quote:

What is this about?

It is about the Freedom Of Information Act!

Each and everyone of us has a "Paper Trail' that can be followed by anyone wanting to take the time.

Crap like this is WHY those that want to stop hunting are going to win!

Hunters for what ever reason simply cannot set aside their PERSONAL BELIEFS and OPINIONS and unite to try and save hunting for future generations, not sure why no one cares and maybe it is time to let the ones that want to take hunting from us win!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

What is this about?

It is about the Freedom Of Information Act!

Each and everyone of us has a "Paper Trail' that can be followed by anyone wanting to take the time.

Crap like this is WHY those that want to stop hunting are going to win!

Hunters for what ever reason simply cannot set aside their PERSONAL BELIEFS and OPINIONS and unite to try and save hunting for future generations, not sure why no one cares and maybe it is time to let the ones that want to take hunting from us win!

I have no idea how you can put those two things together, but you seem to have a penchant for saying that just about anything that comes up on various threads is going to end hunting some way or another!

Really simple, this site is dedicated to hunting/shooting/firearms, is it or is it not?

Why are we attacking each other?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Really simple, this site is dedicated to hunting/shooting/firearms, is it or is it not?

Why are we attacking each other?

Unless you think that everyone on every subject should always agree it certainly isn't "really simple" as you put it! We also aren't attacking each other, but hopefully most of the time are having honest adult discussions on here. The latter sometimes gets out of hand and I readily admit that I'm as bad as anyone on here when I think I'm right and someone disagrees with me!

When I was a kid about 16, I got caught in the middle of dressing out a poached deer. "Stand up and get away from that gun, drop the knife and turn around". I was pissing my panties of course.
Soon as I turned around the GW said: "damn it, you're George's kid!" let's load this buck up and don't you ever let me catch you again!"

Back in '98 I took a kid out with me on the boat. He had to shit, "not on my boat you don't". Beaching it I hulled it on a rock.
Couple miles across to the boat ramp where the truck was. By the time we got there we were in knee deep water. Wasn't anyway in hell I was going to slow down in the no wake area, I had it running bow up to take on less water. Lot's of people were yelling at me to slow down I had my hands full. Kid was bailing with a bucket, two spouts blowing water out the sides.

I raised the motors up and ran it up on the ramp. Pump going, he was bailing.
Rangers came: "why didn't you slow for the no wake area?""

"I didn't think we could swim that far!" "Huh?" They looked in and said I'd made the right choice.
It sat there three hours pumping water out both sides. Crowd came around to look too. Most just shook their heads and walked away.

The funny part of it was the name of my old boat is: "The PITA". Each letter: P ain I n T he A ss!" Painted right on the sides.
Had two rangers come along one time I tied at the dock.
He got a chuckle out of the name, the gal acted pissed about it.
It's a 19' cuddy. Sure holds a LOT of water when it's knee deep!

I knew we were not in danger as I'd forgotten to put the plug in once and had half again as much water in it and still floated.

Elk hunting, usually soon after we get to camp and start setting up the GW's show up to check everyone out. They're always nice.

Being a long haul trucker for ten years I've had my share of contacts and tickets. Almost a million miles will do that.

One time in 1970 I'd been out chasing coyotes across the pastures in my '60 Galaxie and ripped the exhaust system off. I came home 200 miles and had the new parts in the car. On I-70 I opened it up, sounded like a jet. Saw a trooper on a bridge watching. Ahh hell, no way to deny it now. Just kept the hammer down. 4 miles down the hwy there he was leaning against his patrol car with lights on. I pulled up knowing I was in deep ticket time. When I got stopped I held my wrists out so he could cuff me, he just laughed. He was nice; "have you ever heard of VASCAR?" "i have, no clue what it is though". "we measure a distance, when you go past A, we click the timer, again at B and it averages your time and speed" "ok" Come I want to show you. "107.+mph" on a three mile run. Hey, can't deny that one. While he was writing it up I noticed gas dripping from my tank. Plug was knocked loose. He took me 5 miles to a shop to get some hose, a bucket to catch it in and back. Then waited until I got it stopped.
One of the nicest LEO's I've ever met. Ticket was the biggest I've ever gotten too!
It's all in the attitude of both parties. He had me, no use arguing about it and he was pleasant about it too, no ranting about my speed, or no exhaust system.

George

Aaron, I feel your pain. I had an incident back in January while deer hunting at a club I belong to in Clayton, AL. One morning at 9:00 AM while sitting in a box blind overlooking a green field, I heard footsteps approaching from my right rear. I looked, and here was a very large man approaching in a green uniform. He identified himself as a Game Warden and asked to see my hunting license, which I produced. He asked me where my corn bait was located, and I told him that since I knew that baiting wasn't legal, there was none. He inspected the area around my blind, and of course ruined my hunt with all the scent he left in the area. I gave up hunting for the morning and returned to our camp house for breakfast. The same afternoon, I went to a different stand, this one a ladder stand about 500 yards from my morning stand. At about 3:00 PM a different warden approached me and asked for my license and where was my corn pile. I told him I had just been checked by his fellow warden whose name I gave him. He walked all around this stand, and of course spoiled my afternoon hunt with all his scent and talking. The next morning I actually got to hunt without being harassed! But at lunch time as I drove on the dirt road leading to our camp house I was stopped for a third time by the warden who checked me the previous afternoon.I greeted him by name and asked if this was some some type of record- three stops in two days of a law abiding out of state hunter. I had lunch at our camp and headed out on foot to a different box blind overlooking one of our larger green fields- probably 400 yards by 100 yards. Your guessed it- the Warden from my previous morning drove his state vehicle to within 25 yards of my blind and insisted on checking for illegal bait. He walked the entire perimeter of the green field, and of course found nothing. I sarcastically thanked him for ruining three hunts in a two day period, after my driving 825 miles one way to hunt in Alabama. His weak excuse for the continued harassment was.... " we received a report of corn baiting in this area off of a dirt road". I responded that there were "thousands of dirt roads" in that county, and obviously his "report" was faulty. All of my hunting was conducted on private property that our club leases. The rental vehicle that I was driving had Minnesota license plates, and was parked on private property, not public right of ways. I have only two explanations for the continued harassment: the two Wardens knew I was a yankee, and had some anti-yankee bias or just wanted to show the yankee who is boss in that area. The other explanation was that the President of our club is a prominent local Judge, and these Wardens or their supervisor wanted to embarrass the members of his club. I've lost all respect for the Game Wardens in the state of Alabama.

Seems as we already read Bud Meadows other version of that story on the other thread, but at least he took out that the GW was a big black man and changed it to "a very large man" along with none of the lawyers that comprised that club would ever violate the law, LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Seems as we already read Bud Meadows other version of that story on the other thread, but at least he took out that the GW was a big black man and changed it to "a very large man" along with none of the lawyers that comprised that club would ever violate the law, LOL!

Topper what is it you can't get a hard on or what? Why be such an ass your attitude and posts are prime examples of the type of crap most guys dislike about LEOs of any type.

I posted that because there was absolutely no need for him to repost what he had already stated on the initial thread. If he didn't have anything else to add than that, then IMHO he should have just STFU! I guess I'm considered an ass because I tell it like it is and don't like to read all this BS that some of you keep posting to make it appear that one or two bad LEO incidents makes every LEO a prick! You just made a statement as a part of your sentence stating "the type of crap most guys dislike". Speak for yourself, but don't post that kind of BS like you're a clairvoyant and know what everyone else is thinking! I've had several PMs from regular members asking about the OP and why I did what I did in the initial thread and when I replied with FACTS that I have on hand about him it was amazing how they quickly changed their mind on how great a guy he is. If he wants to keep grandstanding and dissing LEOS he better be prepared to get it right back because he's no saint with a record in multiple states over more than a 10 year period of time, some of which didn't involve game law violations, and they weren't when he was a young virgin who has changed his ways like he tries to make out!

Truth be told I really do not know him but I know bad Gws and believe the vast majority of LEO do indeed have ego issues. Also know that some of you think they can do no wrong and should be idolized...thankfully I am not one of them. While you were reading your IMs so was I frankly I got many more than I expected some had very interesting tales...like the woman whom sent one saying she was "felt up" while being frisked by a FEMALE officer.
I know Bud Meadows an have hunted with him I believe him.

There are good ones and bad ones. We had a Game Warden here that was constantly issuing citations for people shooting waterfowl over bait. Turns out there was a video submitted during the trial of this game warden putting out corn in front of some of the public water hunting blinds where he wrote the tickets. He was fired and all of the cases were dismissed.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
Truth be told I really do not know him but I know bad Gws and believe the vast majority of LEO do indeed have ego issues. Also know that some of you think they can do no wrong and should be idolized...thankfully I am not one of them. While you were reading your IMs so was I frankly I got many more than I expected some had very interesting tales...like the woman whom sent one saying she was "felt up" while being frisked by a FEMALE officer.
I know Bud Meadows an have hunted with him I believe him.

You don't know him or his past like I do and yet you continue to be on his side, continue to mock all LEOs and have done so again by saying you believe the vast majority do indeed have ego issues. May I ask how many LEOs you know or have had personal encounters with to come to what I consider are your warped feelings towards ALL LEOs? Also, IMHO that comment you just made including me thinking they can do no wrong and are idolized is one big crock of crap because I don't feel that way and have never come close to saying any such thing! I also didn't say a word about not believing Bud Meadows, but I did say that one of his comments was racist as well as his comment about all the attorneys and the Judge that comprise the club he's in not being law violators was also another crock of crap because that profession has it's fair share of law violators to include alcoholics, liars, cheaters, speeders, and possibly game law violators, etc. just like any other segment of our society.

I deleted my prior post directed at Top Gun not because of anything he said or may say but rather I'd like to believe I have more class than that.

Top what you fail to see is I do not care one way or the other about Aaron, I just do not care about the man. The general topic though I do care about an in my experience most every LEO be they dressed in green or blue have attitude issues an furthermore my grand dad was a LEO as were all but 1 of my uncles...an yes they walked around like a strutting peacocks themselves.

When it comes to LEO’s , they simply have to be held to much higher standard for one simple reason and that is “ They have lots of power over the regular citizens “ and that power can be abused to no end therefore it is extremely important for every citizen to be vigilant
It’s not citizens fault, it is LE force and their extremely protective unions and politicians fault as they are held to different standard then regular citizens

It is what it is and it has to be that way
Tyranny is never far away (it is being just around the corner )

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
Top what you fail to see is I do not care one way or the other about Aaron, I just do not care about the man. The general topic though I do care about an in my experience most every LEO be they dressed in green or blue have attitude issues an furthermore my grand dad was a LEO as were all but 1 of my uncles...an yes they walked around like a strutting peacocks themselves.

That's nice and the only reason I care about him is because of his past and the way he and you are cutting down ALL LEOs on an open Forum! Otherwise he can shut up and go on his merry way because it's very obvious with a string of serious violations why he dislikes LEOs. "In your experience" you say, but then you follow it up by just stating your Grandpa and a couple other relatives were LEOs to give you that perception. IMHO you need to have a lot more negative experiences than just what you stated to have the negative attitude you're continually expressing on these threads to be taken seriously, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
well they may force their way in my house or camp without a warrant but the first six or so are not walking out....a thug is a thug

That now qualifies as the dumbest post on this and the other thread dealing with GWs!!!

Hey Top come kick my door in at midnight with no authority to do so we'll quickly find out whom is "topgun" or not! This is AMERICA not NAZI Germany

Damn Doc, you now hold the record for the two top stupid post. You just gotta love these cyhberspace bad asses.

+1

Some folks simply have an inborn hatred for LEO's of any kind, that is never going to change.

What I find so odd is that some "Hunters" push and harp on a "Higher Code Of Ethical Behavior" to givce hunters a "Better Image", but seem to have no qualms with skirting or attempting to skirt Legalities!

Too bad this discussion has deteriated into
damned near an argument now.
Might be time to just lock it up and end this one.

George

George you will notice a pattern, the same "actors" repeatedly turn these posts into a shit show and insult anyone who disagrees with them, (in a sense internet bullying)then all the adults just quit responding so the jerk feels like he "won".
Look at who got the last word on the last few threads you will see the pattern.

this thread has turned into a real $hit show. I guess I have led a sheltered life as all of my LEO experiences have been positive, even when I was wrong. But I also learned a long time ago, courtesy and respect cost nothing.

quote:

Might be time to just lock it up and end this one.

WHY??? Why not try to find out why some folks continually have problems dealing with LEO's and others don't?

quote:

But I also learned a long time ago, courtesy and respect cost nothing.

Truer words were never spoken, and AR has became a Showcase Example of people losing respect for others.

quote:

and AR has became a Showcase Example of people losing respect for others.

Just a very few........And typically always,the same three or four..........you are one of them old timer.

.

Even tho topgun and I have exchanged a few nicely toned pm's about this.

Reading over the last two pages again it sure feels like he's got a burr under his ass when it comes to LEO's of any kind.

TG: Any chance you wear a badge? OR have?
Just curious mostly.

Over the years I've had a whole LOT of dealings with the law. Many from my doings, some my needs. Only a couple times were shitty doings. One in NM over me telling another trucker going the other way that asked me: "there's a bear ahead a few miles, don't know what he is, didn't look like a trooper" "thanks". Few miles down the road he pulled me over. I'd just gotten married and had the bride along. Still I honestly considered shooting the bastard when it was over just because of his a/h attitude. Only thing he had found was I was 15 min late on my log book entry. Thirty miles to the judge for a lousy $15 fine.

I've paid fines for things I didn't do, but, on the other hand I've gotten by with a whole bunch of other things I should have been locked up over. I figure the way it stands right now, I'm still ahead of the game. Might be because I've mellowed the last ten years or so.

George

quote:

.you are one of them old timer.

J, I simply respond in kind to the way someone has responded to me.

I am no different than anyone else on that aspect.

Disagreeing with another person on a subject is NOT a sign of disrespect, it is just simple honesty.

Since this topic has moved far away from Aaron's situation and moved onto personal LEO issues let me add one more. I used to help with the Hunter Education course when I lived in Dillingham, AK. One of the speakers was always a LEO. In AK they wear both a state trooper and a game warden's hat. Since most of the attendees at the course were young people and mostly native the LEO had a perfect opportunity to educate the attendees and establish himself as someone other than the enemy. This opportunity he wasted by spending his 20 minutes describing in detail every single wildlife violation that would get them a ticket. Consequently the whole community hated him and if not they just considered him an asshole. Attitude!

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Since this topic has moved far away from Aaron's situation and moved onto personal LEO issues let me add one more. I used to help with the Hunter Education course when I lived in Dillingham, AK. One of the speakers was always a LEO. In AK they wear both a state trooper and a game warden's hat. Since most of the attendees at the course were young people and mostly native the LEO had a perfect opportunity to educate the attendees and establish himself as someone other than the enemy. This opportunity he wasted by spending his 20 minutes describing in detail every single wildlife violation that would get them a ticket. Consequently the whole community hated him and if not they just considered him an asshole. Attitude!
Mark

Seems like telling newbies to the sport what could get them in trouble would be a decent topic, but since I wasn't there to know how it was presented there is no way I can agree with or dispute what you stated that would cause them to feel the way you say they did about him.

I also taught Hunter Ed here in Texas, and while I never had a GW attend any of my classes, I did stress the point that in Texas a Game Warden, is consider a STATE LEO!

The problem, as I have PERSONALLY witnessed it, is that some of us SIMPLY do not want to deal with an LEO of any kind, even though we KNOW that we have overstepped the bounds of legality versus of illegality.

Those folks are simply doing their jobs, but just like the members of this site, not all the members but some of them.

You know the laws, or at least you should, so if you are in compliance with those laws, why take an ATTITUDE???????

BECAUSE we want the LEO's to go after those folks breaking the law, instead of doing their ACTUAL JOBS and making sure ALL of us are conducting ourselves in a legal manner!

EXAMPLE: Posted speed limit is 75. 12 people pass you and your running 78, but YOU ARE the one that gets pulled over.

It isn't a case of the LEO being out to get you, odds are he doesn't know you from shit, but YOU ARE thev one that got caught!!!!

We can all agree, it’s a tough job as LEO and in many parts of the country quite under paid
That being said, as LEO, having other people’s lives in your hands, more education would go long way ( not just academy and yelling instructors )

It would be as bad for me to make judgement on hearing one side of s story as it would for them to take the approach you claim they did, would it not??

Why would you take such as this to the internet, it settles nothing..I would in your case be stating my case to their supervisor, with a lawyer at my side perhaps, but probably not with a lawyer.

Just off the top of my head they did have probable cause to investigate, and I will be glad to define "Probably Cause" if I must. you said of course they knew you and that sends up a red flag..

Based on your post I think your were right to stand up for yourself to a point, and simply answer some questions to clear things up. allow them to check the elk and be done with it..you in fact stirred up some emotions and the whole bugger went south from that point..takes two to tango..

LEOs have a job to do, they are human and young LEOS are gung ho, because they believe in what they are doing, a couple of incidents such as you describe will change that as they mature..and if they continue down that road with out cause they will be fired..

Our law enforcement people today have to take too much shit, for what thy do and the price so many pay..Im not quick to jump on this band wagon over..The internet is no place to do business or make complaints, you have the right to take actions for sure, this isn't one of them IMO..

If I upset you then don't put your case before the masses, take it to where it belongs.

I had a similar incident in Georgetown, Colorado many years ago. We were hunting with Tom Tietz, a well known wildlife photographer who had had a previous 'run in' with a female Colorado wildlife officer who had used one of Tom's photographs without his permission. Because they had a hair up their arse about Tom, they harassed us for no other reason. From the moment we arrived in Colorado to hunt elk during the muzzleloader season, to the moment we left, we were constantly followed, harrassed, stopped, checked day and night in camp, on the highway, in our hunting locations, etc, by the game and fish cops. Finally, I decided not to shoot an elk because they were threatening to fine the other hunters for waste of game meat, as they had shot elk, taken them into Denver to be processed and the same game and fish cops went into Denver, weighed their meat and determined that they had not taken enough meat off of the carcasses. (Total BS) They also demanded that my hunting partners take them to the carcasses. They told the game and fish cops to screw themselves, as they were not going to help them in their investigation at all. They were each subsequently fined. We fought them on the charges and they were eventually dismissed. We then filed a complaint against the officers and at least one of them was fired. Our hunting party consisted of a judge, a lawyer, a metro police officer and a business owner-not your typical law breaking group. I know what Aaron is talking about. That soured me on hunting Colorado for anything from that time on.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I had a similar incident in Georgetown, Colorado many years ago. We were hunting with Tom Tietz, a well known wildlife photographer who had had a previous 'run in' with a female Colorado wildlife officer who had used one of...

Is this the same Tom Tietz??

Outfitter Fined

It probably is. We hunted with Tom in 1991. He was upstanding with us, and didn't ask us to do anything illegal, nor did we see him do anything that would have made us question his integrity. He had bitter feelings about the Colorado Fish and Wildlife people. Sad to hear that!

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
It probably is. We hunted with Tom in 1991. He was upstanding with us, and didn't ask us to do anything illegal, nor did we see him do anything that would have made us question his integrity. He had bitter feelings about the Colorado Fish and Wildlife people. Sad to hear that!

I knew him when he first started in the wildlife photo business, probably mid-1980s or so. And as soon as I saw his name in your message, I remembered writing about his conviction in my IN THE FIELD column when it happened. A quick google brought the facts up.

And that is exactly why people should not take the word of one person who comes on a Forum and tries to make a case when we can only hear one side of what supposedly happened. It appears in this case that Tony posted the link to that Tietz pled guilty to a lot of charges and many more were dismissed. I have no idea whether he committed any of what he was charged with, but when person enters a guilty plea on that many charges it certainly doesn't look good for that person and why I made the same kind of posts regarding the OP who started this lengthy thread.

At the risk of starting this whole thing over, I would just like to say that Law Enforcement in general is used to violating the public's Constitutional rights. I think it is because the public lets them or doesn't know or care what their rights are. Watch a tv cop show and see how many times a persons rights are trampled over. I don't think the militarization of the police helps either but that's another subject.

quote:

Originally posted by dwheels:
At the risk of starting this whole thing over, I would just like to say that Law Enforcement in general is used to violating the public's Constitutional rights. I think it is because the public lets them or doesn't know or care what their rights are. Watch a tv cop show and see how many times a persons rights are trampled over. I don't think the militarization of the police helps either but that's another subject.

BS to the first two comments and the cop and GW shows on TV where a camera guy is riding with an officer all suck!

quote:

At the risk of starting this whole thing over, I would just like to say that Law Enforcement in general is used to violating the public's Constitutional rights. I think it is because the public lets them or doesn't know or care what their rights are. Watch a tv cop show and see how many times a persons rights are trampled over. I don't think the militarization of the police helps either but that's another subject.

Just a question, but how much interaction have you Personally had with Game Wardens???

quote:

Originally posted by dwheels:
At the risk of starting this whole thing over, I would just like to say that Law Enforcement in general is used to violating the public's Constitutional rights. I think it is because the public lets them or doesn't know or care what their rights are. Watch a tv cop show and see how many times a persons rights are trampled over. I don't think the militarization of the police helps either but that's another subject.

I see, so you gain your knowledge of LEOs from watching cop shows on TV? So one would imagine that after watching a few showings of Alaskan Bush People or Swamp people, would make you an authority on off grid people or subsistance living.
When did you move to Utah from California?

I would always give law enforcement my name and try and be as civil as possible.

My interaction with law enforcement over last 31 years in the us has been positive and kind of irrelevant. I have got a few driving tickets and had one auto break in report at a local gun show.

I will say the biggest jerks in law enforcement were NYPD.

But a simple act of getting arrested even if all charges are dismissed will get ones mug shot picture in local newspaper and on the web. That to me is tremendous power law enforcement has over professionals. Your local thug, junkie, ect could care less about it. But imagine having to explain your mugshot every time somebody googles you.

Mike