quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
I have a great deal of difficulty understanding

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...f87c04fd6069fb&ei=21

"This is literally the plan": Psaki reveals why Trump immunity case isn't hypothetical

Jen Psaki outlines how Donald Trump's above-the-law view of the presidency reflects his plans for a second term.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
I have a great deal of difficulty understanding how the trumptard or potential trumptard mind works....

My point was that if in the mind of any voter, trump wasn't disqualified to serve as POTUS by the events on J6, that voter damn sure isn't going to care about falsification of business records or tax fraud.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
When insiders who worked in his administration say that he isn't fit for the office that should tell you all that you need to know.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
you mean drug possession.

if they found a baggie of coke in your house it's yours.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
This one being NY, in my view, is the weakest of the cases. The strongest is the documents case which absolutely should be brought.

This NY state case is very complicated. It hinges upon this scheme to hide something that one must prove was an unreported, excessive in amount campaign contribution.

The goods may be there. In good faith, I believe the prosecution team believed they have sufficient evidence to rebut the presumption. It seems rather complicated to me, and the more complicated it is the harder it is to explain. Sometimes, the juice is not with the squeeze.

A cynic with no proof would say, that a NY York state convictions does two things: 1 being a state conviction it narrows the scope of appealable issues, and 2assuming a conviction is upheld, a dem governor from the State of NY will never pardon President Trump.

A Dem President or Dem Republican President may very well pardon a federal conviction. Likewise, a GOP Gov in GA might pardon a state conviction.

Now, I am not a cynic. I have seen no evidence the above is the case. However, one should always rationalize like the opposition. A task I had in my first year of law school was to write the opposition brief.

Like I posted about 404b, what we are seeing is testimony of a common plan and motivate to use monies to benefit the campaign. That is is the play that hooks the felony. Statute of Limitations issues not withstanding. I am not competent to address that issue. We do not have SOLs for felonies on KY.

Surely, the trial judge has and can deal with the alleged SOL issue. That would be a matter of law for him to adjudicate. Assuming, the SOL has not been tolled or extended by the misdemeanors that require the jury to make an affirmative finding. Thus, I assume that issue is not in serious play.

Why do I think this case was brought believing it to be weak. I believe the case was brought bc the prosecution team in good faith believe they can prove the elements of the crimes beyond a reasonable doubt. I think given the complexity of the matter to reward that is a tall ask. We shall see. I respect the jury verdict. I reiterate that President Trump is currently as innocent of this as I am. I have never been to nor done business in NY.

The appellate courts are going to have to find an error in law, a piece of evidence or testimony that was admitted that was prejudicial error to admit over objection, or a federal right (such as the right to effective assistance of counsel that Justice Thomas got a majority opinion neutering that specific incorporated federal right last year or so). A jury’s factual findings may only be set aside over a very high burden of no sufficient evidence existed for a reasonable juror to so conclude. That the appellate court might or could decide a factual issue differently shall not suffice to overturn.

That is the most honest answer I can give.

In conclusion, the more the judge or jury has to think the harder it is to rebut the presumption, to make them comfortable to walk down the line w you to strip someone, effectively, of their citizenship. Being hard does not mean the prosecution is in bad faith. Being hard means you better be able to tell the story with the permissible tools that lessons the thinking.

Don't be so sure about that one either...

I posted these in the wrong order, bottom first is correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
I have a great deal of difficulty understanding how the trumptard or potential trumptard mind works....

My point was that if in the mind of any voter, trump wasn't disqualified to serve as POTUS by the events on J6, that voter damn sure isn't going to care about falsification of business records or tax fraud.

"Occam's razor (also known as the 'law of parsimony') is a philosophical tool for 'shaving off' unlikely explanations. Essentially, when faced with competing explanations for the same phenomenon, the simplest is likely the correct one."

================================================

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
When insiders who worked in his administration say that he isn't fit for the office that should tell you all that you need to know.

Then there's Bill Barr who said a lot about Trump, unfit for office and why, but I read recently that he would still vote Trump instead of Biden.

Apply Occam's Razor to that reasoning if you can.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
I have a great deal of difficulty understanding

Truer words were never spoken!

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Mike, just look at the temperature on your house thermostat, and that number roughly equals the IQ of the vast majority of Trump supporters. You might as well try to imagine what passes for cognition in the mind of a dog.

They say the average IQ is 100. There are a fair number of people with IQs 120-140 or higher. In order for the average to be 100, there must be an equal number of people with IQs around room temperature.

Trump owns them, and they're too stupid to know it.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Mike, just look at the temperature on your house thermostat, and that number roughly equals the IQ of the vast majority of Trump supporters. You might as well try to imagine what passes for cognition in the mind of a dog.

They say the average IQ is 100. There are a fair number of people with IQs 120-140 or higher. In order for the average to be 100, there must be an equal number of people with IQs around room temperature.

Trump owns them, and they're too stupid to know it.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Mike, just look at the temperature on your house thermostat, and that number roughly equals the IQ of the vast majority of Trump supporters. You might as well try to imagine what passes for cognition in the mind of a dog.

They say the average IQ is 100. There are a fair number of people with IQs 120-140 or higher. In order for the average to be 100, there must be an equal number of people with IQs around room temperature.

Trump owns them, and they're too stupid to know it.

Not sure I agreed with the IQ part. I am not a Trump fan but I do know a lot of people who are and they vary from dumb rednecks to very highly educated, high IQ people. Intelligence does not appear to matter. The one common trait is that they all BELIEVE in Trump. Truley believe! If they truly believe then logic or reason does not matter. Like I have said in other posts it is a cult. Cult followers truly believe in their leader no matter what he/she says or does. Trump understands that. He even said that he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and his followers would still support him. That is true believe and that is at the core of trumps power. We will never be able to do or say anything that would shake their believe in Trump so why even try. Our best hope is that Trump will just fade off into the sunset and take his cult with him and the rest of us can get on with life.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Mike, just look at the temperature on your house thermostat, and that number roughly equals the IQ of the vast majority of Trump supporters. You might as well try to imagine what passes for cognition in the mind of a dog.

They say the average IQ is 100. There are a fair number of people with IQs 120-140 or higher. In order for the average to be 100, there must be an equal number of people with IQs around room temperature.

Trump owns them, and they're too stupid to know it.

Not sure I agreed with the IQ part. I am not a Trump fan but I do know a lot of people who are and they vary from dumb rednecks to very highly educated, high IQ people. Intelligence does not appear to matter. The one common trait is that they all BELIEVE in Trump. Truley believe! If they truly believe then logic or reason does not matter. Like I have said in other posts it is a cult. Cult followers truly believe in their leader no matter what he/she says or does. Trump understands that. He even said that he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and his followers would still support him. That is true believe and that is at the core of trumps power. We will never be able to do or say anything that would shake their believe in Trump so why even try. Our best hope is that Trump will just fade off into the sunset and take his cult with him and the rest of us can get on with life.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Not everyone supporting Trump is blind to his faults.

I know quite a few.

Lane’s comments often indicate he’s in that group.

What the left side doesn’t get is that they think Biden is worse.

You can sit and stamp your foot and bellow out “that’s not true!” But it’s a judgement call. It’s not a fact to be proven.

You lot keep telling me that Biden is good, and a decent man.

I don’t buy that. Your insistence doesn’t change that.

Biden’s done many things that I think are damaging to the country. Has he been tried, or even charged? No. Lots of them are not violations of US code, or state law.

There are folks who won’t deny the facts you claim about 1/6 or Trump’s attempts to change election results. They just feel Biden’s policies are worse, even than Trump’s overt unfitness.

Face it, we have the two major party candidates where a majority feel neither is worthy of the office.

Trying to claim the folks that just disagree with you about which turd stinks less are somehow deficient is not very logical.

Now, the folks who actually think Trump or Biden are good folks and good candidates? I’d certainly ask them why they think that way. It’s kind of enlightening.

quote:

But, Lane's not stupid. He's a cult member.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Mike, just look at the temperature on your house thermostat, and that number roughly equals the IQ of the vast majority of Trump supporters. You might as well try to imagine what passes for cognition in the mind of a dog.

They say the average IQ is 100. There are a fair number of people with IQs 120-140 or higher. In order for the average to be 100, there must be an equal number of people with IQs around room temperature.

Trump owns them, and they're too stupid to know it.

Not sure I agreed with the IQ part. I am not a Trump fan but I do know a lot of people who are and they vary from dumb rednecks to very highly educated, high IQ people. Intelligence does not appear to matter. The one common trait is that they all BELIEVE in Trump. Truley believe! If they truly believe then logic or reason does not matter. Like I have said in other posts it is a cult. Cult followers truly believe in their leader no matter what he/she says or does. Trump understands that. He even said that he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and his followers would still support him. That is true believe and that is at the core of trumps power. We will never be able to do or say anything that would shake their believe in Trump so why even try. Our best hope is that Trump will just fade off into the sunset and take his cult with him and the rest of us can get on with life.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I get into a friendly argument with my first cousin who is IMO far-right, and a Trump supporter.

He often says "why do you keep bringing up Trump" in our arguments - forget Trump".

I say that Trump support, actively or passively or in any way directly or indirectly, is the benchmark of trustworthiness as to political judgment. IMO, one can't be a Trump or Trumpism supporter or complicit and be trustworthy insofar as having a moral foundation nor a foundation in reality itself. Everything after that is suspect, IMO.

quote:

No moral foundation? thats a pretty broad brush.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

No moral foundation? thats a pretty broad brush.

You are correct.

But what I'm saying is that failure in one aspect that's obvious brings into question where the lines are.

I feel it's a burden that I ought to not have to sort out. The only option I have in such case is to look for and at redeeming qualities. That takes getting to know someone. Most of the time the judgment hinges on the one factor.

Naturally everyone has redeeming qualities.

I suspect Charles Manson had a few.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

But, Lane's not stupid. He's a cult member.

Doc Butler is not stupid either - yet he rationalizes.....

I don't think Butler is a cult member, which raises a question of why does he rationalize so much.

Somehow their rationalizations don't mesh with the reality that critical thinking people see.

They think they can critically think, but there's obvious holes.

That's just my opinion but I can't explain it another way. If they were right most of the time, well that's different. Most of us are wrong sometimes, but not so often, and not so deeply.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

But, Lane's not stupid. He's a cult member.

Doc Butler is not stupid either - yet he rationalizes.....

I don't think Butler is a cult member, which raises a question of why does he rationalize so much.

Somehow their rationalizations don't mesh with the reality that critical thinking people see.

They think they can critically think, but there's obvious holes.

That's just my opinion but I can't explain it another way. If they were right most of the time, well that's different. Most of us are wrong sometimes, but not so often, and not so deeply.

There is the issue.

You are convinced that only you are right.

I don't disagree with the premise that Trump is a seditionist although I don't think he's capable of being convicted of that... and as such, is he really a seditionist or is he just a bad choice as a leader?

It kind of depends on what a seditionist means. I don't think until convicted in a court it holds the legal baggage the term conveys.

You all seem to be dancing around the point I was trying to make in relation to your contention of how can someone not recognize Trump's faults and yet support him over Biden.

Its simple. They may see Trump as being a petulant baby who has some dangerous faults... but see Biden as a bigger threat to the nation.

I am not trying to make you change your mind that Trump is better. I am simply stating that the choice of supporting Trump is based off of relative values.

Everyone in the group may agree that being incapable of gracefully accepting electoral defeat and lying about your loss is a bad thing; but that doesn't mean that Biden's letting all comers in border policy, his screw ups on foreign affairs (like Afghanistan) and his policies allowing for ghastly levels of inflation can't be viewed as "worse" to an individual.

Roland kind of pointed it out. To him, character is more important than policy. Lane pretty much said the opposite, policy is more important than character.

They both are right to themselves.

I'm thinking both are important, and thus am saying I will not vote for either guy.

I get Steve's contention that I am voting for Biden by that, but its not really the case, I am making a protest (at least in my own mind) that neither is acceptable. Is that a bad idea? Maybe. But I do have this belief that the country is fundamentally strong enough to put up with another 4 years of stinky turd presidency of either brand. If enough of us say the same thing, maybe the parties will notice.

The GOP has certainly (by number of phone calls and letters I get) noticed that I am not supporting them like I used to.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:


That's not the same as disagreeing politically with Biden's policies and voting against him because of it.

Sorry you're too stupid to understand that.

JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Mike, just look at the temperature on your house thermostat, and that number roughly equals the IQ of the vast majority of Trump supporters. You might as well try to imagine what passes for cognition in the mind of a dog.

They say the average IQ is 100. There are a fair number of people with IQs 120-140 or higher. In order for the average to be 100, there must be an equal number of people with IQs around room temperature.

Trump owns them, and they're too stupid to know it.

All true. But, Lane's not stupid. He's a cult member.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Mike, just look at the temperature on your house thermostat, and that number roughly equals the IQ of the vast majority of Trump supporters. You might as well try to imagine what passes for cognition in the mind of a dog.

They say the average IQ is 100. There are a fair number of people with IQs 120-140 or higher. In order for the average to be 100, there must be an equal number of people with IQs around room temperature.

Trump owns them, and they're too stupid to know it.

Not sure I agreed with the IQ part. I am not a Trump fan but I do know a lot of people who are and they vary from dumb rednecks to very highly educated, high IQ people. Intelligence does not appear to matter. The one common trait is that they all BELIEVE in Trump. Truley believe! If they truly believe then logic or reason does not matter. Like I have said in other posts it is a cult. Cult followers truly believe in their leader no matter what he/she says or does. Trump understands that. He even said that he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and his followers would still support him. That is true believe and that is at the core of trumps power. We will never be able to do or say anything that would shake their believe in Trump so why even try. Our best hope is that Trump will just fade off into the sunset and take his cult with him and the rest of us can get on with life.

I guess IQ is the wrong way to look at it. No matter how intelligent, a person may lack basic critical thinking ability.

Your explanation begs the question that ought to be asked: why do intelligent people fall for Trump? Why do they join the cult? What's the appeal?

I think it's either stupidity or naked self-interest, i.e., greed. As in, "I don't want to pay taxes."

I do think most Trumpies are just simpletons.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
When an armed organized militia moves against the National Guard at the direction of a recent unelected president…get back with me.

The action of an unorganized small group of idiots means little to me…similar going on now as I type.

The election was irregular and a statistical outlier in many instances. It was also separated by a small number of votes — lending itself to manipulation. Rules were changed. People had a right to question it. There are still unanswered questions about it. The fact that you cannot recognize that and blindly accept what the establishment feeds you makes me skeptical of your logic.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
When an armed organized militia moves against the National Guard at the direction of a recent unelected president…get back with me.

The action of an unorganized small group of idiots means little to me…similar going on now as I type.

The election was irregular and a statistical outlier in many instances. It was also separated by a small number of votes — lending itself to manipulation. Rules were changed. People had a right to question it. There are still unanswered questions about it. The fact that you cannot recognize that and blindly accept what the establishment feeds you makes me skeptical of your logic.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

Guns were drawn in the Senate Chamber.
.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
More of Dr. Eater’s conspiracy of the election bring irregular. He ignores every court they heard the matter rejected his position.

He ignores all the other elections lost by his side post 2020.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

Guns were drawn in the Senate Chamber.
.

1: no, no guns were drawn "in the senate chamber" by jan 6 idiots
2: the senate wasn't the chamber of "Action" in the matter - in fact, no official business what taking place IN THE SENATE, as the senate has no duty in the selection of the president - reference.. the constitution

the situation is serious enough as stands, no need to lie.. er, elaborate/exaggerate on the matter - and nah, bruh, poetic license isn't reasonable here

there were NO GUNS presented by the jan 6 idiots, not a single one ... "off campus" as in "in their cars" perhaps, but, not, not guns were drawn in the senate chamber

in YOUR words "and this is why you aren't a serious person" or some such malarky - due stick to the actual facts

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
More of Dr. Eater’s conspiracy of the election bring irregular. He ignores every court they heard the matter rejected his position.

He ignores all the other elections lost by his side post 2020.