Sorry but a .308 Win pitching a 180 anything is not superior to a 7 RM shooting a 160 grn bonded or mono

No if ands or buts about it

Are you offering guided elk hunts?

If that question is directed at me then the answer is nope....maybe in the near future but not now

Would I use a guide that would allow a .308 Win but not a 7 RUM

Doubt I will ever need to make that decision

I have used two elk guides in my life....they required green money....that was the only requirement

Yes, that question was directed at you.

If you were offering elk hunts and had no problem with what your clients used as long as it was legal in the area/state you were doing your hunts in, that would be your business wouldn't it?

You know.....I don't really give a shit either way

If you really didn't, you would not be so vehement toward Larry's attitude, but you are.

Fancy word.....vehement



I still won't lose a second of sleep over this useless thread

Why did you get involved in the first place?

Either you don't believe a business person has the right to set their own rules as to how they do business, or you just have an issue with Larry.

Don't know Larry....doubt we ever meet....don't care how he makes his living.

I shared a campfire with 3 AR members this past week.

These guys are lifelong elk hunters....this thread got quite a laugh

You know at this point, I am not sure Larry isn't trolling here. Yes to all you outfitters, he has the right to do as he pleases. I don't think any of us here begrudge that. But he has never given us any clues as to the circumstances behind his decision. He was quick to take me to task when I said a "bunch of elk" which was a misquote on my part. But nothing else. If it is just the rule he wishes all to know about, we do. Was one of his "guests shooting a 22 LR, or were they just shooting across canyons at 600yds?

Jerry

Hey Jerry - Off the subject a little. Will be down your way hunting Coues deer in a short while. Love the desert this time of year.

Now back on topic. The "main" reasons for my 30.cal rule is 1) My hunter knows prior to booking and hunting not to bring something that does not meet "camp minimum". Then I don't have a surprise if a hunter shows up with a .243 and I have to deal with that situation. Everyone is on the same page prior this way.

2) Most, folks who shoot .30 cals, use 180 grain bullets or bigger. I also see this as a must for Elk hunting. The rub on smaller caliburs in my way of thinking is simply that a 130 grain bullet is not enough for a lot of Elk situations. Sure the "perfect" shot by an experienced hunter can do the trick. But a lot of hunters simply cannot do that.

I felt it necessary to install a minimum for the overall good of my business so picked .30 cal based on personal experience and that of opinions of other outfitter friends. I have never been a BIG operation, usually about 10 hunters per year. I suppose now I will get flak for not being a BIG run the numbers outfitter? I don't have a web site, don't have booths at Shows, and had NO problem booking my 10 or so spots via repeat business or "word of mouth" venues. Hey everything is upfront and straightforward to all potential clients, so don't see any reason folks here want to laugh, joke and make insults to my way of doing things. If YOU dont' like the rules, DON'T sign up. Have a great hunt and use what ever YOU want on your personal Elk Adventure.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser (9.3 x 62)
Win Mod 70 (300 H&H Mag)

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
You know at this point, I am not sure Larry isn't trolling here. Yes to all you outfitters, he has the right to do as he pleases. I don't think any of us here begrudge that. But he has never given us any clues as to the circumstances behind his decision. He was quick to take me to task when I said a "bunch of elk" which was a misquote on my part. But nothing else. If it is just the rule he wishes all to know about, we do. Was one of his "guests shooting a 22 LR, or were they just shooting across canyons at 600yds?

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

you damn well better cater to the client

That does not work anywhere.

Go to a restaurant buck ass naked and see if you get served.

The days of the customer is always right died about 40 years ago.

Guides/outfitters/PH's, it don't matter, they can set any standards they want and there are plenty of people that are more than happy to abide by those standards, those that don't are more than welcome to find someone else to book with.

In fact, Mr. Thinksheknowssomethingbutdon't,
in Texas if a rancher or his agent tells a client that they can not shoot a certain white tail buck while hunting on that property, and the client goes ahead and shoots, the rancher/his agent simply phones the GW and the client will get the crap find out of themselves.

You don't know one damn thing about anything.

Just like resteraunts and other establishments that openly state that they can refuse service to ANYONE, hunting guides can do the same damn thing.

you don't get out much do you?

No, Mr.Knownothing, I get out quite a bit. Gone on guided hunts in Colorado/Wyoming/Idaho/Newfoundland and Nunavut.

On each and every one of them the Outfitter/Guide sent me a list of recommended/required equipment, which included caliber of rifles suggested/required. Depending on those requirements/restrictions, I either booked with that person or I found someone else to book with.

We have a minimum .243 on our buck hunts we do in north Texas, no one ever questions it.

Outfitters/Guides can set whatever rules they choose as long as they are within the legal statutes of the area they are hunting in.

Offering outfitted/guided hunts to the Public is not like shopping Wal-Mart.

If you think it is, you are stupid.

Crazy, I thought I recognized you. Once you started your childish name calling I knew for sure you are the stupid guy by the name of Stick over at the fire. Lotsa mouth, no substance.
As far as getting drawn into one of your wild-eyed, spit-slinging, asinine arguments, I'll pass.

Wrong song beeman, I HAVE NEVER been a member of 24 hour Campfire.

Just Accurate Reloading and some of the regional sites here in Texas.

On ALL of the sites I have EVER been very active on my handle has been either Crazy Horse/Crazyhorse or crazyhorseconsulting, nothing else.

I have had AR members hunt with me in the past, both Javelina in Pecos county Texas and deer and feral hogs here in Archer and Young counties.

I have been using crazyhorseconsulting or Shoe String Safaris since 2000.

So, here we are, you are wrong again.

Where you at beeman, or is that used to be a man?

I have never been on 24Hour campfire, because unless you are a sponsor of that site, you can not post information about hunting opportunities you have available.

On AR you can. Ball is in your court used to be a MAN.

Having a .30 cal minimum is surely Larry's right as a guide, but I think people might be more up to it if it was simply a personal recommendation. If I were to guide hunters on elk I'd surely have some recommendations on cartridges I'd like to see used. However, my main goal would be to get the hunter to a range and see how he/she shoots their rifle. That would tell me more about how hard I'm going to have to work to get the hunter on game, or how much tact I might have to use to talk them out of taking a shot that I don't have any confidence in them making.

In the grand scheme of things Larry probably hasn't hurt his business by having his minimum cartridge requirement. I know if handled properly I wouldn't have a problem being told I couldn't use a sub .30 caliber on a guided hunt, nor would I expect said guide to be upset if I choose not to use their service. The only thing I expect is for a rule like Larry's to be clearly known upfront, then it's my decision to book or not.

So did we figure out the final word on Elk rifles is?

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
So did we figure out the final word on Elk rifles is?

Yep, it's whatever you're most comfortable using.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Crazy, I thought I recognized you. Once you started your childish name calling I knew for sure you are the stupid guy by the name of Stick over at the fire. Lotsa mouth, no substance.
As far as getting drawn into one of your wild-eyed, spit-slinging, asinine arguments, I'll pass.

Aw come on....CHC is nothing like Big Stick/Boxer/et al.

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Crazy, I thought I recognized you. Once you started your childish name calling I knew for sure you are the stupid guy by the name of Stick over at the fire. Lotsa mouth, no substance.
As far as getting drawn into one of your wild-eyed, spit-slinging, asinine arguments, I'll pass.

Aw come on....CHC is nothing like Big Stick/Boxer/et al.

+100

BigStick is far more intelligent.....apples to oranges

quote:

Yep, it's whatever you're most comfortable using.

Plus 1 on that.

Larry: Good luck on your Coues deer hunt. I enjoy hunting them also. Usually around Senoita or Fort Huachuca. I have this plan: I know where the deer are, and I have seen a couple real good ones, but as you know, they "melt" into their surroundings, problem is, if you shoot a button buck or spike, you have the best venison one can get anywhere. But I really want a "mounter" this time, sooo, I am going to sit on the side of a hill about 600yds from the spot I catch them crossing, and watch till I can take the one I want. Conditions and wind allowing. Good luck to you and all the other guys here.

Jerry

Thanks Jerry for the good words. When I said down your way, my hunt is on the New Mexico side down your way. Maybe we can hook up somewhere in the future and sit a hillside together? Really enjoy sitting on the hillsides of the Desert this time of year and watching for these awesome little critters. Good luck to you as well.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser (270 Win this time)
SCI(International)Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Larry: Good luck on your Coues deer hunt. I enjoy hunting them also. Usually around Senoita or Fort Huachuca. I have this plan: I know where the deer are, and I have seen a couple real good ones, but as you know, they "melt" into their surroundings, problem is, if you shoot a button buck or spike, you have the best venison one can get anywhere. But I really want a "mounter" this time, sooo, I am going to sit on the side of a hill about 600yds from the spot I catch them crossing, and watch till I can take the one I want. Conditions and wind allowing. Good luck to you and all the other guys here.

Jerry

I shot a cow last week with a girl's rifle. 7mm-08 and 120 gr TTSX at about 2950 fps. She made it about 25-30 yards after the bullet pierced both lungs. Having ready this thread, I'm surprised she died! In the end, I dropped off nearly 200 lbs of quartered meat at the processor yesterday.

Yea for Graybird. Good eating in the near future. Funny thing here, at least for me. Crazy said final word on elk rifles, but I can't put my finger on "The Best Elk Rifle". Not trying to stir the pot for Crazy, but I can't choose one. I built a 35 Whelen to be my "Elk Rifle", but I seem to shoot elk with everything but the Whelen. I guess if I had to reach in the safe, and they said only one to hunt with, but you can use any ammo, it'd be the 270 Winchester hands down.

To change the subject, I just bought a bottle of "Duke" bourbon. Normally I am a scotch drinker. but I like most brown booze. Since I am an old, whatever fart, goat, geezer of 69, I love John Wayne. Had to try it. If you drink your liquor as I do, straight, I think you'll enjoy it. Remember The Duke, was one of our biggest supporters for hunting and shooting. Enjoy. Also, I have enjoyed this thread.

Jerry

The title of the poll was just to get as many folks giving their opinions as possible. I think if you will look, more than once I stated that as long as a person is comfortable and confident with what they are using, it is their business. I bought my .35 Whelen to be "My" elk rifle, and I have killed more elk with it than any of my other rifles.

As far as I am concerned there is no "Final" word on any particular caliber of rifle hunting anything, as long as it is legal for the game being hunted.

As I also stated, I have seen elk killed with a .243/.270/.308/.30-06 etc.

I have never said that any one caliber was the Be All/End All for hunting anything.

If nothing else, even though more people voted that they had used the larger calibers to kill elk, plenty of folks said that they had used the smaller calibers.

If a person wants to use one of the larger calibers that is fine, but it is not absolutely necessary.

This worked, Dad's .300 Savage with the last of some '50s vintage Silvertips. Nostalgia hunt of sorts.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
So did we figure out the final word on Elk rifles is?

The final word is --- shoot what you like!!!

Finally!

quote:

The final word is --- shoot what you like!!!

And that is the final word. As long as the shooter is satisfied and the caliber is legal, Go For It.