https://cuttingedgebullets.com...rce.cgi?display=home
Hi everyone. The Raptors are now available! They are out of the development and testing stage! You can get it in 30 cal 130 grains right now and more to come soon. Hope you enjoy using them.

Here are the initial bullet weight and caliber runs. The rest should be up in a couple weeks.
22 cal, 40 and 55 grains
6mm 65 grains
25 cal, 80 grains
6.5 110 grains
270 110 grains
7mm 115 and 140
338 225
375 230 and a heavier one later.

Bomm a question, on the 338 is it set up the same way/ability to use or not use the inserted point?? Am interested because you say it will work as a flat point and am looking for some thing a little heavier to shoot out of my 33 win

Yes!
Will work without tip.
You add the tip as desired.
I'd love to hear how it does.
What velocity are you aiming for?

Do brass CEB maintain a mushroom through a reasonable velocity range, or do the petals sheer off relatively easily?
What minimum velocity can they be reliably expected to sheer oFF?
Can I load them against the lands without pressure concerns, Or must one use the same caution as with conventional cup-cores and grooved Barnes-X type?

With the band design you are somewhat limited as to how much you can load out the bullet. The bullets have a minimal bearing surface design so pressures should not be high following common sense loading but maybe Michael could respond to the loading into the lands issue. The bullet does not seem fussy in terms of accuracy at a variety of seating depths but I would check for pressure signs loading into the lands. The bullets dont mushroom per se and seem to have a functional sheering velocity envelope of 1,700 and up.

quote:

With the band design you are somewhat limited as to how much you can load out the bullet. The bullets have a minimal bearing surface design..

The CEB Raptor, appears to be a grooved design rather than a drive band design.

It is a bore rider design. The shank is the bore dimension and the bands are groove diameter and around the bands are a sub bore reliefs to allow for band material engraving and debris.

OK.
interested to learn how well a banded Brass bullet reduces pressure compared to a Copper banded bullet.

If you look at the pressure trace tests Michael has done you can see the diference. This three band design has less bearing surface than about every bullet on the market.

If Michael happens to say that Brass Raptors do not cause pressure spikes when loaded to touch the rifling, then that should suffice.


drive band design shell from 1870 [calibre: 15cm ]

Holy Cow, you guys busy down here! Lot's of questions sometimes I don't have all the answers either, but will try and help out some.

I am not sure how many of you guys here in "mediums" go up to big bores and look around, many times we all as shooters have our particular interests, mine is almost strictly big bore, so I don't come down here much, and I would bet that some of you don't venture upstairs to big bores much. So some may have not been looking at the terminal performance thread, and some of the other threads concerning these bullets or type of bullets on Big Bores, or even in the double rifle forum. So I will try and give a quick, brief history to help answer some questions. The two links below will answer many questions however along with showing all the test work, including some barrel strain and pressure work.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...861009461#2861009461

http://forums.accuratereloadin...071009461#4071009461


First let me try and give some answers

Trax

quote:

Can I load them against the lands without pressure concerns

Of course you know this, but always use caution. I can't give a specific instance for your question to be honest. In all the testing I have done with my rifles I have loaded to feed and function from the magazine. Then of course into the chamber to make sure of no issues there. For me, I have to work through the magazine first and foremost on dangerous game rifles, I want that second and third shot. As for a bump in pressure, probably some, that is common with anything, dangerous, probably not. In all the work I have tested with strain gages and running pressure traces there are two bullets that ALWAYS give less pressure than all others, in both chamber, and in barrel strain, and that is the BBW#13 band designs and the North Fork designs. While North Fork is copper, the tiny bands reduce pressures. In the BBW#13 that we tested in copper as opposed to brass, the copper tended to be more pressures across the board than the brass, exact same bullet same weight same bands. Copper while softer, is more sticky than brass, brass having its own lubricity as it goes down the bore. In barrel strain tests in the beginning brass won out over copper in this respect, causing less barrel strain than the copper. The 4 band and 3 band BBW#13 designs either copper or brass, gave less barrel strain and chamber pressures than all other types across board, along with the North Fork bands, even in copper. But between the BBWs, the brass won out over copper.

The bands are drive bands.

quote:

Do brass CEB maintain a mushroom through a reasonable velocity range, or do the petals sheer off relatively easily?
What minimum velocity can they be reliably expected to sheer oFF?

A very excellent question, and is of some importance to the ESP Raptors. With the big bore Dangerous Game NonCons it comes of some less importance, although I know and test these parameters to find out what the low end terminal performance is, or the point of shearing effect. With the DG NonCons since one does not concern one self with longer ranges it is of some less concern, DG taken at normal short ranges under most all circumstances being less than 50 yards, with 50 being LONG range! ESP Raptors, are designed as a longer range bullet, not super long in my opinion, but a hunting bullet, and in most hunting circumstances that equates to anything from point blank to 300 or so yards. So it is important to know at what point shear stops.

Each and every caliber and weight of the ESP Raptor has to be tested for this, all calibers and weights will have a different low end velocity shear. There are several factors involved with shear, the weight pushing behind the NonCon HP, velocity, and hydrostatics. The heavier the rear end pushing the nose, the lower velocity one can get shear. The faster one can push the bullet, the range of shear extended of course. As all the new ESP Raptors come out, actually before they are available, I will know what the low end terminal performance velocity is, and it should be put on the website with the bullet. I will check with Dan and Nathan to make sure they get that on for you guys.

The .308 caliber ESP Raptor low end velocity is 1700 fps at which shear effect is positive. I give you a bit of lee way on this, as I had shear down in the lower 1600s. 1700 fps is a safe number to work with. At the estimated BC with the tip, this gives a 308 at 2900 fps or so, around 400 yards that shear occurs. Without the tip, a good bit less as BC is dropped.

Trax, that is an incredible photo of the old shell from the 1870s! I have never seen that, it's great, it's a BBW#13 band design only in "Reverse" BBW#13 with the 3 bands up top, and one driving band at the bottom!

David

quote:

Bomm a question, on the 338 is it set up the same way/ability to use or not use the inserted point?? Am interested because you say it will work as a flat point and am looking for some thing a little heavier to shoot out of my 33 win

Absolutely works fine and great without a tip! The NonCons were all designed without tips, the only reason the NonCons ever got tips was some wanted to better the BC so they could use the same bullet to do longer range plains game and such. The BBW#13 NonCon designed for dangerous game, needs no tip, and in the big bores it is the hammer of Thor on DG.

ESP Raptors are BBW#13s at both ends, the solid end is a BBW#13 Solid, pure, 67% meplat for caliber, 13 degree nose angle, and length of the nose projection. Other end, BBW#13 NonCon, designed perfectly natural as a flat nose hollow point. Add the tip, extend the range. Tips added after loading in the case.

Raptors are designed slightly different from the normal BBW#13 NonCon in that the nose projection is shorter to accommodate the tip in most all magazine bolt guns, this shorter nose projection does not effect terminal performance at all.

I am sure that did not answer all, but please ask, if I know I will tell you!

Over the next few weeks as new ESP Raptors in other calibers are completed they will be tested, both terminals, accuracy, longer ranges, BCs and so forth. My responsibility will deal with the "Terminal" aspects of the bullet, while others will do accuracy, and BCs for the most part.

Michael

"Lubricity" lol
Leaving that barn door open and not going there.

Boom not sure,after reading about the bullet it just clicked in my head, ran out of the old Hornaday flat points and have been shooting lead, but this bullet sure could keep the ole girl going think the old loads where in the 2200-2500 area if I remember right.

What do you think I should worl for??

quote:

Copper while softer, is more sticky than brass, brass having its own lubricity as it goes down the bore. In barrel strain tests in the beginning brass won out over copper in this respect, causing less barrel strain than the copper.

I was unsure as to whether the more malleable/more gummy/tougher nature of copper would be advantage or disadvantage over the harder [but more lubric] nature of brass.

Ive always machined brass dry, but only machined copper without lubricant when using diamond inserts.

Trax,
driving band, not grooved...

difference being a driving band engages the rifling, not the bullet body..

this are FIRED bullets

That velocity should be deadly and then some
Let me know hiw it goes.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave James:
Boom not sure,after reading about the bullet it just clicked in my head, ran out of the old Hornaday flat points and have been shooting lead, but this bullet sure could keep the ole girl going think the old loads where in the 2200-2500 area if I remember right.

What do you think I should worl for??

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Trax,
driving band, not grooved...

difference being a driving band engages the rifling, not the bullet body..

JeffO, thnks for posting pics of fired Raptors...

Some Qs'

Is a NF soft point , a multi-grooved or multi-banded bullet?

Essentially,a bullet[without multiple grooves or bands] is still a drive band bullet,
its just that it uses a large part of its length as the drive band, correct?

An example of such is the orig. Barnes-X [ie; it has one large un-interupted drive band]

Putting a series of relief grooves along the length of the single band, created the Barnes-TSX,now having multiple drive bands.

In bullets like the CEB,..KJG...GSC-HV... Lehigh... they opted for more narrow drive-bands.

The only hunting projectiles that I can think of that do not rely on part of its body to act as an integral drive band, are the saboted type.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

First let me try and give some answers

Trax

quote:

Can I load them against the lands without pressure concerns

Of course you know this, but always use caution. I can't give a specific instance for your question to be honest. In all the testing I have done with my rifles I have loaded to feed and function from the magazine. Then of course into the chamber to make sure of no issues there. For me, I have to work through the magazine first and foremost on dangerous game rifles, I want that second and third shot. As for a bump in pressure, probably some, that is common with anything, dangerous, probably not. In all the work I have tested with strain gages and running pressure traces there are two bullets that ALWAYS give less pressure than all others, in both chamber, and in barrel strain, and that is the BBW#13 band designs and the North Fork designs. While North Fork is copper, the tiny bands reduce pressures. In the BBW#13 that we tested in copper as opposed to brass, the copper tended to be more pressures across the board than the brass, exact same bullet same weight same bands. Copper while softer, is more sticky than brass, brass having its own lubricity as it goes down the bore. In barrel strain tests in the beginning brass won out over copper in this respect, causing less barrel strain than the copper. The 4 band and 3 band BBW#13 designs either copper or brass, gave less barrel strain and chamber pressures than all other types across board, along with the North Fork bands, even in copper. But between the BBWs, the brass won out over copper.

What are the company recommended guidelines for loading CEB brass bullets? The CEB website doesn't appear to have any information concerning such.

(people do hunt with single shots so they may be interested to begin by loading to the lands cause they don't have magbox length concerns)

for e.g. from GS-Custom: http://www.techfund.co.za/GSCBulletBasics.asp

"Start load development with the bullet touching the rifling if throat, magazine box and case dimensions will allow it. HV and FN bullets do not raise pressure levels like jacketed lead and standard and grooved monometal bullets do, when seated against the rifling. Reloaders must understand that GSC drive band bullets, that are started with conventional bullet start loads, will produce less speed than conventional bullets and will often not even seal the case. Close to a similar weight, conventional bullet, max load is usually a good place to start a drive band bullet but it remains a start load . Just as you would up the powder charge when going to a lighter bullet of similar construction, because of the lower resistance to acceleration, the powder charge for drive band bullets must be increased, for the same reason. This does not mean that we recommend maximum HV bullet loads across the board. The reloader chooses what pressure level he wants to work with and accepts the extra speed that he gains with HV or FN bullets as a bonus, whatever it is. Develop the speed of your load first. Once the desired speed is achieved, then tune the accuracy of the grouping by experimenting with overall cartridge length. Trying to do both at the same time will require more bullets than separating the two elements."

Considering CEB brass bullets showed the lowest pressure strain in tests, can one safely begin loading CEB banded-brass bullets the same way as GSC-HV?

Hi Trax

I wish I could give you more definite information on some of the things you have concerns with. Loading brass bullets is not the mystery it seems, I have shot 1000s upon top of thousands over the last 6 years or so, all calibers, weights, configurations. I pretty much treat them the same as I would any other bullet, start low, work up.

However your concerns about loading to the lands I can test for you during one of my pressure trace sessions if you like.

I can take one of my rifles set up with a strain gage and do that for you. Now, just tell me exactly what you are interested in. Would you like the bullet to actually bump slightly, tight against the lands, or just slightly off so there is no bump? Or both for that matter? Then I will load the same load normally to fit the magazine. That would give info on that sort of thing for you I would think, and not really be much of a mission to do so.

Michael

Trax,
think of it this way...
lets worth with a .475 bullet...

if the shank of the bullet (everything but the ogive and heel) is .475, then the shank is the bearing surface.. this is VERY HIGH friction - lets just call all thos forces friction for this discussion. this has a VERY high starting pressure (what it takes to drive the bullet into the rifling, even if it didn't exit the barrel)



if a bullet is grooved, like a TSX, and say, 40% of the surface area is reduced, as compared to a bullet of like construction.. starting pressure is reduced, but the body of the shank is still in engagement with the rifling

if it is driving bands (also called bore rider) ONLY the bands are engaged with the rifling. no other part of the bullet is engraved with th rifling, and these have a VERY low starting pressure and "friction"... if made up of the same material and basic construction, likely less than 5% of the resistence of a full shank (think barnesX) bullet...

can be loaded, and then goes, much faster, towards the top 1/3 of the useful work area (area under the pressure/time curve) as there's less resistence, and the bullet exits going much faster...

Just took my 308 long range gun out and tried Raptors in it. Gun was sighted in with 173 grain match loads. Raptor hit dead center of the bull first shot. Go to go put one in a deer.

Might get some of the 6.5 and the 7MM when they come out.

Id love to hear your experience with them. They should be available in a couple weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Trax,
think of it this way...
lets worth with a .475 bullet...

if the shank of the bullet (everything but the ogive and heel) is .475, then the shank is the bearing surface.. this is VERY HIGH friction - lets just call all thos forces frictio for this discussion. this has a VERY high starting pressure (what it takes to drive the bullet into the rifling, even if it didn't exit the barrel)


if a bullet is grooved, like a TSX, and say, 40% of the surface area is reduced, as compared to a bullet of like construction.. starting pressure is reduced, but the body of the shank is still in engagement with the rifling

if it is driving bands (also called bore rider) ONLY the bands are engaged with the rifling. no other part of the bullet is engraved with th rifling, and these have a VERY low starting pressure and "friction"... if made up of the same material and basic construction, likely less than 5% of the resistence of a full shank (think barnesX) bullet...

can be loaded, and then goes, much faster, towards the top 1/3 of the useful work area (area under the pressure/time curve) as there's less resistence, and the bullet exits going much faster...

Jeff,
I'm already well aware of the reasons for/benefits of reducing the shank dia. surface area by multiple banding or multiple grooving.

A regular ungrooved X,TSX,CEB,GscHV all use a shank dia. drive band approach.

A TSX with its grooves still has multiple shank dia. drive bands that engage the rifling,... albeit with less contact/friction than a regular(ungrooved)single drive band BarnesX, ...but more contact/friction than say a CEB or GscHV with(even further reduced contact area)shank dia. rifling engaging drive bands.

At what point is a bullet considered multi banded rather than multi-grooved?


Ie; is a NF soft point , a multi-grooved or multi drive-band bullet?

As one can see from the CEB Copper bullet design , one does not require narrow width shank dia. drive bands, to be called a drive-band design.
They can have wide drive bands like a TSX, however the TSX is considered[by some] as grooved, rather than having drive-bands.....

So, by what definitive method is it determined?...By specific percentage of rifling contact area?....By specific amount of pressure reduction?....any other method?

Trax,
I don't know a definative measurement.. i have a pretty basic rule of them.. if the rifling engraves anything but the bands or grooves, its a grooved bullet that reduces SOME friction.. but if it only engraves the belts, bands, or grooves (i've seen or made all of them) but NO SHANK then its driving bands or a bore rider..


to me...

So by defintion this TSX performed as a true drive-band bullet, with four bands of rifling contact along its length:
The difference being that unlike some other band bullets,the TSX does not have any "straight/parrallel" bore riding transition area, directly between the top drive-band and ogive.

NorthFork Cup point solids are like a TSX in the sense that, they also don't have a straight/parallel bore riding section, in front of the forward band.
[the NF-CP goes straight into a tapered nose, the TSX an ogive.]

If you compare the Raptor has half the bearing surface as the TSX. The shank area just rides the top of the rifling.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
If you compare the Raptor has half the bearing surface as the TSX. The shank area just rides the top of the rifling.

Ive already acknowledged that the Raptor has less bearing surface, however, what you say about its shank is interesting...

When one puts parallel bore relief areas on a TSX its considered "grooved"[according to some] allowing a certain amount of the bullet to ride the bore in parallel fashion.

When one puts larger parallel bore relief areas[wider grooves?] on another bullet like CEB or GSCHV,resulting in even less drive band area to contact with bore-- resulting in larger bore riding areas,
it called a drive-band bullet[which is different according to some]

If one didn't put bore riding relief areas on a CEB raptor, its major body/band dia. would be considered the shank, just like the major dia. of an ungrooved BarnesX is considered its shank.....correct?

But when one puts large enough relief areas on that shank as they have on the CEB, they create drive-bands, which are now no longer technically considered the shank part of the bullet?

I imagined multi drive-band bullets to be a design where the shank contact area with the bore is majorly reduced in order to more effectively reduce friction/pressures.

I didn't realize the shank is no longer considered the shank, if you reduce its surface contact area with the bore, to sufficient degree.


Q./ Just for clarification: Are the bore bearing unrelieved areas/bands? on a TSX considered the shank of the bullet, or are the parallel relief"grooved"bore riding areas, on a TSX technically considered the shank?

Rick Jamison on the Barnes website states this:

"The bottom of the grooves in the Barnes 180-grain TSX bullet I measured ran about .291 to .292 inch, depending on the groove’s position along the bullet shank...."

Im not saying anyone has to agree with him, but Id be interest to know what part of a CEB,KJG,GSC-HV or Lehigh bullet, Rick Jamison would technically consider to be the shank.


Now, Koos Barnard from Magnum Magazine (S.A) says this: http://www.t2ammo.com/data/_up...C%20HV%20Bullets.pdf

"All hunting bullets have what we call an ogive (the curved portion that ends in the bullet tip) and a shank (the cylindrical section behind the ogive). The shank also defines the bearing surface, the portion of the bullet that touches the lands and grooves when the bullet is in the barrel . The diameter of the shank must match the biggest inside diameter of the barrel, called the groove diameter - for a 7mm bullet this is normally .284 and for .30 calibers’ .308”. A rifled barrel has lands (the spiraling raised portions in the barrel) this means the land to land diameter is obviously smaller than the groove diameter. When a bullet moves through the barrel, the lands ‘bite’ into it over the entire length of the shank (bearing surface) which causes the bullet to spin - a prerequisite for good accuracy. The lands however, also increase the friction between bullet and barrel. Thus, bullets with long shanks will create higher pressure than bullets of similar weight with shorter bearing surfaces, all else being equal. Higher pressure also means higher velocities, but when increasing the powder charge you will eventually reach a point where the pressure rises very rapidly with very little or no gain in velocity. When reaching this point, one way to increase velocity (using a bullet of similar weight and the same given powder) is to reduce friction in the barrel by reducing the bearing surface of the bullet. That allows the reloader to increase the charge, hence also the velocity. That is exactly how GSC’s HV bullets work.
Notice in the photo that they have concentric rings, called driving bands, on the shank and only these match the groove diameter of the barrel . This means that the lands engage (‘bite’ into) far less copper than with conventional bullets. HV’s thus build up pressure slower and in general, achieve higher velocities than conventional bullets of similar weight in any given caliber."

putting aside the terminology that the marketing section of a projectile brand might choose to use.
( they are a world unto themselves & flow with the wind using terminology to suit perceived market advantage in just about every product field )

The engineering manufacturing industry has been providing "relief" on parallel shafts for a long time.
small volume relief & large volume relief has developed its own conventions
if the parallel section of a shaft has less than 50 % of its bearing surface relieved the relief is called grooves.
ie
a shaft with a shank of 1" diameter with grooves 0.050" deep

If a parallel section of a shaft has more than 50% of its bearing bearing surface relieved the length of relieved diameter is regarded as the shank
ie
the description now becomes a shaft of 0.950" dia with sections/bands of 1.0" diameter.

Following that convention in firearms projectiles would refer to :-
- projectiles with less than 50% of its potential contact with lands relieved , as 'grooved' with a shank of bore size
- projectiles with more than 50% of its potential contact with lands relieved , as having drive bands with a shank of less than land size.

the same convention would apply to projectiles having relief less than the diameter of the lands , the shank size of a banded projectile would just be larger than the land diameter.

Again, what the marketing section chooses to use & what terminology the hunter chooses to use are entirely different things to what the engineering community would use.

If the "hot" thing to be shooting is a "banded" bullet then they will call them all banded ...........shooter or marketing dept, irrespective of what the engineering world would call the shank/shaft dia and whether it was grooved or banded by physical convention.

confusion reigns.
the marketting dept is selling its version of the "hot" item.
&
the shooter is using the "hot" item.

Its all about perception.
Perception rules the marketplace

Trax,
no sir.. tsx, in that picture, is a grooved or banded bullet.. but not a driving band bullet... it only has reduced bearing surface..

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Trax,
no sir.. tsx, in that picture, is a grooved or banded bullet.. but not a driving band bullet... it only has reduced bearing surface..

J,
Are you saying the bands on the TSX do not function as driving bands?

The TSX only has reduced bearing surface,TRUE,..does not the same statement apply to CEB,KJG,GscHV,Lehigh,,...the difference being their bearing surfaces are further reduced?
How much does bearing surface have to be reduced in order for it to be considered a "true drive-band" bullet, rather than a more ordinary "banded" bullet?

An ungrooved BarnesX is a bullet with a long single uninterrupted drive-band, called the shank.
A TSX is based on an ungrooved X, that has been modified to reduce bearing area.
Grooves are put along the shank, resulting in multiple drive-bands of shank dia.

Look at the CEB copper bullet design:

http://site.cuttingedgebullets.../pages/bullet_design

http://site.cuttingedgebullets...s/bullet_description

is it a "true" drive-band design or just a more ordinary "banded" concept? [it has wide bands similar to TSX]

Is the CEB copper bullet a true drive-band design, by technical function & definition?

Heres a Barnes "banded" solid for comparison:

Upon reading we discover that; unlike Gsc-HV bullets which seal the barrel with their drive-bands,
CEB copper bullets are not designed to use their drive-bands to seal the barrel,..their primary function is to align the bullet & engage the rifling.

" Driving Band - Portion of the bullet that is between the SealTite Band and bore rider or ogive. This portion of the bullet engages the lands, or rifling, ahead of the SealTite Band and gets the bullet tracking true to the rifling before the SealTite band enter the lands. It is absolutely critical the bullet is tracking properly before SealTite Band engages or "stripping" occurs and seal is lost. Our bullets are tested to ensure the driving band is long enough to ensure this does not happen. Since seal is not achieved with the driving band on our bullets its diameter is under nominal caliber diameter to prevent excess pressure . Caution! It is extremely important that if any individuals had a custom barrel made undersize, the driving band diameter must first be measured to ensure it is smaller than your groove diameter or you will get excess pressure. Solid copper does not give like lead core bullets and custom size barrel users must be very cautious. Any SAAMI spec. or factory rifle barrel will not have this problem. The Driving Band length can be customized to allow for more or less jump into the throat to bore angle."



Now lets add to the discussion....NorthFork says:

"All NorthFork bullets utilize Smart Band Technology (SBT™) to reduce bore fouling and pressure....
Bands cut into the shank of the bullet reduce the contact surface area between the bullet and rifling reducing fouling.Other banded bullets have large bands that minimize contact area, but is where the design stops, NF utilises much smaller bands(SBT) than the competition. .The smaller bands not only reduce the surface area but they also conform to the barrel resulting in significantly less fouling then just reducing the surface area."

If you go to NF FAQs; you'll see that they refer to their bullets a being grooved.

"The purpose of the grooves is twofold. First, whenever a bullet passes down the barrel, the lands of the rifling must engrave the bullet. The material that is displaced by those lands must have a place to go. In a conventional bullet, with a thin jacket and a full-length lead core, the jacket and core can easily yield to the lands. In a monolithic bullet or one with a monolithic rear section, the only route of escape for the displaced material is to make the bullet longer. Considering the material in this area will not yield, as easily as if there was lead underneath it, the stresses, between the bullet and the barrel, will exceed the sheer strength of the jacket material. This increased stress sets up a galling action, which is one of the major causes of jacket fouling. What the grooves do is to allow the material that is displaced by the rifling lands, an easy escape route. This allows the stresses between the bullet and the barrel to stay below the point at which galling (fouling) occurs.

The second advantage of the grooves on the rear section is that they allow the bullet to be more forgiving to variations in bore dimensions. The dimensions of different barrels commonly vary by, plus or minus, .0003”, and it is not unheard of that they can vary by more than .0010”. If you put a solid sectioned bullet down a barrel that is over standard size, you probably won’t have too much of a problem; accuracy may suffer but, generally, it won’t be dangerous. Unfortunately, the reverse is not so benign. A solid sectioned bullet fired down an undersized barrel can cause, dangerously high, pressure spikes as well as increasing the probability of severe fouling. The grooves lessen this problem, as they are designed to receive more than the standard amount of displaced material."


If one spaced the thin bands more apart on the NF solid, to resemble more say a Gsc-HV,
would that make it a "true drive-band" bullet or would it still remain a grooved bullet?


Barnes "banded" Solid: .... Lehigh,Barnes,GSC:

CEB drive-band FN bullet for comparison.

308 Raptor swooped down and took a deer this morning. 256 yards BANG FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Details to follow in Terminals.

Sam

Check out the deer SRose got this morning.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...3/m/2861098911/p/198