The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting $70,000 Scam involving Blair Worldwide Hunting.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Norton - I hear rumors, just like we all do. Hard to say for sure, without both sides of each story. I've actually talked to one of the members of this family in the past couple days, and tried to give them some additional info that might help. Not sure it will, but hopefully for them it does. | |||
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Yes sir, I understand. | |||
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How smart could it be to scam a group of people who have guns and know how to use them? Just saying... _________________________ Glenn | |||
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I haven't finished reading the thread, but this cracked me up! Red My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them. -Winston Churchill | |||
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What a sad story! The first international hunt that I used an agent for was with Blair several years ago. I didn't make a big deal of it at the time, but there were many, many things that were not as discussed. In spite of that, the hunt was successful. But because of all the little things that weren't right, I had bad vibes and knew I would never use them again. Spend your life wisely. | |||
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It is interesting that no one has come forward to defend them. Even OOA had some people defend them. | |||
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I just checked with my buddy Ron Kreider who also paid in full on a desert sheep hunt last year that never happened. He told me he and another fellow had booked directly with Heatington. They found out the hunt wouldn't happen only a few days before they were to take off. They never recieved a penney back from the paid in full hunt. Doug | |||
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So it sounds to me like this guy has, at the very least, scammed SEVERAL hundred thousand dollars from unsuspecting hunters.....and not a single thing has happened to him? You've got to be kidding me.....this is like a bad dream. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Like the line from a Pace Salsa commercial, "GET A ROPE" Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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With the apparent nature of this guys "business practices" I'm amazed that he hasn't succumbed to lead poisoning already. -+-+- "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama | |||
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I also got hung out to dry by Larry Heathington, on a mule deer hunt, paid in full, that was supposed to take place in Jan. '10. Funny thing, the "missing person" story that someone linked to here and on 24 Hr Campfire, that was reported to have happened in early Sep. '09, was related to me in early Jan. '10 as happening in "real time", and was the reason my hunt was cancelled, ie. "We can't find Larry, he just disappeared on his way to your hunt, and we haven't been able to reach him for the past couple of days". Obviously, no refund. I have since also heard he is terminally ill. Have not kept up with the story until now. Though the cost/loss is significant to me, I realize I would probably be throwing good money after bad to try to chase it legally. Small chance I would ever recover any significant amount, and would be behind folks who lost a whole lot more than I did to get that much. Most people who do this to others usually get what's coming to them in the end, one way or another. Bottom line is, no matter what you do, whether you have a good, bad, or no contract; Google people; check references; book through friends; get a guarantee, WHATEVER- a good con man is going to F%*& you. That's their job, and you never try to beat a man at his own game! Those that have avoided the screwing just haven't played long enough yet. Hate to hear these stories, and wish the best of luck to all who took a screwing. | |||
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Sounds to me like the booking agents selling hunts are committing fraud. We have plenty of lawyers on this site, shithouse and real, so what do the real ones think? | |||
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He needs to be prosecuted. If no one turns him in, he will get away with it. | |||
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Sounds like a lot of people were ripped off. What happened to all the money? | |||
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It would be fun seeing Blair deal with Sheriff Joe.... | |||
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someone needs to turn Doug Chester, Esq, loose on him. HE'S THE MAN!! Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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May seem funny Red-- but I grew up there-- Gato gave you the polite and very sanitized version. DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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This is probably the main reason that I hate paying for a hunt 100% up front. To strangers. I have done it a couple of times only ... much rather pay 40% down and the balance at the end of the hunt ... hand shakes and all ... | |||
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First, the only place Blair should be tried is in a court of law. I have absolutely no problem with information being promulgated about ones personal experience with Blair's operations, but it is a big step from accusing one of unethical business practices to claiming someone committed a crime. I have no idea if Blair is a crook or not, but, after reading about multiple failures of hunts after payments were made, and Blair's responses to the failures, I know I won't go hunting with the folks. That said, I present the following in response to a question above: Don't know about other states, but Georgia law provides: Georgia Code § 16-8-2 16-8-4 (a) states that "A person commits the offense of theft by conversion when, having lawfully obtained funds or other property of another including, but not limited to, leased or rented personal property, under an agreement or other known legal obligation to make a specified application of such funds or a specified disposition of such property, he knowingly converts the funds or property to his own use in violation of the agreement or legal obligation. This Code section applies whether the application or disposition is to be made from the funds or property of another or from the accused´s own funds or property in equivalent amount when the agreement contemplates that the accused may deal with the funds or property of another as his own." I would image that other state have similar laws. It would be relatively easy for a law enforement agency to trace what happened to the $70K (and other folk's payments) and determine where they went. If you read the Georgia law carefully, even if the receiver of funds has a legal right to them and can even co-mingle them with his own monies, he has a duty to distribute the portion designated for a particular purpose (the hunt) to whatever entity that's entitled to it. In other words, did Blair actually pay all the outfitters who didn't produce hunts and only keep an agents fee? If and when, a law enforcement agent questions the guide who was supposed to perform the hunt, I'll bet if he has personal liability, he'd quickly decide to point some fingers and 'fess up as to the actual amount received and what Blair retained, particularly if they could shift the focus of the investigation away from them. Blair claims to have retained only "earned" commissions. Maybe so? Let's say Blair paid himself nothing but commissions as claimed. Any other criminal liability possible? It depends one what Blair knew or agreed to perform with his guides. Georgia law has a theft by deception statute and most states have similar: Georgia law provides that "... a person commits the offense of theft by deception when he obtains property by any deceitful means with the intention of depriving the owner of the property. A person deceives if he intentionally: (1) Creates or confirms another’s impression of an existing fact or past event which is false and which the accused knows or believes to be false; (2) Fails to correct a false impression of an existing fact or past event which he has previously created or confirmed; (3) Prevents another from acquiring information pertinent to the disposition of the property involved; (4) Sells or otherwise transfers or encumbers property intentionally failing to disclose a substantial and valid known lien, adverse claim, or other legal impediment to the enjoyment of the property, whether such impediment is or is not a matter of official record; or (5) Georgia law provides that a person commits the offense of theft by deception when he obtains property by any deceitful means with the intention of depriving the owner of the property. A person deceives if he intentionally: (1) Creates or confirms another’s impression of an existing fact or past event which is false and which the accused knows or believes to be false; (2) Fails to correct a false impression of an existing fact or past event which he has previously created or confirmed (prior failed hunts with the same guide? My question); (3) Prevents another from acquiring information pertinent to the disposition of the property involved; (4) Sells or otherwise transfers or encumbers property intentionally failing to disclose a substantial and valid known lien, adverse claim, or other legal impediment to the enjoyment of the property, whether such impediment is or is not a matter of official record; or (5) Promises performance of services which he does not intend to perform or knows will not be performed. Evidence of failure to perform standing alone shall not be sufficient to authorize a conviction under this subsection. “Deceitful means” and “artful practice” do not, however, include falsity as to matters having no pecuniary significance, or exaggeration by statements unlikely to deceive ordinary persons in the group addressed. Evidence of failure to perform standing alone shall not be sufficient to authorize a conviction under this subsection. “Deceitful means” and “artful practice” do not, however, include falsity as to matters having no pecuniary significance, or exaggeration by statements unlikely to deceive ordinary persons in the group addressed... " Would Blair withstand a careful investigation concerning the sale of hunts he "Promise(d) performance of services which he does not intend to perform or knows will not be performed." He may well, but if such failures to perform were regular, perhaps it would be harder to deny knowledge that performance would not occur, i.e, he "knew". Since there are others who have posted here with similar claims, I point out that most every state will have a "similar transactions" rule that allows evidence of prior acts that show modus operandi, bent of mind, identity, etc. In other words, cumlative evidence of other bad acts can be used to prove the one charged (if certain critera are met). All that said, the real issue is whether the state or states officials where jurisdiction is proper will go to the trouble of investigating (here it is important to note that multiple states may be involved, i.e., where the actors are, where the hunt was intended to be performed, where money changed hands, etc).... or whether the Feds will investigate (who have national jurisdiction when, for instance payments were made by mail or fraud was committed using interstate phone calls, etc.). If I had lost $70K on such a deal and I thought a crime was committed (something I certainly don't know, here), with my lawyer's help (it's good to have lawyer friends who hunt), I'd certainly put together a package of sworn statements of facts/documents/cancelled checks, etc. of what happened to me (and the others so claiming) and send it to the U.S. attorney and D.A. in Blair's home state/county and also in the state/county where the outfitter lives or operates. I'd also give the package to the local F.B.I. None would be just sent.. first I'd have a local law enforement officer make the initial contacts. (That's why it pays to be a friend of your local D.A.) Whether Blair and his minions did anything criminal, I have an opinion, but it is only that. That opinion may change as more facts become known. However, the allegations made here are very, very troubling, though and I can't wait until my next Blair call. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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Judge, Please give the opportunity to apologize and make things right first, if I ever get on your bad side. In speaking with blair, he was aware of the mental breakdown of heathington prior to accepting the second payment, if not the original deposit. He withheld that information as he went laughing to the bank. I hope your comments will help the OP, and perhaps spur recovery efforts against the man who took his money, Jeff Blair. "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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I just googled his name and could not find any negative reference within the first two pages. You would think with all bad press over he would pop up prominently. "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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The problem is the way Accurate Reloading shows up on Google searches; the content of the forum pages doesn't show up. | |||
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I hope someone takes him to court, I would love to hear back from anyone sending him a email and see if he responds(i'm sure he won't) being a booking agent is hard when there are scumbags out there like this that give us bad reps. Thanks! Brian Clark Blue Skies Hunting Adventures www.blueskieshunting.com Email at: info@blueskieshunting.com African Cape Trophy Safaris www.africancapesafaris.com Email at: brian@africancapesafaris.com 1-402-689-2024 | |||
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I just responded to the email that Blair sent out. Just copied and pasted Bill's response. I hope they get 500 responses like that today. "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it". Fred Bear | |||
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+1 ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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You just flunked the test. Please remove me from your email and phone lists at once. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hunting@blairworldwidehunting.com To: CC: skipdonau@aol.com Subject: Re: This week at Blair WorldWide Hunting Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 16:59:01 -0700 Steve We are booking/travelagents, we are not the outfitter. Larry Heathington of Sheep Ltd Has the money the clients have copies of cancelled checks etc. He did not do there hunt, they are suing him. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: hunting@blairworldwidehunting.com Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 4:17 PM Subject: RE: This week at Blair WorldWide Hunting Think that you folks REALLY need to address the charges that have been leveled against you over at Accurate Reloading. Would like to hear your side of the controversy. Steve > From: hunting@blairworldwidehunting.com > To: > Subject: This week at Blair WorldWide Hunting > Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 14:22:38 -0700 > > Elephant Safaris (Botswana & Zimbabwe) 2011 & 2012 - openings available > > Antelope (Wyoming) 3 days 2X1 - $1995.00 / each - Great hunt for Buddies, Families or Corporate Groups > > Red Stag (New Zealand) 5 day hunt 1X1 includes Trophy Fee for 2011 or 2012 - $7300.00 > > Elk (New Mexico) Rifle 5 day hunt 2X1 available October 2011 - $6250.00 > > Ibex - Red Deer - Mouflon Sheep (Spain) available in 2011 & 2012 - $790 per day plus Trophy fees > > Exotics (Texas) - 60+ different species available 2011 - $400 per day plus Trophy fees > > Brown Bear (Russia) escorted 10 day hunts in the Spring of 2012 - Escorted by Jeff Blair > > Still need a Brown Bear? This is it! Limited openings - call Jeff > > Ibex - Mid Asian 1X1 7 days includes 1 Ibex - 2011 & 2012 - $8000.00 > > Marco Polo Sheep / Ibex - hunt them while you can! 10 days 1X1 use Horses 2011 & 2012 > > Canadian Moose / Elk or Mountain Goat combinations (British Columbia) 10 days Fall 2011 > > Mule Deer / Antelope combinations (Wyoming) - $4795.00 > > Please call our offices at 928-779-2232 and speak with a Sales Consultant to get further information on these great hunts. We do accept all forms of payment for deposits. If the hunt that you are looking for is not listed, call or visit our website www.blairworldwide.com and put us to work on one of the other hunts that we offer. Forward this message along to your hunting buddies! > > Join the Blair WorldWide Hunting Disc. Club - get 5% off the first hunt booked with Blair WorldWide Hunting and receive notifications of Disc and Cancellations from our Outfitters, those savings could be 10% to 50% off. Clients have saved $500.00 to as much at $18,000.00 on a hunt. All this for $49.00 for a 2 year subscription. Click here http://www.blairworldwide.com to go to our website, then click on Disc. Club to join today or call 928-779-2232 > > Good Hunting! > The Staff > Thought you-all might find this of interest. Steve | |||
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But posts from The Hunting Report do show up. So if the OP, and a few of his close friends, were to post a report on this site http://www.huntingreport.com/... "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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From the Blair Worldwide Hunting website - http://www.blairworldwide.com/hunting1.htm - sure sounds like some professional liability here... | |||
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I just got the same email, but being the polite person that I am......  ......here is my return message to BWW.
xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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This is the response I received from Jeff Blair. Quote: we are BOOKING AGENTS not a insurance company. We do not own the outfitting companies, anymore than a travel agent owns Delta airlines. I replied: I don't care what you want to call yourself. Take me OFF your email list and consider the correspondence between us OVER. "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it". Fred Bear | |||
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I think I would have put my boot up Blairs ass if I was you. We need to start working with the law makers to make this kind of scam worthy of some real jail time so some big gay con can say to Blair "welcome to the real world of prison" if you know what i mean. | |||
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If they're not an insurance company why do they advertize "there is NO GAMBLE" when you book with us........ Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I sent an email to Jeff Blair and asked for his side of the story. I let him know that if he didnt respond or didnt provide a reasonable explanation for why he hasnt refunded the $10,000+commission for the hunt then I would email a link to this thread to everybody in my address book and ask them to forward it to everybody in their address book. Drummond | |||
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Here is the email that was sent to Blair Worldwide hunting... Jeff, I am concerned about some recent accusations leveled against you on various websites. They are very serious and would like to hear your side of the story before I form an opinion I am quite sure you are aware of the thread over on Accurate Reloading but just in case your not aware here is a link http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3471078051/p/1 There are a number of red flags that pop up but I dont want to talk about Larry Heathington or his issues, although I do find it disturbing that a booking agent would actually take another $35,000 in December of 2009, two months after Heathingtons issues in September of 2009. What disturbs me the most is that you have not refunded your "commission". The people that booked this hunt trusted you to find them a Desert Sheep hunt for their father and based on your recommendation they are out $70,000. Jeff, how are you entitled to a commission? Please help me understand this because from the one side of the story I have heard your just as bad, if not worse, that Larry Heathington. It was also brought up that you added an extra $10,000 to the cost of the hunt to pocket for yourself. That sounds about right as the going rate for sheep is between $45,000 and $60,000, maybe a little less now due to the economy. The ranch where I have guided for Desert Sheep was $60,000 and that was one of the more expensive ranches on the mainland of Sonora. Again, why are you entitled to keep the extra $10,000+commission from this disaster that you booked for this family? The service that was supposed to be provided by both you and Larry Heathington was NEVER provided. In looking at your website there are a few things that stand out to me, you claim that "no detail is left to chance" and that "there are NO gambles when you book with Blair WorldWide Hunting". If this were true it seems like you would be using all of your rescources and experience to not only refund the money that you pocketed but doing everything within your power to assist your clients in getting the rest of their money refunded from Larry Heathington. Why dont you refund the money and then go after Heathington on your own? That is what I would do, even if I knew I would never receive a penny from the man There is a quote that I have remembered over the years and its this; "When a company or an individual compromises one time, whether it's on price or principle, the next compromise is right around the corner". It seems that you have comprimised on both price and principle in this matter. They say everybody has a price, from what I've read so far yours is less that $20,000 Jeff, I look forward to hearing your side of the story, as somebody that has been in this industry for 20 years I am really hoping that you have a valid reason for not refunding the money you have pocketed. If I dont get a response or if there is no reason for not refunding the money to this family I will email a link to the Accurate Reloading thread to everybody in my address book and ask them to email it to everybody in their address book. I look forward to hearing back from you shortly Drummond Lindsey | |||
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Drum ain't playin!!! Dude, why didn't you tell me Dan was fighting last night????? | |||
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anybody else smell blood in the water?  | |||
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Man oh man, I can't wait for the next unsolicited call from Blair. Mike NEVER BOOK A HUNT WITH JEFF BLAIR AT BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING! | |||
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I just received the ad from Blair and sent a response that, let's say, was less than complimentary and asked for an explaination as well to his shady practices. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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I usually don't have much to say on threads like this, and generally tend to read a lot more than post. I guess I was originally drawn to this thread because I was a Blair client once in the past with a not terrible, but not totally satisfactory experience. Two big things really trouble me. Wouldn't a serious booking operation have their "due diligence antennae" out so as to prevent giving this outfitter $35,000 two months after his "disappearance"? Man, that's really not paying attention to the outfitters you are using. And, why on earth not refund your commission! It's pretty arrogant (and telling) to blow this off because you are a booking agent, not an insurance agent. Spend your life wisely. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting $70,000 Scam involving Blair Worldwide Hunting.
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