quote:

Originally posted by Slider:

quote:

The charges filed against the father seem abundantly justified to me.

By this reasoning if you bought your 16 year old a car and they Plowed through a Gay Pride Parade and Killed four. The Father would be Charged? The Kid was Gay.They always are?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:

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The charges filed against the father seem abundantly justified to me.

By this reasoning if you bought your 16 year old a car and they Plowed through a Gay Pride Parade and Killed four. The Father would be Charged? The Kid was Gay.They always are?

There is something wrong with you.

And, by the way...yes. If the kid was talking about taking his car and running down a bunch of people with it before he actually went and did it, you could be charged. And, you'd damn sure be sued for negligent entrustment.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Illegal drugs, brought over the border by illegals, kill more kids in a year than all school shootings in the world, combined, for the last 100 years...

Can't seem to address the root of the most massive source of death, because "illegals"...

Hey, who's been our border czar for the lst 4 years, I am certain I gave forgotten... yeah each, don't bother with word games on titles

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Illegal drugs, brought over the border by illegals, kill more kids in a year than all school shootings in the world, combined, for the last 100 years...

Can't seem to address the root of the most massive source of death, because "illegals"...

Hey, who's been our border czar for the lst 4 years, I am certain I gave forgotten... yeah each, don't bother with word games on titles

Not sure it's the "illegals" you refer to that are responsible.

>>>Currently, China remains the primary source of fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances trafficked through
international mail and express consignment operations environment, as well as the main source for all
fentanyl-related substances trafficked into the United States.<<<<

https://www.dea.gov/sites/defa...nited%20States_0.pdf

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Originally posted by Saeed:
99% of these problems would not exist if people had a proper family unit!

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Or we can just take Vance's advice, and just accept having a few school kids (or shoppers at the mall or congregation members at a church or . . .) killed every month or so as just a fact of life.

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Or we can just take Vance's advice, and just accept having a few school kids (or shoppers at the mall or congregation members at a church or . . .) killed every month or so as just a fact of life.

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by theback40:
I dont get your post Steve. You disagree guns were always there, than say you had shotguns. A shotgun isnt a gun?
UK has strict gun laws, so knifings are a problem. You think if everyone had only a shotgun, that is not what would be used? It's a parent problem, first and foremost.

A shotgun is most certainly a gun, but not the gun that is used in these shootings.

Gun culture has changed, the availability of hi-cap firearms is much, much greater than when I was growing up. I had two semi-auto's growing up, a cheap rimfire and an 11-48 Remington 12 ga. Nobody in their right mind chooses either of those to go on a shooting spree.

It may very well be a parent problem first and foremost, but the increased availability of hi-cap firearms and the change in our gun culture certainly are contributing factors in my mind. If that kids father did not gift him an AR we would not be having this discussion.

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Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

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Nobody in their right mind chooses either of those to go on a shooting spree.

If that kids father did not gift him an AR we would not be having this discussion.

Sorry for selectively quoting your post. I just couldn't resist.

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
How many mass shootings occur with a rimfire? Sporting shotguns?

Not many....

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Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
here's something to consider:

I'm not going to say it explicitly, for reasons easy to figure and understand.

https://www.google.com/search?...yxwE&sclient=gws-wiz

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Originally posted by MJines:
I can understand the desire to talk about the specifics of this case, it is a case where the specifics are quite compelling. But we are talking about hundreds of mass shootings annually in the US. Then when you look at other countries we are talking about mass shootings that rarely crack double digits in a year. So let's blame parenting and mental health. Are we suggesting that parenting and mental health treatment in the US is ten, twenty, fifty fold better (parenting) and worse (mental health treatment) than in France, Germany, Canada, etc.? And what about the highway shooter in Kentucky. He is 32. Bad parenting? Bought his rifle the same day he tried to kill people driving on the Interstate. Sadly Vance is right, these events are a fact of life. Question is, why do we accept that fact?

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Originally posted by theback40:
The vast number of mass killings in the US is gang related.
Do the other countries allow gangs to rule entire sections of their cities? Why do we?
Kabob has a point with drones. So cheap and available. It is only a matter of time.

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:

you know what would cure most crime?
Criminals FEARING punishment

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Or we can just take Vance's advice, and just accept having a few school kids (or shoppers at the mall or congregation members at a church or . . .) killed every month or so as just a fact of life.

Mike,
Are you suggesting that is actually advice offered by Vance?

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:

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Originally posted by theback40:
The vast number of mass killings in the US is gang related.
Do the other countries allow gangs to rule entire sections of their cities? Why do we?
Kabob has a point with drones. So cheap and available. It is only a matter of time.

there used to be a tacky website that showed the chicago murder statics, as well as the past weekends shooting - nevermind, i found it - https://heyjackass.com/

Year to date homicides? 431 -

And no answer about cutting off fentanyl coming over the border by illegals and smugglers, which had causes 107,543 deaths in 2023 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/press...es/2024/20240515.htm

but noooo ... "illegal gud... black guns bad" ..

what was it nancy says
"for the children"
"if it saves 1 life"

"guns" are inanimate objects, requiring an operator -- in 99.9999999999% of the cases, that operator is a human .. in all other cases, the non-human operator was setup/made by humans.

you know what would cure most crime?
Criminals FEARING punishment

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Originally posted by theback40:
Restricting access is the parents job, where one of the big failures of proper values comes in.
It also comes with judges letting people out on minimal bail, if any bail, that should be kept locked up. There are to many gang bangers back on the streets from liberal judges. To many "usually men" who would rather kill the whole family than let them leave them. If they threaten their family, lock them up.
There is no lack of places to point fingers, but some are so blind they can only point at one thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Restricting access is the parents job, where one of the big failures of proper values comes in.
It also comes with judges letting people out on minimal bail, if any bail, that should be kept locked up. There are to many gang bangers back on the streets from liberal judges. To many "usually men" who would rather kill the whole family than let them leave them. If they threaten their family, lock them up.
There is no lack of places to point fingers, but some are so blind they can only point at one thing.

And yet, we have almost no crime, let alone mass shootings, with more strictly regulated firearms such as class 3 weapons.

Inquiring minds and all that shit......

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Originally posted by theback40:
No wymple it was not.
Murder rates were coming down under Bush jr in the early 2000's. The bottomed out 2004-2008 when they went back up under Obo. Pesky facts.
This is murder rates, not violent crime in general, which is at a 5 year high according to the most recent data.

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
The vast number of mass killings in the US is gang related.
Do the other countries allow gangs to rule entire sections of their cities? Why do we?
Kabob has a point with drones. So cheap and available. It is only a matter of time.

there used to be a tacky website that showed the chicago murder statics, as well as the past weekends shooting - nevermind, i found it - https://heyjackass.com/

Year to date homicides? 431 -

And no answer about cutting off fentanyl coming over the border by illegals and smugglers, which had causes 107,543 deaths in 2023 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/press...es/2024/20240515.htm

but noooo ... "illegal gud... black guns bad" ..

what was it nancy says
"for the children"
"if it saves 1 life"

"guns" are inanimate objects, requiring an operator -- in 99.9999999999% of the cases, that operator is a human .. in all other cases, the non-human operator was setup/made by humans.

you know what would cure most crime?
Criminals FEARING punishment

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Originally posted by lavaca:
This is a sad case and I think it's clear that the father wasn't a good parent, but charging him with murder may be a bit of an overcharge. Criminally negligent homicide, I get, but murder?

Sad thing about it, and there's plenty to be sad about, but this kid never stood a chance.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Or we can just take Vance's advice, and just accept having a few school kids (or shoppers at the mall or congregation members at a church or . . .) killed every month or so as just a fact of life.

Mike,
Are you suggesting that is actually advice offered by Vance?

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Originally posted by theback40:
Been through the class 3 topic. Cost is number 1 reason. Look at the chinese glock switch that made a semi auto turn full. Cheap, so gang bangers use them.
I called ATF by the way. Did you? The extra deep dive, that you claimed keeps others from getting a class 3 is ........ calling local, county or state police, which ever is the closest point. To see if any restrictions have not made it into court that would be on record.
Otherwise, it's the same as any other gun check.