I did a lot of research on this.

I wanted a rifle for any non DG critter at any (reasonable) distance. As a result I am getting a .300 RUM built.

For DG I am set. Have a .375 H&H, .416 and .458 B&M and a .500 MDM. Though this year most likely my PG rifle will be .375 H&H with 300 grain TSXs.

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:
I did a lot of research on this.

I wanted a rifle for any non DG critter at any (reasonable) distance. As a result I am getting a .300 RUM built.

For DG I am set. Have a .375 H&H, .416 and .458 B&M and a .500 MDM. Though this year most likely my PG rifle will be .375 H&H with 300 grain TSXs.

Those will work. Even a 375 Ruger if you wanted to avoid Michael's dreaded H&H.

416 Tanzan,
Now that's funny!!!

Before we post 5 pages, lets decide where the cut off is between small bore, medium bore and big bore and oh yeah, the great big bore!!!..Thats as old a discussion as the 270 vs. the 30-06, and like that its never been officially decided in the higher courts!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
416 Tanzan,
Now that's funny!!!

Before we post 5 pages, lets decide where the cut off is between small bore, medium bore and big bore and oh yeah, the great big bore!!!..Thats as old a discussion as the 270 vs. the 30-06, and like that its never been officially decided in the higher courts!

What a predictable thread! 5 pages! Cool. Hard to answer a question when you can't even get agreement on the underlying definition.

When I wanted the "best" one-size fits all rifle for N. America (and most of the world) I had a hard time finding fault the the great Wilhelm Brenneke's conclusion in the early 20th century that the "perfect" best balanced combination of rifle, cartridge case and bore diameter was the M98 Mauser, the U.S. 30-06 case and the 8mm bore. Viola! the 8x64 Brenneke was born. 8x64 Brenneke chambered rifles are hard to find, so I built my M98 chambered in 8mm-06. It's my "Jedi Rifle". Wouldn't trade it or sell it. It's not just the chambering, it's the whole package. Best? Depends on your backstory. User discretion advised. Your mileage may vary. I'm still looking for that elusive 8x64 Brenneke rifle. Good hunting!
Steve

If you read the thread, you would realize that the 35 Whelen was the rifle being handed to Adam in the Sistine Chapel till the anti gun Catholic Church erased it.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve up North:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
416 Tanzan,
Now that's funny!!!

Before we post 5 pages, lets decide where the cut off is between small bore, medium bore and big bore and oh yeah, the great big bore!!!..Thats as old a discussion as the 270 vs. the 30-06, and like that its never been officially decided in the higher courts!

What a predictable thread! 5 pages! Cool. Hard to answer a question when you can't even get agreement on the underlying definition.

When I wanted the "best" one-size fits all rifle for N. America (and most of the world) I had a hard time finding fault the the great Wilhelm Brenneke's conclusion in the early 20th century that the "perfect" best balanced combination of rifle, cartridge case and bore diameter was the M98 Mauser, the U.S. 30-06 case and the 8mm bore. Viola! the 8x64 Brenneke was born. 8x64 Brenneke chambered rifles are hard to find, so I built my M98 chambered in 8mm-06. It's my "Jedi Rifle". Wouldn't trade it or sell it. It's not just the chambering, it's the whole package. Best? Depends on your backstory. User discretion advised. Your mileage may vary. I'm still looking for that elusive 8x64 Brenneke rifle. Good hunting!
Steve

338 Win Mag / 340 Wea Mag.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
338 Win Mag / 340 Wea Mag.

EZ

This!

30/06-Long Live the King

[QUOTE]Originally posted by boom stick:
If you read the thread, you would realize that the 35 Whelen was the rifle being handed to Adam in the Sistine Chapel till the anti gun Catholic Church erased it.

[QUOTE]

Amen Boomie!

tt

I did a one shot kill on a Nilgai using a 7x57 with 160 grain accubond. The proper bullet was key.

quote:

The proper bullet was key

Along with proper placement.

Never accepted the concept of a medium bore from 6mm to 375! the bottom end is not comparable to the top!

I prefer to think of center fire rifles as:

Small bore - .17 to .25
Medium bore - 6.5mm to 8mm
Mid bore .338 -.375
With big bore starting at .4

best small bore is the 223 Rem
best medium bore is the 30-06
best mid bore is 9,3x62
best big bore is 458 Win

If you can't cover every center fire hunting situation with 4 bolt action rifles
in these cartridges it NOT because of the rifles or cartridges!

PS: However I would prefer a double rifle for a big bore, which would change the cartridge to 470NE

Ive been trying to decide which I like best the 9.3x62 or the 375 H&H, for most of my 85 years, todate I still don't know..I know I love my 30-06 and my 7x57 but again can't decide..I don't even want to know anymore...and if I did decide it would only be temporarily..

I admit, I haven't read all 5 pages, but one that seems to have been missed completely is the .318 Westley Richards.

Personally though (and from a purely African perspective), I feel that if dangerous game is in the mix, then anything smaller than say 9.3 x 74R/9.3 x 62 is just too small (and even those are marginal), and if dangerous game is NOT in the mix, then one doesn't really need anything more than a 7mm.

My own favorite for normal game is the 7 x 57, but I can understand that people who shoot far most of the time may want something a bit hotter.

If dangerous game is in the mix, I would prefer a 450-400 (in a single shot or double) or a .404 Jeffery if it has to have a bolt.

The .318 express was mentioned twice in the course of this post, I like it and use it regularly. I remember many many years ago, I read a book by Brad Angier (The Master Backwoodsman?) and he wrote that he could hike the entire North American continent with a 30/06 with 220 grain ammo and never feel under-armed. There is a lot of truth in that statement, and I am not an 06 user myself.

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
Medium bore a already defined by the forum name :-) From The 27 To 366 Caliber Rifles.

So the in between point is 312 . So lets say 8mm. Mauser had it right

I think Rich has correctly nailed the correct definition for this particular forum and also its middle point. However, whether that has to be the 'best' is another matter. Perhaps some 8mm magnum could claim the prize.

Considering matters like power, choice of rifles, bullet weights and availability of cartridges in the boonies, though, the 338WM and 9.3x62 would have an edge.

Sambarman, yes, the 8mm would seem to land right in the middle of "medium bore" and the 8x57 has an honorable history.

Practically speaking, that leads to two obvious choices for people, on each side of 8.1 mm:
(1) the venerable 30-06 Springfield, and
(2) the tried and true 338 Winchester Magnum.

For those who mainly hunt deer 0-400 yards, with an occasional foray for something larger, the 30-06 would suffice.

For those who hunt where dangerous game may lurk, the 338WM becomes a more obvious choice. The 338WM works great on deer 0-400 yards (dropped a nice little California deer at 302 yards 18 months ago), and the 338 is a bit more reliable for plains game, elk, and big bear. Plus, I would rather shoot a buffalo, lion, or bear with a 338 than a 30-06. This made the 338 WinMag the "best medium bore ever" for me and my family. We are friends with "30-06 families," too.

I think that Sambarman might agree, judging from his name handle.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
Medium bore a already defined by the forum name :-) From The 27 To 366 Caliber Rifles.

So the in between point is 312 . So lets say 8mm. Mauser had it right

I think Rich has correctly nailed the correct definition for this particular forum and also its middle point. However, whether that has to be the 'best' is another matter. Perhaps some 8mm magnum could claim the prize.

Considering matters like power, choice of rifles, bullet weights and availability of cartridges in the boonies, though, the 338WM and 9.3x62 would have an edge.

Just spending a little time. Can't argue with most of what's posted. Concur with Samberman338 that an "8mm magnum could claim the prize." Have owned and used an 8x68S for many years. Used several flavors of 300 mag plus 338 but always end up concluding that, with an 8x68S, I really have no need and no desire for a 300 or 338 (which is odd because I have desires for all kinds of rifles/chamberings). Neither offers anything the 8x68S doesn't provide. Good hunting!
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Steve up North:
I'm still looking for that elusive 8x64 Brenneke rifle.
Steve

I’m not sure whether you are aware, but Walther Lothar has the 8x64 Brenneke as an option in their range of ‘98 pre-fit barrels. You can option up length, profile, flutes etc etc.

A friend of mine went that route and has been very pleased with the outcome. He uses 160 gr Barnes TTSX on everything. Loaded ammo is available from S&B and the dies were a special order from RCBS.

quote:

Originally posted by JFE:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve up North:
I'm still looking for that elusive 8x64 Brenneke rifle.
Steve

I’m not sure whether you are aware, but Walther Lothar has the 8x64 Brenneke as an option in their range of ‘98 pre-fit barrels. You can option up length, profile, flutes etc etc.

A friend of mine went that route and has been very pleased with the outcome. He uses 160 gr Barnes TTSX on everything. Loaded ammo is available from S&B and the dies were a special order from RCBS.

Thanks!

Steve

I could probably make a stronger case for the 338 than any others. I have had a few but only ever used them at the range. For whatever reason I have always gravitated to the 375 and the 270 and 30 bore size. I would take a 300 Winchester everyday over a 338 and 300 Wby over a 340 Wby every time.

Mike,
Why would you take a 300 Win mag over a .338 Win? Agreed both are fine, but I think I prefer the .338 Win.by a tad. Just curious..

Just get a .338 WinMag and be done with it. You won’t find a better medium bore caliber. And, it’s easier to shoot than any of the souped up magnums like RUM’s or even some of the 300 mags.

Emotional attachment can wreak havoc on knowledge.

Every year, the largest beasts in North America are reduced to table fare by arrows leaving stings at ~300 FPS.

When I was a teenager and looking for a deer hunting rifle, older and experienced hunters steered to a .270 Win.Their rationale was the '06 was too much gun for a young hunter. I still have that Model 700. It's as accurate as the day I bought it, and it kills big game very dead. I've added a Sako AV .270 Win, but my sentimental favorite is my Model 700.

While I was still working off emotion and wanting to become a bona fide elk hunter, I knew I needed a magnum. After researching elk rifles, I bought a 7MM Rem Mag, a cartridge that was introduced as a long range elk rifle. It will kill the largest, toughest bull elk that's ever wandered the Western US. My largest is on wall in my home. One 160 grain Partition, through-and-through his massive chest taking out lot of its heart upon exiting, and he was dead before he hit dirt.

I was hit upside my noggin with a cast iron epiphany. I remembered high school biology, amazing in itself because that might of been all I've remembered from my six years' high school that I care to divulge here. Nothing living remains in that condition without topside oxygenated blood flow. Decommission any big game animal's oxygenated blood pumping apparatus, and it will hit dirt. What destroys a big game animal's heart and/or lungs is immaterial. An elk ain't gonna know whether a .30-30 Win or a mega-magnum stopped its topside oxygenated blood flow. In fact, it won't know it's dead.

My sentimental favorite is the .270 Win. Intellectually, .284 caliber bullets have what might be best sectional density. Knowledge is .30-'06 Gov't has killed every big game animal that walks Earth. If I were approaching this question using only knowledge, I'd go with the '06. In fact, after the US Army came out with the '06, there was no need to add to the North American big game cartridge line-up. I know our Northern brethren would argue that the .303 British would top the list since a hunter used one to kill North America's B&C record Yukon moose. Regardless, only a couple or a few big game cartridges would have made dull campfires.

Since I've never seen anyone hunt anything the Western US with a 220 grain bullet out of any .308 caliber rifle, if I were given a do-over, I could put a .308 Win carbine to good use on all North American big game animals. The 100 FPS differential between it an the '06 is immaterial. I do know that I'm long pas done carrying heavy rifles up-and-down high ridges of the Rockies.

However, since I'm not immune from emotion, I'll stick with the .270 Win. I don't want to buy another rifle since I have all I need to kill everything I want to hunt. In fact, from here on out, I'm using my much easier to carry .270 Win for all North American big game hunting. It will kill the biggest elk that's ever lived as long as I put a suitable bullet where it needs to go. It will kill elk and everything else just as dead as any mega-magnum.

If I were living in Alaska where I might routinely run in to griz, I'd opt for an 1895 chambered for .45/70 Gov't with hand loaded ammo. Loaded properly, a .45/70 Gov't will kill everything that walks Earth. The downside is a max loaded .45/70 Gov't round has gruesome, painful recoil.

I have an Aussie friend who wants to get back in to big game hunting. He's the prototypical Down Under man's man who knows no fear. Like Robbie Maddison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gLrXvijkRg He thrives on adrenaline rushes. He has surfed in shark waters of Australia and So Cal. He knows I'm a big game hunter. He wants to try a Rocky Mountain mule deer hunt. He's in the market for a big game rifle. He asked for my opinion. I asked about his Australian hunting experience. He's killed all of Australia's big game. He knows more than basics. He told me he wanted a .243 Win. He said it's an extremely popular cartridge Down Under, and it'll routinely kills water buffalo (2X size of Rocky Mountain bull elk) https://biggamehuntingadventur...ter-buffalo-hunting/. He's confident that he could reliably kill Rocky Mountain bull elk with a .243 Win. Based upon his hunting experience, he told me big game hunting is a sport of knowledge and skill: knowledge of animal hunted, knowledge and interpretation of signs as indicators of patterns that facilitate accurate predictions of animal movement, stalking skill, and skill placing a bullet as to leave no doubt about outcome.

When assessed in terms of context of origin, it makes sense that Aussie men have excess of confidence.

The best is the next one I buy.

Let stir the pot, The 318 Wesley Richards is nothing more than a 30-06 with 220 gr. bullets. Its full of nostalgia, and BS...

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
The best is the next one I buy.

Well, I bought a 308Win Kimber Hunter for the grandkids in 2018. Great, great little rifle, still in California.
But the doesn't mean that it would replace an accurate 338WM for "all around do it all, in season and out of season."

Good Morning 416 Tanzan,

The .308 Win is an excellent big game cartridge. It gets it done far more efficiently and effectively than one would think possible.

If I have a .308 Win carbine, I wouldn't need another rifle for North American big game.

I'm developing a substantial disliking for heavy rifles that don't kill big game any deader than a lightweight .308 Win carbine. I could make it work with a 7MM-08 Rem.

I agree with you Tarzan. I was trying to make a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Let stir the pot, The 318 Wesley Richards is nothing more than a 30-06 with 220 gr. bullets. Its full of nostalgia, and BS...

I'll bite...

I would have thought it's more likely to be an 8mm Mauser with 250gr bullets?

Considering that the .318 has the same bullet diameter as the 8mm, and was probably introduced just two years after the .30-06, I would think it's unlikely it was developed from the .30-06.

As somebody who has always liked heavy-for-caliber bullets, I guess it's natural that the .318 would appeal to me more than the 8mm. But I guess history has proven me wrong, since 8mm is still around and .318 isn't?

Understood, Heym. But more discussions are fun, too.

Mine was another consideration that often arises. And that Kimber is soooo light that I could be enticed to walk around with it in NA rather than my nice little 338.

Also, I just found a nice shooting bullet, Lehigh 152 grain "Controlled Chaos." It is all copper that throws out nose petals while a flat-nose plows deep and presumably exits. The price on these magic bullets is $0.64/bullet. It is under MOA at just over 2900fps, but it does require a rather compressed Varget load.

Be safe,
TaNZAN

The .318 Westley Richards has been mentioned several times in this thread. From what I've read, it used bullets of .330" diameter. If true, I'm curious about how you guys load for it. Do you use factory rounds or do you handload for it, and, if the latter, are there .330" bullets available? And what about brass?

The 338-9,3x62 seems like a better modernized 318 WR.

The 318 is just nibbling around the edges of what the 35 Whelen does so well.

quote:

Originally posted by South Pender:
The .318 Westley Richards has been mentioned several times in this thread. From what I've read, it used bullets of .330" diameter. If true, I'm curious about how you guys load for it. Do you use factory rounds or do you handload for it, and, if the latter, are there .330" bullets available? And what about brass?

'06 for lower 48. Africa .375 H&H. Saying that I've hunted elk with a 7MM Remingtom Magnum and a .338 Winchester Magnum. As far as which one killed the animal in it's tracks, no difference between the "06 and the 7 mag and .338 mag. I'm picky as to when I pull the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Understood, Heym. But more discussions are fun, too.

Mine was another consideration that often arises. And that Kimber is soooo light that I could be enticed to walk around with it in NA rather than my nice little 338.

Also, I just found a nice shooting bullet, Lehigh 152 grain "Controlled Chaos." It is all copper that throws out nose petals while a flat-nose plows deep and presumably exits. The price on these magic bullets is $0.64/bullet. It is under MOA at just over 2900fps, but it does require a rather compressed Varget load.

Be safe,
TaNZAN

Those 375;and 338 Winchester Alskans are good carrying pieces.

August Schuler's 8x68S.

180s at 3100 fps for lighter game;
225s at 2750 or 250s at 2600 for the heavies.

I had one--a Sauer M90 years ago. Great cartridge and easy to reload for, although only RWS brass is available.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Mike,
Why would you take a 300 Win mag over a .338 Win? Agreed both are fine, but I think I prefer the .338 Win.by a tad. Just curious..

Ray,

Just prefer 30 and 375 bore size. I have had 338, 340 and 338/378 just something about 338 that does not do it for me. I am the same with 7mm bore, would take a 270 everyday. Have had 270, 270 Wby and 270/308 Norma.

But as I said I could make a logical argument as the 338 being the best but as you know with calibres/rifles "logic" does not always win. Actually my personal experience and also observing many others is if you get what is logical but don't like it thingss will not be good.

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
It's got to be the 30-06, the do everything cartridge. There's a lot of great ones out there but it has always sold really well and is in worldwide use.

Best answer yet.