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Make that fourth choice 20% 80% I screwed that up. | |||
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How about landowner tags that can be used or sold to anyone for private land. Tags for state lands can go to residents only. The rest of the tags used on federal government property should be an equal draw with no preference to residents. Your poll sucks as it has no place to vote for none of the above. | |||
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None of the above! On Federal Land......every citizen of the US should have an equal opportunity to hunt regardless of where they reside....... | |||
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States can and should do whatever they decide is best for the wildlife and its citizens on state and private land. The poll does not address the fundamental issue regarding the disperate treatment of residents and non-residents on FEDERAL lands. Taking this into consideration will provide an opportunity for an appropriate respnonse to the current controversy. *************************Conservationist. Reformed Attorney. Producer of Outdoor Media. www.stevescott.tv | |||
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IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT MAKE A BETTER ONE, I AM JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT THE REAL DEAL. Thanks, D99 | |||
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If you live in a state that has a high population to square miles ratio and in turn very little US Gov public land then you might not understand how those of us in the West feel. Just because the state is 90 percent public land (as in the case of Nevada) doesn't mean that 90% piece of public land is any different than the other 10%. ALL OF IT IS STILL NEVADA! If I got to Florida, and it's against the law to have an open container in one county, it's still against the law to have an open container in my car while I am driving through the Everglades. The Everglades may be US Goverment property and public land, but it's against the Florida law. BECAUSE I AM STILL IN FLORIDA! States rights get shit on all the time. Montana lost the ability to control there speed limit. Wyoming was forced into a 21 year drinking age (I was 16 at the time, never thought I would see 21, and now I am 30). Alaska got forced into adding the Gates of the Artic National Park which put 90% of the huntable dall sheep in Alaska, out of bounds for hunting. If you don't live in a state, you shouldn't get to make rules in the state regardless of how much public land is in it. Folks in New York would be pissed if a bunch of Nevada cowboys, Alaskan wood cutters, and Wyoming Oilfield workers showed up in Central park and told the New Yorkers how they were going to turn the whole park into a big desert and drill for oil. I am in Texas right now for business, and I have seen first hand of trying how you want to control what's in Texas. Well we want the same rights in our states. Those same rights will shut down all non-resident hunting if your push this US Outfitters bullshit on us. | |||
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D99: Here is the solution: Make it illegal to hire guides in the State of Arizona, to include outfitters (drop camps). I tell you, if he doesn't give it up, it would be easy to start a referendum to do exactly that. | |||
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Why not residents and nonresidents compete in drawings equally in each state? But I do think that there needs to be a parallel program so that landowners have control of the permits for their land so that landowners have an incentive to provide game habitat. | |||
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500 grains approach is equal and fair. It's not my approach but it's fair! I guess I don't want to share my state wealth with those that don't live here and work every day to make it a better place. The problem is that while outfitters have a right to make a living, that right infringes on the greater rights of the people of the state. The only reason this asshole George Taulman did this is so he could sell more hunts in Arizona. I understand he is trying to do the same thing all throughout the west. | |||
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I wouldn't mind having to pay more for licenses/permits etc in other states if the residents there didn't mind paying more for things made and/or imported thru a port in my state than I do or if they paid more for gasoline refined at a facilty in my city than I do. I don't really think we need a totally level playing field but I think a better balance, in both opportunity and the cost of tags, is needed especially on federal land. DB Bill aka Bill George | |||
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Okay, what about higher tuition for out of state resdidents? Re: Federal land. The game does not belong to the landowner, it belongs to the state. If the federal gov't owned the animals on its land, then it would also mean private landowners owned the game on their land. | |||
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The only folks that come to California from Arizona are football players and they get a free ride. It can, however, work to your advantage. My son got a partial scholarship to a law school in the South partly because he was from California and they wanted to "diversify" the student body...fresh ideas I guess. DB Bill aka Bill George | |||
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I think residents should have a priority over non residents. When it comes to hard to get tags - some years Nevada has 1 big horn sheep tag - the residents should get those tags. Of course living in Texas now I would get hosed, but it was my choice to live here. I also think land owners who take government subsidies should not be allowed to sell tags or hunting rights to outfitters after all it is our cash they are taking. | |||
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The state owns the wildlife on all land within its borders. The federal goverment just owns the land! | |||
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That's fine. Tell the state to remove "its" wildlife from our government land or pay for grazing rights. | |||
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There is no way the non resident will never see the resident point of view no matter what. It always come to four things ME,MY,I AND MONEY. Never matters about game management etc just give me my cheap deer or elk tag so I can hunt. The non resident who enjoys those hunts never figures the cost to maintain the animals they just grow on trees. Best way to solve the problem is just open Colorado deer and elk to anyone who wants to come and hunt include cow and does tags that way after that hunt won't have any animals left then maybe we could move on to those eastern states and show them how to hunt. VFW | |||
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Bullshit! Let's take Nevada for instance. I just got my rejection letter today for the N/R guides draw. Total cost $155.00 if you want to keep your preference points. It will probably cost me another $60.00 dollars or so in the regular draw. Total $215.00. Over five years I have around $1000.00 tied up and have not hunted in Nevada one time. So don't give me this bullshit about how non-residents don't pay their way. I probably pay more toward the upkeep on wildlife in Nevada than the average resident does. At least Nevada issues landowner tags so if you want to pay the price you can hunt. When will the landowners in Arizona wise up and demand landowner tags? It's pretty stupid to be letting people hunt on your land for free when you could be getting 10 or 15 thousand for a landowner elk tag. | |||
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M16, no use arguing with them guys. I gave up. They think all Eastern hunters are the only ones hunting as non-residents. They don't see States right next door have non-resident hunters also. It is hard to talk to these guys, for one they must have a brain to comprehend what you are saying. They are like minor birds, they just repeat whet they hear. I know what you mean about having to pay to maintain your points, the residents don't have to worry about paying like we do. But like I said before I don't mind paying more for a non-resident tag, just don't want to be gouged. Yes residents should get the lions shear of the tags. But a lot of them don't even want to give up that little bit. M16, good luck in you battle of wits with a bunch of unarmed posters here. To all the others. If you are not one posting with the hate the non-resident attitude this does not pertain to you. tom holland, what do you personally contribute to the growth of the animals in your State???? Last time I checked nature takes care of itself almost all the time. We are just there to manage it. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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I'll just say, I have been paying out of state tag fees for years, and I don't see the problem! Of course the fact that I live in a state that 98% of the whole 280,ooo sg miles of this state is private land, and when it costs a minimum of $2000 to shoot a goaty whitetail deer, in Texas, I'll gladly pay $500 for a moose tag in Alaska, where 98% of the land is public! Hell even with the airfare, and charter bushplane costs, I'm still $1000 ahead of the game compared to hunting a 75lb ticky deer in my home state!  One seems to forget, no matter if the game is on private, land, or public land, both federal, or state land, the state game department is responcible for the management of this game. Those costs are not subsidized by the feds! The federal government has a real bad habit of mandateing how things should be, but are quite reluctant to chip in for the costs involved. That cost caused by the feds, is what drives the costs involved in out of staters higher cost for hunting in that state! Get over it, there is no reason to fix something that isn't broken! This drive is not being done for our benefit, but to improve the bottom line in USO's profit margin, nothing more!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Residents should have a right to hunt in their own state. I personally would not like it one bit if I could not get a tag, when some guy who wins a drawing from out of state gets one. If I was hunting in another state, I don't expect priviledges over their own residents. Yet I don't want my state closed to out of staters when the number of animals to hunt is available and well managed. One of the things, that I use to be impressed with although I haven't lived back east for a long time, and don't plan too, is recipical agree ments that states like West Virginia and Pennsylvania had. Residences from each state could buy tags in the other state just as if they were locals. I think that is a product of when government still cared about its citizens. IN the West it is how much money can we soak out of staters for. I compliment Minnesota and Wisconsin, as they have made their deer seasons for a long time available so that a resident can hunt each state and the price of out of state license for residents is the same for each state. Not sure what they charge residents of other states, or it is the same regardless where you are from. Hunting is not a father and son or family ritual anymore, it is homage to state government to just rake in more money so they can go out and blow more money. The California liberal influence from all the transplanted Californians who want to get back to nature or a small town feel, have harmed deer hunting in Oregon, based on their big " cougar" rights platform. Now the deer herds are down 80% yet they want to come up to Oregon to deer hunt and Elk hunt. Granted the guys who want to come up and hunt are not the ones that support those kinda laws, but it sure is hard not to grumble when you see a California license plate in the woods. But you talk to the owners, they are fellow hunters and don't like the other types anymore than we do. I will actually credit eastern states, with being better at game management that the western states. I compliment Iowa also. Kansas passed a law a long time ago, and I don't know if that has changed, against out of state hunters. Iowa passed a law baring Residents of Kansas from buying an Iowa Non Resident tag. Fair is fair. cheers seafire | |||
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May not hold a lot of water, but I have established and kept residency in Colorado just because of the hunting. Am I making as much as I would if I lived on the east coast or Kalifornia? No! We have a pretty good deal on preference points here (doesn't cost to keep them as long as you apply at least once every five years), it costs $3 for both residents and non-residents to apply for licenses. The system seems fair to all. Do we have a lot of people from out of state who act improperly? No, but the few who do make it very obvious of where they're from. Cost is an issue for non-residents. However, if you don't like it, move here and pay our state income tax, gas, and other fees. Just my .02 .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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Every one that doesn't live in a state with lots of federal land thinks it is one big block. Maybe in Nevada or Alasaka it is, but here it is intermingled with private, state, railroad, and county land. Who is going to ride shotgun over the trespassers onto these nonfederal lands? States rights,let the states wildlife rights go, then lets get rid of all state rights. One federal state. No county government, no city governement, and no state government! Hmmmmm sounds like old country communism to me! Ain't gonna happen, each and every state has rights granted and given by the constitution, the 9th circuit, George Taulman, and some slick lawyers are not going to prevail!  | |||
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"The California liberal influence from all the transplanted Californian who want to get back to nature or a small town feel, have harmed deer hunting in Oregon, based on thei big " cougar" rights platform. Now the deer herds are down 80% yet they want to come up to Oregon to deer hunt and Elk hunt. Granted the guys who want to come up and hunt are not the ones that support those kinda laws, but it sure is hard not to grumble when you see a California license plate in the woods." The last time I checked Oregon only allows 5% of tags for non-residents. And in the more desirable areas 3% of tags go to outfiters leaving only 2% for other non-residents. The last time I hunted elk in Oregon I saw more vehicles with Washington license plates than Californiua license plates. By the way, most of the Liberals moving into your state from California were not born in California. They were born in places like New York, Connectict, Texas, Iowa, ect. They came to California because of the good paying jobs and took jobs away from native born Californians and when it comes time to retire they take their fat retirement checks out of California. Actually I wish all of the liberals would leave California so that it could return to the state I remember from the 50's and 60's before the liberal invasion. | |||
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I just want to add that I hav no problem with Oregon limiting it tags to 5% for nonresidents. After all California does not allow any nonresidents apply for any of its elk tags including the Tule Elk. I am all for States Rights. | |||
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Nevada has one of the highest applicant per tag rates in the US for elk. I miss my home in Ely and wish to oneday return. Nevada is a secret jewel with excellent hunting for Mulie, Antelope, Elk, and three species of Big horn hard to beat it.. Montana was always home until I moved to Nevada.. To many people moved to Montana and screwed it up and it looks like the same will happen to Nevada enjoy it while you can.. | |||
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When are you going to start paying taxes on all of your land? | |||
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I have some news for you my friend. Maybe 80 percent of everything you use in Alaska to make your State a great place to live was produced by hard working people in other places so as to make all places better places to live, including Alaska. | |||
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MJS, Couldn't agree with you more. Most of the real Califorians I meet are GREAT people.. Yeah Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelozzi, etc, you can tell they are not native Californians. I think Oregon should allow a lot more availability of tags to out of state hunters than that. But I have no great love for Fish & Wildlife here. Most are Salem and Portland liberals, born with the silver spoon in their mouth. I think the ones making the laws are actually people laid off when they overhired at the lottery commission. 99% of the guys you probably saw in Oregon with Washington plates were former Californians that moved to Washington instead of here. Drives me nuts when people who live in Oregon East of the Cascades have to draw hunt or hunt western Oregon, when they have deer running all over the place right where they live. Once again that makes sense to a Portland person. Back in the 1950s California must have been a paradise without billions of people and level headed non liberal types. Always makes me wonder though, why are non hunters coming up for rules that apply to hunters. Those that are on the game commission or the Oregon Hunting Advisory Board to Fish & Wildlife, sure always seem to draw all of those hard to get draw tags they come up with. Personally I think it is just another platform for the elitists. Another 'liberal' policy that is just fine with them. For anyone from the political forum on AR, now this is called a RANT! cheers seafire | |||
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Let me chime in and say I believe the states should be sovereign(sp?) in that the feds should allow the states to control that which is whithin it's borders as it sees fit to better the states standings. I am from southern Oregon originally,and moved here because there were little to no jobs to be had. I chose to make $$$ over living there. I now choose to pay the high non-res fees when I want to hunt with my family. I think the states should limit the number of non-residents and favor it's own residents. Those who can afford to hunt as non-residents still can (somewhere), and the residents who can't afford to hunt elsewhere can have a better chance of enjoying what they pay taxes on. I have wanted to hunt Alaska and Africa since I was a young boy. The cost has always put it on the back burner. Should I get the same rights in AK as someone who lives there? Why should non-res get the same priveledges as residents is my question! I hated seeing my home town get taken over by Kalifornians, now I'm here and I can see why they wanted out. It is sad that they bring thier crappy politics with them and try to change the very things that attracted them there in the first place. What's funny is when I go home to visit and get harassed by some guy who "don't appreciate you Californians being here" and when you corner them you find out they weren't born there, and 9 out of 10 times they or thier family are transplants themselves! Nate | |||
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HMMMM 43 out of the 48 that voted believed that things priority should be given to the residents. I wish that another couple thousand would have voted and maybe it would show a change. So far looks like 43/48 believe in states rights, and more imporantly in the rights of resident hunters! | |||
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Wow only 48 people cared enough to even vote, and I was not one.  What an overwhelming number.  If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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What an old worn out battle cry. If you guys want to hunt Alaska or Nevada then either pay up, or move there. I assume we're all big boys here and have the ability to move. If jobs, family, allegies, etc. are keeping you stuck in some city or crappy State, then you've set your priorities. Live with your choices. Brian | |||
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BW, I obvious don't have a problem hunting in Alaska. I was there last year and I am coming back next year for Caribou and I would like to get a Wolf this time.  Alaska is one of the most beautiful States I have ever hunted, and well worth the money spend. Plus the locals treated us very well and we all felt very welcome there  If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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I don't think non-residents have rights. They are offered privilege at the state's leisure IMO.  If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky? | |||
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Well Said!!! Nate | |||
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Redhawk your an Apache? How about if we open up the White Mountain Res. to the public? Do a lottery and make all Indian Reservations open to lottery just like the rest. We'll do 50% tribal hunters and 50% non tribal and the price will be $50 for everyone. That's fair, that's what your talking about, right? Make it all equal. Since you Easterners all think it's goverment property, let's make it open to everyone. | |||
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I have read all of George Taulmans BS and lies that he is posting on his web page. Well me being me, I wrote him and told him what I thought, and low and behold he answerd. I commend him for that, but him and his actions are wrong and do nothing but commercialize hunting and drive a wedge between many hunters. Here is my email to him and his reply's. His first reply: Mr. *****, I believe I will call you on your statement that the Constitution grants States Rights to discriminate against other Americans. Please state where it is found or admit that actually you are the liar. So far, neither two Federal District, one Federal Appellate, or one U.S. Supreme Court has been able to find it, maybe you know more than they do. Somehow, I doubt it.... God Bless You. George USO I wrote: ***** ****** wrote: Your diatribe about Senator Reids bill is doing nothing but driving a wedge between hunters across the US. I disagree with you and hope your goal fails. You are attacking states rights granted by the constitution of the United States using a lame lawyers loop hole over the interstate commerce act. I am and will do every thing in my power to bring attention to your greed and lies. I do agree with you on the nonresident wilderness law in Wyoming that forces them into hiring a guide. The way I see it, you can do anything in wilderness areas, from fishing, hiking, or running naked in the woods, but you can't hunt. Now that is discriminatory!!!! ****** ***** Worland Mr. *****, We are still waiting on your citing of the article of the Constitution that give you the right as a resident to discriminate against the rest of the UNITED States of America. George USO *****, I am guessing that since you haven't come up with the article of the Constitution you boldly eluded to, then you are...... Another mistake of yours is that your taxes and wages go for your game management, actually nonresidents subsidize your state for the majority of the game management cost, they pay, so you can go on the cheap side. We do agree that God is on everyone's side. Take care, George USO ****** ***** wrote: Mr. Taulman, I have hunted and owned firearms since I was 8 years old. I am now 48. That's 40 years of partaking of a privilege granted by the states that I have lived in. The 10th amendment of the Constitution grants states individual rights. Among those rights is the right of the state to grant a privilege to hunt. As well as the states right to manage wildlife in that particular state. I used to subscribe to the Outdoor Channel and greatly enjoyed your show. As far as I was concerned it was on of the best on the network. But as soon as you filed your suit I dropped the programming and told them so as to why. I also returned orders of merchandise to Crooked Horn Outfitters because of Lennis Janzens support and promotion of you and your show. I also voiced my opinion of discontent with your lawsuit to any other supporter of yours. Hunting is a privilege not a right, the management of those animals by a state is a right. Your accusation of discriminization against nonresidents, would be the same as residents being discriminated against when we have to compete with nonresidents for a hunting tag in our home state that we support via taxes, wages, and goods purchased on a daily basis. Thank you for the reply, Best Regards, ****** **** PS, God is on our side! :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: United States Outfitters To: ******* Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 7:31 PM Subject: Re: hunting Mr. *****, I believe I will call you on your statement that the Constitution grants States Rights to discriminate against other Americans. Please state where it is found or admit that actually you are the liar. So far, neither two Federal District, one Federal Appellate, or one U.S. Supreme Court has been able to find it, maybe you know more than they do. Somehow, I doubt it.... God Bless You. George USO ******, I can tell you have not read the Court rulings, just passing along what you have heard. The Court ruled that hunting is commerce, triggered by just having hunters cross State lines. Purchasing animal parts was the condition that Game and Fish Departments is spinning to you good ol' boys. The States ARE charged with the management, you said the Constitution stated you could discriminate against nonresidents. Simply a lie. I know it is hard to be fair-minded as a resident. It is the same about the Wildlerness areas, I have got Wyoming residents screaming that nonresidents have no right to hunt there either.. George George USO ****** ****** wrote: George, the 10th amendment grants states rights, rights to manage wildlife, as well as a multitude of other issues. With out this, why have states? One nation, similar to the former USSR. And to use the interstate commerce act as reasoning puts a price on all wildlife. Maybe we need to bring back market hunting. But banning the sale of any wildlife part would settle this issue! Sincerely, ******----- Original | |||
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Kudu56 has Titanium bolas, congrats! | |||
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