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I would never unarm myself unless asked to, especially on my own property. | |||
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See, there is a difference right there. If I were on my property, and an LEO of any kind told me to drop my firearm, and he appeared the least bit nervous, and had his weapon drawn, I would come loose from my gun as fast as possible. Just as the GW involved in this incident possible had the option of backing down, So Did The Hunter. The hunter had some options also in this deal, he could have dropped his shotgun to the ground and remain seated in his stand. Pointing fingers at the GW for the decisions he made is fine, As Long As NO ONE Forgets, That The Old Man Had Choices Also. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Doc, The point is you don't know if it could have been avoided... What if the hunter after he made the threat began to calm down and the GW had ever reason to believe he had de-escalated the situation because the hunter became compliant and then the hunter suddenly became beligerent and suddenly brought his gun up... D99, Why? Why would you not put your gun down unless asked...from a safety and authority of law stand point (and I am not referring to any nuances of game laws that give land owners rights on their own land) what difference does it make if you are on your own land or not Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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A another very important point to consider for those making judgements either way... How many stories have you ready in your local newspaper where you had first hand knowledge of the actual facts and how many times was the newspaper able to get anything beyond the most basic informatin correct. My experience has been not very often. I used to write press releases for the Sheriff's Department operations I was involved and I can't tell you the number of times the paper made errors regarding basic facts such as who was the victim and who was the suspect where the crime occured versus where the suspect was arrested. About all we know is a GW in NC shot and killed somebody. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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That's not what has been alleged, thus my opinion hasn't changed. If the story I read was the example above, then no one would have shot the old hunter faster than me. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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D99 wrote that he would unarm himself if asked to. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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"About all we know is a GW in NV shot and killed somebody." Yeah, I can see how people get facts confused, especially little details like what state it's in........  xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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For little back ground I have 31+ years in Law Enforcement. county, local, state Yes Iam closeing in on retirement. I never had to shoot anybody close a couple of times by they decided obeying was better then dieing. We just don't have enought facts here. But one things for sure I've become a lot less ramie over the years lots more talking. But for one thing is for sure I find it is very stuip to make threats against people who carry guns they might just belive you. Again not enough facts | |||
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Yeah you may want to look at a keyboard...its called a typo Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I went back and re-read D99's post after reading the above , you are right, excuse the Old Timer's Moment. This is n area where I tend to agree somewhat, just in a different directuion with you. Yes, possibly the GW could have backed down, for whatever reason he did not. The ball there fore was in the 70 year olds court. Regardless of anything legal or illegal he might have been doing on his own land while hunting, challenging any LEO when they are telling you to put down a firearm while they are ion the process of doing their appointed duties, ain't real smart in anyone's book. JMO. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Yeah, you might want to TRY to develop a sense of humor. Otherwise you're in danger of appearing to be WAY too tightly wound...... xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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my problem with game wardens is that they invade my land uninvited, ruin my hunting and have no reason to do so. I do not violate laws and tem 'just checking' me out is no reason for them to be tresspassing. If this same thing occurred on this fellows land, I understand why he was upset. If he was breaking the law-- he deserves what he gets. There was a mention he was illegally baiting. If that was the case, he did not have any rason to complain. | |||
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` Correct, which is the cause of the GW decision. He relinquished control by doing this, which is where I have the problem. Whether they are reliable or not, I think the officer in this case should be made to take a polygraph. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Doc, your bias against GWs is patently clear. so I won't waste my time argueing with you about this incident. But do me one favor, try and research you ideas on how the situation should of been handled. you have stated several times that the GW should of backed off and left a "citation" on his vehicle/whereever. 1. just what imformation do YOU think the GW had about the hunter to put on the "citation'??? 2. It ain't a leaveable citation...it's a bailbond that MUST be signed by the hunter, pledging that he will show up in court to answer a criminal charge. Do YOU think the old man would of just signed the "citation"?? Failure to sign the bail bond means the hunter must be physically taken to jail...prolly wasn't going to agree with that either. troy Birmingham, Al | |||
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I'll guaran-damn-tee you that 76-year-old Clyde Coffey of Caldwell County, North Carolina didn't know your universal truth when it comes to loaded firearms and LEO's. I certainly didn't. Nothing in this year's or any previous years Pennsylvania game laws states it either, or even hints of your 'proper etiquette.' It's a whole lot easier to boss around an unarmed hunter it seems? I wonder if that's the way it went down...Minton convinces Coffey to lay down his shotgun, then whacks him just for spite? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that Minton isn't even the Game Warden, but only a deputy. Kinda like a rent-a-cop at a gun show. If the story is true, why would Minton be dressed in camo? So as not to scare the turkeys? There's a whole lot wrong with the way this saga ended. Ultimately, it is on Minton's conscience. I wonder if he's sleeping real well these nights? | |||
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Hey guys, game wardens don't just go on a 30 acre tract of private property at 7:30 am on opening day of turkey season without a reason. I'd bet my bottom dollar he had wind of a violation (baiting would be my guess) at that location beforehand. In any event, tragic and senseless over a damn turkey. Walt | |||
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...and your inability to comprehend an objective post is patently clear. Where did I infer that I am biased against game wardens? You miss this statement?:
You over-interpreted my post Troy and that is your problem. My position has been restated because there is a dead man involved, and as we know the story, I can see how this could have easily been avoided. Why don't you tell me why the gw couldn't have walked away and called for back up and then reapproach the alleged illegal hunter with one or to more LEOs? Why does this simple task require 'research?' I understand what you are saying about needing info on the hunter to sign the citation, but you are correct in not wasting your time, or mine, in arguing my position because it is not going to change based on what I've read. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I believe this could have easily been accomplished were there 2 or 3 more officers which would have been present had the gw called for backup. Yes I do had there been more wardens present or a sheriff deputy. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Here's some research for you from an 8 year old...ever watch "Cops?" Ever once see an incident where a cop was threatened or shot at and not called for backup? I haven't. It's a no brainer. Perhaps it is different with wardens as they have fewer numbers. But I'm not buying that the warden in question was left with only one option according the information we have. Perhaps the old hunter was a genuine SOB and got what he deserved. We'll never know. Perhaps the 12 year seasoned warden said to himself, "this old bastard just f_cked with the wrong officer, we'll see who's going to get killed when he gets out of the tree." WE'LL NEVER KNOW. I love wardens, the good ones anyway. They keep illegal hunters from tresspassing my place. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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That is the biggest load of crap I've read recently. I'm an American citizen doing a legal activity (hunting) and I've got to disarm myself just because a LEO shows up. That's ridiculous, I'm pretty well read, including my state hunting guide and many others where I have hunted, and I've never heard of such "proper etiquette". Where is the innocent until proven guilty clause? If he's so worried about getting shot, the LEO needs to be in another job. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Anyone know for sure if the dead hunter was using a shotgun or a rifle? The difference would be significant IMO. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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We are free men in this nation, free men don't drop their weapons when hunting on their own land because they are approached by a cop. Only subjects do that. In your own house, there is zero reason to allow yourself to be disarmed when your not breaking the law. I have spent 6 of the 15 years I have been in the military in the combat zone. Let freedom ring! | |||
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In Wyoming I found game wardens to be friendly and good for the system. In Texas I have found a few reasonable game wardens but I also know of 2 game wardens and a judge from east Texas that are flat out crooks and thieves. These low lifes were in Anderson and Houston counties. In general EAST Texas game wardens are out to make money for the local JP and don't care how they do it. Seen em in action. However also generally a game warden won't come on private land unless he is called out to. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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You folks are missing the point... I am talking about a safety issue...and I could care less if is written down anywhere. Go ahead keep the gun in your hands and don't open the action...and since you are all experienced you will know that the one of the first rules of gun safety is never to point your muzzle at anything you don't wish to destroy or kill...and it is reasonable for the GW/LEO to expect for you to know that too So when you keep your gun in your hands with the action closed and inadvertenly begin to turn your body or move your arm and your muzzle starts to swing around or starts to come in the direction of the GW or other LEO and since the GW/LEO now no longer has the luxury of time to "ask" you what your intentions are and wait for your response (especially, if your were the least bit "cantankerous")or to wait and see if you comply with his command to "drop it" or "stop" and therefore decides to stop (what by the objective fatcs is a hostile threat) and decides to put two rounds in your chest... ...you and your family can feel very comforted that nobody wrote wrote it down in the game laws... ...or nobody wrote an article for you ...and every GW/LEO worries about getting shot everytime they approach anybody until they know otherwise. You might find it interesting to research the incidents where LEOs are killed in what it appeared to be the most innocuous circumstances Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I'm not missing your point. It seems like the old, "shoot first, and if 76 year old Clyde lives, ask questions later" routine. Yeah, I get it. | |||
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Onefun, You are missing the point... because everything can appear to be going all just fine and things "can go to shit" in a second and then that LEO/GW has less than a second to make a decision. The current state of law enforcement in the US is about as far away from shoot fist asks question later as it can be... Send me an email and give me your number and I will explain the basis of my opinions...typing it all out here would take forever Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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On 2 occasions in WY and 3 occasions in AL I have been personally checked or with another hunter who was checked by a game warden. Not one time, while carrying my rifle or shotgun did I unload it or open the action. On one of the occasions in AL I was about 21 and a friend of mine and I were in street clothes and on public land in the middle of summer just shooting our new shotguns for fun when we were checked. The GW asked to inspect the weapons and we let him, but I never unloaded it. I've been through both Iowa and Illinois hunter safety education and it was never mentioned in either course that it is proper etiquette to unload a weapon and open the action prior to allowing the GW to inspect the firearm. I have heard of this in the military, however. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Doc, Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, I don't want you to think I'm disputing you. Frankly, your recommendations are cogent. But I don't know that all or even most hunters think that the immediate thing to do when approached by a gw is to unload and open their action. I would think that if this is expected in any way that it would be taught at least in hunter ed courses. When I took the courses I was told that Iowa and Illinois were "award winning" safetey courses. No I don't have my materials, that was many years ago. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Doc, See now I can think of something useful to do with this whole thread... I can write whatever association there is of national Hunter Ed instructors... Of course Gato...will get mad at me...LoL Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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yea, be sure to hit that key just to the left of the "v" next time.  Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I meant to add that if a Warden was approaching me, and he saw me starting to "monkey" with a rifle, he may not like that too well, unless I told him I was unloading. For all he knows, I may be loading it and not unloading. I usually just stand or sit still and let them take control and let me know what needs to be done....similar to my CCW permit I now have here in Ohio. We were told if we get pulled over, the officer will be able to tell if we have the CCW by our plates. We are to roll down the window and put both hands on the wheel and wait for further instructions. BUT, THEY TEACH THAT IN THE COURSE. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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onefunzr2----Where did you get Minton was dressed in camo? Gatogordo----I think the hunter had a shotgun. Doc----The Game Warden probably didn't know the hunters name, where he lived, parked, etc. If the GW let him go to find later: this could be impossible. Just because the hunter says it is his own land doesn't make it so. In NC a Game Warden is able to enter any property suspect of a violation. Round here baiting turkey gets alot of attention. I applaud the NC Game Wardens that I have met. The ones I know do a difficult job very well! God Bless, Louis | |||
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I think the reward programs that are in effect in several States are causeing many false calls on innocent people. someone anxious to collect the reward money might not see exactly what they thought or might have a grudge against a person and call just to cause said person grief. I resent a Warden coming on my property to just check my permitt!!! First of all it ruins that hunt for several hours and secondly he can call in on his computer and find out in minutes if I have secured my tags. I do more for wildlife in my area than all the Conservation people in my county, ie,food plots,Santuaries where no one is allowed to enter,corn for the Turkeys when the ice is on, etc. At one time we had a fantastic Conservation Department but they are going south on their policy about coming on private land and taking over. hawkeye47 | |||
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The above is one of the most basic firearms safety rules, no matter who is going to "inspect" the firearm. | |||
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I have serious doubts about that. Every warden I've met knew his beat, who owned what land, names, addresses, etc. When I was in TX this past Oct hunting pronghorn on private land, I called and spoke with a warden about the adjacent federal land across the fence. What was to be a couple of quick questions turned into an interesting 20 minute conversation. He knew all about the whole region, the private land where we were hunting, all the owners, where they lived etc. Same goes for the 6 or 7 wardens I met in WY and the 4 I met in AL. Perhaps you are right though, but we can only guess. He probably never got the old guy's identity until he was dead on the ground. So, in that case, sure, I can see where he may not have known who it was or if was even his land. I would think that the warden in NC was already familiar with the area, who owned it, had already seen bait on the ground near the tree stand, which I'm guessing was not a hang-on, prior to the opener, and already had plans for opening day to catch someone there. Oh well, it doesn't matter now anyway, the old guy is dead and the only story we'll ever know is the game warden's. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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| One of Us |
I don't think this was Mintons home county; but he probably was somewhat familiar with the country from previous years. NC only has one officer per county in alot of areas. The North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission (NCWRC) moves GW's around alot for opener season dates to help local GW's. Some counties may not have turkey season yet while others get alot of pressure. One GW with an entire county has alot of turf to cover. God Bless, Louis | |||
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Right HERE
 Clyde was known as a teddy bear of a man. RIP | |||
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Wow, looks like a dangerous desperado in that sweater.  If Minton was dressed in camo, I think that changes the story quite a lot. Here you have 76 year old eyes which cant really make out a badge or ID from the top of a tree stand (or maybe even 10 feet away) and 76 year old ears that might not hear the "I'm a CO, put down the shotgun". I think all the victim saw was a trespasser who refused to leave the base of his tree or his land. The question then becomes, what is more "reasonable"...to think that the 76 year old can hear and see well and that your self-identification was perceived properly, or that sitting at the base of your tree is a younger and stronger camo'd out and armed tresspasser who won't leave and just ruined your hunt? Man, this just sucks. | |||
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| one of us |
It sure does. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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