |||
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This thread is amaizing...I had no idea of really HOW you were brainwashed during the Cold War era and still are.. OK< I can realise that you picked up info from your that-time TV but now you have access to internet and can at least compare and duscuss differnent points of view. I am really shocked - is that real America? Is anyone who thinks in a different way automatically becames anti-American? No, can't believe it... "genocide"(c) of the civilians - did you mean GIs in Vietnam? using napalm and Agent Orange against the non-combatants? or Iraq - severel hundreds thousand dead civilians and tortures in jails? or inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? or you just want to put all the shit on somebody different? PS "Russian" weapons trader shipped them from Bulgaria - a NATO-member country, btw...according to YOUR mass-media... and - yes, we were attacked: apartment blocks blown up in our cities(including Moscow) and attacks in underground(Moscow tube)... | |||
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Mr. Robinson, Extremely well said. Kudos! People are people and governments are governments. In our own constitution, our founders didn't trust government or they wouldn't have written the checks and balances into it. If there were a group of people I despise, it would be my own who eat the free cake our forefathers left us and then bitch about not enough frosting. | |||
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Just because you say this doesn't make it so. How can you say with a stright face that some percentage of hunters/tourists funds are not being used to finance the Iranians political agenda and foreign policy? If those in this discussion would put there personal desires aside, I would like to hear a legitimate argument that refutes the following facts; 1) Iran is a state sponsor of terror through Hezbollah in Syria and Lebanon, Hamas in Israel, Jihadis in Iraq, etc., etc. 2) Iran has and is supplying Jihadis in Iraq with the technology and hardware to murder American soldiers in order to help defeat America in its war in that country. 3) Some percentage of every penny spent by hunters/tourist in the Iranian economy goes to the Iranian Government through taxes, fees, etc..
1) It is not, It is, actually, a fact, see above. Still, no one has answered my question, would you hunt Markhor or Ibex with the Taliban or AlQaeda in Pakistan? How is this ANY different? | |||
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I didn't realize the taliban or al qaeda had a government or specific country. | |||
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they are in specific countries, my point is what is the difference in funding an entity (even by proxy) that is using those funds to fight and kill your own? | |||
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I appologise if I did not make it very clear I was referring to you JUST YOU or who ever signs on as DEWEY Kindly put me on your ignore list Regards and appreciate it very much.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE] I can't be bothered to put you on ignore, but, I do find it rather ironic and all too typical of your kind that, not long ago, you were seeking my assistance with hunting here in my country, Canada. This, is the kind of duplicitous, self-seeking behaviour that I have learned to expect from your ilk. Perhaps, you might learn to write correct English as your comment actually refers to several people, not just me. | |||
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That is the crux of the argument, IMO and I would not hunt in one of the nations that "host" the Islamic terrorists for that reason. Each person must, of course, make their own decisions in this regard, but, choosing "the high road" and being a true patriot is never wrong and always the honourable alternative. The comment above by this Russkie concerning the bombing of the Jap. cities is among the most bizarre statements of any type I have ever read on AR. He seems, as commies so often do, to completely ignore that fact that RUSSIA, declared war on Japan, AFTER the USA and British Commonwealth troops had defeated Imperial Nippon and he seems to lack any concern for the ...civilians... killed then...... The irony and typical commie-asian lying is all too obvious. | |||
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Gentlemen, May I suggest that a persons own intelligence and ethics will guide him through the preceding morass and simply leave it at that? We appear to be abutting up against the lowest common denominators in this thread and as we know there is no reasoning with them.  | |||
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Brad, I don't believe you hunt with AlQaeda or the Taliban. There are many diametricly opposed ethnic groups in Pakistan (read people completely opposed to the Taliban and AlQuaeda). I believe you hunt those animals in areas controlled by western friendly ethnic groups. I've read stories about terrorist attacks in Europe. Should I never travel to Europe because some of my money could fall into terrorist hands? What about local US stores owned by people of Middle Eastern decent? Should I avoid them too? It's a slippery slope of paranoya. I don't think it's as clearly black and white as you make it, but that's good you know where YOU draw the line for YOURSELF. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Brett, Blaming hunting in Iran for sheep for US soldiers being killed in Iran is like, to borrow a phrase, blaming spoons for Rosie O'Donnel being fat. Let it go man, if a guy has no sense of proportion what can you do? | |||
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I can say that the Iranians I know and am/have been friendly with here in Vancouver, BC, have ALL been rather vociferous in support of US intervention in Iraq and one lady, in particular, my barber and quite a good friend of mine as our personalities are compatible, actually told me that she wishes the USA and allied nations would invade Iran and boot the mullahs and that little weirdo out. I am not quite so keen on having ANY nation invade another sovereign state as the innocent civilians usually suffer the results of such conflicts and this is why I favour economic strictures. To me, this includes hunting, but, our democratic traditions, not understood by the foreigners in our midst, include the freedom to make one's own decisions concerning hunting as well as every other aspect of life. So, while I would not hunt in some nations for political and moral reasons, others may choose to and that is their choice. | |||
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I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that at all. I agree that a hunt in Pakistan or Iran isn't likely to support terrorism in any way. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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No fear Brett, I understood the position you are taking. I was referring to the slightly hysterical stance taken by a few over this topic. The Iranian government are a bad lot indeed, there will no doubt be some small sum money that ends up in government coffers as a result of a hunt there. What is apparently ignored, whilst browbeating with picture of dead soldiers, is that any such sum generated from a handful of hunters a year is quite probably not significant in the scheme of things. Such a conclusion is obvious to many on this thread but the a predictable minority have predictably waded in foaming at the mouth and calling anybody with a dissenting view every bastard under the sun. But 'tis the way, eh? A | |||
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Hey Ghoober, thanks for making my point. How much money is ok to give to those killing your own? Have you no drive for self preservation? | |||
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Yes. Been reading Elgin Gates's "Trophy Hunting in Asia", and I am simply dumbfounded. - Lars/Finland A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot | |||
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I'm not making your point merely illustrating a congnitive sufficiency in taking a look at the issues, all of the issues, in hand. I've decided that the millions of dollars needed to fund serious organisations intent on doing harm to American troops in Iraq, until the come home that is, is more likely to come from millions of Americans drving their cars rather than a few Americans hunting sheep. That is only take the example of Americans, expecially those more concerned with the lives of their youth in service than Daddy's oil buddies. Just as an example. | |||
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how much oil has America exported from Iraq? Ahh yes, apathy, the 8th deadly sin.  | |||
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No my dear fellow, Iranian oil. Who do you think buys Iranian oil? If you look into it enough, you may even discover where the motivation, as well as the wherewithall, comes from. This is not say I agree with what they're doing, I hasten to add for the excitable, rather that, once again, sheep hunting is probably not the premier means of funding terrorism. Not in Iran, not anywhere. Please, I have no desire to insult you or offend your intelligence, might we call this a disagreement and as gentlemen, leave it at that? | |||
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How about Sadi Arabia????? They're our friends right? We buy oil from them all the time and they never support terrorism right? Like I said it's a slippery slope. Decide for yourself and let others decide for themselves sans preaching...... Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Telling people they have no conceince and they are killing their own soldiers by hunting Pakistan or Iran is about as accurate/true as saying you're killing your own soldiers by buying gas made from middle eastern oil. Actually I could probably make a case that the money that makes it back to middle eastern governments from one person spending money on middle eastern oil in a year is greater than what would ever reach a middle eastern government from a hunt like the one's we're talking about. So will you be on an anti gas kick next? Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Russia and China are the largest importers of Iranian oil. As far as I know, the U.S. imports no oil from Iran, but I could be wrong. | |||
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I haven't said anything about hunting in Pakistan except for my comparison of hunting in Iran with hunting with Al Qaeda or the Taliban, but as I pointed out earlier, that point was obviously beyond you. I stand by my statement that if you hunt or do any business with Iran, you are complicit in funding the murder of our troops. As far as your statement about mideast oil, It is a good point, many of our problems in this part of the world are that we have done exactly what I am condemning on this thread. As far as where I buy my gas, despite your efforts to be the forum police around here, you know NOTHING about that part of my life, so don't make a fool of yourself by speaking as if you do. | |||
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Brad, I wasn't referring to you. I was making a general statement that it could be said. You are right. I don't know what you do. "I stand by my statement that if you hunt or do any business with Iran, you are complicit in funding the murder of our troops" Wouldn't it be as valid and accurate to say the same thing about buying oil from middle eastern countries who sponsor terrorism? We send aid to some of these countries from our own government. You could argue that our government funds terrorism by sending money to middle eastern countries. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Brett, you need to have someone you know personally involved to understand this discussion, since you were apparently not in the US Military. I'm not being cross, but hasn't anyone in your family or circle of friends every been killed while a member of the US Military? I think the personal cost is lost on you, the personal toll. I just believe the issue, what many of us figure is aiding and abetting our sworn enemies; at least in some tacit manner by hunting there. I buy my gas and diesel at the Maverik western gas/convenience stores. 100% of their oil comes from Wyoming oilfields. It makes a difference. regards, Rich | |||
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That's a good plan Rich! It isn't lost on me. Not anywhere on here have I advocated hunting Iran or Pakistan. I did say you don't hunt with terrorist when you hunt Pakistan. I also said that hunting Iran or Pakistan with regard to funding terrorism is no worse than buying gas year in and year out from companies that use middle eastern oil to make it! Let's call a spade a spade folks! I just find it a little ironic that Brad is on his horse berating anyone willing to hunt Iran when likely INFINITELY larger amounts of damage are done by every day Americans buying middle eastern oil. Yet I don't hear Brad berating undecerning gasoline buyers. I guess if thinking critically about this constitutes not getting it then I don't get it. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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I keep reading about Iranian supplied weapons used against US forces but fail to see one post of US trained and supplied armies using it against the ones that supplied it...Taliban... | |||
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http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Iran/Oil.html Russia is the second largest world oil exporter after Saudi Arabia - there is no need to import oil from Iran. But the point is true - this whole story is about oil: Iran has the third largest oil reserves after Saudi and Canada. And those reserves are stil out of US control... | |||
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yes
Easyman, you are a typical Russian. http://www.indexmundi.com/russia/oil_imports.html | |||
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