I have a 338 Lapua Improved and velocities far exceed 338 RUM. I have "5c" rifling that supposedly gives less pressure and greater speeds.

104gr Retumbo behind a 300gr bullet gives well over 3100 fps.

What action?

Real success with the .338 Noreen semi auto. Finally have this thing working. 83 gr IMR 7828,250 gr Lapua Scenar, Fed 215, Norma cases and OAL of 3.630 gives consistent 0.5 inch groups off the bipod with perfect extraction and ejection from the mag. Ejected cases still hit the side bolt handle but I can fix that. No torn rims either.Gas level now perfect. Recoils like a .308 bolt gun.
Darn I enjoy sorting these problem children out!

Both a solution to a non existent problem. 340 Weatherby factory ammo does 2960 to2980 fps in 250gr from my 26" MkV. Recoil like a briskly loaded 375 H&H. I think the others serve a purpose and some hate the belt but for performance in a regular sized action (large like for 375 H&H) it's tough to better the 340 Wby.

Actually the 338 Lapua was designed as a military cartridge from the ground up. Low pressure, high velocity (thanks to the big case), but not so much velocity that you can feel the barrel walls thinning with each shot.

It to me is the 30-06 of long range. Perfect for the majority of long range shots, where the 308 and most 300 Win loads (not all though) fail to achieve hits.

The very best thing about the 338 Lapua in my book is the Lapua Brass!

The Lapua was not designed to work in a Remington 700 size action and IMHO it is too large for the 700.

338 Edge is much higher pressure and brass doesn't last near as well......and your choices are Remington and Norma....when you can get it.

The Edge is a fine cartridge but brass is troublesome......

Carrying hunting rifle = 338 Edge
Long range Accuracy = 338 Lapua

I have no experience with the 338 RUM. I do with the 375, 300 and 7mm, not good experience.

There is an old saying, "analysis to paralysis...". I am there.

I plan to use the Berger 300gr bullets, and their
website now has loading data for both cartridges. They handicap them, by using a 26" barrel.

That said, the top velocities are within 50-60fps of each other. I have read, on other sites, that the number is 100fps or less, in favor of the Lapua.

The odd thing from Berger, is that the powder charges (same powder) are from 1.5 to 2gr of each other, more for the Lapua.

Lapua brass is about 35% more expensive than RUM, but nobody has any 375 RUM in stock, except Remington. I am not that desperate yet.

Bruno's has the Lapua for $2.49 a case, and it is sorted by weight. Very good stuff, and it is in stock. Lots of it.

So now, the balance beam is shifting back to the Lapua.

I am thinking the Stiller P1000, with its dual port set up. Loaded rounds in the left port, empties are ejected to the right.

So, that is the progress report.

Oh, yes, I found a Pence barrel in .338". 1.5" diameter by 33" long, and fluted. Weighs about 12.4lbs. Probably not going to be a packing rifle.

I do appreciate the input from all of you,

Rich

My two cents,I bought a a 338 lapua From Biebs on here a while ago,it's a Dakota African,had a Rem MLR before that,
I have used a 338 Lapua in Africa several times now,it's a hammer of Thor,have hunted game upto giraffe & buff,it's boringly accurate & deadly on game,very impressive kills,I would take any game including elephant if it was legal.

Mine isn't here yet but I am excited. Sako 338 Lapua TRG-42. One of the older ones with a Sako mount.

irony...
when a guy rides the rum's and WSMs for being useless wildcats

and builds a wildcatted version on the same.

then calls other factory ammo trifflin'

A good friend of mine built a 300 WSM as a F-Open rifle. He has done wonderfully with it. Of course he has been shooting Fullbore and F-Class for half his life and he is in his late 70s.

I think it is a solid round as well. I wish it was 300 Win length. Even though it would be interesting to do one like that, probably not something I would undertake.

Bruno's has LAPUA brass in stock for $2.49 a piece.

Well, I done went an dunnit..built a .338 Long Throated rifle on a Mauser action, cut the chamber to take the long 300 gr. Accubond that takes up too much powder space in my Ruger African .338 Win.

Used a Swift 375 box and matched box and chamber, and wow! I can duplicate the 340 Wby with ease..and to my surprise its a tack driver with all the overly long .338 bullets, and the same with factory or my .338 Ruger handloads with that long jump to the riflings..they all shoot to the same spot..The rifle has all the bells and whistle, truly a nice rifle..but when elk season rolled around last year I grabbed my ols Ruger African and my old 300 H&H, and poped a big lead cow with the Ruger at 354 yards with a 210 Nosler at 3000 FPS, she went 15 yards..

My full blown custom ,338 Long throated rifle sits in the gun closet..Hell I'll end up selling it..I just see no use for anything more than the standard .338 Win. for my hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Well, I done went an dunnit..built a .338 Long Throated rifle on a Mauser action, cut the chamber to take the long 300 gr. Accubond that takes up too much powder space in my Ruger African .338 Win.

Used a Swift 375 box and matched box and chamber, and wow! I can duplicate the 340 Wby with ease..and to my surprise its a tack driver with all the overly long .338 bullets, and the same with factory or my .338 Ruger handloads with that long jump to the riflings..they all shoot to the same spot..The rifle has all the bells and whistle, truly a nice rifle..but when elk season rolled around last year I grabbed my ols Ruger African and my old 300 H&H, and poped a big lead cow with the Ruger at 354 yards with a 210 Nosler at 3000 FPS, she went 15 yards..

My full blown custom ,338 Long throated rifle sits in the gun closet..Hell I'll end up selling it..I just see no use for anything more than the standard .338 Win. for my hunting.

Ray, what's the barrel length on that African? I have one 338 in 24", a 340 Wby with a 24" and a 26" 338 that's going to get chopped 22-24", haven't decided. Guys at 24hr are giving me grief to chop 22". Thought I might and throw some NECG adjustables on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Well, I done went an dunnit..built a .338 Long Throated rifle on a Mauser action, cut the chamber to take the long 300 gr. Accubond that takes up too much powder space in my Ruger African .338 Win.

Used a Swift 375 box and matched box and chamber, and wow! I can duplicate the 340 Wby with ease..and to my surprise its a tack driver with all the overly long .338 bullets, and the same with factory or my .338 Ruger handloads with that long jump to the riflings..they all shoot to the same spot..The rifle has all the bells and whistle, truly a nice rifle..but when elk season rolled around last year I grabbed my ols Ruger African and my old 300 H&H, and poped a big lead cow with the Ruger at 354 yards with a 210 Nosler at 3000 FPS, she went 15 yards..

My full blown custom ,338 Long throated rifle sits in the gun closet..Hell I'll end up selling it..I just see no use for anything more than the standard .338 Win. for my hunting.

and loaded to way higher than stock pressure, as the increase is case volume is about 3%, but the resulting increase in vel is about 8-12% ...

just saying ---

Hmmmm! Another "Mine is bigger than yours" thread going here. Same as the gunrange.

Turns out if you improve the Lapua case it's the class leader in velocity. Try that.

It's one thing to sit at a shooting bench at the range on a mild day and pick at the .338 Lapua for lack of hyper-velocity. It's another to use it firing many rounds between cleanings in extreme environments where the margin of pressure afforded by it not being "improved" is well appreciated.

The .338 Lapua is a military cartridge. It is a superb military cartridge. It does it's job well at the pressures and velocities for which it was designed.

There is nothing wrong with being a velocity enthusiast. But if you want a faster .338 then "improving" the Lapua round will only whet your appetite. Why not try something designed for velocity from the get-go, something like the .338 Allen Magnum? The .338 Allen Magnum dwarfs the .338 Lapua.

Velocity Performance:
Bullet Weight / Velocity (33" barrel length)
265 gr. / 3550 fps
300 gr. / 3350 fps

The Allen Magnum produces high velocities but it wouldn't make a very good military round.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Hmmmm! Another "Mine is bigger than yours" thread going here. Same as the gunrange.

I am not understanding this. Cartridges can ordinaly ranked by any metric and if you have more than one, one is going to be bigger. Why would that bother you?

Regarding 338, I max out at a 340 wby. There is no advantage that I could realize from any of the bigger 338s.

Smallguy, I have an opinion here as do you, OK.
Using Grenadier's cartridge, you will need a new barrel after about 100 rounds.
Oh well, go for it guys.

338 Norma is a better option for military shooters. 375 Allen tactical or magnum is what I would use personally.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

and loaded to way higher than stock pressure, as the increase is case volume is about 3%, but the resulting increase in vel is about 8-12% ...

just saying ---

Ray has special batches of powder that is then mixed with bullshit

A 338 equalling a 340 "with ease" would mean with top loads he could get his 338 Winchester to equal a 338 Lapua or maybe a 338/378.

Onw can only wonder what velocities he could get from a 338/06

he must buy his powder from Hornady...

Going back on task; I am going with the LAPUA round after all.

Brass and 300gr Bergers came today. Dies are enroute.

enjoy that Lapua. It looks like a very well balanced cartridge and would be my choice over the RUM/Edge when wanting 200-300 fps over the WinMag. Very nice.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

and loaded to way higher than stock pressure, as the increase is case volume is about 3%, but the resulting increase in vel is about 8-12% ...

just saying ---

Ray has special batches of powder t
hat is then mixed with bullshit

A 338 equalling a 340 "with ease" would mean with top loads he could get his 338 Winchester to equal a 338 Lapua or maybe a 338/378.

Onw can only wonder what velocities he could get from a 338/06

there is a saying:

"if women do not find you handsome, they should at least find you handy..."

The Corollary that applies here:

"if the membership does not find you educational, they should at least find you entertaining..."

That reminds me of the old W.C. Fields adage, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

The 338 WinMag is the "308" of magnums. It does a whole lot, maybe everything needed even if not legal for everything, in a relatively small, highly efficient cartridge. With the right bullets and permits, a person could hunt anything on the planet.

The Lapua just does things a little faster for farther away. If one's hunting is limited to 400 yards, then the WinMag does it all.

within 75 miles of my house there are places I can shoot Rockchucks clear to the horizon...

Jeffe,
your full of the perverbial ca ca...So tell me how many long throated .338s have you played with..cut the BS give me an honest answer..I have the loads and the chronograph..You need to realize that your not the last word in all subjects and as a result you have all the virtures that I dislike and the vices I simply cannot admire in that you insist on using AR for surport as opposed to illumination!

No, really - I can't make this stuff up --

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
IMO a 150 gr. Sierra, Corelokt, ... I can shoot this bullet at 3000 FPS in a .308

-- never mind that the factory sees 2800ish as being about the max - i guess those LONG THROATED custom chambers must really work wonders...

3000 fps in a 308 win with a 150gr bullet... just a BIT over any load book

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Jeffe,
your full of the perverbial ca ca...

opinions vary

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

So tell me how many long throated

actually, ray, i've built, designed, and PRESSURE TESTED now 1/2 a dozen various throated rounds, taking them to headstamped brass and INDEPENDENTLY verified and duplicated loads, by people on 5 continents - and, frankly, i've shot your 8mm loads -- and i have a long memory for locked bolts.. just saying

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
.338s have you played with.

338s? i don't bother "wildcatting" for a 1 to 2 % grain in volume -- you KNOW the formula, proven by ackley himself, your velocity gain is 1/4 of the PERCENT gain of case volume, at the same pressure -

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
.cut the BS

i certainly can, ray -- would you like me to discuss locked bolts on 8mm mauser, or hot loads in a 450/400? your call - you might reconsider this engagement

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
give me an honest answer..

honest answer? your "loads" are dangerously higher pressure, as you are Mathematical proof that you are achieving velocity improvements greater than simple math allows for improvements in case volume. QED, high pressure, oh thermonuclear ray

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have the loads and the chronograph.

undoubtedly - and I have a pressure tester -- care to glue a sensor on your barrel? you pay my airfare and accommodations (my choice, not yours) if your loads are over 62,500 PSI? if they are under, i'd pay my own, and publicly post a retraction

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
.You need to realize that your not the last word in all subjects

nope, as a working experimenter and an actual trained scientist, I am loath to opinion on matters that I have no knowledge -- i realize many other persons don't have such scruples

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
and as a result you have all the virtures

i assume you mean virtues -- and by feeling a need to call out BS when I see it, I can realize your discomfort with these little exchanges

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
that I dislike and the vices I simply cannot admire

ah, something to the point of expert in all things, i believe was your quoted remark. perhaps a moment to ponder the petard prior to self-levitation could be in order, sir. Having met me once, I am astounded by your assumed expert knowledge

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
in that you insist on using AR for surport

*support

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
as opposed to illumination!

in the whole, i shall assume your ad homme approach indicates both a lack of wit and the inability to be challenged, enjoy the ride on your petard, sir

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

nice Ray -- please provide details of when you would prefer to have an actual pressure test of your loads vs factory loads -- its been awhile that i've been to idaho -- i would enjoy a respite from the heat, though I dare to suggest that the kitchen may be a tad warm for yourself

Jeffeosso,

You state..."3000 fps in a 308 win with a 150gr bullet... just a BIT over any load book"

My Nosler reloading manual posts a load for the 308 Winchester at 2997 fps for 150/155 gr Nosler bullets using a 24" barrel and 46 grs of TAC (95% load density). 3 fps is within reading error of any chronograph. The previous editions posts a 150 gr load with Varget going 3001 fps.

They post 2958 fps using 46 grs of Re15.

IME, Sierra and Coreloks behave much like NBTs and Accubonds.

Are you certain Atkinson is that over pressure with his claim of 3000 fps with a 308 using 150 gr bullets?

AIU

fly to Boise Jeffe. I owe you a couple nights room and board from the first Hoot'n'Shoot. Ray is about a two hour drive east of me.

In Ray's defense, the Barnes manual does list one load with their 150gr XBT at 2998fps, and three different powders that pushed the XLC BT over 3000fps. Their load of 48gr of AA2520 clocked 3106fps from a 24" barrel.

They do not reveal pressure data, but I would hazard a guess that it is close to maximum.

My 30" F/TR gun shoots almost 3200 with 155 SMKs

it appears some reloading books have higher vels than factory ammo -- and that I am comfortable with ---

i stand corrected of my error, than you

With 24 inch barrel, three different rifles, the top I have had with 150 grainers in 308 is just over 2900....2900-2920 and Ohler 35 and with Win 748.

With Varget 2800 was it, just can't get enough in.

Based on having used Re 15 in the 375 maybe it would do better.

Personally, I left reloading manuals behind more years ago than I care to remember.

But a 308 is battling to get the same kinetic energy as a 270 Win and with 26" barrel 270 tops out at 2950 with 150 grainers, although I have seen just over 3000 with Re 19.

My velocities are based on the point just before accuracy falls off and in bench style rifles. Such rifles usually maintain accuracy to higher pressures than the "average" rifle.

With a 24" barrel I would rate a 308 as 2800 "plus" with 150 grain bullets and the "plus" would not be much

Just think about Re 15 in the 375 I have changed my mind about 308 with 150 grainers. I don't think you would get enough in.

This load posted above by Ackley Improved User from Nosler manual "They post 2958 fps using 46 grs of Re15" I think is bullshit.

A question: of those mentioned here, which 338 cartridge would be likely to make the smallest group at 300 yds, and why?

Accuracy in .338" is probably not an issue of cartridge design, especially for accuracy and group size necessary for hunting (e.g., 1.5 MOA, < 1 MOA, <1/2MOA). Cartridge design and accuracy is something more related to benchers shooting than hunting cartridges.

Consider the 308Win and 30-06. There is a general consensus that the 308 is more balanced and inherently accurate than the 30-06, but any advantage is in the neighborhood of 0.1" and not 1.0". And many long range matches have been done with such powder burners as a 300WinMag. If we now extrapolate to the .338" diameter, we might expect that a 0.1" advantage might possibly exist for the 338WM over a 340 Weatherby or Lapua. However, the construction of the individual rifle will certainly trump any possible design advantage. Furthermore, the Lapua itself has a relatively short stack compared to H&H based cartridges (like the 340Weatherby) so the Lapua, too, may be inherently accurate. The newer 338 Norma has an even shorter stack than the Lapua and might also get honorable mention.

The bottom line is that rifle construction and shooting ability are the determining constraints here, not cartridge design.

quote:

Originally posted by gwahir:
A question: of those mentioned here, which 338 cartridge would be likely to make the smallest group at 300 yds, and why?

Staying inside of 300? Why bother with the big 338s........unless for pure energy.

.