Everyone has whined/cried/pissed/moaned and praised their choice of caliber to kill elk with, to hell with what Elmer or Jack said.

Question:
Honestly, for those of us that have killed more than ONE elk in our life what have YOU used to kill any or your most elk with.

Choices:
All of the elk I have killed have been with the .30-06 or smaller?
All of the elk I have killed have been with a .300 Magnum or larger?

 

I don't really know how to answer since I used a 35 Whelen which is bigger than a 30-06 and I would figure less than a 300 win mag. Exactly what do you mean by your selections?

Where do the Super 7s fit on your poll?

I've killed elk with a .270,.270 Weatherby, .308, 30-06,300WM and a 375H&H.

So your poll doesn't work for me.

25.06, .270(5), 300WSM.

I am using .270 this year

Should I average?

I think a more interesting question would be for those that have hunted elk successfully in the past, what would you use this year. (rifle only)

1) Limited entry or trophy possibility

2) meat hunt (cow or spike)

If I had my choice it would be
Hunt 1) 300WSM
Hunt 2) 270

If I could only use one rifle, 300 WSM. Rather simple choice for me.

Hunt 1: 300 Wby or 338 win mag.
Hunt 2: 257 Weatherby or 9.3x62.

I like variety.

What value is there in the opinion of hunters who have killed 1 elk let alone 10 on which cartridge is best. Might as well take my advise on the best Bongo caliber because I shot one. Just another argument starting thread.

What if I've killed 100 elk with a .30 Gibbs, which is larger than a .30-06 and smaller than a ".300 Magnum" (depending on which .300 Magnum you're speaking of)?

What if I've killed two elk, one each with a .243 and a .460 WBY?

Or maybe I've killed "all" of my elk with a 7.62x39, which has a smaller case but a larger bullet than a .30-06?

Your question, with only two very limited choices, cannot be accurately answered by many elk hunters and results no useful information.

This has NOTHING to do with which or If any caliber is best.

I probably should have made the questions read .308 and smaller, larger than .308.

As for the .7mm-.284 diameter calibers, since they are under .308 diameter.

As for folks that have never killed an elk with a modern rifle and have only used muzzle loaders or bows, I simply did not include those because they were not part of the original pissing match concerning Elmer Keith's opinion on what he considered the best or proper calibers for hunting elk.

As for my comment about excluding people that have only killed one elk, I simply feel that they do not have enough experience on the subject to differentiate the pluses or minuses of one caliber over another.

A hunter that has killed several elk over several seasons using various calibers will be or should be able to judge the performance of different calibers and probably will have settled on one or maybe 2 calibers/cartridges that they regularly hunt elk with.

Also, a more experienced hunter will often have hunted with or around other hunters and seen the calibers those people used and will have formed an opinion based on their perceptions concerning the performance those hunters obtained with their guns.

That is how many hunters make their decisions on scopes/rifles/bullet selection etc. etc. etc., by watching what other hunters use and discussing how those people feel about the performance they are getting from a certain caliber or bullet or style of knife or brand of scope.

My choice of the dividing line between the .30-06 and the .308 magnums was made due to the fact that most folks use that as a dividing point, listing them as the .30-06 and smaller vs the .30 cal. magnums and larger.

So far, at least 13 people figured out the jist of the poll. Anyone can set forth any type of hypothetical scenario they choose, but in real time-real life situations what gun is your "Go To" gun for the majority of your elk hunting under any/all circumstances?

If all you have ever used and you have killed a thousand head of elk, has been a .22-250, then you are in the .30-06 and smaller category.

If you have only killed 53 head of elk, all with a .32 Win. Special, then your in the .30 mag and larger category.

But Elemer has been gone more than 30 years!

In his days the best hunting bullet had a residual weight of 60%. Meaning, you had to start with 250 grs to end up with 150 grs. Today our bullets have improoved dramatically, loosing only 1-2 % of original weight. I can not believe we are still in this mess. Like saying that 10,75x68 is not good enough, according to Taylor. Taylor never tried it with todays bullets and powders.

I think that a modern .270 Win with a 150 grs Barnes X at 2900fps
would have impressed Keith A LOT.

It is one of those never ending "Dead Horse" issues that continually resurrects themselves.

Were Elmer and O'Connor alive today, they would still find reasons to dislike each other, clash of personalities and beliefs.

Look how much animosity runs rampant on AR simply because none of us seem to be able to allow other individuals to have their own opinions/beliefs on any subject.

People in this days world have lost respect for the concept of the Individual, everyone seems to feel that everyone should take sides on every issue that arises.

None of that has anything to do with Elk rifles however.

The advances in technology such as bullet design and construction has made a big difference in the hunting field.

To hell with what crazy says.

My elk have been killed with rifles on both sides of the poll.

35 Whelen,45-70 and 7mm Rem.mag ... I'd use a .270 Win. if I had one...

My father has killed about 20 elk, 2 bison and 7 moose. All of them have been taken by calibers between 243 and 35 Whelen.

He's never been a magnum hunter. And never shot anything with a magnum cartridge.

Even he still thinks that a bigger bullet is better than a smaller one.

I have taken 6 elk size animals in Africa, all with a 308. A military career had me overseas for most hunting seasons.

If l was going elk hunting this year I would use my custom Rem 700 358 Norma mag and have my 7 mm Rem mag along as a backup.

The work "All" prevents me from answering your poll as I've killed elk with both of your choices.

I killed my first elk with a .30-40 Krag,
8 with a .30-06,
1 with an arrow (I guess he doesn't count),
1 with a .257 Ackley,
21 with a .30 Gibbs,
1 with a 7 mm Rem mag,
and 2 with a .300 Weatherby.

All were killed on DIY hunts in Colorado and Montana. Most were on public land and most were solo hunts.

I have a Montana elk tag for this year, but I won't be hunting them because my freezers are still full of meat from my last two bulls.

If I would hunt elk this year I would use my .300 Weatherby, unless it would be raining, then I would use my 7 mm Rem mag.

Myself, I don't see what there is to argue about. I think Bent hit the nail on the head. Would I hunt a trophy elk with my 6.5 Creedmoor 18+" barrel. Yup. , in a heart beat. Would I hunt with my 9.3×64 Brenneke, Yup just as quickly. Would I hunt one with a 223 loaded with TSX bullets, yup but I would only take certain shots as I would with the 6.5 ., he 9.3 just makes some things simpler. I'm clueless as to why there's an argument at all. Keith and O'Connor were paid money to keep this argument going. What is anyone else's reason.

If I were fortunate to be going to a super limited trophy area like White Mountain, I would reach for my 340 Weatherby. IMHO it is ideal elk medicine. The handful of elk I've shot have all been with a 300 Win. I've used both the 300 and the 340 a lot in Africa and the 340 with 250 grain bullets is a hammer. Thus, since I have one it would be my choice for the hunt of a lifetime elk.

quote:

Keith and O'Connor were paid money to keep this argument going. What is anyone else's reason.

Because we are all bored silly with the state of affairs in the real world and have nothing better to do, and our Mommies are not hear to make us behave.

We argue because we are HUNTERS and as such are both passionate and opinionated all to hell about how we feel about any and all aspects related to hunting.

If all of us could just realize that as long as WE, as individuals are content with what works for us as Individuals, there would be no real use for sites like this one.

But as a group, we can not do that! We want everyone to believe as we do. Does not matter if someone has vastly more experience or is a beginner, We Want Them To Understand That The Way WE Do Things Is The Only Correct Way.

I like the bigger guns, because I liked Elmer's writing better than I did O'Connor. In reality though over the years, I have learned and witnessed on numerous occasions, that less experienced people and the larger calibers are not a real good combination.

The bigger guns do offer advantages, but the hunter using them has to know when those advantages have to be brought in to play, regardless of the game being shot.

Well, in about 11 days I will be using a .416 B&M shooting 225gr CEB tipped Raptor at 2950fps. Did real well with Zebras last month, should do well with Elk.

every elk I have ever killed has been done with the X57 or smaller case size.
no bullet fancier than a hornady interlock has ever been used either.
but I live in Idaho and I hear northern mountain type elk are far smaller than the others.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Keith and O'Connor were paid money to keep this argument going. What is anyone else's reason.

Because we are all bored silly with the state of affairs in the real world and have nothing better to do, and our Mommies are not hear to make us behave.

We argue because we are HUNTERS and as such are both passionate and opinionated all to hell about how we feel about any and all aspects related to hunting.

If all of us could just realize that as long as WE, as individuals are content with what works for us as Individuals, there would be no real use for sites like this one.

But as a group, we can not do that! We want everyone to believe as we do. Does not matter if someone has vastly more experience or is a beginner, We Want Them To Understand That The Way WE Do Things Is The Only Correct Way.

I like the bigger guns, because I liked Elmer's writing better than I did O'Connor. In reality though over the years, I have learned and witnessed on numerous occasions, that less experienced people and the larger calibers are not a real good combination.

The bigger guns do offer advantages, but the hunter using them has to know when those advantages have to be brought in to play, regardless of the game being shot.

+1 to Crazy - very perceptive post.

Personally, I'd rather read screeds of Elmer's ramblings than read JOC - he just doesn't "grab" me like Elmer does. When I was but a yoof I didn't like Elmer much, but I decided to treat his writings as if he were talking to me - voila - instant rapport with the old man.

And, yes, I do tend to follow Elmer more than JOC, but the whole feud thing made it impossible for either of them to back down in any way, so it was impossible for Elmer to concede that mybe a 30-06 was good for more than gophers and for JOC to admit that maybe the 270 wasn't a perfect buffalo gun .... but that's my opinion.

"The final word on elk rifles"

Good luck with that Randall..

I thought it was a catchy title.

Hopefully, at least in my lifetime, we will never lose the ability to own the firearms we choose and have "Discussions" such as this one.

I think too many of us have lost sight of how fortunate we are in America to be able to own and use whatever caliber rifle we wish to when hunting anything we choose to hunt.

There is no right or wrong if the individual is content with what they are using.

My preferred elk rifle is a short barreled .375H&H. Because I like to hunt elk in the steep, deep and thick stuff. A lot of my shots are snap shots and I need something that will penetrate to the goods even on a moving away elk. A .375H&H with 270 gr TSX bullet will reliably do that. A .270 ANY .270 will not reliably do that.

However as mentioned I hunt them with what I have in my hands, often times while on the family ranch in New Mexico elk are targets of opportunity. You shoot them when you can and often they are secondary species to what we are after. Therefore I've shot them with what happened to be in the truck at the time. My father in laws rifle my daughters rifle, my buddies rifle, whatever.

The end all elk rifle weighs 3.5 lbs, it fires a 250 gr or heavier bullet at about 2950 FPS. that bullet has an SD of 305 or grater and is controlled expansion. It has a BC of .500. The rifle carries a scope that is 1.5 x12 power and weighs 8oz and has a ranging system in it that is dead nuts on from 10 feet to 1,000 yards. It also has a 36mm objective lenses and collects light better than a night vision scope. The rifle has an 18" barrel and recoils no worse than a .223 and is slim and easy to carry.

After you've shot your elk you can use that rifle as a rocket pack that will fly you back to camp with your elk in tow.

THAT is the end all elk rifle.

gonna be hard to beat THAT rifle

Well I kind of lied, given the choices. I've killed 20 plus elk with my 270, but I have killed one cow elk so far with my 500 Jeffery. Anyone tells me that's not enough gun we're going to have a problem lol

quote:

Hopefully, at least in my lifetime, we will never lose the ability to own the firearms we choose and have "Discussions" such as this one.

I think too many of us have lost sight of how fortunate we are in America to be able to own and use whatever caliber rifle we wish to when hunting anything we choose to hunt.

Yep!

30-06 3 bull elk
300 WSM 2 bull elk
300 RUM 1 bull elk
7mm WSM 1 bull elk
Hoyt X-Tec compound bow 2 cow elk

bullets used in order of caliber
180gr Nosler ballistic tip in -06
168gr Barnes TSX in 300 WSM
200 Accubond in RUM
140 Accubond in 7mm WSM (too light, needed TSX or 160 AB)

I prefer something not necessarily larger, but flatter shooting than the 30-06 for hunting elk. Next rifle I'm building is a Ti actioned 300 Win mag and I think that will be ideal shooting 200gr AB's. Of course I'm working on a 7mm Dakota that might get the nod too...we'll see how it shoots and handles.

I've taken my elk with either a 300 magnum (various) or a 7mm RM. The 300 definitely hits harder and is the one I prefer. As I've gotten older the recoil bothers me more so I had a muzzlebrake put on it. Now it doesn't kick much but it sure is loud. If other hunters are going to be with me I use the 7 RM out of respect for their hearing. I've built a 30/06AI with 25.5" barrel to use this year. I'm working up loads for it now.

I prefer Elmer to O'Connor also. Mainly because he wasn't some hooity tooit college professor. . In some ways I think he was a dumb red neck. But all this elk rifle arguing drives me crazy. Its not.like we are talking about brown bear rifles. . Having only owned 2 270s , 1 I got for my wife. One I got on a SWEET deal. But I traded it off.quick. . I've had and have 12 338s iirc and shot, hunted and hid behind them for years. Mostly because the 375 Ruger Alaskan hadn't been invented yet.
If I lived on the coast.in brown bear country. I wouldn't hunt with the 6.5 . But now I do and its fun. General all purples hunting that is. Not specializing in bear hunting with the 6.5. The 338 used to be.my general use deer rifle .

My 1st elk was with a 270 Winchester, the next couple were with a 35 Whelen, the next one again a 270 Winchester. Couple more with 30-06, and 3 with a Ruger 77/50 muzzle loader.

I like the Whelen as an elk rifle, figure it's about as good as it gets. However, the 270 Winchester in the hands of a rifleman, is all that is necessary and does a great job. I tend to align myself with The O'Connor side of shooting. As to Crazy's poll, what's the problem with it? The cow elk I am with in my avatar, was shot with the muzzle loader, as the one I shot last Thursday, bang flop./

Jerry

Never shot an Elk, but I have shot some European Moose in my life and I have killed the majority of them with a 30-06 and a 6.5-06.
I would not hesitate to use my 6.5-06 to hunt Elk and it is still my #1 choice when hunting European Moose now.

1 Red deer = 1 small elk.
44 mag or 45-70 !

Many Thanks to all those that participated in the Poll/Discussion.

There is no be all/end all "Perfect For All Situations/Game/Hunters Rifle" of any kind.

As long as the individual is content and competent with what they are using, that is all that matters.

I have killed most of my elk with a .35 Whelen, that is what I bought it for, to hunt elk. But I have also killed elk with my .300 Weatherby and the .340 Weatherby I owned, and my .375 H&H.

I have been on hunts where people killed elk with .270's/.243's/.30-06's/.338's and .308's to name a few.

All elk were killed, some maybe not as quickly or cleanly as would have been desired, especially after the tracking and dragging jobs were finished, but they all worked.

One thing someone mentioned and I apologize for not remembering who at this moment, but if more hunters would spend more time shooting the rifle of their choice, they would find that they have less trouble with recoil and muzzle blast and an easier time placing their first shot properly.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
I think a more interesting question would be for those that have hunted elk successfully in the past, what would you use this year. (rifle only)

1) Limited entry or trophy possibility

2) meat hunt (cow or spike)

If I had my choice it would be
Hunt 1) 300WSM
Hunt 2) 270

If I could only use one rifle, 300 WSM. Rather simple choice for me.

#1 338wm with 250 grain Nosler partition.
#2 Winchester 1886 in 50-110 with 450 grain Barnes original.

this year our camp hunted with

a 375 chey-tac [finally he brought enough gun]
a 378 338 weatherby
a 338 win mag bar [me]
a 300 win mag
a 300 h&H
a 7x57 Mauser


its all about the kind of company you keep in camp

how well can you run your rifle

My answer in the poll referred only to sambar ("Indian Elk"), which are a bit smaller than wapiti but known for toughness. Most were shot with 250-grain bullets from my 338 WM but one was hit on the run with a .450/.400 double rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Everyone has whined/cried/pissed/moaned and praised their choice of caliber to kill elk with, to hell with what Elmer or Jack said.

Pretty much a silly poll... I've taken elk with the 270W up to the 338WM. This year will be with a 7-08.

They all work.

The elk hunter makes the elk rifle, not the reverse.