quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

With that sort of attitude, why is he still a game warden then?

Good union.

In most states having a bad altitude is not enough to get one fired.

I can assure here if a law enforcement person gets more than one complaint against him he gets to answer questions.

And if his behavior continues he gets fired!

I wouldn't call it a bad attitude so much. It's more of an ego thing in my opinion.

quote:

I can assure here if a law enforcement person gets more than one complaint against him he gets to answer questions.And if his behavior continues he gets fired!

Not here.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
well they may force their way in my house or camp without a warrant but the first six or so are not walking out....a thug is a thug

That now qualifies as the dumbest post on this and the other thread dealing with GWs!!!

Hey Top come kick my door in at midnight with no authority to do so we'll quickly find out whom is "topgun" or not! This is AMERICA not NAZI Germany

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

With that sort of attitude, why is he still a game warden then?

Good union.

In most states having a bad altitude is not enough to get one fired.

it takes way more than a bad attitude or lazy work ethic to get a state employee fired.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

As a retired GW I'm very surprised you would make those comments against the GWs when you have only read what Aaron posted and you/we have no idea

Maybe he knows to well the BS some try and pull.

I made the comments because anyone reading what Aaron wrote could easily see that the ONLY reason for the encounter was to harass Aaron. They did that and got their fingers slapped.

A game wardens job is to try and get compliance with the game and fish laws and regulation of their respective states. By whatever means accomplishes that end, be it talking, teaching, tickets, or jail. Just what were the GWs trying to accomplish with Aaron????

I spent 26 years in game and fish enforcement in Alabama. I led the state in arrests for seven straight years..I worked hard and smart. I targeted major violations and gave more verbal and written warning than tickets. I never wrote a ticket because "I" needed an arrest, but because an arrest was what was needed to move towards compliance with the law. I would rather talk someone into compliance than put that person in jail, but I was prepared to do either.

I disagreed with the GWs in Aarons case simply because they were wrong in their words and actions. I have worked with GWs that were/are very good professional Officers...and others that wern't. All, as in any profession, are not the same.

I delt with a GW in New Mexico that was a real asshole, skinny 30 year old from the Bronx. Rude, unprofessional, lazy, mouth running jerk. The local LEOs would have nothing to do with him.

So they ain't all nice guys like me...

DTala, You sir sound like a gentleman, I respect that. Sir come knock on my door at midnight and I will put a pot of coffee on while we discuss the matter like men.

One thing that has been demonstrated in this discussion and has cropped up in similar discussioons on here concerning interactions between citizens and various LEO's, is that for whatever reason some citizens have somewhat of a phobia when it comes to dealing with an LEO of any kind.

I have noticed the same basic theme on other sites and in real life situations.

I guess I have been lucky in my life because I have never had to deal with any of the real a-holes.

But I do know and have known a lot of folks that the mere mention of an LEO of any type, they go on point like a bird dog and go on a 20 minute dissertation about how sorry all LEO's are.

Yes, there are LEO's, regardless of type that are living examples of why some people should never hold a position of authority, but there are some that are really good people and just do their job as assigned.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

With that sort of attitude, why is he still a game warden then?

Good union.

In most states having a bad altitude is not enough to get one fired.

I can assure here if a law enforcement person gets more than one complaint against him he gets to answer questions.

And if his behavior continues he gets fired!

I wouldn't call it a bad attitude so much. It's more of an ego thing in my opinion.

When brash attitudes collide nothing good will come of it.

quote:

When brash attitudes collide nothing good will come of it.

Ain't that the God awful truth!

It occurs quite frequently on here because some folks believe everyone should agree on every issue/every time, while others don't view things from that angle.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

When brash attitudes collide nothing good will come of it.

Ain't that the God awful truth!

It occurs quite frequently on here because some folks believe everyone should agree on every issue/every time, while others don't view things from that angle.

There are some folks here who would do well to never enter the U.S. on a private boat. The powers of the USCG and CBP compared to game wardens will scare the hell out of you. With approval of the courts BTW. And running your mouth about your rights after you are boarded just about guarantees an ending you won't like.

If you have done nothing wrong then civility goes a long way in preventing problems.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
One thing that has been demonstrated in this discussion and has cropped up in similar discussioons on here concerning interactions between citizens and various LEO's, is that for whatever reason some citizens have somewhat of a phobia when it comes to dealing with an LEO of any kind.

I have noticed the same basic theme on other sites and in real life situations.

I guess I have been lucky in my life because I have never had to deal with any of the real a-holes.

But I do know and have known a lot of folks that the mere mention of an LEO of any type, they go on point like a bird dog and go on a 20 minute dissertation about how sorry all LEO's are.

Yes, there are LEO's, regardless of type that are living examples of why some people should never hold a position of authority, but there are some that are really good people and just do their job as assigned.

I agree with you 100% on what you posted CHC! All I keep trying to bring out on these threads Aaron has started is that not all are good and not all are bad in any one segment of our society including those in any type of LE career! Anyone that has a bad encounter with a LEO or GW and then says all are bad just because of that are wrong and that's all I've tried to convey in my posts.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
well they may force their way in my house or camp without a warrant but the first six or so are not walking out....a thug is a thug

That now qualifies as the dumbest post on this and the other thread dealing with GWs!!!

Hey Top come kick my door in at midnight with no authority to do so we'll quickly find out whom is "topgun" or not! This is AMERICA not NAZI Germany

Nobody is going to kick your door in without a warrant and to say you're going to take down 6 is more than far fetched. I know where we live and I doubt that any GW is going to be that stupid or brave to do that and that's the LE people we're discussing here, not LEOs that are doing a search for 20 kilos of heroin or coke!

I understand what you have been saying.

Well I do not comply if it is in violation of my rights as an American, game law etc. . I am a retired oral surgeon and no lawyer.... but my 3 brothers are. Violate my rights and it will be kicked out of court, threaten me with armed intrusion inside my home and it will be settled with 30+1 7.62x39...I'm old and got prostrate cancer...you want to go home and make love to your wife tonight or try to bluff me?????

quote:

Anyone that has a bad encounter with a LEO or GW and then says all are bad just because of that are wrong and that's all I've tried to convey in my posts.

I've not seen one person on this thread or any other say all LEO's/ Game Wardens are bad. I think you just like to argue and will side with Law Enforcement good/ bad/ right wrong, you said in one of your PM's to me that an accusation of a crime is as good as a conviction in your book.

The facts are no matter how open minded you are if you've had dealings with LEO's of any form and any of those officers abused their power or lied or were threatening it affects how you view and or trust Law Enforcement.
This is the United States, you have rights as a citizen here, if anyone in a position of authority abuses your rights there is recourse.
I am always courteous when dealing with all LEO's and usually have a decent outcome, that is not the case if they over step their bounds and start lying or trampling my rights.
To blindly trust that all supposed authority figures have your best interest at heart is as ridiculous as thinking all authority figures are bad.
Proceed with caution is my motto.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
One thing that has been demonstrated in this discussion and has cropped up in similar discussioons on here concerning interactions between citizens and various LEO's, is that for whatever reason some citizens have somewhat of a phobia when it comes to dealing with an LEO of any kind.

I have noticed the same basic theme on other sites and in real life situations.

I guess I have been lucky in my life because I have never had to deal with any of the real a-holes.

But I do know and have known a lot of folks that the mere mention of an LEO of any type, they go on point like a bird dog and go on a 20 minute dissertation about how sorry all LEO's are.

Yes, there are LEO's, regardless of type that are living examples of why some people should never hold a position of authority, but there are some that are really good people and just do their job as assigned.

Maybe 5ou have been lucky or Texas has better people. I have only met 1 azzhole game warden, but then, I have only ever met 4 in the field.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
One thing that has been demonstrated in this discussion and has cropped up in similar discussioons on here concerning interactions between citizens and various LEO's, is that for whatever reason some citizens have somewhat of a phobia when it comes to dealing with an LEO of any kind.

I have noticed the same basic theme on other sites and in real life situations.

I guess I have been lucky in my life because I have never had to deal with any of the real a-holes.

But I do know and have known a lot of folks that the mere mention of an LEO of any type, they go on point like a bird dog and go on a 20 minute dissertation about how sorry all LEO's are.

Yes, there are LEO's, regardless of type that are living examples of why some people should never hold a position of authority, but there are some that are really good people and just do their job as assigned.

Maybe 5ou have been lucky or Texas has better people. I have only met 1 azzhole game warden, but then, I have only ever met 4 in the field.

Come to California if you would like to meet some more.

I have never had a bad incident with a GW, but the VAST majority of LEOs I know are oxygen bandits stealing the air good people need to breath.

I worked as a civilian contractor for one of the large agencies here. They were always talking about, "If you say the dog indicated at the front of the perp vehicle, then there is no dash cam video to prove it didn't" or the one that taught his dog to "alert" on a hand command so he could search whatever he wanted, or anything over $100 in cash has to be drug money and we seize it. Keeps the courts busy, for sure. There are notorious cases of Illinois seizing cash and never returning it.

I could go on. 95% of LEOs give the other 5% a bad name. GWs, I never had a problem with.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Anyone that has a bad encounter with a LEO or GW and then says all are bad just because of that are wrong and that's all I've tried to convey in my posts.

I've not seen one person on this thread or any other say all LEO's/ Game Wardens are bad. I think you just like to argue and will side with Law Enforcement good/ bad/ right wrong, you said in one of your PM's to me that an accusation of a crime is as good as a conviction in your book.

The facts are no matter how open minded you are if you've had dealings with LEO's of any form and any of those officers abused their power or lied or were threatening it affects how you view and or trust Law Enforcement.
This is the United States, you have rights as a citizen here, if anyone in a position of authority abuses your rights there is recourse.
I am always courteous when dealing with all LEO's and usually have a decent outcome, that is not the case if they over step their bounds and start lying or trampling my rights.
To blindly trust that all supposed authority figures have your best interest at heart is as ridiculous as thinking all authority figures are bad.
Proceed with caution is my motto.

You just can't wait to try to counter ANYTHING I post and it's getting old Mr. Stalker! Your reading comprehension sucks because that sentence you quoted does not say anything about this thread. However, this thread is basically just a continuation of the other thread that Aaron started and certainly appears to just be an attempt for him to further show that all LE is bad. Maybe you should go back to his other thread and read again where he finally apologized to me for doing exactly that! There are also certainly a number of members that appear to be saying exactly that, but it's also nice to see that a large number feel that Aaron did not handle this latest situation properly on his part IF the incident even happened! I also in my PM did not say that an accusation is as good as a conviction. However, if you have a number of violations that ended up in guilty pleas over more than ten years and in multiple states like he has and a couple of them were not game violations (try forgery for one!) more than makes one feel that the person isn't a saint! I do agree with the last half of your rant though about you rights and definitely feel as you stated in that last long sentence about blind trust...., and I have never said anything that would infer that I have done either.

quote:

I've not seen one person on this thread or any other say all LEO's/ Game Wardens are bad. I think you just like to argue and will side with Law Enforcement good/ bad/ right wrong, you said in one of your PM's to me that an accusation of a crime is as good as a conviction in your book.

You are saying it right there in your comment.

You are claiming all LEO's, regardless of the jurisdiction they work for/in, overstep their authority.

I admit that some folks should not be in a position of authority like that, but I have known too many people that at the mention of an LEO of any kind and they go mental.

Some individuals DO NOT want an LEO of any kind, even though they know they were speeding or made a "Rolling Stop" or had one under sized fish or one bird over limit! I have been watching it for a few years now and some folks simply do not want to have ANY sort of an interaction with any LEO of any kind!

Can’t blame most people
We have so many laws on the books, you start reading through laws and hair on your ass will stand up straight

Milan, I heard years ago that an American cannot leave their house without breaking a law!

Do LEOs over step their authority?

Did anyone see the recent series called "Waco"?

Does anyone remember Ruby Ridge?

Is anyone following the local case here of Noor Salman? She is the wife of Omar Mateen, the shooter in the Pulse nightclub massacre. According to the FBI she confessed. Curiously, they neither a video of her interviews nor a audio recording of her interviews. Can you imagine interviewing the wife of a mass murderer and NOT recording every second of it? I can't. Oh by the way, the texts between her and her husband would have to lead one to think she had no clue. Just yesterday, the judge skewered the prosecution for FAILING to disclose information that absolutely proved that this woman was not where the FBI said she was.

I have great respect for law enforcement but they can and do overstep their boundaries from time to time. Having said that, I would have absolutely given my name to the game warden.

I prefer to view all discussions of this kind of topic the necessary price of continuing this grand experiment of human freedom that is the USA.
Since we have all Humans serving as LEO's of all stripes, that means we have flawed LEO's who sometimes do things wrong including infringement on our rights, just as the rest of us do. That can't be denied by a thinking person. Some of the closer observers of LEO business can clearly see the changes that have occurred as the world changed around the LEO's. Again, some were changes for the better and some are not. Some of us Freedom minded persons have looked at Civil Forfeitures laws for example and see vast potential for abuse and in fact have observed actual abuse. Freedom of speech means that we will have to risk listening to the fringes of every issue to be able to participate in that discussion. I for one can handle that.
May God Bless our Nation and continue to grant us the rights that define that blessing.

quote:

I spent 26 years in game and fish enforcement in Alabama

I worked 33 years in state and local law enforcement one runs into all types.

quote:

it takes way more than a bad attitude or lazy work ethic to get a state employee fired

That's very true.

As law-a-biding, civilized adults I think you would want to be as cooperative with LEOs as possible.

If you haven't done anything wrong, you should be comfortable asking questions a lawman asks you.

It is good to know what an LEO can and can not do legally (for instance if a LEO comes to the door of your house to talk about something and says "Mind if we talk inside", always say No, otherwise if he/she sees something "suspicious" that gives them "probable cause" to search your house without a warrant), but I always try to make their job as easy as I can within reason.

BH63

My eldest brother now long retired from the bench he occupied as a county judge for many years has often told us (his three other brothers ) NEVER open your mouth, NEVER agree to any type of voluntary search, NEVER resist arrest, and above all others NEVER!! EVER!! believe a single word any LEO says that begins with " The law states...",OR, " in your best interest..." that is why you have an attorney working for you.

No one cares but I've got a funny story about a warden encounter.

A couple friends and I were dove hunting and the warden pulled up as 2 of us got back to the truck with out limits. The third guy just finished and was walking back as we began counting our doves for the warden.

Sure enough, we were spot-on the legal limit.

I then reached into the cooler for a cold soda pop and the warden went nuts and said he'd have to search the cooler as he'd spotted a bag of dove breasts in a plastic baggie.

For a moment I was perplexed as to why we'd have "dove breasts" in the cooler especially since this was the opening day!!! He grabbed the cooler and pulled out the baggie full of purple PLUMBS and we all had a great laugh...after the warden started laughing, of course.

I've got to admit. Those plumbs did look like dove breasts!

Zeke

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
This reminds me of a time I exercised my "rights."

Remember how a few after years after 911 TSA would always inspect the last and first person boarding a flight? It got to be so ridiculous that no one in first class would want to board. One time I was running late for a connection and was last in line for a commuter flight to the small town in which I owned a house. Sure enough, I was flagged for an inspection. I also knew it was my "right" to ask for a private screening, which TSA did in a nearby bathroom. We finished well before the cutoff time to board the flight, but when I got out the gate agent told me the pilot decided to leave anyway, since he didn't like my "attitude" or something similar.

I was incensed and asked for a supervisor. They put me up in a hotel for the night and gave me a free ticket, but at the end of the day the pilot cost his airline money, I was in a hotel when I really wanted to be home, and in the end airline security was never really in question anyway.

It is absoloutley shocking how many bad experiences you’ve had with airline pilots. It’s almost as if they are seeking you out and harassing you.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
I prefer to view all discussions of this kind of topic the necessary price of continuing this grand experiment of human freedom that is the USA.
Since we have all Humans serving as LEO's of all stripes, that means we have flawed LEO's who sometimes do things wrong including infringement on our rights, just as the rest of us do. That can't be denied by a thinking person. Some of the closer observers of LEO business can clearly see the changes that have occurred as the world changed around the LEO's. Again, some were changes for the better and some are not. Some of us Freedom minded persons have looked at Civil Forfeitures laws for example and see vast potential for abuse and in fact have observed actual abuse. Freedom of speech means that we will have to risk listening to the fringes of every issue to be able to participate in that discussion. I for one can handle that.
May God Bless our Nation and continue to grant us the rights that define that blessing.

Best post on either thread!!!

For the younger guys. Fish cops becoming legendary for their asshatness, goes way back. You can review the Claude Dallas killing (cold blooded murder) of 2 fish and game officers (Elms & Pogue), case (1982) in Idaho. What should have been two murder convictions became manslaughter convictions due to Officer Bill Pogue being such a well know prick and model of a modern day fish cop, that the jury got their backs up. Reputation matters even today.


Also an interesting read about Dallas later escaping from prison being arrested and then found NOT guilty of escape.

This discussion about the 4th Amendment and how it applies to the enforcement of game laws has been interesting, although not particularly informative. And it offers little in the way of explaining or resolving just how things went sideways in the instant case.

I see a rabbit hole, which looks pretty damn crowded after 4 pages.

Two fundamental debate tactics: diversion, and the proffer of a pattern of fact impossible to refute within the constraints of the debate.

So, as others have asked, I'll ask again. Why is it that the same guys have the same problems under the same circumstances, all the time?

quote:

So, as others have asked, I'll ask again. Why is it that the same guys have the same problems under the same circumstances, all the time?

You could ask the same question of some Wardens and LEO's.

My point.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

So, as others have asked, I'll ask again. Why is it that the same guys have the same problems under the same circumstances, all the time?

You could ask the same question of some Wardens and LEO's.

And it should be asked of both types.

I used to work some with a city Officer, a red headed female Officer. Ya had to watch her, she could get a fight started in no time.

I worked with a fellow state Officer that we would invite along when we got bored in the summer. He would always get things going.

I'd say that 75% of the state GWs I worked with were hard working, professional Officers. Some of the others wern't hard working, some not professional.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
This reminds me of a time I exercised my "rights."

Remember how a few after years after 911 TSA would always inspect the last and first person boarding a flight? It got to be so ridiculous that no one in first class would want to board. One time I was running late for a connection and was last in line for a commuter flight to the small town in which I owned a house. Sure enough, I was flagged for an inspection. I also knew it was my "right" to ask for a private screening, which TSA did in a nearby bathroom. We finished well before the cutoff time to board the flight, but when I got out the gate agent told me the pilot decided to leave anyway, since he didn't like my "attitude" or something similar.

I was incensed and asked for a supervisor. They put me up in a hotel for the night and gave me a free ticket, but at the end of the day the pilot cost his airline money, I was in a hotel when I really wanted to be home, and in the end airline security was never really in question anyway.

It is absoloutley shocking how many bad experiences you’ve had with airline pilots. It’s almost as if they are seeking you out and harassing you.

Surestrike:

You obviously don't like me, for whatever reason I really don't understand. I have never said anything negative about you: on the contrary, I have been positive about your hunts.

I can think of one other issue that had to do with the same policy on the one year anniversary of 911 - my scheduled flight was switched from NWA to American (seems no one wanted to fly that day so the NWA flight was cancelled), and I was last in line for that flight, so I got inspected. I complained about that, and the American pilot was going to leave as well, but a friend of mine, who was also a pilot and regularly commuted with me from northern MN, vouched that for me that I was not a terrorist. If I mentioned that on AR, it had to be when I first joined.

Other than that, how many bad experiences have I had? You seem to be quite interested in keeping track, so please, do share.I have had more "bad experiences" on AR with you than all the pilots I have flown with combined.

You seem like a very bitter person.

quote:

Originally posted by DTala:
I used to work some with a city Officer, a red headed female Officer. Ya had to watch her, she could get a fight started in no time.

I worked with a fellow state Officer that we would invite along when we got bored in the summer. He would always get things going.

I'd say that 75% of the state GWs I worked with were hard working, professional Officers. Some of the others wern't hard working, some not professional.

A red headed female Officer you say! Just her hair color should tell you that would be the case, LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

However, if you have a number of violations that ended up in guilty pleas over more than ten years and in multiple states like he has and a couple of them were not game violations (try forgery for one!) more than makes one feel that the person isn't a saint!

What is this about?