quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
30/06-Long Live the King

The other best answer.

Another item to notice is how the inherently well-balanced and versatile cartridges will spawn a plethora of cartridges in the same bore, a little smaller or a little larger.

The 30-06 does well from this appraisal, being surrounded by the likes of 308 and the multiple 300 magnums. That multiplicity says that many have looked for a little more than the 308/30-06 velicity window. Again, for 99+% of hunting 0-400 yard, that velocity may not be needed, which leads me to wonder if they may have been better served with a smidjin more diameter and weight.

The 338WM has also spawned a number of rounds on both sides. The Federal and 338/06 are a little less, while the 338 Weatherby/PRC/Nosler up to the RUM, Lapua, and 338/378, also show a desire by some for more velocity. That niche formed by the 338WinMag--338PRC (mono-bullets 200-210gn around 2950-3000, 225gn around 2800-2900, 250gn around 2650-2800) would seem to cover 99% of normal hunting needs for deer/elk/moose/bear in NA.

I just bought a 375 HH, sooo

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I just bought a 375 HH, sooo

Sooo . . . it, too, is a great caliber.

So, it's settled then.

The 35 Whelen. Right?

It is a draw. Wink.

The question is how many tied for first place?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
It is a draw. Wink.

The question is how many tied for first place?

Best answer yet.

I admit the 375 HH is a classy classic that can do DG but how much of our hunting is DG? If I was hunting DG I would want a larger cartridge and this is a medium bore thread. I agree that the 375 should be a medium though. If I wanted to go full retard Africa Medium Bore it would be a 350 Rigby but the 35 Whalen has advantages over the 350 Rigby. The two medium bore carts that are in the running for me are the 35 Whelen with a 1 in 10 twist and the 257 Roberts with an honorable newcomer mention to the 6.5 CM that I agree has its own advantages over the Roberts and Whelen. Give me a 35 Whelen in a lever action, pump action, semi auto and a bolt action please.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

I admit the 375 HH is a classy classic that can do DG but how much of our hunting is DG?

I reckon very few 375s are bought and used for big animals.

I've shot a number of the tiny ten with a 375 H&H and solids. Most were animals of opportunity at the time. I've also shot a number of the smaller cats the same way while DG hunting, such as African wildcat, civet, genet-yes I said genet. Even bushbuck, kudu, sable, baboon, eland, impala, etc. while DG hunting in the Zambezi Valley, the BVC, and in other parts of Zimbabwe. I've shot buffalo, lion, rhino, leopard, hippo, crocodile and elephant with the 375 H&H. It works for me.

I have shot turkeys with open sighted 375 Ruger and a Whitetail.

Nothing wrong with the 375 for all that walks, as long as you realize it isn't a must in the lower 48.. I have a 375 Ruger and I love it, its light at 7.5 lbs naked and I will hunt elk with it as I have with my 375 H&H..I like the .338 Win just as well and the 30-06 is my all time favorite when push comes to shove..There is no best, just favorites like the 7x57 and I would hunt the world with that.

I am going to hunt this year including elk with a 35 Whelen.

Ray, I am with you. The 7x57 suits me fine for what I hunt or can afford to hunt.

Good Morning Jerry Fisk,

The 7x57 stands among the greatest cartridges of all time.

.284 caliber bullets have magical sectional density. 175 grain .284 caliber bullets have a long rap sheet for big game animal penetration, many rap sheet entries for culling elephants.

It's all about what a bullet destroys, not diameter of a bullet.

With all of the mega magnums taking over big game hunting, this old elk hunter's saying has to be obsolete: "A .243 Win in the boiler room is a whole lot better than an '06 to the guts."

I don't think that saying is obsolete ;-)

Your 7x57 will kill all North American big game just as dead as any mega magnum, and there's only on degree of dead and that's dead.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I am going to hunt this year including elk with a 35 Whelen.

Excellent choice!

I like my 25.06 or 280 Rem. for Antelope or Deer.

I like my 35 Whelen for Elk or Moose.

YMMV

Some old guy use to use this, you may have heard of him:

"Karamoja" Bell and his .275 Rigby

Do I need to say more?

It's hard to beat the 7X57 (AKA 275 Rigby)

This thread has missed the point when it comes to magnums, that said Im not a magnum person under most circumstances but they serve a very important purpose and its not killing power, penetration, cross section etc, etc. ITS LONG RANGE CAPABILITIES and there are areas where Ive hunted that I fell require their use, The Kalahari comes to mind and some sheep areas in the world wherein I would opt for a 300 Wby at least.. but for 99% of my hunting today Id go with my 7x57, with its 2.5X Leupold Alaskan scope or my fwt pre 64 mod. 70 30-06, my pet deer elk, Moose and all African PG rifles and that include Eland. Ive shot larger game with both on a couple of occasions as that's all I had at the time and circumstances, not recommended but to make a point they got me by!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
This thread has missed the point when it comes to magnums, that said Im not a magnum person under most circumstances but they serve a very important purpose and its not killing power, penetration, cross section etc, etc. ITS LONG RANGE CAPABILITIES and there are areas where Ive hunted that I fell require their use, The Kalahari comes to mind and some sheep areas in the world wherein I would opt for a 300 Wby at least.. but for 99% of my hunting today Id go with my 7x57, with its 2.5X Leupold Alaskan scope or my fwt pre 64 mod. 70 30-06, my pet deer elk, Moose and all African PG rifles and that include Eland. Ive shot larger game with both on a couple of occasions as that's all I had at the time and circumstances, not recommended but to make a point they got me by!

Ray, I fully agree with the sentiments in your post. Thank you.

Allow me to tighten up a couple of areas, assuming 0-500 yards as the max scope of normal hunting. (I typically use 0-400 as normal range.)

When it comes to big game with 270, 7x57, 280, 30-06, the capacities up to and including the 06 are certainly adequate to 400 yards and can be pushed to 500, especially with a rangefinder. The 7x57 might be the least capable for distance of the four mentioned here. But it can certainly be pushed well over 300 yards, and that is already a long way. All four would make excellent medium cartridges, to which we might add the 308 and 708.

However, as we rise above 30 caliber, we need a little more capacity to fill that niche of "0-400, yea 500." At 338 I would invoke a normal need for magnum capacity and would recommend a 338WinMag for elk/moose at 0-500. The 338-06 can cover 0-300 just fine, even the 338Fed can be pushed 0-300, but at 300-500 it would be prudent to just start out with the WinMag.

I shoot 160 accubonds in the marked 275 Rigby bolt gun cause I had the rifling set for the 160/175 grain the single shot stalker marked 7x57 is set up for 140.

Anyone have one?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.275_No_2_Magnum

Don't underestimate the 7X57; remember in the Boer Wars the Africaaners were nailing the British @ 800 yds plus with that calibre.

Modern technology is reducing the "need" for high velocities, but the margin for error will always be greater. Error in terms of range estimation and reading the wind, not in terms of shot placement.

Personally, I sincerely hope that I will always be able to get the rifle I need for the job in hand, rather than having to use one rifle for everything. Life's more interesting that way.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I am going to hunt this year including elk with a 35 Whelen.

Excellent choice!

I like my 25.06 or 280 Rem. for Antelope or Deer.

I like my 35 Whelen for Elk or Moose.

YMMV

This is my plan with a slight variation. I’m going with a 280 AI for antelope/deer/sheep. It shoots just as flat as the 25-06, so best of both worlds. My 35 Whelen is for animals 300 lbs and up.

quote:

Originally posted by Tex84:

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I am going to hunt this year including elk with a 35 Whelen.

Excellent choice!

I like my 25.06 or 280 Rem. for Antelope or Deer.

I like my 35 Whelen for Elk or Moose.

YMMV

This is my plan with a slight variation. I’m going with a 280 AI for antelope/deer/sheep. It shoots just as flat as the 25-06, so best of both worlds. My 35 Whelen is for animals 300 lbs and up.

I'm going to buy one of those new Ruger 280AI Africans that came out this year. See if I like it any better than my current Ruger Hawkeye 280 Rem.

Even if it's not that much better, I'd still like to have a Ruger African in a 28 caliber.

I say in an with history 30/06

Probably used in great numbers-- 338 win mag

I say designed--33 Nosler

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Let stir the pot, The 318 Wesley Richards is nothing more than a 30-06 with 220 gr. bullets. Its full of nostalgia, and BS...

Since the 318 was made famous and infamous in Africa before WWII, I would really like to own one and see it resurrected. It seems cool, and proved it’s usefulness, for sure. However, Ray seems to be right. If the 318 had some special sauce, it would have survived. The original 318 was too long for the standard Mauser action without significant action opening. In contrast, the 9.3x62 suffered for a while after the war because of a lack of ammo, but since it was not overly long, not proprietary, and was much more popular to begin with, it fought its way back to have some commercial viability (long live the 9.3x62!). Finn Aagard said he didn’t notice a significant difference in performance between the 375 and the heavy ‘06 on game up to about 700lbs. I really don’t consider the ‘06 in the medium bore category, but Ray’s logic certainly seems to hold up.

[/QUOTE]I really don’t consider the ‘06 in the medium bore category, but Ray’s logic certainly seems to hold up.[/QUOTE]

In NA big game hunting, I consider the 30.06 a medium bore. In Africa, I consider it a small bore, as in the classic (3) rifle battery of a small, medium and heavy bore like a 30.06, 375 & 458.

To me, what puts the 30.06 sometimes into the medium category, is the 200 & 220 gr. bullet weights, which the next smallest caliber (28) cannot reach (175 being the 'heavy'). So, I see what Ray is saying and I agree with him.

What the 30.06 cannot do is shoot 250, 280, & 310gr. bullets like a 35 Whelen can. It, and the 33s also cannot shoot .358 caliber bullets! I will always choose a larger caliber for making bigger holes, and a round that will also shoot heavier bullets, if the game is large enough. I do understand that large game animals can be taken nicely with smaller calibers, as two of my lady friends hunt Elk with a 25.06. It can certainly be done! But it's just not my choice. I know PHs and others who have taken Buffalo in Africa with a 30.06 and I'm sure they've been taken with a 7mm or smaller as well. But it's just not my choice.

As Tanzan has stated, if I were hunting Elk or Moose at 500+ yards, I would choose my 338WM. However, I do not hunt at those ranges, usually 300 or less (except Pronghorn), so as Ray suggested and Tanzan confirmed, I don't really need a magnum. The 30.06 case is perfect for so many hunts for me: 25.06, 280 Rem., 30.06, 338.06 and 35 Whelen. Of those, the one that makes the biggest holes and shoots the heaviest bullets is the 35 Whelen!

So, for me, it's settled. The 35 Whelen.

I will admit two things:

One, the 9.3x62 is better yet: bigger holes, heavier bullets, in a 30.06 size case.

And two, I HAVE hunted with my 30.06 in NA & Africa, and if I were allowed but only one cartridge in this 30.06 family of rounds, my choice would be the 30.06, due to it's tremendous versatility: 55 gr. to 220 gr. I would not worry about hunting Pronghorns to my furthest shot on them so far, 361 yds., nor hunting Elk or Moose. What a great all-round cartridge.

But, as I have many rifles, I choose smaller rounds for Pronghorns and Deer, and bigger rounds for Elk and Moose.

But that's just me and my personal preferences, and not intended to be thrust upon anyone else...

Lots of excellent cartridges mentioned in this thread.

As for long range cartridges, the .308 Win dominated Camp Perry. Before that, it was the '06. The 7.62 is a US military sniper cartridge capable of killing bad guys beyond a 1000 yards.

I am not magnum averse. In fact, I am not averse to any cartridge. I'll always defend any hunter's rifle/cartridge choice as long as it's suitable for game hunted (I wouldn't support a hunter using a .22 Hornet on elk). I own a 7MM Rem Mag. I used to own a .338 Win Mag. Both are excellent cartridges. But I didn't need a .338 Win Mag to do what my 7MM Rem Mag is more than capable of doing.

More than anything, my choice of hunting rifle has been influenced by reality. It takes me days to get used to Rocky Mountain elevation. I have always tried to stay in good shape for Rocky Mountain hunting season. I'm increasing my cardio to 10 miles at day. But that's at sea level, or darn close to it. Base camps at 7000' elevation and higher, and I'm sucking air for a few days. Trekking over high ridges (9000' and higher) carrying a heavy rifle gets old in a hurry.

I am not recoil shy. I've fired big cartridges. I do know from experience and from watching other bench shooters that we all have recoil thresholds. I've seen a very studly dude call it after less than a box of .300 Win Mag rounds out of what looked to be an approx 8-to-9 pound rifle. Excessive recoil causes flinches. Flinches diminish accuracy. Diminished accuracy screws with confidence. Confidence and skill kills big game.

I had to put on a lot of miles on my odometer before I figured out that I could be very happy with a lightweight .308 Win carbine. But I ain't buying another rifle. I know that either of my .270 Win rifles will kill all North American big game. My Sako 7MM Rem Mag weighs every ounce of 10 pounds, maybe closer to 11. My Sako .270 weighs just over 8 pounds. My Model 700 .270 Win is about a pound lighter than my Sako .270 Win. While my Sako rifles are slightly more accurate, my 45+ year-old Model 700 .270 Win is unbelievably accurate, like <.5" at a hundred. I'd post a photo of a group I fired if I could figure out how. All three rounds were touching. I used 60 grains of H4831 and 130 grain GameKings. I had a Rocky Mountain mule deer tag that season. That load will drop bucks in their tracks.

For me, an accurate, lightweight rifle is my choice. A sandwich is heavy at high altitude. I'll take a lightweight rifle chambered for a cartridge suitable for big game hunted every single time. However, I do know that what's right for me might be all wrong for another.

Choice of cartridges is mostly personal preference as long as its suitable for humane kills. Any cartridge that will destroy a big game animal's heart and/or lungs is suitable. Nothing living remains in that condition without topside oxygenated blood flow. Hence, if a suitable bullet can break a stout rib to reach and destroy necessary parts for sustaining life, the rest is academic and preference. If a hunter believes he needs a 15 pound .338 Rem Ultra Mag to tag a bull elk, I'd be far outta line to tell him otherwise. He knows what he needs, not I. As for me, a 150 grain Partition fried outta my .270 Win will kill everything in North America as long as I do my part, and that part is to assure my bullet terminates any big game animal's topside oxygenated blood flow.

Anecdote: I have often thought about entering a 1000 yard competition with my stock Sako AV 7MM Rem Mag. I had a friend who was a CA game warden. He's now in Heaven. He was an accomplished big game hunter. He had a few custom made rifles. He told me that not one of his custom made rifles was as accurate as my Sako AV 7MM Rem Mag. He gave me valuable advice: never sell a shooter (extremely accurate) rifle. Some 25 years ago, when I bought my 7MM Rem Mag, I bought a Leupold Vari-X II 4x12x40 AO scope for it. I got very lucky with that outfit. It'll shoot groups so tiny that I've been accused of exaggerating...until accusers saw me shoot it. I'd enter a 1000 yard competition with it just to see if a stock hunting rifle could compete with tricked out rifles costing many thousands of dollars.

My advice is to hunt with your favorite rifle and cartridge combo. Anyone's opinion is just that. Use what's right for you, not what another tries to tell you is right for you. I might add that if your safaris require scaling high ridges of the Rockies, give some consideration to weight. From my experience, weight at disappearing oxygen altitude is not fun.

It takes all the fun out of it when someone makes too much sense.

Nice post EMP3!

My initial response would be the 7x57 and/or 30-06, but on second thoughts the perfect medium bore is probably the 7x64 or its American cousin the 280 Rem.

The 7x64 is mild on the shoulder like 7x57, but carries all the authority of the 30-06. And its not too big for small game like Roe, but still perfectly capable on large Moose, big deer, plains game etc. Its good in the woods, but with a lighter bullet very flat shooting up in the mountains.

I couldn't agree more with EMP3 on the light weight rifle appreciation.

With the reduced weight of my SS/syn Ruger Hawkeye in 35 Whelen, and the reduced recoil as well, both compared to my 338WM with longer barrels and heavier contours, I much prefer the 35 over the 338 for Elk and Moose hunting. I posted the picture of my Moose I took last year along with my 35 Whelen here. I have never taken any Elk or Moose over 300 yards, so I don't feel the need for magnums. I have taken Elk with my 338WM, and it's never failed me. Great round! But my 35 Whelen has performed just as well, so with it's lighter weight and recoil, I have switched over to using it.

Light weight rifles are a joy to carry and use in the mountains!!...as long as the cartridge chosen is up to the task (I agree, no 22 hornets for Elk or Moose. Funny, I just bought a Ruger No.1 in 22 Hornet today!).

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
It takes all the fun out of it when someone makes too much sense.

Nice post EMP3!

Thanks so much, Cougarz.

I wish you a successful 2020 season.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:
I couldn't agree more with EMP3 on the light weight rifle appreciation.

With the reduced weight of my SS/syn Ruger Hawkeye in 35 Whelen, and the reduced recoil as well, both compared to my 338WM with longer barrels and heavier contours, I much prefer the 35 over the 338 for Elk and Moose hunting. I posted the picture of my Moose I took last year along with my 35 Whelen here. I have never taken any Elk or Moose over 300 yards, so I don't feel the need for magnums. I have taken Elk with my 338WM, and it's never failed me. Great round! But my 35 Whelen has performed just as well, so with it's lighter weight and recoil, I have switched over to using it.

Light weight rifles are a joy to carry and use in the mountains!!...as long as the cartridge chosen is up to the task (I agree, no 22 hornets for Elk or Moose. Funny, I just bought a Ruger No.1 in 22 Hornet today!).

Thanks so much surefire7, I appreciate it.

The .35 Whelen is a formidable cartridge capable of easily taking all North American big game.

There are so many perfect big game cartridges that picking one as best is impossible. Hence, we rely upon hunters' knowledge and expertise to pick what's right for them.

quote:

Light weight rifles are a joy to carry and use in the mountains!!...as long as the cartridge chosen is up to the task

Yes, I am looking at my grandkids' 308 Win in a 5.5 lb. Kimber for deer hunting in place of a trusted 338WM. The Kimber is definitely nicer to carry than the Ruger Hawkeye 338. Accuracy will be the decider, since a deer rifle in California needs to be 400 yards capable with confidence.

My new 375 HH Winchester Alaskan will be here Monday.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Why isn’t the 6.5x57 more popular here?

Maybe because the 7x57, 7-08 and 270 already exist and because the 6.5mm is starting to get a little skinny for best medium bore, 1 1/3 caliber below 270.

I like the 6.5x57mm. I have one. And it's very popular in Europe and the UK. But it's no .30-06, and neither is anything else!

I think in fact all are of one mind with minor changes..

But Ive changed my thinking drastically If only one gun it would be the 7x57 with my handloads and I would kill all the beasts of the world, write a book about it and be famous just like Daryhimple Bell!! ( I know I misspelled his first name, forgot hid middle name)but got the last part right.

BTW my 7x57 is a Ruger 77 fwt. complete with a face lift and a schnable forend with a muzzle loader type cross bolt in the forearm and side panels by RJ Renner, 23 inch barrel, long throat and and magazine, iron sights, all the bells and whistles, I bought second hand and its shoots fantastic, another keeper (promis e)..

waterrat--I agree that is more gun than needed for that Boone and Crockett tundra you are pictured with.