I shot a 4x3 whitetail this evening with 168 grain Barnes tsx in 308 win thru my Blaser K95. 60-65 yards - the deer did a 180 degree turn, saw him do 2 jumps and a little crashing. I recovered the deer. The deer was looking straight at me quartering slightly right.

There was zero blood trail. These days I now just shoot, put the k95 in the case and chase the deer.

The shot was right on the right shoulder, the exit was on the other side near the left leg. The Barnes exit hole is slight bigger than the entry hole with a little blood.

But for a deer shot Thur there was little bleeding.


Entry


Exit



Dead deer


Barnes kills for sure but leaves little blood to follow.

Mike

If there had been a blood trail it would have been short...??? Sounds like the buck fell close to where shot and was easy to find anyway. If you alway make kills this effectively blood trails would be of hardly any help.
Healthy looking buck by the way. Good shooting and well done.
Animals that die quickly don't leave much of a blood trail.

Nice buck and nice shooting.

I have seen gushing blood exit wounds on animals that died immediately as in drop to the shot with Accubonds. I think this was bc the heart and other occasion lungs were full of blood at moment of impact/penetration by the bullet.

I have wondered too if an animal can die too soon to bleed for a blood trail.

I have never killed anything wit TSX.

Most people who use TSX love them. I think they are great for buffalo.

One cannot argue with bang, flop, dead.

I have an unscientific theory that Barnes type bullets kill differently or wound differently than bonded lead bullets. This being the lead bonded bullet crushes in on itself creates the wide surface with sharp, jagged radius of the jacket and lead pealing back results in more trauma and surface area effected. The Barnes type bullet does not actually crush the petals form by pealing back cutting but acting on less surface area. The Barnes type bullet does not create the mushroom wide meplate/surface resulting is less trauma, more penetration for caliber and weight due to less surface area and more weight retained for momentum and the law of objects in motion.

I am sure folks have paint brush blood trails with Barnes.

considering how fast it died and where the exit wound is.

I am not surprised there was not much of a blood trail.

The higher the shot in the chest cavity the longer it takes to start a good blood trail.

I started using Barnes about 10 years ago changing from Nosler Partition (no problems) just changed partly because monometal. I have found them to be devastating on Elk. As an aside, I have been fortunate to get close in the last few years on Elk like this gentleman was and was concerned that round might not be performing (opening) that close. I ask the Barnes guys at DSC and they said it would still open correctly. I have used TSX,TTSX and LRX both in 270 and 300 WM lately the tipped TTSX and LRX. When you hit them like this gent did, they aren't going anywhere to need a blood trail that would eventually come if they could last that long. There are other great bullets available I just prefer the above.

Nice buck.

I am a big fan of Barnes bullets. I really haven’t paid much attention to blood trails as the animals have always been very close to where they were first shot. Most bullets pass completely through the animal. I have recovered a few bullets in Africa that stopped just under the skin on the far side. These bullets were from 180gr 30-06 Barnes factory ammo. They had formed the picture perfect mushroom.

Good hunting!

My best luck has been driving Barnes TTSX at very fast speeds. My culling load is a 110 grain TTSX at 3500 fps out of the 30/06. Killed hundreds of whitetails with this load. Never caught one and 99% of shots are DRT.

Had very mediocre luck guiding hunters that use standard weight/velocity bullets. Usually very small entrance/exit hole and little blood loss. Almost always a dead animal, but lots of tracking without much of a trail.

I prefer the hunters to use Sierra Gameking/Prohunter, Nosler BT, Core-Lockt, Federal SP, etc... Whitetail deer in Texas are not hard to kill.

Used Barnes TSX out of my .375 for every kill in Africa, except the Elephant. Most were DRT, but I agree that those that needed followed bled very little.

I use Accu-bonds with my 7mmRemMag on thin skinned animals such as deer, pronghorn, and sheep. Again I seem to get DRT results with most shots but much more blood with this bullet.

Cheers
Jim

When you dressed the buck, was he heart shot? I about died laughing at a guest hunter who was worried that his rifle or bullet didn't cause an adequate blood trail. Didn't seem too surprising when the heart looked like hamburger.

We recently shit a oryx, (report below). With a .300 remington ultra magnum with 200 grain tsx and it died with one double lung which went threw and threw. A second follow up shot which was not necessary broke the shoulder bone and we found it on the opposite hide with a perfect weight retention and expansion. But also very little blood.

I meant shot

quote:

Originally posted by steel:
I meant shot

haha, I was thinking "OUCH", they're big!

My oldest daughter just shot a fine 6x6 bull elk on Saturday and there was very little blood....which is the case sometimes with ANY bullet.
She used a 300 RUM with 200 Nosler Accubonds and it entered the last rib and the bullet recovered was behind the shoulder.
Blood trailing is critical for bow kills but not so much for a well placed rifle shot, IMHO.

Zeke

I will make an unpopular comment.

For those who like these bullets, good for you. Personally, I have had nothing but trouble with them. They fail to open (270, 30-06, 7MM, etc). I might as well use a solid. I flatly refuse to use them any longer except at the range.

It happened to me one too many times and that was it. I am done with them.

I did shoot a large wild boar with a .505 gibbs tsx 525 grain. The shot broke his neak Both shoulders and bleed alot. Only took one shot.

Most times you don't need a blood trail shooting whitetail with a rifle IMO.....but what do I know.

quote:

Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
Most times you don't need a blood trail shooting whitetail with a rifle IMO.....but what do I know.

Hunting in August in 95 degree weather in a South Carolina near swaps/thick vegetation and shooting deer in low light. One has 2 hrs to find the deer before the meat is useless. Even if a deer goes 100 yards - having a blood trail to provide any indicators of direction is very useful. Finding deer in the morning is a waste of meat.

Mike

You shot BAMBI????

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
Most times you don't need a blood trail shooting whitetail with a rifle IMO.....but what do I know.

Hunting in August in 95 degree weather in a South Carolina near swaps/thick vegetation and shooting deer in low light. One has 2 hrs to find the deer before the meat is useless. Even if a deer goes 100 yards - having a blood trail to provide any indicators of direction is very useful. Finding deer in the morning is a waste of meat.

Mike

Valid point. Need to make a big hole inside and out for a good blood trail.

I am a fan of Barnes bullets using them to take well over 100 big game animals from massive Australian water buffalo to hippo to tiny grysbok. They perform. After looking at the photo of your deer, I am not surprised that there was little blood as the exit hole seems to be far back behind the diaphragm. I am not sure any bullet would leave a large blood trail considering the angle the bullet traveled. I personally love the quartering shot, but the next time you get a chance at a deer, wait for a broadside shot and then evaluate the blood trail. I think you will have a different experience with the Barnes bullet.

Never saw the need for TTSX’s on deer except I loaded them in a 22 Grendel to ensure penetration. Worked well on one doe I shot through the shoulders, dropped her. 120 lbs dresses. Otherwise I’ve used lead cores bullets. A favorite in a 308 was the 150gr Mega Lapua. Great expansion and killing on deer sized game. If using those Barnes in a 308 I’d at least drop down to 150gr or lighter to keep velocities higher. 165 would be a Goto for elk if I was using a 308.

If I read correctly, shot was 60-65 yrd's. Shoulder-neck junction is the place to be to reduce trailing. Super accurate Blaser, no pun intended should get the job done. 12" further forward would have negated your problem.

I find TSX and TTSX very accurate however I have not seen any DRT with them.
My experience is with animals the size spanning from deer to Elk.
The animals die but no bang flops.
The most recent was a mature bull elk about a week ago with a 210 TTSX out of a 338 Win Mag at 2960 FPS. Hit the elk broadside at 250 yds about 6-8" about strait up the front leg. Took out the heart and broke the off side leg and the bullet ended up under the hide on the far side.
He stood there and turned a bit quartering away. (You could tell he was hit as he humped up at the shot). Took a second shot and hit him about mid ribs and the bullet exited out his chest. He still stood there about 10 seconds and then dropped.
He was herding his harem so perhaps his adrenalin was pumping??
He died...But no bang flop. You never know?
They are accurate and no mechanical bullet failures.
The bullet beneath the hide lost one petal and the other three were folded back flat against the remaining shank. Not a large increase in diameter.
Bullet probably impacted the elk at about 2400 FPS at 250 yds.

EZ

You guys need to be thinking "primary" wound channel vs what you see when you walk up on the downed animal, which is "secondary" wound channel.
Primary is where the damage is done.

Zeke

With the exception of CEBs in my doubles, I use the TSX and TTSX exclusively. Doesn't matter the caliber or animal. TSX!!

Never had anything but stellar performance with them. Lots of bang flops along the way, but most are down within sight of where they were hit.

I suppose all told now I have killed about a hundred deer with Barnes of all flavors, and a few more with the early lead core Barnes. I had issues with accuracy with the lead core Barnes, no issues with the all copper.

Calibers were from .223 to 50 ML. Some of them went down where they stood. The longest run was ~70 yards with most of the heart gone and both lungs well shredded.

Had one with a 53 grain TSX in a .223 that made it a little more than 100 feet and bled but one drop before it went down, through the shoulders with the vessels above the heart gone and the heart loose in the chest. Never lost a deer with any Barnes.

I do not find them more or less prone to good/bad blood trails than cup and core bullets The do penetrate better. I have never stopped one in a deer. They kill about the same as decent cup and core bullets. They definitely can be touchy about seating depth. 3200 FPS or faster is best, although the muzzle loader deer all died very fast and none went anywhere and they were about 1700 FPS with some (Barnes 250 grain T-EZ) at only about 1000 FPS.

Sometimes even very large cut mechanical broadheads through the chest of a deer do not produce a blood trail, not so much as a drop for extended distances. That's life, and there isn't much you can do about it.

I've killed several hundred head with TSXs. They are great if you like following things around or have a desire for your animal to die somewhere else. Otherwise, I'm done with monos for good.

I only have experience with the XLC bullet which predates the TSX and TTSX. I shot an Antelope with my 25-06 and the 100gr Barnes. I was maybe 200-225yds away from him when I hit him in the lungs and took out an artery as well. He only took a few steps and then dropped to the ground. I was pretty impressed with the bullet but I never used them again. They shot about an inch or so from the rifle. The TSX and TTSX both shoot much better my rifles than the original X bullets.
On thin skin animals I think one needs to drop down to the lighter weight for caliber bullets to get dramatic Hydrostatic shock and bang flops. I believe this is what Barnes also recommends.
For thin skinned game like Antelope and Deer I have gone to lighter constructed bullets and have seen more dramatic kills on game.

I've taken TTSXs up to 3950 fps in an attempt at getting a copper bullet to hit like lead. Didn't work, and even if it did, velocity doesn't last.

I just shot a 6x6 in NM this past Sun AM at about 120 yds. I hit him just front of the crease about 1/3 up into shoulder. I used a Barnes 180 TTSX in 300WM. He was broadside and on impact he humped and went away from me going up the mountain with the cows and got about 75 yds up and dipped his shot side and came back down went in small circle on the bench I shot him on and dropped. The bullet was in the off shoulder just under skin. The entry side was devastating and internals were jello. The retrieved bullet had no petals on it and assume they detached and acted like shrapnel. 18 1/2 hr day ,boning,packing, gotta love it or you would never do it again.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I will make an unpopular comment.

For those who like these bullets, good for you. Personally, I have had nothing but trouble with them. They fail to open (270, 30-06, 7MM, etc). I might as well use a solid. I flatly refuse to use them any longer except at the range.

It happened to me one too many times and that was it. I am done with them.

I agree with you 100%. I have not had good luck with them! Not a fan!

We're out of good choices here, no more lead for hunting. This includes 22 RF, unfortunately.
Our legislators should either be required to own firearms and gain knowledge, or maybe be prohibited from same if they vote funny.
I'm in the process of changing over to TTSX for centerfire. So far so good, at the range anyhow.
I dunno...

Shot another eight point this weekend. Very close to the location of the first deer.

I was shooting a 308 Win r8 with a silencero omega 300 suppressor.

Shot him on left shoulder. He was found where near where the last deer was expect he ran an arching loop. There was no blood. But I could see prints from where he ran after the shot in the sandy soil. Where he was shot his back legs dug into the soil leaving 2 horse size prints.

Recovered the bullet - entered in left shoulder and was lodge in the right thigh after going thru the bone.

Barnes kills deer but leaves little blood.

Mike

I have used the Ttsx since 2009, when I was in Namibia on a cull hunt. Took that hunt to test the Ttxs bullets in 289 Rem. shot a total of 19 animals, from Steenbok size, to Oryx. I had my 338/06 along too and used it on 3 animals Oryx with 225 gr bullets. Due to slow speed (2490 fps) it was not impressive and had to shoot all 3 again. They didn't go anywhere, just laid down and waited till I shot them under the ear. But the 2890 Rem with 140s at 2900 fps killed everything , hit right, right now. In 2013 went back with god grandson, and same results. One Wildebeeste was shot, at 200 yds (lasered), and due to stance, animal was hit in the rear, right hip. Bullet went entire length of animal and stopped in left shoulder. dead NOW. that time he was using a 308, with 130gr Ttsx at 3000 fps (joked with him, a short fat 270). Nothing shot with the Ttsx bullets needed a follow up shot. On springbok in 2009 did as hit a bit far back , but humped up and kept moving. 2nd shot right behind the shoulder put it down like lightening.

Forgot, went to E.Cape, in 2011, and took, several animals. used both lead core, and Tsx, 308 again, with 150s and slower speed. It still worked well, and owner of farm was happy to get the left over rounds, about a full box and a half, as he used a 308 and said those Ttsx loading killed better than anything else he'd used.

See I made a typo, and meant to type 280 Remington.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

Recovered the bullet - entered in left shoulder and was lodge in the right thigh after going thru the bone.

How about posting a photo of the recovered bullet?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Bull Sprig:

Valid point. Need to make a big hole inside and out for a good blood trail.

The last deer I shot with a 270 and a 110 TSX at 3170 FPS MV at 150 yards had a big (for the entry side) hole of a coupe inches going in and a fist size hole exiting. I tucked the shot in at the top of the humerus and it took off the top 2/3 of the heart. There was about a fist size amount of tissue, mostly lung and heart on the brush on the off side of where the deer stood. This was the deer that travelled furthest of all I have shot with any version of Barnes bullet. There was a very poor blood trail, something not unexpected when the pump is turned off instantly. She managed 70 yards give or take a little. One of the deer I shot with a Barnes T-EZ 250 grain out of a muzzle loader at ~1700 FPS mv at 50 yards had very comparable shot placement as above. It had a little blood for three jumps, and then not so much as a drop until it fell. Total run on that one was 60 yards or a little more. The hole through that deer was big enough and clear enough that I could easily have put a shovel handle through and used it to carry that deer to the trailer. It was the only deer that I shot with a muzzle loader that did not drop where it stood. I shot it in a cut cornfield and it stayed in the field.

On both of those deer, what was left of the heart was loose in the chest.

I find that it IS a little more common that holes in the hide when using Barnes bullets do tend to be smaller.

I shoot a few deer every year with a bow and find that even the biggest mechanical broadheads cannot guarantee a decent or even any blood trail, and I have only had one I can think of that the arrow did not pass through. Sometimes they just do not put blood on the ground until the end, and then it can and often does look like Bambi was slaughtered there. I have seen them pump themselves dry in < 4 seconds and leave a 4 foot wide blood trail that Ray Charles could follow if he took his shoes off. I have also seen the same shot with the same damage to the same parts leave a poor blood trail I had to mark with toilet paper in order to have enough of a path established to look for the next speck of blood for 70 yards+.

What I have learned over a lifetime of killing deer with bows and guns is that no matter what I think or do, the damned deer still get a whole lot to say about how much work I have to do after the shot before I get dinner out of the deal.

My experience with Barnes has been good.

I usually get an exit, which is what I want for a blood trail. IME, entry only wounds don’t leave much of a blood trail. I’ve shot deer that ran 60-80 yards with 12 Ga slugs that didn’t leave much blood, unless I had an exit wound as well.

The TSX/TTSX usually penetrates well and tends to give good disruption in the animal, unlike solids.

I just got back from hunting pronghorn.

The .26 Nosler did not impress me much. Factory 129 ABLR, the two hits did not even cross the midline of the animal broadside. For a small animal, with what is reportedly an elk gun, it didn’t penetrate nearly enough.

That said, the animal went down within 10 yards of where it was hit, and the bullets turned everything within 6” to goo. No findable pieces of the bullet, and no blood outside the animal until I picked it up, then a small amount of drainage.

You need to decide what criteria you think most important (penetration, wound channel, expansion) and make your choices.

I think most would agree that the TSX isn’t the best expander, that it’s wound cavity in a small animal is not as big as some other choices, but that it’s penetrative ability is first rate.

Ordinarily that gives a good blood trail, but where you hit the animal plays a big role too.

I use the TSX and TTSX quite a bit. I think to get better DRT results you need to drop your bullet weight. My experience is that the faster you drive one of these bullets the better they work.

Mark