Here's a good analysis and opinion, of course.

I started the video at 6:00, for the sake of brevity, but you can scroll back if you want.

https://youtu.be/XBaCXHtPmms?s...CUkbap2oFTwprj&t=360

the Legal AF podcast debate and discuss: whether the Supreme Court can ever recover historically from the stain of what they are about to do: find immunity for presidential/Trump criminality —including plotting coups and planning assassinations while while in office.

Under comments #1:

So if a president has immunity. Biden has the right to sort out Trump and some of the members of the Supreme Court. Plus some members of the GOP

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

What do you call it when a mob takes over the US Capital Building

They never actually “took over” the capital but they were rioters who traumatized public property and were total idiots.

Thus, I call what it was a riot.

From a distance, it looked no better organized than a college panty raid, but if the intent was assymmetric warfare with Pence as the pressure point, it didn't have to be and the 'optics" would be better if it was not.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Thus, I call what it was a riot.

What was the purpose of the "rally" and the "riot" that both conveniently took place at the time Congress was in session to certify the election results?

There was no excuse (purpose) for the riot.

But, many many more folks were there to peacefully express their opinion. That is OK isn’t it?

I see . . . it was just a spontaneous, serendipitous and perplexing eruption. Almost mystical. The timing was simply strangely coincidental. Sort of surprised you do not say that it was instigated by the Illuminati in collaboration with the FBI.

The only estimate of the numbers that day I can find is 120,000 attended, and about 1200 entered the capitol. That's 10%.

Those numbers may be overstated. For one thing I doubt that many people could fit in the space available in the capitol building.

But actually, the number of people who swarmed the officers and got inside is rather moot as to whether it was an insurrection or not. Besides, if 50,000 wanted in for the purpose they were all there for but couldn't squeeze in - do they count?

https://www.newsweek.com/exclu...6-protestors-1661296

Classified Documents Reveal the Number of January 6 Protestors
BY WILLIAM M. ARKIN ON 12/23/21 AT 5:00 AM EST

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...eality-of-jan-6-riot

Conspiracy theories paint fraudulent reality of Jan. 6 riot
Politics Jan 1, 2022 11:54 AM EDT

https://time.com/6137604/history-insurrection-jan-6/

What the History of the Word “Insurrection” Says About Jan. 6

"insurrection":
Britannica:
insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects; also, any act of engaging in such a revolt.

An insurrection may facilitate or bring about a revolution, which is a radical change in the form of government or political system of a state, and it may be initiated or provoked by an act of sedition, which is an incitement to revolt or rebellion.

In the United States, insurrection against the authority of the federal government is a crime under 18 U.S. Code §2383, which provides that:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


https://www.google.com/search?...nt=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1

On the afternoon of January 6, 2021, supporters of Donald Trump stormed the United States Capitol building.
See all videos for this article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...tates_Capitol_attack

Timeline of the January 6 United States Capitol attack

What caused the January 6, 2021, Capitol attack?

Encouraged by Trump, on January 5 and 6 thousands of his supporters gathered in Washington, D.C., to support his false claims that the 2020 election had been "stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats" and to demand that then-Vice President Mike Pence and Congress reject Biden's victory.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/0....html?smid=url-share

For Many Who Marched, Jan. 6 Was Only the Beginning
To many of those who attended the Trump rally but who never breached the Capitol, that date wasn’t a dark day for the nation. It was a new start.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I see . . . it was just a spontaneous, serendipitous and perplexing eruption. Almost mystical. The timing was simply strangely coincidental. Sort of surprised you do not say that it was instigated by the Illuminati in collaboration with the FBI.

So is the Illuminati 100% off the table?

quote:

Originally posted by zebrazapper:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I see . . . it was just a spontaneous, serendipitous and perplexing eruption. Almost mystical. The timing was simply strangely coincidental. Sort of surprised you do not say that it was instigated by the Illuminati in collaboration with the FBI.

So is the Illuminati 100% off the table?

Why have such a narrow scope of possibilities? It could have been the global elite, the biased media or the deep state.

Definitely not instigated by the Orange Jesus though, that much is certain.

What a stupid discussion. I knew weeks ahead of time that some bad shit was going to go down by reading posts at 24 hour campfire. How law enforcement…and anyone else…failed to see it is beyond me.

Lots of people knew.

https://forums.accuratereloadi...901010872#4901010872

…making the probability that it was “allowed” to transpire for political optics even more likely.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
…making the probability that it was “allowed” to transpire for political optics even more likely.

That damn deep state again

The evidence, even pointed out by Trump haters above, would suggest the thought is not crazy at all — actually probable.

You've gone 'round the bend, Lane.

Hey, why do you suppose they have a conspiracy to keep flying saucers a secret?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
You've gone 'round the bend, Lane.

Hey, why do you suppose they have a conspiracy to keep flying saucers a secret?

He's entered an alternate universe. It makes defending fact-free indefensible positions defensible.

If not allowed Roland…we have the most ignorant and/or negligent LE in DC one could imagine.

I don’t believe they are ignorant or negligent. How about you?

. . . I believe Trump is ignorant and negligent. He could have brought a halt to the whole debacle but he choose to watch it like a game on television all the while rooting for his team. I also believe that people that attempt to whitewash or minimize the events of January 6 epitomize the worst of the worst in the way of Americans. That’s what I believe.

Spoken like the ex-conservative-lite now neoliberal you are.



Me personally…I was never too worried about this guy taking over the country.

But I am happy he got reprimanded for his idiocy along with the others.

As I recall, folks in the WH were claiming he was depressed and not communicating.

Yes, IMO, Trump could and should have put a stop to it.

That’s not to say others couldn’t have as well.

Trump was POTUS. The Buck stopped with him.

Of course a whole laundry list of officials should be likewise held accountable for failing to shut it down.

Pence either deserves kudos for doing what he needed to do, or just should get the respect for doing his job. Strangely, the lefties won’t even give him that… and the righties who were so insistent on him were the first to abandon him because he was not willing to break the law.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . I believe Trump is ignorant and negligent. He could have brought a halt to the whole debacle but he choose to watch it like a game on television all the while rooting for his team. I also believe that people that attempt to whitewash or minimize the events of January 6 epitomize the worst of the worst in the way of Americans. That’s what I believe.

Speaking of labels, I believe that on January 6, there were Americans and there were pseudo-Americans. Americans were offended at the assault on our government. The pseudo-Americans tried to paint the assault as an act of patriotism or to dismiss it as either a group of rabble rousers or tourists run amuck. Pretty clear what label you proudly wear.

Illustration^^^of the chasm in the American population today and why it widens.

So long as some want to lecture others about the vices of a lack of personal responsibility and accountability while at the same time trying to characterize crooks and criminals as victims . . . based solely on political ideology . . . you can expect that gap to grow.

When one political ideology is consistent with traditional America and one is more consistent with socialism...

You do not get to define American values:

Your values are very much eschewed:

From criminalizing consensual sex and marriage be adults, forcing women to go home to bleed out w dead fetuses in them, children raped forced to give birth, your stance on President Trump and the election, and your desire to empower the state to force children to pray the prayer you approve of.

Like I said, the Constitution gives Congress the power to tax as high Congress can and get elected. I have posted the full statement from Chief Justice Marshall before.

Likewise, we need regulations.

We need laws to keep states from disenfranchisement minorities based of ethnicity. See the Supreme Court decision from Alabama.

Traditional American legal principles says Texas does not get to make mor enforce policy in the border given by the Constitution to the Federal Government.

Oh and traditional, American values from the Constitution and Bill of Rights says the original intent was to allow a state legislature to regulate who, when, and where arms could be possessed. I have proven that w caselaw going back to 1836 including Heller.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
If not allowed Roland…we have the most ignorant and/or negligent LE in DC one could imagine.

I don’t believe they are ignorant or negligent. How about you?

Sure, I believe law enforcement was negligent and defective that day. They should have shot more than one of the treasonous idiots, for one thing.

Should law enforcement have foreseen the mob's attack on the capitol building? Probably--but that doesn't change responsibility for what happened. Or do you think the cops are responsible for your property loss if they don't catch the burglar?

LE has some legendary screw-ups. David Koresh. Ruby Ridge. Many others we haven't heard of no doubt.

The mob was trying to prevent Pence from doing his job. Do you get that? It's indisputable.

The mob may have been a case of loose fireworks, but Trump lit the fuse to set it all off.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
If not allowed Roland…we have the most ignorant and/or negligent LE in DC one could imagine.

I don’t believe they are ignorant or negligent. How about you?

Sure, I believe law enforcement was negligent and defective that day. They should have shot more than one of the treasonous idiots, for one thing.

Should law enforcement have foreseen the mob's attack on the capitol building? Probably--but that doesn't change responsibility for what happened. Or do you think the cops are responsible for your property loss if they don't catch the burglar?

LE has some legendary screw-ups. David Koresh. Ruby Ridge. Many others we haven't heard of no doubt.

The mob was trying to prevent Pence from doing his job. Do you get that? It's indisputable.

The mob may have been a case of loose fireworks, but Trump lit the fuse to set it all off.

Just like he is doing with his current rhetoric, but his only concern is that "they're doing that FOR ME!"

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
When one political ideology is consistent with traditional America and one is more consistent with socialism...

I take fundamental exception to all that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...0and%20the%20pursuit

Liberalism, the belief in freedom, equality, democracy and human rights, is historically associated with thinkers such as John Locke and Montesquieu, and with constitutionally limiting the power of the monarch, affirming parliamentary supremacy, passing the Bill of Rights and establishing the principle of "consent of the governed". The 1776 Declaration of Independence of the United States founded the nascent republic on liberal principles without the encumbrance of hereditary aristocracy—the declaration stated that "all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Liberal democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...t_on_economic_growth

Common elements within a liberal democracy are: elections between or among multiple distinct political parties, a separation of powers into different branches of government, the rule of law in everyday life as part of an open society, a market economy with private property, universal suffrage, and the equal protection of human rights, civil rights, civil liberties, and political freedoms for all citizens.

Vulnerabilities - Populism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...l_democracy#Populism

Liberalism in the United States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...es#Modern_liberalism

Illiberalism - Relationship with populism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...onship_with_populism
==================================

https://www.brookings.edu/book...ise-of-illiberalism/

The Rise of Illiberalism
Thomas J. Main
Release Date: January 4, 2022

Dr. Easter advocates for a one party system and a confederation of states w a feckless federal government.

He refuses to understand or accept that federal government protects him when it protects minorities and only wants the rights he agrees with enforced against the states by that federal government. What he does not realize is one cannot have it both ways. Either the Federal Government has supremacy to enforce federal principles or it does not.

His Christian state desire is religious tyranny. He does not like it when certain religious, Christian groups treat him like he does gay people over his life.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Dr. Easter advocates for a one party system and a confederation of states w a feckless federal government.

He refuses to understand or accept that federal government protects him when it protects minorities and only wants the rights he agrees with enforced against the states by that federal government. What he does not realize is one cannot have it both ways. Either the Federal Government has supremacy to enforce federal principles or it does not.

His Christian state desire is religious tyranny. He does not like it when certain religious, Christian groups treat him like he does gay people over his life.

no, he doesn't -- YOU interpret his posts in the matter as this --- what is that you say about "not a serious person"? ... not trying to pick a fight with you, but I am pointing out your hypocrisy - if a candidate says these things, and the voters say "yes" or "no", who the heck are YOU to question their choices?

dude, issues are important enough you don't have to make stuff up and strawman someone ..

I like you, i think you're smart .. when you make dumb posts, i'll tell you -

Now, go peddle your malarky in Hamtramck or Dearborn, Or minnisomolia

There's an F ton of difference between wanting a candidate with shared morals to win than implementing sharia law ...

you do bounce off the extremes.. one day you are a nazi, wanting to control businesses via congressional law, the next you accuse a man of wanting a like minded candidate as a ya'll-quida ... then the nextg, brutally totalitarian and want to control the government of a foreign country, due to your whims

dude, take a chill pill

Oh yes he does.

Democrats are evil.
Only vote R no matter what.
Dems hate America.
Dems are destroying America.
Dems are against the values of the nation.

The result is clear. A one party state.

The Federal Government should allow me through local vote to choose the God and prayer someone else’s child says. However, the Geds better make sure my right to own any firearm is not infringed.

It is his words. It is the consequences of his words.

Federal Marriage Equality is the ruin of the nation because my understanding of my religion says so. Lawrence c Texas that stands for the proposition that a state law cannot be based on religious morality should be overturned.

He has made it clear his religious beliefs should control civil law.

However, he ignores some Christian communities see him has a sexual amoral person.

I’m the church I was baptized in, they would not let him in the choir. They should not control civil law either.

It is impossible to credibly argue to the contrary that Lane desires a one-party system. He clearly finds diversity, whether it is political, religious, sexual or social to be abhorrent. He desires an America that looks and feels like the 40’s or 50’s, when women knew their place, blacks lived on the other side of the tracks, queers were in the closet and middle aged white Anglo Saxon Protestants made and enforced the rules.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
It is impossible to credibly argue to the contrary that Lane desires a one-party system. He clearly finds diversity, whether it is political, religious, sexual or social to be abhorrent. He desires an America that looks and feels like the 40’s or 50’s, when women knew their place, blacks lived on the other side of the tracks, queers were in the closet and middle aged white Anglo Saxon Protestants made and enforced the rules.

Well as a middle aged white anglo saxon protestant, lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater, its been pretty good so far, lol.

. . . drop a copy of your curriculum vitae in the mail to Lane. He is looking for someone to serve as his Chancellor of the Exchequer when he becomes King.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . drop a copy of your curriculum vitae in the mail to Lane. He is looking for someone to serve as his Chancellor of the Exchequer when he becomes King.

You make me laugh my friend. But hey we all have a price, lol. I know you are way too smart to not see my dry humor, some here will miss it though.

Subtlety and nuance are lost concepts on this forum . . . most folks cannot spell either much less appreciative them.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Speaking of labels, I believe that on January 6, there were Americans and there were pseudo-Americans. Americans were offended at the assault on our government. The pseudo-Americans tried to paint the assault as an act of patriotism or to dismiss it as either a group of rabble rousers or tourists run amuck. Pretty clear what label you proudly wear.

So roughly a third of the country are pseudo Americans? By whose accounting?

So the folks that think that the rioters in the capitol are a very small group of people and the folks with actual intent to block the tabulation of the vote for some goofy reason were a minuscule number of folks who, by the results, were horribly organized and depending on whipping up a mob to do their dirty work don't really reach the level of an insurrection is horrible?

Frankly, in my mind an actual insurrection is treasonous, and you should get executed for that.

I wouldn't shed a tear if they executed the idiots that actually were plotting the violent overthrow of the government.

That would be how many who have actually been convicted of seditious conspiracy, which really isn't the same as an insurrection?

Yes, Trump calling these fools patriots is galling. They're not patriots. They are gullible fools that could not keep their heads in a mob.

While I can see that they are a group of Americans, and like a lot of other Americans, that doesn't devoid them of the personal responsibility for rioting (or seditious conspiracy if they so acted.)

But I guess I am not a good american by your lights because I don't think its as big of a national issue as you think. We have folks on both sides spouting off in bars the day after an election that things were gotten wrong every year. We routinely have protest rally's about the "other guy" winning elections.

That cat was let out of the bag long ago.

Its now getting more contentious.

At what point do we stop treating some causes with kid gloves and others more harshly?

I don't have a great idea here, but what we are doing isn't working. We don't have a unified response here.

Roughly 1/3 of the county including Dr. Easter needs to take a civics class, and stop trying to force the Christian Nationalist, MAGA views.

There is no wrong in explaining why the overall goal and individual positions are wrong.

A good example is your continued attempts to mitigate President Trump’s post election behavior by comparing that to President Biden’s policies you disagree with.

President Biden’s government has a good record at even this Supreme Court. The biggest loss being abortion.

The Administration’s Title IV position has been forced by Circuit Courts of Appeal rulings.

Maybe the S.ct., will overturn that policy change, but right now it tracks with the majority of the Fed Circuits.

Look at Texas. Texas’ own lawyers are telling the 5th Circuit, “ We may have went too far.”

I say it all the time, “The world you think you live in, and the world as is not the same thing. You do not really want to live in the world you say you do, because the day comes when you are in the minority.”

Search and Seizure being a federal right standardized across the 50 states is a good example.


When it comes to due process rights, a state must offer at least the Federal Level incorporated by the Fed Courts through the 14th Amendment. A state can always allow more. Up until the 70s, states were given less.

That giving less makes all the far right happy. Giving less due process sounds all find and daddy until the people are adverse to you, and the resources of the state are mobilized against you w life or liberty on the line. It is what separates us from a police state.

If President Trumps is correct and states can make women register to monitor pregnancy to prevent or prosecute abortions in and out of the state, why can’t a state have a firearms registry? I can make the argument legally both ways using Dobbs’ own words.

That a 1/3 of the country supports the man who tried to keep power he had no right to under our Constitution is a problem with that 1/3.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

So roughly a third of the country are pseudo Americans? By whose accounting?

Frankly, in my mind an actual insurrection is treasonous, and you should get executed for that.

I wouldn't shed a tear if they executed the idiots that actually were plotting the violent overthrow of the government.

That would be how many who have actually been convicted of seditious conspiracy, which really isn't the same as an insurrection?

Yes, Trump calling these fools patriots is galling. They're not patriots. They are gullible fools that could not keep their heads in a mob.

While I can see that they are a group of Americans, and like a lot of other Americans, that doesn't devoid them of the personal responsibility for rioting (or seditious conspiracy if they so acted.)

I don't think its as big of a national issue as you think. We have folks on both sides spouting off in bars the day after an election that things were gotten wrong every year. We routinely have protest rally's about the "other guy" winning elections.

That cat was let out of the bag long ago.

Its now getting more contentious.

At what point do we stop treating some causes with kid gloves and others more harshly?

what we are doing isn't working. We don't have a unified response here.

I wouldn't have used the term "pseudo Americans" - pseudo-patriots instead.

=======================
pseudo:
denoting close or deceptive resemblance to the following element. not actually but having the appearance of; pretended; false or spurious; sham.
=======================


I disagree with your execution comment.

Gullible fools, yes.

We know that you don't see it as a big national issue. That's the problem and why I keep referring to you as complicit of not compliant with the problem. Name a "rally" that has forcefully entered the capitol, overrun the security, trashed the place, and most importantly with the planned and specific intent to stop (or at least delay until another day) the certification, and do much harm to Pelosi, Pence, and others if caught?

Yes, it's getting more contentious specifically because of the hard-head types who swarmed the capitol, Trump and his cult, and those who make excuses. The 1/3, if that's the actual ratio, are causing the problems.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Roughly 1/3 of the county including Dr. Easter needs to take a civics class, and stop trying to force the Christian Nationalist, MAGA views.

There is no wrong in explaining why the overall goal and individual positions are wrong.

A good example is your continued attempts to mitigate President Trump’s post election behavior

I say it all the time, “The world you think you live in, and the world as is not the same thing. You do not really want to live in the world you say you do, because the day comes when you are in the minority.”

When it comes to due process rights, a state must offer at least the Federal Level incorporated by the Fed Courts through the 14th Amendment. A state can always allow more. Up until the 70s, states were given less.

That giving less makes all the far right happy. Giving less due process sounds all find and daddy until the people are adverse to you, and the resources of the state are mobilized against you w life or liberty on the line. It is what separates us from a police state.

If President Trumps is correct and states can make women register to monitor pregnancy to prevent or prosecute abortions in and out of the state, why can’t a state have a firearms registry? I can make the argument legally both ways using Dobbs’ own words.

That a 1/3 of the country supports the man who tried to keep power he had no right to under our Constitution is a problem with that 1/3.

I edited your post somewhat by deleting some parts, but I didn't change your wording nor meanings.

I agree with all of it, BTW. But this one sentence got my attention especially: “The world you think you live in, and the world as is not the same thing. You do not really want to live in the world you say you do, because the day comes when you are in the minority.”

Unpack that, if you can.

"In the minority" has already happened to those conservatives who call themselves republicans, (not RINOs), who, feeling the squeeze, have become the illiberalism advocates, thinking that is the way to gain it back, like in the old days. The country and the world moves around them. They are like a large boulder in the middle of a creek. The stream just moves around them.

Just think of what it will take for them to control the stream. That's what they want to do, so much so that the means isn't as important as the end result. Now, think again about how long and by what means the stream can be controlled to suit them. That dam is bound to burst, with lots of damage in building it and the burst.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Subtlety and nuance are lost concepts on this forum . . . most folks cannot spell either much less appreciative them.

So true, like they say, when you are a hammer, everything looks like nails. Some here could benefit from seeing a bit of the gray area.