Ah Christ Jesus, this is getting ugly.

I'd just as soon tell them to get their cattle off of public land. This "western welfare" needs to come to an end. Remove the cattle and the wildlife will benefit. Cattle prices are the highest in history so it's time to increase lease rates. If western welfare ends that would help those of us who own their ranches by reducing the number of cattle going to market.

quote:

I'm sure they would have to fly M16 to Denver or Salt Lake to remove the cowboy boot from his ass!

I will be happy to pm you my address if you think you are big and bad enough to try.

I haven't been to Texas for quite a few years, and I have a spare pair of boots.

Nah! It's is just getting fun!


I expected that kind of reply from a Texan, I have one that lives across the street!

My money is on Madgoat!

I was kidding about taking my boots to Texas, but seriously M16, you are way too proud of your money. If you own a ranch, why do you care about hunting in other states? With a ranch in Texas a guy should be able to hunt turkeys, doves/quail, possibly waterfowl, whitetails, and of course you can buy and release all of the exotics you want. I think your idea of a ranch and mine must differ significantly, or maybe you are just a greedy Texan.

Jayco,

Idaho is out of elk because of the wolves? Uhhhhh.....no.
Gonna have to call bullshit on that one.
I'm sure I'll regret it after arguing with VG until I wore the ends of my fingers off, but wolves are not wholly to blame.

Idaho "Here we go again..." Vandal

I guess I'm just a greedy Texan. Just like all those other greedy people who don't hunt inside their home state. Like the people who are so greedy they hunt in Africa. Greedy like kudu when he goes bear hunting to Alaska when he could hunt in Wyoming. Greedy enough to buy landowner tags whenever I want to go on a hunt.
I want it all.

Nope. I fish in other states and countries, and some day I'm going to go hunting caribou in Canada. Gotta save some money first. Ever had to save money for something? The money part aside, I think the difference between you and me is that I go to a different state/country to fish or hunt and while there, I appreciate what they have to offer. I appreciate the fact that they let me fish/hunt there at all. I try to learn something about how the people there live and learn about the area and geography. I learn about the wildlife in the area. I could be wrong, but you give me the impression that all you go there for is to kill stuff, and you probably treat people like they owe you something. If you don't get want, you bitch about it until you do, which inclines me to call you a greedy Texan.

Sorry M16, Texas is too far of a drive and waste of my time just to kick one guys ass. You would probably just "buy" you way out of an ass whooping anyway. I don't know why a Texan has to leave Texas to hunt either. You guys have screwed up that place so bad with all that exotic shit, I'm sure you can find a high fence to kill one of everything we have running around here. You don't have to ride a horse, waste time walking or rough it in the high country either...

MG

Maybe it was M16 on the great white pheasant hunt we saw on The sportsman's Channel?

quote:

I'd be interested in hearing how hunting is a family value?

Spyro Andes: You have got to be kidding me if you need me to explain how getting Grandfaathers, Fathers, Sons, Uncles, Nephews, Aunts, Neices, Grandmothers, Mothers and Children together for a wholesome healthy outdoor activity is a family value. They get together to enjoy some of the most beautiful scenery that God ever made. They work together to fill the freezer with natural meat. They work together to set up camp, bring the harvest of the field to the table. They show the children how they are a part of the natural world in the predator/prey equation. Children are allowed the opportunity to learn some of the "OLD" ways before their grandfathers pass away. Conversations are held around a campfire with no interuptions from a TV, cell phone etc...

You want me to allow a way of life like that to change? You have got to be one the most self centered people on the earth to think I should change my familt tradition and traditional western values so you can come chase a deer. Have you ever done an extended family hunting trip for deer or elk? If not, I pity you because you have not lived until you see a youngster walk up to their first big game kill with their grandfather's hand on their shoulder.

THAT IS CALLED A FAMILY TRADITION AND I WILL DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO NOT LET IT END!!!!! My family has hunted deer and elk from the same area for over 50 years.

Mac

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoVandal:
Jayco,

Idaho is out of elk because of the wolves? Uhhhhh.....no.
Gonna have to call bullshit on that one.
I'm sure I'll regret it after arguing with VG until I wore the ends of my fingers off, but wolves are not wholly to blame.

Idaho "Here we go again..." Vandal

Idaho Vandal-Just trying to put alittle humor into a sometimes nasty post.Theres no on the fence it appears on this one.I can only say in a trip to Priest Lake fishing that my wife counted more out of state plates than Idaho plates and just hunting this last year where I go it was pretty much the same thing on the roads.Seems to me atleast from what I see, theres plenty of out of staters hunting and fishing Idaho.

Doesn't bother me that much.Just my observations.

Jayco

Mac, very good point and yours is the same as mine. It is time with my four sons, friends (nonresidents to boot) and yes I have a few friends,same area if we draw, time in a wall tent, long days and short nights, some times success and sometimes nothing. But a tradition, and some thing that is looked forward to for the next year even before the current one has ended.

One friend of mine from Thermopolis, has actually had the pleasure of his grandad, father, sons, and his grandson in camp all at once. Thats five generations of the same family in the same meadow in the same tent camp.

And any person, of any color, creed, or religion is welcome at the coffee pot in his camp. Now that is tradition.

And yes they had trouble last fall for the first time in 20 years. Nonresidents set up camp in the same meadow, 1/2 mile away. The very first day in camp they set up a shooting bench and started sighting in thier rifles. "In camp", right in the middle of elk country. One guess where they were from???????


Yup, Texas!

Jayco:



IV

quote:

Originally posted by jaycocreek:
.Theres no on the fence it appears on this one.
Jayco

BULLSHIT!!!!
I'm on the fence. Don't try speaking for everybody, butt-boy!!!

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:

Spyro Andes: You have got to be kidding me if you need me to explain how getting Grandfaathers, Fathers, Sons, Uncles, Nephews, Aunts, Neices, Grandmothers, Mothers and Children together for a wholesome healthy outdoor activity is a family value.

No, you need understand the difference between FAMILY VALUES and FAMILY ACTIVITIES or the difference between TRADITIONAL FAMILY VALUES and FAMILY TRADITIONS.

Traditional Family Values is a buzz word for a the Traditional Christian Morals and Ethics.

Tell me how hunting, no matter who is in camp, has anything to do with Christian Morals and Ethics?

Maybe these links will be more helpful...

Revolution in Family Values

American Family Association

Just like crack... say no to buzz words...

SA, I agree with MAC 1000000% on this one and I must say you are being quite the selfish fool. Your spin is very transparent. Whether MAC calls it family values, family activities, tradition, or just plain old hunting in his state with his loved ones, you will not be able to confuse the facts, the main fact that you want to deprive MAC, me, and others of their opportunity to hunt in their home state, but you would have none of it if you were threatened the same.

MAC, I am with you. Crawled (good deal on our bellies) 300yrds with my 7yr old daughter (I call her my "burning bush", those familiar with the OT will probably know what I mean) last season to make a clean kill on a pronghorn and would have to say it was one of my best experiences (will also add that it was one of the few occasions where I could find the time/resources for a one day hunt out of state in WY and I was very happy for the opportunity to plop down the non-res $ to do it). I am the first/only big game hunter in my family in this country and have dreamt for 25yrs of the family values shared hunting with my family. The two years prior I carried her (50#'s of wiggly 5-6yr old) in a backpack small game hunting for up to 10 miles at a time (man I was tired.....) and will never forget how ticked off she would be when I missed (ever try to hit a flying pheasant with someone on your back cheering you on, I will chuckle about that until my dying day). Got my 6yr, 3yr, 3week old boys following in their big sis's footsteps and their is not a day that goes by that I don't think about sharing nature/outdoors with them. Now if we can keep the selfish from messing it all up.....

Deke.

quote:

BULLSHIT!!!!
I'm on the fence. Don't try speaking for everybody, butt-boy!!!

Speaking of butt-boy's, Spyro go crawl back under the rock from which you emerged. I think you have no family, and no values. And it is understandable, and forgiveable, since you are from Kalifornia!

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

I agree with MAC 1000000% on this one and I must say you are being quite the selfish fool.

Actually, a selfish fool is a person that believe that not only he but his entire family needs to be guaranteed tags to enjoy each other's company in the woods.

I guess that nobody in Arizona goes elk hunting with their family/friends since the draw is so tough.

Nevermind that I have 'hunted' elk in Arizona almost every year for the last 10 years because some good friend or family member drew a tag.

Nevermind that I have 'hunted' sheep several times over the last decade as different friends of family members drew tags.

Only a selfish fool needs to have 5 elk tags so he can spend time with his family.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

Your spin is very transparent. Whether MAC calls it family values, family activities, tradition, or just plain old hunting in his state with his loved ones, you will not be able to confuse the facts, the main fact that you want to deprive MAC, me, and others of their opportunity to hunt in their home state, but you would have none of it if you were threatened the same.

I have no spin... It is a legitimate opinion based upon fact.

People and families adapt to changes of the times.

If CWD causes Wyoming to cut tags by 70% would you be against the cut because it would end your 'family tradition'?

Does everybody in Wyoming makes their hunts a giant family reunion? Should tag preferance be based on the number of generations or number of family members that will be in camp?

I mean why should the solo resident hunter take a tag from a 'reunion camp' family?

Does large non-resident 'reunion camp' hunters get precedence over the solo resident?

What about the non-resident that is part of a 'reunion camp' of mostly residents, does he get preferance?

This entire 'reunion camp' thing is a smoke screen. Basing tag allocation decisions upon a 1%-10% occurance is foolish.

Again, this problem can be summed up as such...

The residents' greed makes them unwilling to give up anything.

The State Agencies' greed makes them gouge the non-resident so they can keep the residents happy by subsidizing their hunting.

That is it... no more... no less...

Anyway, I am glad you had fun with your daughter...

Did you need a tag to enjoy the hunt or was her tag sufficient?

Who would you like it is you were unable to make the same trip with your youngest buy, when the time comes, so Mac's great grandfather, who won't leave camp at all, is getting his gauranteed tag for his hunting reunion.

Thanks for making my point.

SA

Now would this be fair. Let say all States put the Deer, Elk, Bear, etc. up to the highest bidder. Resident or Non-Resident can bid. Only so many tags available and only the highest bidder gets to hunt. That would eliminate the resident non-resident issue all together right?

Sure it sounds far fetched but maybe one day that is what is going to happen. We are part ways there in some States. I would hate to see that happen, but it sure looks like the future to me. JMHO.

quote:

Does everybody in Wyoming makes their hunts a giant family reunion? Should tag preferance be based on the number of generations or number of family members that will be in camp?

I mean why should the solo resident hunter take a tag from a 'reunion camp' family?

Does large non-resident 'reunion camp' hunters get precedence over the solo resident?

What about the non-resident that is part of a 'reunion camp' of mostly residents, does he get preferance?

This entire 'reunion camp' thing is a smoke screen. Basing tag allocation decisions upon a 1%-10% occurance is foolish.

Again, this problem can be summed up as such...

The residents' greed makes them unwilling to give up anything.

The State Agencies' greed makes them gouge the non-resident so they can keep the residents happy by subsidizing their hunting.

That is it... no more... no less...

Anyway, I am glad you had fun with your daughter...

Did you need a tag to enjoy the hunt or was her tag sufficient?

Spyro, you surmise to much, and your ignorance feeds your assumptions. A 7 year old can't buy an antelope tag here. It sounds like she was just with her father having a great experience.

Who or where was it said that everyone had tags? My friend whom I mentioned above, his family only applys for cow tags, of which there are many times, tags left right up until opening day, and availible to residents and non residents alike. And not everyone is there to hunt. I don't think 25% of the tags here would be considerd greed. And as cow, doe fawn tags are, NR's account for over 40% of those. No one mentioned guarenteed tags to residents, but residents should have preference over nonresidents, in every state! You are wanting residents to give up thier 75% chance of drawing for some one that doesn't even live in that particular state. There isn't a gaurenteed tag in Wyoming except for the Govenors tags and the few general areas.

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:

Who or where was it said that everyone had tags?

No one mentioned guarenteed tags to residents, but residents should have preference over nonresidents, in every state!

You are wanting residents to give up thier 75% chance of drawing for some one that doesn't even live in that particular state.

You need to read this thread... All people keep harping on is that residents can't afford to lose anymore tags to non-residents and, in fact, many want to limit it to a 10% quota.

People are citing taking children hunting and family camps as the reason behind this...

Frankly, even a blow hard like yourself, knows this line of argument is a load of bull.

I have stated several times that Colorado's 60/40 system is a fair system.

Wyoming's 75/25 is close.

However, Nevada's 95/5 system was rediculous and Oregon's 97.5/2.5 system should lead to criminal charges.

The fact that you can only associate this entire topic to Wyoming's situation tells me more than enough. Your concern is not what is fair or right but rather what is best for a Wyoming resident.

Because if it was the former, rather than the later, you would be just as furious at the mistreatment on non-resident hunters in the western states.

SA

quote:

Frankly, even a blow hard like yourself, knows this line of argument is a load of bull.

Speaking of blow hards, funny that you mention blowing, how was M16?

All this family value talk...


HELL, IN WYOMING HUNTING IS RELIGION!!!

MG

SA, Yes some of these states may have systems that are ridiculous, and I agree that some of them don't seem fair, but you, me, and everyone else gets to vote with our feet, and we will go to where we hunt, whether it is based on whether we just like it, or for economical reasons, in this case our feet will take our money where we want it to go. States (Colorado included) will respond to capital interests. States are free to do what they please on certain issues, and if the state wants to adopt a policy that favors its citizens and loses money because of it, they will have to live with the consequences, they are free and should be free to make those decisions.

One thing that is getting me steamed is the law suits that pander to a judicial system (unscrupulous lawyers/judges, wealthy and/or selfish folk that hire and/or pander to them) bent seriously out of whack, making very BAD interpretations of constitutions (in this case, state's rights) to benefit the ones holding the $. One only has to read a little of Jefferson's later writings to realize how brilliant he was for noticing the rising problem of a bad intentioned judiciary almost 200 years ago. This is a bad problem in this country and this hunting issue is only one of many that is feeding this judiciary which has become a glutton.

The other thing that steams me is the selfish idea that you and others believe that you should have equal rights to state privileges in another's home state. It is a privilege for any of us to hunt in our own state. It is a generous privilege to hunt in another state. I KNOW this is a problem with just about every big game animal in our state (anybody can get an Elk tag even if it is over the counter). How can you justify that????? I spend lots of time in the woods without a tag and right now I am the only big game hunter in my family and have never had 5 Elk tags, and don't know if that is even possible . Gosh, with all that AZ Elk hunting, Sheep hunting several times, etc, in addition to the hunting in your own home state, I would hope that you would be pretty happy. In Colorado it takes 10-20 years to draw a Sheep tag in a 1/2 decent area. Seeing that I am 41, I will consider it a blessing if I get to go 1-2 times in my own home state in my LIFETIME. If the state decides that reasonable CWD measures require me to not hunt in my home state, I am okay, the survival of the species is more important than that privilege. I am not okay if they say you should get to hunt in my home state as easily or before me and my kid's can. I believe MAC and I are in the same home state, but if we were not, I would be okay if Mac's kin did whatever they wanted with their tag/time in their home state, it would be selfish of me to believe otherwise, rude of me to act accordingly. Like I said I am thankful for WY giving me the opportunity, no way are they obligated to do so.

Redhawk1, that is certainly what I fear, lets hope not and work our butts off to see that it does not happen.

Deke.

quote:

and have never had 5 Elk tags, and don't know if that is even possible

Deke,
There are 'Group' or 'Party' applications for most all western states (for NR's). Some years back, a group of 6 that I knew applied for an undersubscribed unit and all were successful on the draw and the hunt. As of late (for Co.) several friends and I have put in for group applications and were successful. Usually one or two of the group will have to drop out for one reason or another, etc.

Now, in Wyoming (and other states), if you draw the tag, you use it or eat it unless you produce a death certificate. In some cases you'd garner a preference point. I mention this because Co. is so forgiving in this regard. That is one way that Co. could increase their revenue and still have left over tags to sell, maybe?

quote:

Originally posted by Dungbeetle:

quote:

The idea a state would get hard up and sell public land to individuals doesn't fly. We'd make a hell of a lot more money off natural resources if the Feds didn't meddle.

_____________
It does fly, Dempsey. States do swap properties to developers and retain mineral rights. It happened in your corner of the world around Flathead Lake.

True, but swapping ain't selling to raise funds . I'd like to see a lot more swapping to turn the checker board patterns of BLM lands into accessible, larger chunks. There are a lot of sections surrounded by private land that serve no use to anyone but the owner of the ajacent property.

quote:

I'd like to see a lot more swapping to turn the checker board patterns of BLM lands into accessible, larger chunks

________

Swaps (can) lead to sales. Some of the so called strategic swaps are long miles apart and not necessarily adjacent or close coupled to one another. And they may even be a one for 10 piece swap, for example, with part or all of the 10 being sold or further swapped.

Your attached quote: Agree with that 100% and it would make hunting life so much easier. The checkerboard does, however, discourage a lot of out of state hunters from applying. Many of these NR's, of course, dont know the value of BLM maps,a GPS and an odometer or they are just too lazy to bother with digging through it.

I did see, just last Sept, Wyo., Area 50, county road - a group of fellows from Oregon who had a ranch truck, game warden, and sheriff's deputy at their 2 trucks. The 2 Oregon trucks were off the road and they were clearly parked on(by the BLM map) private property. There was a nice herd of Lopes in the distance that had 2 shooter bucks (on the same private land) sparring for their harems. Trespassing in Wy, as in other locales, can be a serious matter. That Ranch Hand did not look happy.

Sidenote: Good to see 2 opposing Camel Jockeys agree on something for a change!

Dungbeetle, what happens in the crater stays in the crater. That's the beauty of this site

The appeal of living in the West is the vast public lands. It is very rare to find a local that wishes to open to flood gates to non-resident hunters. We live here and tolerate the negatives such as lower wages to do so and don't look highly upon turning our back yard into a playground, we get enough of that with the rich and famous buying up private lands and driving up taxes for their neighbors.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

Yes some of these states may have systems that are ridiculous, and I agree that some of them don't seem fair, but you, me, and everyone else gets to vote with our feet

So you'd give up hunting completely?

Because if you are talking about just going to another state... why wouldn't they increase their fees or adjust their quotas due to the increased demand?

Frankly, we can't even come within a hundred yards of each other on this subject but you think that all hunters would organize to boycott an unfair state? Or would those states just cater to the non-residents with the most $?

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

One thing that is getting me steamed is the law suits that pander to a judicial system (unscrupulous lawyers/judges, wealthy and/or selfish folk that hire and/or pander to them) bent seriously out of whack, making very BAD interpretations of constitutions (in this case, state's rights) to benefit the ones holding the $.

These states left no other choice...

Let me put it this way, you incur some damages from another party.

You offer a more than reasonable settlement, one that is actually a little less than the damages incured, and the other party continually tells you to pound sand... what would you do?

Would you keep offering the settlement or would you file a suit and try to take him to the cleaners?

These states have had 20 years to correct their non-resident exploitation... they have been several warning shots fired over their bows... you know how they responded? By flipping the non-resident the bird and jacking up prices.

What did they think was going to happen? That eventually someone wouldn't sue them?

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

The other thing that steams me is the selfish idea that you and others believe that you should have equal rights to state privileges in another's home state.

No I don't... you need to stop exaggerating my position. I have said repeatedly that Colorado's 60/40 split is a fair system.

However, if one wanted to, it is very easy to make a case for equal rights on federal lands.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

It is a privilege for any of us to hunt in our own state. It is a generous privilege to hunt in another state.

Actually, in many states, in their constitution, hunting and fishing are listed as rights.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

Gosh, with all that AZ Elk hunting, Sheep hunting several times, etc, in addition to the hunting in your own home state, I would hope that you would be pretty happy.

Again, while I love the chase, I like to pull the trigger once in a while.

I am tired of the only fur in my glass being in the glass of my binos and not my scope.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

In Colorado it takes 10-20 years to draw a Sheep tag in a 1/2 decent area. Seeing that I am 41, I will consider it a blessing if I get to go 1-2 times in my own home state in my LIFETIME.

Unless I get drawn out of state for sheep or buy a tag, I'll never pull the trigger on sheep in my lifetime.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

I am not okay if they say you should get to hunt in my home state as easily or before me and my kid's can.

Well that is plain selfish... you want residents to have firat crack at all tags? Then non-residents get the left overs?

Lol, get ready to pay more for tags... because non-residents won't be subsidizing your hunting for tag table scraps.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

Like I said I am thankful for WY giving me the opportunity.

Would you be thankful if Wyoming flipped you the bird and told you to pound sand?

SA,

I would give up hunting a species if it was in significant danger of being exterminated. If that means completely, then yes, completely. Do I think this is likely in Colorado, NO.

I will hunt other states if my interest/time/resources allow me to, which will in all liklihood be very limited for some time to come.

Whether a state caters to whom ever for whatever where the state has the right to do so, is the states and the states citizen's business, no one elses. I trust the people of a state to elect their own officials to represent their interests to how they see fit. If I don't like what my state officials are doing, I and my fellow citizens will make sure they know about it, and change the government the next election or sooner if possible. As far as other states, I vote with my feet and my wallet, if I think they should here my opinion I try to make myself heard, but respect their right to give me the bird.

As far as law suits, you always have a choice. I think what you are really saying, is if you can't legitamately get what you want, can you sue, and the answer most of the time is yes. It did not take me very long as a business owner to find out about that one. Does not mean the law suit will go anywhere, and if it is successful it does not mean it was the right thing to do, handed down by a fair judge, or a judgement that was constitutional. As far as your analogy of settling damages, how have the states damaged your rights (that you don't have....) in that state?

You have repeatedly said CO has a fair system, and I have said that some states may not have what I would call fair systems. Bottom line, it doesn't matter what you and I think about a 97/3 system where we want to hunt as a nonres. Our rights have not been infringed upon since we never had these rights in the first place.

I did not know that hunting rights were written into constitutions. I will look into my constitution one of these days to see what it says (I believe privilege). Do you know if any of these states you have trouble with give YOU a right to hunt in their state?

You made it sound like you were hunting sheep and elk in other states, not simply glassing them. I guess bad communication.....

I agree that me wanting tags in my state before nonres is selfish just like wanting somthing in my refrigerator of my home is selfish, true, but can't you do better than that???? What do you call sueing to get a tag as easily or easier than another guy in his home state? Whats next, you gonna advocate suing someone for the choclate milk in their frig that you can't have?

If WY flipped me the bird, I would not be happy, but I would respect their right to do so, not file the big puss, can't have it my way, gonna get it know matter what, or you can't have it law suit.

Deke.

quote:

We live here and tolerate the negatives such as lower wages to do so and don't look highly upon turning our back yard into a playground, we get enough of that with the rich and famous buying up private lands and driving up taxes for their neighbors.

And I see no relief on the horizon for that. The taxes are the killer. 2 Montana podnahs (Billings and Bozeman) are about to pull the plug and scoot because of this, one back to Wa., the other next door to Wyoming. The upside is that they have been offered a small fortune for what they have for sale with the one in Bozeman having competeing buyers (3) bidding against each other.

Itsabitch and there "Ain't no Big Rock Candy Mountain" out there anymore, it seems.

Now that we have had some fun and the cry babies are pouting here is some good news. The Reid bill is out of committee and will be up for a vote, soon I hope! Then the will really start! And George and Spyro can go suck the big one!

Washington, D.C. – A bill by U.S. Senators Harry Reid and John Ensign that would protect Nevada’s right to regulate its own hunting and fishing has passed a Senate Committee.

The bill would allow Nevada, and other states, to distinguish between residents and non-residents when issuing hunting and fishing licenses. States have traditionally regulated all hunting and fishing within their borders, but a recent ruling by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals questioned how states can allocate hunting tags for residents and non-residents.

“Nevada sportsmen work hard to enhance the fish and wildlife habitat in Nevada,†said Reid. “Nevada’s hunting and fishing groups are actively involved in local, non-profit conservation efforts. They also support conservation through taxes and fees. Nevadans invest in conserving our fish and game resources, and they should be rewarded for their efforts.â€

“This is a states’ rights issue that should not be subject to federal interference,†Senator Ensign said. “Nevada’s incredible wildlife resources make it a natural attraction for hunters and fisherman, and our state has managed its recreational programs to the benefit of all Nevadans. That is how it should continue to be.â€

Reid and Ensign’s bill would reaffirm the long-standing right of states to make decisions about tag limits and licenses. The bill was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee today, and now goes to the full Senate for approval.


###



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ Return to Previous Page ]

It seems the obvious is overlooked continually by some people in this thread, such as Deke.

This is NOT about state's rights. The states have NO rights on Federal land. I don't think anyone is arguing the right of states to charge what they want to to hunt on non-federal land. That Federal land is under Federal jurisdiction is a fact and has long been a fact, it doesn't take a new court decision to affirm what has always existed. It ain't any given states and, except as they too are citizens of the United States, residents of that state should have no more right to its use, and certainly at the same price as every other US citizen. Anyone want to discriminate in pricing to all others, that is non-US citizens, that's fine with me.

BTW it was ridiculous of Atkinson to say that opening the hunting to all US citizens would decimate the game. It's called game management 101. The quality and quantity of the herd is controlled by the number of licenses issued. Who gets them and how much they should cost is the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
It seems the obvious is overlooked continually by some people in this thread, such as Deke.

This is NOT about state's rights. The states have NO rights on Federal land. I don't think anyone is arguing the right of states to charge what they want to to hunt on non-federal land. That Federal land is under Federal jurisdiction is a fact and has long been a fact, it doesn't take a new court decision to affirm what has always existed. It ain't any given states and, except as they too are citizens of the United States, residents of that state should have no more right to its use, and certainly at the same price as every other US citizen.

That's not entirely true. On U.S. Forest Service lands in many states, hunting seasons, harvest limits, drawing tags, registration tags are all controlled, set, monitored, and regulated by the State Fish and Game departments. In some areas of Alaska, a few of the areas in the National Forests are closed for hunting certain animals to non-residents of the State.

quote:

Reid and Ensign’s bill would reaffirm the long-standing right of states to make decisions about tag limits and licenses. The bill was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee today, and now goes to the full Senate for approval

Let's see, US Senators, draft, discuss,vote on, and pass a bill. Doesn't it then become federal law? Granting states rights? Sure looks like it to me. I guess if that is not a law and or policy, then all the bills passed by the Senate are meaningless! Cool! No laws!

Kudu:

No it doesn't become law. It takes both houses and the President's approval, or at least his non-disapproval. First of all, it hasn't passed yet, and second of all, even if it passes both houses and becomes a new law, it doesn't make it Constitutional. It, like most laws, will be subject to review if an appropriate case comes up as it most certainly will. Amazing to me that you consider unequal treatment before the law on Federal land to be fair. Why do you think that proximity should give anyone preference?

If states have no rights on Federal land then what you are saying, state laws on that land should be null and void? Speeding, drinking, etc;, All federal offenses.

If, or when the bill passes, both houses, and when the president signs it, it should be a done deal. Further lawsuits will be a waste of time and money.

quote:

If, or when the bill passes, both houses, and when the president signs it, it should be a done deal. Further lawsuits will be a waste of time and money

Well at least you're consistent, you're wrong again.