I don't recall saying anything about carrying a .257 Weatherby Magnum, or any gun for that matter. Like I said, I will be hunting the same as any other hunter. Just not shooting.
No guides needed. No out of state fees to pay. No need to worry about getting drawn for a tag.
Same beautiful country. Same animals. Same tactics. Same everything. And if I want a trophy I'll take a photo.

Just making a point 22wrf and giving an example.

Your "hunting" and my hunting have 2 different definitions. Yours is the birdwatcher/hiker category and I mean no slight to you with that description.

Now, if you or anyone does do that and intends to harvest game, you're headed for trouble, fines and banishment. But that would be your call.

Hey, post some of your photos.

BOREAL=

You cannot open a state to the whole world, or the whole world would be hunting in the best state and decimate it....

I think the citizens of a state should and do exercise States Rights over Federal control, hopefully it will always be that way...

10% non resident and 90% resident is a fair and it works, Idaho never sells out its non residents tags anymore....

quote:

There's a gazillion acres in Wy that you can hunt as a non-res and it's Federal Land I'm speaking of.

DBeetle,
Yup, I misstated that. I used to hunt a couple of wilderness areas there. I won't go back because I have to hire a guide to hunt there now. Just kinda irks me. I don't care about the cost. Guided hunts are not for me. But hey, Wyoming wants it that way and they make the rules. I still hunt my favorite areas in Montana and Colorado and am happy to spend my money there.

Boreal, there are lots of places that border the wilderness that you don't need a guide. You are probably aware of that, I think that law is unjust and is just protectionism for outfitters.

tom holland, what do you personally contribute to the growth of the animals in your State????
Last time I checked nature takes care of itself almost all the time. We are just there to manage it.[/QUOTE]
Your kind of sounding like Ward Churchill now playing this word game. Animals here means somewhat different then the meaning on the east coast I guess. We have livestock animals and wildlife and as to personally contribute in what text are you asking time,help
or to fund. I will gladly answer any question as long as there is a clear question to answer.

tom holland, Are you F**king stupid or what. I asked you that question on page one of this thread, on page two you responded. Did it take you 10 days to come up with that stupid answer now?

I think this thread is talking about wildlife not livestock animals. Don't try to make yourself look good on my account. I think you made yourself look like a F**king idiot again.

I am sorry your education level does not allow you to digest such questions in a timely manner. East coast or West cost does not play into this question I asked you a while back. HELLO Mc fly.

Come back to me in 10 days when you have an intelligent question or response. Or ask someone to help you out with a better response. What an ASS.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
tom holland, Are you F**king stupid or what. I asked you that question on page one of this thread, on page two you responded. Did it take you 10 days to come up with that stupid answer now?

I think this thread is talking about wildlife not livestock animals. Don't try to make yourself look good on my account. I think you made yourself look like a F**king idiot again.

I am sorry your education level does not allow you to digest such questions in a timely manner. East coast or West cost does not play into this question I asked you a while back. HELLO Mc fly.

Come back to me in 10 days when you have an intelligent question or response. Or ask someone to help you out with a better response. What an ASS.

Some how I screwed up with the post it was to be deleted I figure it was on the last page and when I saw the day I cancel but it got posted. I apologize I should of posted that 10 days ago and no it didn't take me 10 days to think that up you F**king A**hole.

tom holland, it is apparent I can't stand you and I am sure you feel the same way about me. But I won't loose any sleep over it.

May I suggest we not post to each other any further. Because it does not matter what you say. I just don't like your attitude and I dam sure know I probably would not like you.

It is a case of mind over matter, I don't mind and you don't matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

You cannot open a state to the whole world, or the whole world would be hunting in the best state and decimate it....

Nobody said that it should not be regulated.

The tags issued would not change. Just the the distribution.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

10% non resident and 90% resident is a fair and it works, Idaho never sells out its non residents tags anymore....

Who cares if they sell out?

So if Elk Cow tags in Unit XXX don't sell out, but all other tags are long gone, the distribution was fair?

Frankly, what would be more fair is doing a legitimate distribution based upon a higher percentage of non-resident tags, lets say 40%, and any un-draw tags get reverted into the resident pool.

SA

Redhawk1,

Don't have any problem with non-residents as long as they have a guide for certain animals. I am sure you were out in the middle of nowhere and not seeing anyone is a great thing. I am talking about hunting a 40 mile trail with 100 fricking 4-wheelers on them. That is my concern. I realize that non-resident hunters support our F&G significantly. I don't want to end that, but when it comes to drawing hunts, or areas that have suppressed game populations, I think the resident should come first. The up to 10% for non-residents is fine with me on the drawing permits, but no more. I realize that non-resident hunting plays a big role in Alaska. I guess I was narrowly focused on the area I live and hunt. Alaska is huge and the non-resident hunter in many places doesn't affect the local people trying to get their meat. Thanks for making me clarify the point. I hope you get out to whereever you went and enjoy a great hunt without seeing anyone. Giving your meat away to the village is also a great thing. You are a great example of what a non-resident hunter can do while hunting in remote Alaska. That makes it rewarding and memorable.

mjs3240, believe me, I know the fricking laws of this state, 4 brow tines or 50". It also states that all edible meat be brought out, in some areas it must stay on the bone. Speed limits are 65 in most places, but people drive 80. If I need to explain myself, more non-residents are up here for the antlers and that is fine and dandy, but I have seen them LEAVE a MAJORITY of the meat in the field. That is bullshit and unacceptable. If requiring them to hire a guide gets the majority of the edible meat out of the field, than that is what I support. I enjoy hunting big moose, but also enjoy eating them. The eating them is the most important and when someone busts a moose and gets away with the wanton waste, it really burns my ass. Our law protection is Shitty at best, so believe me, this happens a lot. What about the non-resident that shoots the moose that is only 48" and decides to leave the moose lay? This is my concern. I realize that we don't live in a perfect world, but this is very unacceptable to me. I have busted my ass packing moose out and expect everyone to do the same once they pull the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

Don't have any problem with non-residents as long as they have a guide for certain animals.

I have a big problem with that because the limiting of certain animals to "guide only" for non-residents has turned Alaska into a rich man's game.

There aren't many folks that can afford $15,000 for a Sheep Hunt or $12,000 for a Brown Bear.

It is a dispicable practice. The only reason why it is one the books is because the Alaskan Guides Associattion has the $$$ to get their way.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

I am sure you were out in the middle of nowhere and not seeing anyone is a great thing. I am talking about hunting a 40 mile trail with 100 fricking 4-wheelers on them. That is my concern.

Of the guys that I take up, the last time that they want to be doing is driving atvs on a heavily used trail.

To a man, the guys that I end up taking on my different Alaskan and Canadian hunts truly relish and want that wilderness experience. The feeling like they are the first people to ever hunt this stretch.

What you are describing sounds indentical to the Kenai River congestion that is caused by local and folks from Anchorage.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

I realize that non-resident hunters support our F&G significantly. I don't want to end that, but when it comes to drawing hunts, or areas that have suppressed game populations, I think the resident should come first.

So basically you are saying... thanks for the loot and then give them the boot.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

The up to 10% for non-residents is fine with me on the drawing permits, but no more. I realize that non-resident hunting plays a big role in Alaska.

You think? I don't

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

Alaska is huge and the non-resident hunter in many places doesn't affect the local people trying to get their meat.

But in an earlier thread you expressed that you were concerned that non-reisdent would lead to overcrowding.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

It also states that all edible meat be brought out, in some areas it must stay on the bone.

Do you know how many locals that I have seen take the rib meat? Hint: Not many.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

If I need to explain myself, more non-residents are up here for the antlers and that is fine and dandy, but I have seen them LEAVE a MAJORITY of the meat in the field. That is bullshit and unacceptable.

Who cares what they hunt for? Does it bother you that they don't for the same reasons as you?

As long as they obey the laws, why do you care what their motivation is?

Frankly, I would think that it would be a little different between resident and non-resident. It is a long ways and alot of $ to go just for a few hundred pounds of meat.

They go for the experience of a lifetime (e.g. not riding quads on some trial) and to see, maybe even shoot, a trophy animal.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

If requiring them to hire a guide gets the majority of the edible meat out of the field, than that is what I support.

Why not just enforce the law on the books rather than enact another law?

Enforce wanton waste laws!

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

I enjoy hunting big moose, but also enjoy eating them. The eating them is the most important and when someone busts a moose and gets away with the wanton waste, it really burns my ass.

Again, why do you take it so personally?

Do you take just as personally when someone steals or commits some other crime?

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

Our law protection is Shitty at best, so believe me, this happens a lot.

So fix it... Fix the enforcement... don't create more useless regulations.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

What about the non-resident that shoots the moose that is only 48" and decides to leave the moose lay? This is my concern. I realize that we don't live in a perfect world, but this is very unacceptable to me. I have busted my ass packing moose out and expect everyone to do the same once they pull the trigger.

What about the resident that shoots the 48" moose and decides to leave it lay.

I realize that I don't live in a perfect world but this is unacceptable to me.

I have busted my ass packing moose and I expect everyone to do the same.

BTW, remember, horns and cape should always be the last load!

SA

Northway, I can't wait to get back up to Alaska. Not only was my hunt a great adventure, I meet some extremely nice people up there. A self guided hunt in the Arctic circle is truly an experience.

I just wish my wife was as adventurous as I am. I would love to move to Alaska.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
tom holland, it is apparent I can't stand you and I am sure you feel the same way about me. But I won't loose any sleep over it.

May I suggest we not post to each other any further. Because it does not matter what you say. I just don't like your attitude and I dam sure know I probably would not like you.

It is a case of mind over matter, I don't mind and you don't matter.

Your right Ward Churchill. No more post!

tom holland, just like a little bitch. You felt like you had to get the last jab in. You are just an uneducated piece of trash.

When you grow up come back an talk to the real hunters in here. You can't even stick to the topic.

You cannot tell the difference between your anal orifice and a hole in the ground. You are a troll if I ever seen one.

I am done wasting my time with you.

Lets be honest here, those in favor of non-res getting more tags are basically saying that there rights in other states are as important or more important than the residents of those states. How so?

Like I mentioned before, ALL deer tags in Colorado are draw only. I guesstimate that at the end of the day the split between res and non-res is 50/50. Many of us in Colorado do not get a deer tag every year. Why should a non-res get a tag in my home state when I cannot get one? I asked this question a while back and I don't think it was ever answered. Many non-res complaining about this have NO problem getting to hunt deer in their state EVERY year and sometimes their situation allows them to kill many deer in their state. I say all residents should get 1-2 big game tags for 1-2 species (we have 10 big game species here) every year first in a res only draw. After that, have a left over draw that is open to all with no residential preference. I am not sure how the distribution would work out and maybe it would not be perfect, but the concept of resident not getting to hunt, but the non-res does get to hunt, does not work and no matter how how you slice it, it is not fair to the res in their own state.

Deke.

Deke, why not travel to the states that have lots of deer and endless nonres tags. Sounds like the Colo greenie thing is getting on your nerves so why not a restful deer and hog hunt in say Alabama or Missouri? Also anyone notice the number of belligerant dipshits that hail from Wyoming?

Deke, I understand what you are saying, but you can go to other States that have over the counter deer tags,like the non-residents that come to Colorado. It is not a one way Street there.

I hunt Delaware & Maryland 90% of the time. If I go out of these two States it is for game other than deer. I go for Elk, Bear, hogs etc.

But if my State had a lottery system I would still apply in other States or go to States with over the counter tags. It is not the non-residents fault your State has a lottery system.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

Like I mentioned before, ALL deer tags in Colorado are draw only. I guesstimate that at the end of the day the split between res and non-res is 50/50.

Actually, the distribution is 60% Resident and 40% Non-Resident in Colorado. I believe that all landowner permits, regardless of the user's residency, come out of the non-resident allocation.

Anyway, I don't know any non-residents complaining about Colorado's allocation.

Colorado isn't pulling the same cr@p as Oregon (Residents get 98.5% of the antelope, 97.5% of the Deer and 97.5% of the Elk tags) or Nevada (Residents get 95% of the Elk Tags).

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

Many of us in Colorado do not get a deer tag every year. Why should a non-res get a tag in my home state when I cannot get one? I asked this question a while back and I don't think it was ever answered.

Because you will not pay $300 to hunt deer in Colorado.

Because you will not pay $500 to hunt elk in Colorado.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

Many non-res complaining about this have NO problem getting to hunt deer in their state EVERY year and sometimes their situation allows them to kill many deer in their state.

Then apply for tags in their state.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

I say all residents should get 1-2 big game tags for 1-2 species (we have 10 big game species here) every year first in a res only draw. After that, have a left over draw that is open to all with no residential preference.

Then you can complain how your Wildlife department is broke.

Colorado hasn't raised fees for residents in almost 15 years... How do you think has been giving them their money?

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

I am not sure how the distribution would work out and maybe it would not be perfect, but the concept of resident not getting to hunt, but the non-res does get to hunt, does not work and no matter how how you slice it, it is not fair to the res in their own state.

Again, I am not convinced that a person's state of residence should really matter when it comes to hunting FEDERAL lands.

How about you explain to me... Why does a non-resident alien have the exacts same rights as a non-resident when it comes to hunting in these states?

SA,

You have good points, but I feel the way I do and not much will change that. Law enforcement is shitty at best. Sure I would love to see it be better, but budgets and limitations hamper that. Bottom line, I don't feel non-residents should be on an equal playing field as residents. That is nuts. I doubt I will ever see that in my lifetime as when game populations get low enough, the state will go into some sort of "locals" first and that will elminate non-resident hunting. As torn as I am about the feds, at least they "protect" the local peoples right to subsist. Example in point, last night, I took my daughter out to get her first caribou. A federal hunt/takes place on a refuge/only local residents that are qualified my hunt it. Is it special preference? Damn right it is. I would feel no worse if you had it in whatever state you lived. Obviously we won't agree on the non-resident thing. There is no way I will ever agree that non-residents should have equal say/opportunity in hunting Alaska's animals as do residents. I am sorry to say, but I can bet that about 90% of the people in AK agree with that.

As for the drawing permits. How can someone from another state say they should have the same right as a resident to draw those tags? The reason there is a drawing permit system is there is a limited # of animals that can be killed per year. It is rididculous to say that someone from another state should have as much chance as a resident to get drawn. Absolutely doesn't make any sense to me. If you want to hunt here/move here, otherwise pay the money or miss out. Except for caribou and even blacktail deer, our game populations aren't like the lower 48. We don't have 1 million deer running around for everyone to shoot. Moose, sheep, and bears will only reach a certain population that the land allows. A totally different scenario if you ask me.

As for guides, if we didn't have it set up the way it is, we wouldn't have the game populations that we have. Could you imagine all non-residents hunting sheep, moose, and bear without guides? ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS! We wouldn't have any game left and we would be left like you poor SOB's in the lower 48 putting in and hoping that we would get drawn for permit hunts every year. That is bullshit. Without our current system, Alaska's game populations would be screwed. I think you know that as well. THe last thing us Alaskan's want is to have the state separated into a bunch of drawing areas. That is how you guys operate down south, we don't want that.

I do take this personally. I love to hunt. I trap the area that I hunt. I eliminate wolves from the area that I hunt. Bottom line is I am very passionate about hunting. It is life. I want an Alaska that my kids can hunt and not have to wonder about: did I draw my tag? That isn't what Alaska is about. You won't find a more passionate person on hunting. I won't apologize for taking it personal. Again, I did explain earlier, that I am more concerned abou the area I hunt on overcrowding. We do have some easy access and more and more non-residents are coming up to hunt it. While I don't have a problem with shooting an animal for its antlers, I do have a problem with the meat being left. We live in an area where moose and caribou are huge parts of peoples diets. Most people both native and white depend on this meat source. It isn't a game. Although no one is going to die if they don't get a moose, it is a part of our life. You just don't stop doing something that your life is used to doing. It becomes part of you. I do realize there are many areas of this great state that are pretty much hunted by non-residents and guides. That is fine. No problem there. I am looking more towards the future and the possiblity of the entire state being divided into drawing hunts. That is absolutely retarded. Who in the hell wants that? Non-residents who should have a 50% chance of drawing one of those tags? Bullcrap.

I am just as harsh on resident that waste. They should be banned from hunting. I am just stating from my perspective that most residents here are hunting for meat, and I can show you carcasses that are nothing but a blood stain, especially from the natives here.

Bottom line, Alaska does not want to become like the lower 48 and Alaskans will do everything to protect THEIR resources which are the animals.

Redhawk1,

I hope you do make it back up and have another great hunt. It is a great state and glad you enjoyed your experience up here and hope you have many more. You are right, whether its the bear, the wolf, the splendid colors of the tundra, or even the northern lights, you just can't help but be awed by the experience. I am always finding something new to enjoy everytime I go out.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
tom holland, just like a little bitch. You felt like you had to get the last jab in. You are just an uneducated piece of trash.

When you grow up come back an talk to the real hunters in here. You can't even stick to the topic.

You cannot tell the difference between your anal orifice and a hole in the ground. You are a troll if I ever seen one.

I am done wasting my time with you.

Are you the only one that gets the last word . I guess it's OK when we all play by your rules and the name calling is just like what Ward Churchill does when he confronts someone you could of arose above that and been a gentleman. Anal comment etc just bring you into the gutter with the rest of the trash.

quote:

Also anyone notice the number of belligerant dipshits that hail from Wyoming?

Gosh not me Ricky! I guess I will settle for the dipshit remark, which is far better than an egotistical, arrogant, know it all, goat humper from Texas! Pretty much hit the nail on the head didn't I "ol" bambi buster with the shoulder canon and telescope optics ?

Lick M16's nuts, I know you both would enjoy it!

Spyro's continual anal suggestion that all federal land should have tags, and they should be equal to eveyone, shows, how ignorant he and other nonresidents really are. Like I said, 50/50 is fine with me but as Spyro says. "Ya'all" have no clue! Do some research and do the math.

Redhawk, Why should I have to go to other states instead of my own? Personally, I would like to come visit all of you and hunt your game, but time/resources are much more than my 1hr drive to my prefered deer area which if I am lucky I can hunt a full day at a time, most likely only a morning or afternoon, and that is all the time and resources that some of us hardworking people can muster. If some of you have more time and money and can travel to hunt, then you are blessed, and should not complain, if you are like me, you should not be forced out of first shot at hunting your own state over someone that is out of state with more resources and wants to hunt in your place.

SA, you are correct about the draw distribution, but you are leaving out the private landowner tags that mostly go to non-res (yes, they pay a higher price for them, but they can obviously afford it, and are more times than not, glad to pay it.... good for them and I mean that!). It is estimated that once the private landowner tags are factored in, it is very close to 50/50. As for whether I will pay $300-$500 for a tag, that is not what the price would if all paid the same. I believe that if you multiply .6(res) by $25 and .4(nonres) by $400, the average tag for conversation purposes would be $88, which I would pay, but I am not advocating that, since if I hunt in another state (which I did more before I had a wife and 4 young kids that need more of my time), I should pay a higher fee than a res. As for Fed land, I believe that you and I have equal rights to Fed land and we pay the same amount of taxes for that right. We may have to pay different fees to hunt/fish the animals on that land, and as far as I and the US constitution is concerned, that is the state's right to determine. We are a nation of "United States" in which certain rights are the states and no one elses, if the people trying to change this had the guts, they would try to change the constitution by getting 38 states to ratify the Constitution, but they realize that states (their's included) would never go for this, they have more money than guts, they have more liberal judges to pander to, and so they sue. As far as your last question about nonres alien, I did not understand it, how about clarifing it.....

Deke.

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:

quote:

Also anyone notice the number of belligerant dipshits that hail from Wyoming?

Gosh not me Ricky! I guess I will settle for the dipshit remark, which is far better than an egotistical, arrogant, know it all, goat humper from Texas! Pretty much hit the nail on the head didn't I "ol" bambi buster with the shoulder canon and telescope optics ?

Lick M16's nuts, I know you both would enjoy it!

Spyro's continual anal suggestion that all federal land should have tags and they should equal to eveyone shows, how ignorant he and other nonresidents really are. Like I said, 50/50 is fine with me but as Spyro says. "Ya'all" have no clue! Do some research and do the math.

Spyro's remarks aren't worth much Kuda56 as he lives in a state that doesn't allow non residents to hunt elk on state or federal land. He just wants to come out here and change the system. Notice how great all these non reisdent are good at telling us how lousy (plus other names) we are because when we want only the right to hunt in our home state. I think Ray has a good point on 90% for residents and 10% for non. I just figure these non residents who post here aren't worth the trouble unless one just like to get into with them. I'm just going to support the more restrictive tags for the non resident and will voice that at the DOW meetings and at the state senate level.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:
Redhawk, Why should I have to go to other states instead of my own? Personally, I would like to come visit all of you and hunt your game, but time/resources are much more than my 1hr drive to my prefered deer area which if I am lucky I can hunt a full day at a time, most likely only a morning or afternoon, and that is all the time and resources that some of us hardworking people can muster. If some of you have more time and money and can travel to hunt, then you are blessed, and should not complain, if you are like me, you should not be forced out of first shot at hunting your own state over someone that is out of state with more resources and wants to hunt in your place.



Deke.

Deke, you don't have to leave you own State to hunt. I am sure there is a lot of game you can hunt in your State besides deer. Here in Delaware the only big game is Whitetail.

As far as having the time and funds to travel to different States, yes I can. I also work hard for my money and make sacrifices to allow me the luxury to do such.

You also bring up that land owner tags get bought up by non-residents with big pockets. Well if you want in on that, put out the money. You won't have to fly from out of State which will save you some bucks. Nobody is holding residents back from buying land owner tags.

We have over the counter deer tags in Delaware, but one thing is having prime land to hunt. If you don't have a lease or own land or even have someone willing to let you hunt on there land you are on State land. And in Delaware that is not much at all. So all of us have to make sacrifices in order to hunt. Sure in Delaware we can get the tags over the counter, but little land to hunt is a problem here. We all have to deal with some kind of restrictions. That is why I hunt out of State also.

I agree Tom, but unfortunetly the squeeky wheel gets oiled, or stroked like Spyro and the Texas boys prefer! It's just not as simple as taking an elk or deer area (unit) and dividing the tags 50/50. It makes me think they have never been! Spyro lives in Kalifornia and has residence in Idaho. He is a typical Kalifornian, he left Kalifornia because of what he didn't like and now he wants to change things the way they were in Kalifornia. He probably has dual residency in both states, which for hunting is illegal. He like most NR are

NORTHWAY

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

Law enforcement is shitty at best. Sure I would love to see it be better, but budgets and limitations hamper that.

So your proposal is to have guides doing the policing and turn hunting into a pastime of the elite? That is how hunting was killed in the UK.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

Bottom line, I don't feel non-residents should be on an equal playing field as residents. That is nuts.

Nobody said equal... just more fair.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

There is no way I will ever agree that non-residents should have equal say/opportunity in hunting Alaska's animals as do residents. I am sorry to say, but I can bet that about 90% of the people in AK agree with that.

Well because over 90% of Alaskans are receiving some form of government handout already... why would they want to give up their "hunting welfare"?

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

As for the drawing permits. How can someone from another state say they should have the same right as a resident to draw those tags? The reason there is a drawing permit system is there is a limited # of animals that can be killed per year. It is rididculous to say that someone from another state should have as much chance as a resident to get drawn. Absolutely doesn't make any sense to me.

What doesn't make any sense to me is a state, like Nevada, that is comptised of 93% Federal Land... is only giving 5% of their tags to non-residents.

What doesn't make sense to me is a state, like Oregon, that is comprised of 53% Federal Land... is only giving 1.5% of their antelope tags and 2.5% of the deer/elk tags to non-residents.

What doesn't make any sense to me is a state, like Arizona, charging non-residents $3400 for an early season Elk permit.

I'll tell you what else doesn't make any sense... what would you say to paying $200,000 for a vehicle that costs residents, of the state where it is produced, $10,000?

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

If you want to hunt here/move here, otherwise pay the money or miss out. Except for caribou and even blacktail deer, our game populations aren't like the lower 48. We don't have 1 million deer running around for everyone to shoot. Moose, sheep, and bears will only reach a certain population that the land allows. A totally different scenario if you ask me.

I think that all of the industrial states should institute a 1000% tariff on all goods leaving the state....

What you don't like paying $55 for a gallon of milk?

What you don't like paying $4000 for your Remington ADL, $3800 for a Leupold and $250 for a box of shells?

Don't like it? Well otherwise move here or pay up.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

As for guides, if we didn't have it set up the way it is, we wouldn't have the game populations that we have. Could you imagine all non-residents hunting sheep, moose, and bear without guides? ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS! We wouldn't have any game left and we would be left like you poor SOB's in the lower 48 putting in and hoping that we would get drawn for permit hunts every year. That is bullshit.

So you method of game management is to only allow locals and the non-resident wealthy to hunt? Talk about bullshit.

Open it up and put it in a fair quota drawing.

But again, the only reason why the "guided only" rule was instituted was for another subsidy for Alaskans. This time the guides are benifiting.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

Without our current system, Alaska's game populations would be screwed. I think you know that as well. THe last thing us Alaskan's want is to have the state separated into a bunch of drawing areas. That is how you guys operate down south, we don't want that.

Of course you guys don't want that... you have a sweet gig the way it is...

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

While I don't have a problem with shooting an animal for its antlers, I do have a problem with the meat being left.

That is why Alaska has wanton waste laws... I could recite them to you if you'd like...

What meat do you have to recover from a black bear shot in April from Unit 2?

What meat do you have to recover from a black bear shot after May in Unit 2?

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

We live in an area where moose and caribou are huge parts of peoples diets. Most people both native and white depend on this meat source. It isn't a game. Although no one is going to die if they don't get a moose, it is a part of our life. You just don't stop doing something that your life is used to doing. It becomes part of you.

Now you have sold me... you win the argument!

I didn't know that you had grown accustomed to it.

I hate to tell you but Masa Whitey was accustomed to owning slaves... I bet if Lincoln knew that he would have never bothered with the abolition of slavery.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

I do realize there are many areas of this great state that are pretty much hunted by non-residents and guides. That is fine. No problem there. I am looking more towards the future and the possiblity of the entire state being divided into drawing hunts. That is absolutely retarded. Who in the hell wants that? Non-residents who should have a 50% chance of drawing one of those tags? Bullcrap.

What is even more bullcrap is a little kid, that is a hunting fanatic, knowing that he will probably never get to hunt the sheep that he read about because he is living in Atlanta and won't be able to ever afford the small fortune to hunt with a guide.

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

I am just as harsh on resident that waste. They should be banned from hunting. I am just stating from my perspective that most residents here are hunting for meat, and I can show you carcasses that are nothing but a blood stain, especially from the natives here.

Moose is my favorite meat and I pick a carcass clean... do I get a discount or some prefered treatment?

How about the resident that doesn't utilize all the meat, does he get punished in some way?

quote:

Originally posted by Northway:

Bottom line, Alaska does not want to become like the lower 48 and Alaskans will do everything to protect THEIR resources which are the animals.

You call it protecting the resources... I call it greed.

KUDU56,

quote:

Originally posted by Kudu56:

Spyro's continual anal suggestion that all federal land should have tags and they should equal to eveyone shows, how ignorant he and other nonresidents really are. Like I said, 50/50 is fine with me but as Spyro says. "Ya'all" have no clue! Do some research and do the math.

Actually, I have clearly stated... time and time again... my suggestion is for a fairer distribution of tags to non-residents and fairer pricing of tags for non-residents.

Now if it occurs because Taulman suit forces a state to do it or because a state volentarily institutes a fair quota (e.g. COLORADO)... I don't care...

Personally, I think the fair quota system is the best way because it guarantees the resident a certain percentage of tags.

But don't get me wrong, I hope that Taulman blows the top off Arizona and Nevada... They have been screwing the non-resident for years and, when given the chance to fix their ways, they flicked off non-residents.

Are you so dense to believe that if Arizona bumped their non-resident pool from 10% to lets say 30% that Taulman would have sued?

DEKE,

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

SA, you are correct about the draw distribution, but you are leaving out the private landowner tags that mostly go to non-res (yes, they pay a higher price for them, but they can obviously afford it, and are more times than not, glad to pay it.... good for them and I mean that!). It is estimated that once the private landowner tags are factored in, it is very close to 50/50.

Actually, I still believe that all of the landowner permits are considered to be part of the non-resident quota but you would be surprised how many of those tags are bought by folks from Denver.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

As for whether I will pay $300-$500 for a tag, that is not what the price would if all paid the same. I believe that if you multiply .6(res) by $25 and .4(nonres) by $400, the average tag for conversation purposes would be $88, which I would pay, but I am not advocating that, since if I hunt in another state (which I did more before I had a wife and 4 young kids that need more of my time), I should pay a higher fee than a res.

6 x $25 = $150

4 x $400 = $1600

$1600 + $150 = $1750

$1750/10 = $175

It would be $175 per tag not $88.

Colorado just raised their resident rates, first time since 1992, from $20 to $30 for Deer and from $30 to $40 for Elk and residents are complaining.

How do you think they would take the $25 to $175 jump?

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

As for Fed land, I believe that you and I have equal rights to Fed land and we pay the same amount of taxes for that right. We may have to pay different fees to hunt/fish the animals on that land, and as far as I and the US constitution is concerned, that is the state's right to determine.

Actually we don't... if I want to hunt Wilderness in Wyoming, I need a guide.

Speaking about states rights... I have yet to find an answer as to why the Feds control all fish on Yellowstone and collect all the monies (flat $10 per day regardless of state residency).

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:

As far as your last question about nonres alien, I did not understand it, how about clarifing it.....

A person coming from, lets say, Japan has the exact same rights as me when it comes to hunting any of these states...

Again, how is this fair?

Tom Holland,

quote:

Originally posted by tom holland:

Spyro's remarks aren't worth much Kuda56 as he lives in a state that doesn't allow non residents to hunt elk on state or federal land. He just wants to come out here and change the system.

Why would you assume that it is just there?

See I am not as greedy as you and don't expect handouts.

quote:

Originally posted by tom holland:

Notice how great all these non reisdent are good at telling us how lousy (plus other names) we are because when we want only the right to hunt in our home state. I think Ray has a good point on 90% for residents and 10% for non.

And if Ray was the head of a game commission... his name would be on a Taulman suit.

quote:

Originally posted by tom holland:

I'm just going to support the more restrictive tags for the non resident and will voice that at the DOW meetings and at the state senate level.

Good, I am all for people voicing the opinion and excercising their rights...

Just remember, people have the right to have a differing opinion...

And people will sue to make sure their rights aren't being infringed upon.

Quote from Spyro Andes: Colorado just raised their resident rates, first time since 1992, from $20 to $30 for Deer and from $30 to $40 for Elk and residents are complaining.

How do you think they would take the $25 to $175 jump?[/quote]

Your facts are a little off here buddy. I don't know a single resident in Colorado that is complaining about the increase in resident fees. Matter of fact, the hunters have pushed for this for several years. The only thing that kept it from happening was a partisan split in the state legislature that voted along party lines and killed this requested increase several times in the past couple years. As a resident in Colorado, I understand that the Colorado Division of Wildlife needs a budget to operate. It gets no funding from the state tax pool. It is funded soley from license sales, matching federal funds (Pittman/Roberts etc..) and donations like the state tax refund contribution. With the continuing rise in prices for absolutely everything, the fee increase is long overdue.

I've been following this thread since it's commencement and have kept quite until now. I'm career military and get to go home once a year. I like to try to tie that into a family hunting trip. For the last several years, my family hunt has resulted in members not being able to draw a deer tag. It's a little hard to swallow when I see vehicles from everywhere else hauling out does and fawns. You can not convince me that someone from someplace like Alabama with a season limit of something like 30 deer is coming to Colorado (or any other western state) to hunt a doe mulie for meat. That tag should stay with the residents. I don't begrudge the non-residents a tag (Colorado gives 40% to them) but doe deer and cow elk tags should be kept in state as much as possible.

Hunting is a tradition based on family values for most of us and when families can no longer hunt in their home state together because the tags are not given out, we lose our way of life. This fighting among ourselves will accomplish what the anti-hunters have been unable to.

My 2 cents worth.

Mac

SA,

Damn man, you are gonna get carpal tunnel!

quote:

And people will sue to make sure their rights aren't being infringed upon

Hunting is not a right, it is a privelege. Much the same as a drivers license.

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:

Your facts are a little off here buddy. I don't know a single resident in Colorado that is complaining about the increase in resident fees.

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=322297

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:

Matter of fact, the hunters have pushed for this for several years. The only thing that kept it from happening was a partisan split in the state legislature that voted along party lines and killed this requested increase several times in the past couple years.

I know that some Colorado Sportsmen pushed for the fee increases and that the NRA opposed the fee increase.

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:
I don't begrudge the non-residents a tag (Colorado gives 40% to them) but doe deer and cow elk tags should be kept in state as much as possible.

sound reasonable

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:

Hunting is a tradition based on family values for most of us and when families can no longer hunt in their home state together because the tags are not given out, we lose our way of life.

Not to sound harsh but 'ways of life' change...

I'd be interested in hearing how hunting is a family value?

SA,

I agree with Kudu, you are gonna hurt all of our trigger fingers .

You are right about the $175 (I accidentally divided by 2 , but we are not talking the $300-$400 you were throwing around and I would pay $175 to hunt Elk.

As far as Wyoming, I will have to claim ignorance and wonder why they require a nonres to have a guide (maybe some can enlighten us, bear identification so endangered grizz are not accidentally killed..... ).

As far as fishing on the Yellowstone, I chose not to, but did not and would not sue them. I traveled east and enjoyed the trout on the Shoshone instead.

As far as japanese hunting as easy in a state as you would be a nonres in, it may not be fair, but it is the states perogative (I obviously support states rights). I will say that I would be one of the first to support your hunting rights if the japanese or anyone else were significantly infringing on your ability to hunt in your home state.

As far as your "harsh" comment to MAC, it sounds like you don't have much interest in anything except YOU, and sounds a tinge like Rebecca Peters at the Kings College debate against Wayne LaPierre when she bluntly told the competitive pistol shooter to simply "find another sport" so she could ban his competition firearm because that is what SHE thought was best. Its extremely selfish to think you can have what your neighbors have or your neighbor should only have what you have, and will destroy your objectivity (may have already...), sense of fairness (may have already...), and the things you are trying to get (other's hunting privilege in their states).

Deke.

quote:

Originally posted by Deke:
SA,

I agree with Kudu, you are gonna hurt all of our trigger fingers .

You are right about the $175 (I accidentally divided by 2 , but we are not talking the $300-$400 you were throwing around and I would pay $175 to hunt Elk.

As far as Wyoming, I will have to claim ignorance and wonder why they require a nonres to have a guide (maybe some can enlighten us, bear identification so endangered grizz are not accidentally killed..... ).

As far as fishing on the Yellowstone, I chose not to, but did not and would not sue them. I traveled east and enjoyed the trout on the Shoshone instead.

As far as japanese hunting as easy in a state as you would be a nonres in, it may not be fair, but it is the states perogative (I obviously support states rights). I will say that I would be one of the first to support your hunting rights if the japanese or anyone else were significantly infringing on your ability to hunt in your home state.

As far as your "harsh" comment to MAC, it sounds like you don't have much interest in anything except YOU, and sounds a tinge like Rebecca Peters at the Kings College debate against Wayne LaPierre when she bluntly told the competitive pistol shooter to simply "find another sport" so she could ban his competition firearm because that is what SHE thought was best. Its extremely selfish to think you can have what your neighbors have or your neighbor should only have what you have, and will destroy your objectivity (may have already...), sense of fairness (may have already...), and the things you are trying to get (other's hunting privilege in their states).

Deke.

Finally going to do something about that bull Jester that was shot in Oct. Belong to CSU even sawed his horns off so no one would shoot him but some cow hunters don't know which one but DOW is heading to Tx and NM to question acouple of hunters. What they think happen is the guy from texas shot him(cow) may of not seen the fence mesh in his scope but being good hunters the guy from NM seeing the elk wasn't dead just finished him off both hunters took off. One of the guys left his binoculars and they have both shell casing. The Texas Rangers have questioned the guy in Texas. The rest of the guys in their hunting party is the ones that gave DOW there names. That bull had a value of 30K was to be used for breeding some CWD cow elk. The funny thing is had they read the rule book they could of just turned themselves in more than likely if it was an accidenatl shooting might of got off with a small fine $100 no points now if convicted they get put into that 18 western state computer system and no hunting for them.

Why all this Bologna?Lets just go Hunting.The opinions on this board are not going to change one Iota of anything.Just hormones a flying and Money Talks but Bull$hit walks..

Rules are Rules boys and we ain't gunna change it here.P.S.Idaho is out of Elk thanks to the Wolves?

From Ideeho.....Jayco.

quote:

P.S.Idaho is out of Elk thanks to the Wolves?

Well why don't the state of Idaho eliminate the wolves. According to the little faggot with the goat fetish the states control the wildlife.

Looks like the states don't have the final say. It doesn't matter to me. If you hate non-residents that much let the wolves have their day. I enjoy hunting Canada and Mexico as they appreciate the income from non-residents.

M16, no one, as far as I can find, advocated hate or total discontent towards nonresidents.. I hunt with at least one one every year, I have emphatically posted several times, 50/50 split is fine with me on federal land. But pussgut bambie busters like you, or ya"all, as you would say, have no clue as to the management implications that would arise with a federal permit for big game on federal land in Wyoming.

The wolf is an endangerd species, even though here, in Wy, they have exceded recovery goals by 5 times. No state has any, or very little say over endangerd species.

But I still enjoy the whinning you and the other NR put forth, and I still have no use for George Taulman. He, comes across as though he is the friend of every hunter, especially NR, his only concern is filling his pockets!


I will leave the homophobia and beastiality to you!

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:

M16, no one, as far as I can find, advocated hate or total discontent towards nonresidents.. I hunt with at least one one every year

Yea and you aren't racist either because you once had dinner in the same room as colored folk.

Your actions and words in this thread speak volumes about your dislike of the non-resident. You denial to the contrary holds no water.

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:

I will leave the homophobia and beastiality to you!

Of course you would... Why would a homo, like you who was asking people to lick his nuts, be homophobic.

I don't know what passes for queer in Wyoming but, in California, I hate to tell ya cowboy, you'd be a rump ranger .

Hey Kudu, I would like M16 to tell a Wyoming rancher that he needs to split up his grazing lease on public land with the nonresidents to make it "fair".

I'm sure they would have to fly M16 to Denver or Salt Lake to remove the cowboy boot from his ass!

Life isn't fair boys.

MG

quote:

Life isn't fair boys.

That is for sure, it isn't a warm and fuzzy place as Spyro and M16 want and desire. They can rant and rave, bitch and whine, and lick each others nuts!

Spyro,
My dislike for NR is only for dipshits, god I hate to lower myself to your level, like you!

You don't and probably never will understand why you just can't arbitrarliy have tags for federal land and tags for the rest of the state.

You and the likes of Ricky, and M16, are just grasping for straws and wanting another hand out at others expense.

[quote];I don't know what passes for queer in Wyoming but,[quote]

What would? Well you of course!

Also I am not a cowboy, to many people like you and M16 like them cowboy wrangler butts!

quote:

Yea and you aren't racist either because you once had dinner in the same room as colored folk.

I don't think you want to go there, you don't know the color of my skin, like I know your sexual preference!