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| One of Us |
I shot maral's , the same deer. 3 with a 9,3x64 1 with a 300 RUM 2 with a 340WM The 340WM and a bullet of 250gr is imho the best , especially if you have to shoot at long range . | |||
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If it is so silly, why did you comment? Americans, especially those of us over about 40 or so grew up reading the various hunting magazines available at the time. Elmer Keith and Jack O'Connor were the two main "Hunting" gun writers of that era. Col. Whelen/Warren Page et al did write about hunting bur their genre also included target shooting/ballistics/cartridge development. Elmer and Jack wrote about actual field experience on game with various firearms. When it comes to hunting, from my experiences/observations Americans fall roughly in to 4 categories: 1. Those that believe along the lines of Elmer Keith when selecting a hunting rifle caliber. 2. Those that believe along the lines of Jack O'Connor when selecting a hunting rifle caliber. 3. Those that look around and find what works best for them and then sticks with it. 4. Those that are constantly look for the "Next Big Thing", and may never really kill enough game, elk or otherwise, to discern any realistic measure in differences between performance levels of the various calibers. I don't see that finding out how other people's preferences on what caliber they use on particular game, in this case elk, differ or coincide with my own preferences is either bad or silly. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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It's a silly poll (flawed would be a better word) because your parameters ignore a large number of elk hunters... those of us that have taken our elk with a variety of calibers below and above 30 cal., something your "poll" doesn't take into account. So while not necessarily "silly" it's certainly flawed (though an argument could be made it's silly too  ). And please note, I didn't participate in your poll because, like most I know, I don't fall into your two very black and white categories... your poll would have been better had you asked 'most of your elk' not 'all of your elk"... pretty simple really.  | |||
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Nothing anyone ever does makes everyone happy! Really simple concept, it is a fundamental fact of life. No matter how I worded the poll, someone, in act several someone's would have set back and pointed out the "Faults" with it. How about folks that find fault try a wonderful concept, start your own poll and worded the way THEY think is perfect, then set back and see what happens. No one was forced to participate in the poll or make comments, that is their choice as the way it should be. However, 72 folks did participate, 30 voting for .30-06 and under and 42 for .300 magnum or larger. That shows that so far the majority of those participating use larger rifles. Not counting my comments, there have been 36 other comments/replies by various people, including the two you have made and there have been 1669 views. As Allan DeGroot's signature line states: If I have someone think, My job is done. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I retract the flawed comment... given your lack of logic, the poll is just silly. | |||
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Answering the poll is something akin to answering the question "When did you stop beating your wife?" There is no simple way to answer which is not readily misconstrued. | |||
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People will generally kill game with whatever rifle they have, not necessarily what they think would be better or best. Put another way before 1925 shooters have much less options in terms of cartridges that they could use than today. Santa Claus | |||
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Please explain that in English, since there is NO WAY to discern how ANYONE voted! Can you show me or anyone else, how anyone in particular voted? NO, since voting in these polls is totally anonymous, unless an individual makes a comment or response about how they voted. No one is verifying who did or did not vote or how they voted, so how did you come up with the idea anyone can discern how anyone else voted or if they even voted??? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I'd say most people on this forum have quite a selection to choose from. I have a choice of .308, .375H&H and .416B&M for Elk. I am off to Wyoming tomorrow and taking .416B&M using 225gr tipped CEB Raptors at 2950fps. | |||
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A 264 Win Mag accounted for 11. The rest I have taken with a bow. | |||
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Shot 15-18 cows with a 7Rem Mag, Two bulls with a 300 H&H, One with a 338Fed, One with a 300WM, One with a 280, One with a 270. Tomorrow I leave with a 7x65R. Mac | |||
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Over the last 63yrs of hunting I have been a large caliber "enthusiast". The last elk fell to a 9.3x62M launching a 286gr PRVI bullet. @ 2300fps Lasered range was 107yds. Double lung shot. Stumbled two steps and fell. Butcher commented how little meat was damaged. All elk, moose and caribou have been shot within 200 yards. Carl L. | |||
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.264 to .375 140 grn to 300 grn 2300 fps-3000 fps 1-300 yards they all work Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have shot and killed 3 elk with .30-06 180 grain Remington corelokts. The first two dropped with the first shot. The last, 8 days ago, was a running shot. I took three shots before the cow, quartering towards me, disappeared beyond a screen of trees. When I recovered the cow, she had at least two shots well placed -- forwards on the shoulder towards me and hence angling back to theoretically exit behind the shoulder away from me. Either shot looks to me like it would have killed that cow. Lots of blood on the ground the last 10 yards to where the cow dropped. I say at least 2 shots well placed, because one of the entrance wounds is a lot bigger than the other -- could be two bullets went into this same location. By the way, these entrance wounds are much bigger than 0.3" diameter. An ex-policeman I showed pictures to said that when hit by bullets, bone explodes outwards. Thus, these larger than caliber "entrance" wounds probably resulted from shoulder bone exploding outwards. Thus, it is not resolvable whether two bullets went into the larger wound. It is academic in any case. I'm happy if I can land 2 well placed shots out of three on a running elk at about 80 yards. | |||
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+1  "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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I killed 5 with a .280 Rem and 4 with a .300 Win Mag. I voted for both. | |||
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I have killed elk with a 300 WBY Mag, a 340 WBY Mag, and a 300 Win Mag. My nthoughts on an elk rifle are this... I do not live in Elk country, so when I hunt elk it is a long distance, fairly expensive hunt. So I always use an accurate, fairly powerful rifle, and scope, capable of a longish shot. I have shot elk as close as 90 yards to as far as 330 and 450 yards... All others have been between 200 and 300 yards. I tend to think the perfect all round elk rifle starts at the 300 Mags, and goes to the 375 H&H... Elk country can be fairly steep and rough, so a lightish rifle is a good pick. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I think Brad hit the nail on the head in all of ten words. Succinctly put, "the elk hunter makes the elk rifle, not the reverse." Being too young to only know about them, my presumption is that Elmer and O'connor would have both agreed with this sentiment, but possibly only in private.  | |||
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My 8x57 mauser has take one 5x6 elk and 7x8 red deer. Both were close shots. My preferred rifle going forward is my Mauser 300 Weatherby with a 200 gr Aframe If I had to have a dedicated elk rifle and that's it, I think a 220 gr 8mm Rem Mag or a 250 gr 340 Weatherby would be ideal. Right now, though, since I don't have my 300 Weatherby loads dialed in, I'd use my 375 H&H barrel on my M03. For my wife, I'd have her use her 308 Win with 165 gr Aframes. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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Boy you can sure see the nay sayers and pooh poohers here. It's ok crazy, I believe most of us liked your idea. As one fellow said, if my bullet moves 50 fps less than some other guy's mine sucks and his is great. Must be some kind of ego thing. Thanks for the effort. Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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2569 views, 60 comments, and it keeps rising back to the top. It is making people think and that was my goal. There is NO perfect be all/do all/last word Elk or any other type of game rifle. To me, this world and this forum would be hellaciously boring if hunters did not have many calibers/cartridges/rifles to choose from. As the old TV show stated so eloquently, Different Strokes For Different Folks. As long as the individual hunter works within the limitations of the caliber they choose and their own individual abilities, everything is cool.  Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I have taken Elk with three .300 Win mags, a .340 Wby, a .338 Lapua and a .270 WSM. I prefer big bullets going fast making two holes. My group of 15 hunters will be packing 8 .300 Win Mags, all Model 70 Winchesters with Boss barrels. Bullets ranging from 180 grains to 200 grains, most 180 grain Nosler Partitions or Northforks loaded to 3100 fps. The remainder of the group pack 7mm"s of some type and a .308 Norma. This has worked for us in Colorado since 1992 with many Bulls and a few Cows taken. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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I started elk hunting in 1992 with an outfitter/guide operating out of Collbran in Unit 421. Been hunting with him ever since, the last time was a late season cow hunt last December. I have killed my elk with my .35 Whelen/.300 Weatherby Mag./.340 Weatherby Mag. and my .375 H&H. Last December's cow was killed with one high shoulder shot at 185 yards or so with a 168 grain Barnes TSX out of my .300 Weatherby. Dropped in its tracks, which was unusual for me as elk, bulls or cows rattle me and I have only made two one shot kills out of the eight or nine I have killed. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I doubt that | |||
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Well Sir, you are WRONG. Have a good life. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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' You title an ill-conceived, and incomplete poll "the final word on elk rifles" then claim it was done to "make people think." Just what sort of thinking was the goal? Perhaps it was a poll designed as a platform to tell use all about what YOU think constitutes an elk rifle? Your own cartridge choices and the wording of the poll are certainly a window to your thinking. Again, the poll left out what is likely the majority of elk hunters, ie those of us that have used cartridges above and below 30 cal for our elk hunting. So the goal was "thinking"?... hmmm. Only pattern I see here is those who don't live in and around elk, and aren't able to hunt them year in and year out, tend to use larger cartridges. Not that there's anything wrong with that... | |||
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Brad Right you are. My great uncles in Montana never felt undergunned for elk or deer with a 32 Special and a 30/40 Krag. I don't know anybody from PA that uses less than a 300 magnum of some sort. | |||
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You really need to stop and realize you are the only person taking this seriously. Elmer Keith, definitely lived in an area full of elk and look at his choices. The whole discussion was designed to point out that whole concept of elk hunting or for that matter hunting any animal and the choice of caliber/cartridge to use is Personal and the individual hunter is going to choose and use what ever works the best for them. I have seen elk killed with a .243 and elk killed with a .375 H&H. It all boils down to the individual hunter being able to work within their personal limitations and those of the cartridge of their choice. If a hunter, any hunter can accurately place their shots, whatever cartridge they choose that is LEGAL will do what they are asking it to do. You need to loosen your collar before you stroke out over this. Since you find so much wrong with it, why did you even bother getting involved? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I left out a couple of rifles I treasure as Elk getters. I have also taken Elk with two different .358 STA's and consider them at the top of my Elk rifle list. Either 250 or 270 grain Northforks at 2950 fps are my go to loads. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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albeit choices made when: - bullet quality/construction was inferior to todays. - and based on the fact that he intentionally fired through obstructions. Now with todays bullets and responsibly avoiding the silly idea of intentionally firing through obstructions, people seem get the job done quite well without Elmers somewhat obsolete techniques & advice.
That is proven from private letters between them, but some people remain stubbornly polarised by old published Elmer(vs)O'Connor articles of yesteryear. I spoke with a fellow hunter at SCI(RiflesInc. stand),he was delighted in the way his RI-140gnX-6.5/284 penetrated & dropped his big Eland. | |||
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Trax - Do you have to be an a%$ hole on every thread you post on? Do you even hunt or own a firearm or do you just like being a troll? You have NEVER added anything positive or constructive that I can recall. Larry Sellers SCI(International)Life Member R8 Blaser
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Mike, yeah... I live in Montana. One ranch I worked on had as many as 4,800 elk on it. I've seen enough elk, and killed enough to know any reasonable cartridge works. Tomorrow I'll be backpacking into National Forest Wilderness Area for the Montana rifle season opener on Saturday... I'll have a puny little 7-08 Kimber MT in tow loaded with 150 Ballistic Tips. The area has tremendous quality bulls, and I have no doubt any bull will succumb to that combo. All the best to you and yours, and hope your season is a good one! Brad PS, here's a middlin 10.5 year old bull from that same area that fell to my 270 Win... it just can't happen without an uber-magnum!  | |||
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| one of us |
I have the answer to the poll. My rifle is the best elk rifle as I have killed elk with it and they fell down dead. there is the final answer and nobody can change my mind. plus Randall you have seen me shoot stuff with it and they fell down dead also.  When there's lead in the air, there's hope!!!! | |||
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Firstly,... I don't support peoples egos or ignorance, or readily swallow their BS,hypocrisy or contradictions. Secondly,.. some people no doubt would see the honesty & straightforward positives in my previous post, but you are free to disagree.... ..and if you want to use Elmers era std. of bullets and his shooting through bullet deflecting brush technique, don't fret, cause nobody here is stopping you doing so. But that don't change the fact that in this day and age,capable people can very effectively put an Elands feet in the air [let alone an elks] with a modern loaded 6.5/284 | |||
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If it is LEGAL in the area you hunt to shoot elk with a .22 LR, Go For It. I know a few folks that don't live in Elk country that regularly hunt and kill elk with .270's, .308's and the .30-06. Show me at ANY POINT where I said those calibers would not effectively/efficiently kill elk with properly placed shots! You can not do it, because I never said it. When did it become law that a hunter could not use the caliber/cartridge of their choice for hunting whatever it is they choose to hunt? Care to answer that? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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At the risk of having to change my name to "Captain Obvious", I submit that CHC occupies the lower left corner of the Bell Curve and nobody should follow his advice on this or almost anything else he has stated or will state. | |||
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Yes I have Bruce and it is the results I have personally seen on our hunts together that has me wanting to get a .7mm-08. Some of these Nimrods/Barney's/Elmer's, simply can not understand that the whole issue is personal choice. The deal is, Elmer Keith and Jack O'Connor waged a war over what was an effective elk rifle. Elmer believed in the Big Bores while Jack was a proponent of smaller calibers. In the long run, both were right, simply depending on the shots either was willing to take. I could really care less if someone has killed 1000 head of elk with a .22 Hornet, it Would NOT be my first choice as an elk rifle. If I choose to hunt elk with a .35 Whelen, what is the problem? I am paying for the hunt, I am paying for the license/tag and I will be using a gun that is considered LEGAL in Colorado, so what is the problem? I could use a .243 if I choose to or a .257 Robert's or a .7mm-08 or a .25-06 and the list goes on, and with a PROPERLY PLACED SHOT from any of these and many other calibers, the result is a dead elk. Why is it I do not have a problem with that yet some other folks have their knickers in a bunch because I prefer to use something larger. This is a good example of WHY we will lose hunting, because some of us simply can not understand that the choice of what we use to hunt with is PERSONAL, NOT a group decision. Bruce me and you have spent plenty of time together chasing stuff and I hope we get to spend more time doing that. The issue some folks have made this into revolves around some imaginary concept that I am saying one caliber or group of calibers is better than another, while all I am getting at is that what ever works best for the individual, is the best caliber For THEM. And I have no problem with that. I have seen several elk killed with calibers from the .30-06 and smaller, to know that in the hands of a real hunter that knows what they are doing, they are effective. The fact that some people prefer to use something slightly more powerful, does not necessarily mean that they feel using something bigger, excuses them from accurately placing their shots. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I just received my order of 150g .277 caliber Accubond LR bullets. I'm hoping they will be the ultimate 270 Win Elk bullet replacing our 150g Partition loads. Now to see if I can coax 3000 fps using them out of our 22" barreled 270s ...  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I think they will work great. What some folks seem to be unable to understand because of mental deficiency is that the Final Word On Elk Rifles lies completely within the ability of the hunter. Why some Nimrods feel that just because a question, a hypothetical one at that, does not include their FAVORITE choice, ANYONE is saying that their choice won't work, is an idiot. I know folks that have NEVER lived in Elk country that have killed plenty of elk with a .308. What happened to PERSONAL choice?????? And some of these simple minded bastards believe hunting can be saved, yet simply can not buy into the concept that EACH OF US have the prerogative to choose what ever caliber works best for us. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Brad is correct: It is a silly question. Come on, anyone that has really hunted elk, knows that there are really two factors that matter: Shot placement and the bullet used. All of these calibers are essentially the same. Sure, as gun nuts, we like to indulge in debating the minuscule differences, but I think the bottom line is that caliber makes little difference. | |||
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