I have had a cancellation on my Texas Mule Deer Trophy hunts...This hunt is on a 20,000 acre low fenced ranch that backs up to about 100,000 acres of Gov. land..

These may be the best trophy deer in the world today, they only allow you to shoot the big ones, the largest shot so far was a 46" spread, 30 inch beam and 6 inch base, Texas no. 1...A number of 170 to 180 were shot and several each year over 200..The adjoining ranch I have booked up into 2008 shot several in the 200 to 234 B&C class...This is one heck of a trophy mule deer country and about half what the guys in Mexico are getting...

Cost: $2000. for 4 days (Dec.4 through 7) fully guided, $2000.00 for kill...Also have some openings for 2006..

For more information contact me at the below address....
Thanks
Ray

I'm interested. I'll PM you.

I would like to hear more about the 46" deer.

DTH

Mr. Atkinson:

I emailed you yesterday requesting more details immediately after you posted this offer. I have not heard back from you. Please send details to sixtlghorn@aol.com. Thanks.

I still cant wait to hear the story about this 46" bruiser that is the #1 deer in Texas.

DTH

I did a varmint hunt on a ranch a few weeks ago that has huge mule deer and antelope. their deer are 180s, cost is 4500 bucks.

the antelope are 82 or better; cost is 1850. I have never seen so many bucks in my life.

I don't have any connection to the ranch; email if you want details.

Gatogordo,
I did not receive your email, try ray@atkinsonhunting.com ......

deserttrophyhunts,
send me an email, I'll show you a picture.

Ray,

I have personally seen the deer and I have actually written a couple of articles about the deer for MuleyCrazy Magazine and Hunting Illustrated. When I saw you advertising with this particular deer it rubbed me the wrong way because this deer was not killed in the same area as the ranches you are booking hunts for and in your original post it made it seem like the people that run the hunts actually killed this deer. Nothing could be further from the truth, this deer was killed illegally and if I were you I would damn sure do some digging to get to the bottom of this because its very shady to advertise a poached deer that was not even killed in the same county.

DTH

I will eat my words if in fact there was another 46" deer with 30" main beams killed in TX on your ranch but I am willing to bet everything I own that this is the same deer.

DTH

Well I wouldn't know unless you identify yourself...This one was poached at the gate of Billy Coles ranch if that helps you out.....If you want to see a picture of Billy Cole holding the deer then check his web page or email me like I suggested...I can show you pictures of a half a dozen bucks in the 180 to 234 B&C range if you like, that we have killed in that general area, I book for two ranches, Flag ranch and DK Boyd who has 5 ranches in that are, but DK is booked through 2008, all return clients.....

Jeff Wemmer, who posts here is one of the guides for Billy..Our last hunter this year will be Craig Boddington...Hopefully he will write it up, who knows...

It just dawned on me who you are, your that same troll kid that claims to be an expert, that jumped on me saying there were no big deer in that area last year. Yes that particular deer was poached, so what,it was shot on this ranch by a kid from town who got caught...and I have checked this out...It shows the ranches potential wouldn't you say...

If you would like to go to http://www.flagranch.com and take a look at that web page, and take a look at what has been shot on that ranch and I have some pictures that come from DK Boyds ranch, a couple of miles down the road of an even higher scoring deer than that one, it just was not entered, it scored 234.? The smallest deer killed this year on Boyds was 175.....

You need to keep your BS to yourself, you havn't learned a damn thing since you apoligised to me last time, and you never did contact DK Boyd like you were going to and I arranged for him to you around because of your apology. But your certainly not invited to do so now,...I wanted to have him show you some of those deer, and you ran out from under me..Forgot about that didn't you...Figured out who your talking to now...

Son, you need to grow up, your still young and your going nowhere with that kind of an know it all attitude, playing mule deer guide for some outfit in Mexico that you have never been on and never booked a hunt for........

I went to the web site. Those are some excellent deer. I've already got this deer season trips all booked up, but I may be interested next year.

Mr. Atkinson:

That web site is enough information to me. Assuming the "kill" fee is only charged if I shoot or wound one, I'll take it. The reason I have this quibble is that I'm only interested in a REALLY nice deer. Doesn't have to be a record or even a record book but REALLY nice.

I am also confirming this via PM and email. Thanks CAT

Mr. Atkinson:

I'll take the hunt!!!

Don't worry about Deserttrophyhunts, I'm not.

I am a little confused...

Was the 46 inch deer poached or not? I don't cazre if it was on the same ranch or not, if it was poached, you should have pointed that out Ray.

Not that the ranch doesn't have great genetics, but...

Yes, it was poached at the entrance gate by a couple of kids from town...Personally I don't see what that has to do with anything, except picky, ignorant BS...It was stated to show the kind of deer that are in the area.

It was killed on the ranch and would have been shot by one of our hunters had not those kids shot it..They caught them. Now I have explained it just to suit you. I'm a little fed up with the BS on this Big Game forum and will not in the future post any more cancellation hunts.

Gatogordo,
You get the hunt on your terms....

Sir:

I pm-ed you back and I am going to email your above address one more time just to check it out, but I'm fairly sure your computer is blocking aol email.

As far as the rest of you guys, you are doing those of us who are interested in cancellation hunts a dis-service. If you don't like the offer posted BY ANYONE, well, hell, just pass on it.

I've never hunted on one of Mr. Atkinson's hunts but I've heard damn little bitching from people who have, and that's good enough for me. If it ain't good enough for you, well, hell, as I said above, just pass.

Mr. Atkinson:

Email send to ray@atkinsonhunting.com. Talk to you tomorrow. Regards CAT

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
...This hunt is on a 20,000 acre low fenced ranch...the largest shot so far was a 46" spread, 30 inch beam and 6 inch base, Texas no. 1...Ray

I'm with AnotherAZWriter in that:

1. The deer was apparently not shot on that ranch. In fact, it was poached in another location, north of the ranch. According to the website, "It was poached just north of the Flag Ranch.".

2. It is not the Texas no.1- How could it be if it was ILLEGALLY taken? But I get your point, it would have been...if it had not been poached.

The ranch still looks good, and I'm not trying to give you any grief. I also understand, after the fact, what you meant to show (genetics are excellent in the area).

Let's just play fair and direct when advertising something. Saying it like it is, is much better than trying to suggest something else.

On that point, please feel free to advertise any other cancellation hunts.

That buck was not killed at the entrance of Billy Coles ranch or even in the same county as the Flag Ranch. He is blowing a bunch of smoke up your ass if thats what he is telling you. Hell, that deer did not even come out of a neighboring county much less ranch. He says on the website that it was poached "just north" of the Flag Ranch, I know that Texas is big and that sometimes just around the corner can be a 1 hr drive down here but that deer was killed pretty damn far north of the Flag Ranch. You must be the one with the short memory Ray, you threatened to come down here and kick my ass and I offered to pick you up at the airport. I am calling a spade a spade and if anybody wants to know the truth about this deer I am sure that they can call the Texas Parks and Wildlife Office and ask a few questions. I am fairly positive that they will be pretty tight lipped about the location as I will be to protect the real location of where the deer was killed but ask away. The deer was also not shot by a couple of kids from town, it was killed by a middle aged man. I can also tell you that the majority of the deer on the flag ranch website were not killed on Billy Coles ranch but were in fact killed in the same general area. Like I stated earlier, I have researched the hell out of this deer and have sat down to have dinner with the man that shot it, I thought that he was very gracious to tell the story to help put out awarness on some of the problems facing these deer down here. Please refer to the article in Muley Crazy Magazine or the article in Hunting Illustrated, I wrote both of them. I saw a brochure for the Flag Ranch in Odessa the other day and was shocked that he would advertise with this deer given the circumstances. You should call him and let him know that you are catching heat for advertising with a bogus story that he told you. If I were you I would be pissed at him, not me. As for being a troll kid that does not know big mule deer and "plays" guide in Sonora, I think that you have it all wrong. I also NEVER stated that there were not big deer in the area you are booking hunts for but rather questioned the advertising of the "ease" of the hunts you were advertising. What we agreed on was the wording you used could be interpreted in different ways. I know people that know Billy Cole and dont have a problem with him, I also know that the man that poached the deer and Billy are friends, what I have a problem with is the fact that a person will mislead others, you included, to try and book a hunt and put some money in his pocket. He has boldfaced lied to you if he claims that the deer in question was killed even close to his ranch. The Game Warden has a video of the deer and thats how the hunter was caught, he had claimed that it came from Billys ranch and the Game Warden quizzed him about how far the deer could have traveled in a day. Its a LONG DAMN WAY! I am not discouraging anybody from booking your cancellation hunt, in fact I think that the price is right on the hunt, worst case scenario you would be out 2K and you would have the opportunity to harvest a good deer if your lucky. I was not trashing the offer, just the BS that you have been fed. Do some research and ask the right questions and you will see that I am not wrong.

DTH
Drummond Lindsey
(806)543-1890 is my mobile just in case you want to know more about the deer.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/293191-big.jpg

This is not for advertising, we are completely booked but rather to show you that we have in fact been very successfull at what we do. You said I "played" guide in Sonora and you were right and we were the M-V freaking Ps for 2 years in a row! LOL

Also, how well do you know Billy Cole? The reason I ask is because you said that there was a picture of him holding the rack on his website and I can tell you that the man holding the rack on the website is 100% not Billy Cole. I know the guy in the picture. If there was more than one picture of it I did not see it. If you have seen his brochure there is a quote from a successful hunter right below the picture of the wide deer and it loks like the quote is about the poached deer. Its just shady any way you look at it.

DTH

It never ceases to amaze me how people interact on the net......

IV

Ray:

Please continue to post your hunts on the net. I personally will book with others that I have cultivated a relationship with.

You are basically a sales guy. If you can't handle rejection then you shouldn't be in sales.

This wasn't picky bullshit on my part - if that 46 inch deer was poached, you should have said that. You directly implied that that deer was shot ON the ranch during hunting season.

Does it matter if it was poached? Well, go out and shine some deer. You might find the deer "hunting" to be much easier.

Does the ranch still look good? Of course. It looks like a good deal to me.

Hey Ray, don't let em get you down. All the rest of us want the hear about what you have going! This hunt percs my interest for a year or two down the line... but I'm wondering if this hunt would be something I could go blackpowder on and have a reasonable chance. Your thoughts, Ray?

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Ray:

Please continue to post your hunts on the net. I personally will book with others that I have cultivated a relationship with.

I doubt that Ray would have it any other way![B]


You are basically a sales guy. If you can't handle rejection then you shouldn't be in sales.

[B]I could be wrong, but it seems that Ray is more into the hobby business. A hobby that hopefully pays its own way!

This wasn't picky bullshit on my part - if that 46 inch deer was poached, you should have said that. You directly implied that that deer was shot ON the ranch during hunting season.

Being responcible for the history of the animals and the area and the ranchers? Bit much don't you think?

Does it matter if it was poached? Well, go out and shine some deer. You might find the deer "hunting" to be much easier.

No matter how hard I look, I can't find anywhere that poaching is being advocated. Do you?

Does the ranch still look good? Of course. It looks like a good deal to me.

Then why all the nitpicking?

I normally don't get into Ray's fracouses, he needs no help from me. But you guys are getting a little much, just more fodder for the roller on the mouse.

Ray,

Even you need to be able to laugh at the irony here. If you will remember, one of our main disagreements in our last discussion a couple of years ago was about poaching. I claimed that it was a real problem and you disagreed and now you are advertising a poached deer. If you can put your emotions aside for a moment and look at that objectively I has to make you laugh. Ironic as hell isn't it?

Drummond

8mm:

If you go to the website and look, the 46 inch deer is labeled as poached.

All I am saying is that Ray was a bit misleading by not identifying that. There was no homework involved.

On the plus side, Ray is not offering this at a discount, which means if he sells it at full price, the client involved gets a full refund.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
8mm:

If you go to the website and look, the 46 inch deer is labeled as poached.

All I am saying is that Ray was a bit misleading by not identifying that. There was no homework involved.

On the plus side, Ray is not offering this at a discount, which means if he sells it at full price, the client involved gets a full refund.

I don't follow. Why would a client get a full refund and under what circumstances?

Ray..Do you ever hunt Idaho...If so how long?How long have you lived down by Twin?

We have a place at Magic with several cousins in Sun Valley/Ketchum/Fairfield etc...We used to hunt Soldiers mountan all the time when I was young.

Never paid for a hunt and never would as it's meat to me as always.From Idaho born and raised...

Jayco

Doc:

This is sold as a cancelled hunt, but the price for the cancelled hunt is the same as the normal hunt (see prices on the website). Therefore, (I am assuming) Ray is trying to sell this at full price to recover his client's deposit. Mark Young did the same thing a few weeks ago. It is a good geture in that it is looking out for the client.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
8mm:

If you go to the website and look, the 46 inch deer is labeled as poached.

All I am saying is that Ray was a bit misleading by not identifying that. There was no homework involved.

On the plus side, Ray is not offering this at a discount, which means if he sells it at full price, the client involved gets a full refund.

I have gone to Ray's website, the ranches website, your website, yadda yadda, and find no place that advocates poaching on any of them. Nothing misleading about a picture that says this deer was poached, either.

Reading this thread does not say a lot about Ray, but it does about others. That is the point I did not make well at first.

Have a faux beer on me, , and a good day.

quote:

These may be the best trophy deer in the world today, they only allow you to shoot the big ones, the largest shot so far was a 46" spread, 30 inch beam and 6 inch base, Texas no. 1

Some people will see what they want to see. I think that it is blatantly obvious that Ray was implying that this deer was harvested on this ranch using the services of the outfitter. This deer was killed at least 65 miles from the ranch that these guys are hunting. 65 miles is not at the front gate nor is it "just north" of this property as the website states. It came from an area that has no hunting pressure for miles around and because of that the deer have a much better opportunity to get to maturity. Ray did not mention this deer to try and show you guys what the country is capable of producing as he stated after he was called on it, he mentioned it to try and entice you guys into booking a hunt and I feel that this type of advertising is wrong. If anybody posts something up on the internet and it is false and they are called on it they should be man enough to say that they were wrong. I have no idea who told Ray the story about this deer, hell his story has changed a couple of times about where the deer was killed, first it was on the ranch by a kid then it was just off of the ranch by a couple of kids.

"It was killed on the ranch and would have been shot by one of our hunters had not those kids shot it.."

One thing is for sure, nobody hunting that ranch would have ever had an opportunity at harvesting that deer! Like I said, it was not even killed in a neighboring county and our counties are big here in west TX. I am not the Ray Atkinson police and I dont just sit here on the computer checking up on him but when I see something posted on a forum that is so far off base as this I just had to set it straight. I would have done the same thing if my own father would have posted something like this. It is not fair to a potential consumer to use these types of claims and as a guide I cant stand it when hunters come to camp after being pumped full of BS. The area where Ray is booking hunts for has enough good deer to advertise without having to resort to these types of tactics.

Drum

PS, this deer would not have been a state record even if it were legal. If fact, it would have not even been close to the state record. The net score of this thing was horrible, it had a 45 6/8" inside spread but only got 30" for B&C and it is a basic 3x4. Unreal buck, one of my favorites but there are a number of deer in TX hat have scored higher. This deer is definately in a class by himself but was just not built for score. That was yet another false claim in the story.

quote:

Originally posted by DesertTrophyHunts:
I am not the Ray Atkinson police and I dont just sit here on the computer checking up on him but when I see something posted on a forum that is so far off base as this I just had to set it straight.

WOW! I myself don't sit around policing anyone but I guess I'll apply your logic "when I see something so far off base as this I just had to set it straight"

Now, Mr. Atkinson needs no defense from me and I usually avoid controversy on these forums but it is absolutely amazing how a simple post can get so heavily criticized by someone.

I am a new member as well as you are (DTH) and you are coming in from left field, but I guess it is all in the name of competition, he is an outfitter, you are an outfitter and anything to beat the competition eh? As a "consumer" (not an outfitter) do I want an outfitter who nitpicks like you have done? If I book a hunt with you are you going to be so "nitpicky" with me or any of your other clients when it comes to dates, times, fees etc? You claim to have harvested the highest grossing deer in 2003 and 2004- how do you know? Maybe someone killed a larger animal that has not been scored yet? I am sure I'll get a trite response from you as well, and quite frankly your opine means nothing to me, if you give someone enough rope......I have to tell you, when I need the services of an outfitter in west Texas or Sonora or anywhere, I know who I wont be contacting.......

Good day!

IV

Hey IV, Drum doesn't need my defending, nor does Ray. I spoke with both on the phone. I considered going on this hunt and I was going to let Billy Cole know by tomorrow, but it looks as if the hunt has sold.

When I spoke with DL on the phone, he seemed sincere about his concern with the topic and his demeanor on the phone was not nitpicky at all. He stated to me that he is indeed an outfitter but he's booked for the next few years, so I don't see Billy Cole's operation as competition, as he still has openings for next year. DL doesn't even have a website as his customers are all repeat.

I'm not 100% sure if Ray was fully aware of the entire situation at hand anyway, and I certainly don't hold that against him.

It is hard to fully understand someone's current demeanor and emotions but DL expressed to me that he felt that the whole story should be known. That's all.

I think all of the "mud slinging" if that's what anyone wants to call it, will dissapate. The facts are on the table for everyone to read and any consumer can make their own judgement.

When Ray first made the post, I went to the website and read that the deer was poached myself but I really didn't think much of it. My take was simply there are deer to be had of this caliber in TX.

On the other hand, I'm glad I know the whole story behind the deer.

Just a suggestion, but I'm confident that if you spoke with DL on the phone you'd see he's really a pleasant guy to speak with.

Same with Ray.

And FWIW, I still may give Billy a call to book a hunt for next year. I have some other leads in TX too that I have emails out and waiting for response.

I've got a great idea.....how bout' Ray and Drummond both send me on hunts through their outfits and I'll report the findings.....Heck, I won't even charge them a dime for my services....

Yea, we'll go together! You can shoot with a camera, me...I'll shoot my rifle! Sound good?

.This one was poached at the gate of Billy Coles ranch if that helps you out.....


This deer was killed at least 65 miles from the ranch that these guys are hunting. 65 miles is not at the front gate nor is it "just north" of this property as the website states.

Great description RAY

Doc:

I think you summed up things quite elegantly. It was not my intention to sling mud, just point out how I felt about the deal.

In the interest of stirring the pot, I will start a new thread on AZ big applications...

It was sold as a cancelled hunt because that is what it was, the man that cancelled came down with cancer and had his leg amputated and was refunded fully...YOur play with words is just so much crap IMO....I sold the hunt to a really nice guy that has been around AR for a long time..

As for as I am concerned those with a problem here as to my wording can kiss old spot and I could really give a s--t less if they ever book with me...

Lindsey, why don't you look up Billy Cole or Jeff Wemmer and call them a liar to their face, or have you got the balls to spout off face to face...

I have no further use for this thread, its bullshit, lies and half truths on Lindsey part and maybe were not talking about the same deer and I can show you another deer thats bigger than that one, and it was not poached...

But, this is a BS thread on their part and I'm out of this, have not got the time for it or the desire to listen to his their crap....

Hey Ray, since I was the guy addressing the cancelled part, you might note that I actually gave you a pat on the back for trying to sell it at full price and get the client his money back.

I know you can't do it all the time, but when you can, it is a nice thing to do.