How does the 9.3 by 62 mm compare to the 35 Whelen? The 35 Whelen seems to be an outstanding cartridge, feeds through standard actions, shoots a 250 grain bullet at 2500 fps. Mid range trajectory is reasonable.

Is there any real difference in these cartridges out to, lets say, 300 yards?

And I am thinking of light skinned animals, not Water Buffalo or Grizzly bears.

well...yes and no.....the 9.3 enjoys a legal advantage as many African nations recognize it as appropriate for dangerous game.

Further if you happen to be looking at the standard chambering reamer for each at the same time you'll be amazed at the amount of freebore the 9.3 X 62 has.....this freebore may actually contribute as much as 150'/sec advantage over the near-twin the .35 Whelen.

Ammo for either can be hard to find at times but if in Africa you have a far better chance of finding the 9.3 ammo and in North America you have an advantage to find the .35 Whelen.....but not a lot of difference!

no diff in reality only between the ears...

the 35 whelen ai has the same capacity as the 62 the big issue is twist rates. with the same twist rates and troat...twins.

the whelen is hanicaped by the factory guns...stupid or evil remington messed up something good.

And a case might be argued that for thin-skinned game at 300 yards a handloaded 338'06 might be a little better than either.

your selling the Whelen a little short,
Using a published load, I get 2600 fraom a 250 grain speer.
...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
your selling the Whelen a little short,
Using a published load, I get 2600 fraom a 250 grain speer.
...tj3006

Same here in the whelen, and 2800fps+ with the 225gr TSX using Barnes data and recommendation for the XFB.

quote:

the whelen is hanicaped by the factory guns...stupid or evil remington messed up something good.

Just when through a catalog and Remington no longers has the 35 Whelen. As I recall Remington made the 35 Whelen in pump, semi auto, and in the M700. Therefore if I want a 35 Whelen I am going to have to go on the used market.

But, what is the problem with Remington 35 Whelen's? The twist, the reamer?

I would consider the 9,3x62 "superior" to the 35 Whelen, especially so for African use...

However, for use in North America, to inlcude big bears in Alaska, I double any animal, or hunter, could tell the difference, using the proper bullets of course.

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:

quote:

the whelen is hanicaped by the factory guns...stupid or evil remington messed up something good.

Just when through a catalog and Remington no longers has the 35 Whelen. As I recall Remington made the 35 Whelen in pump, semi auto, and in the M700. Therefore if I want a 35 Whelen I am going to have to go on the used market.

But, what is the problem with Remington 35 Whelen's? The twist, the reamer?

i would go custom and use a 1 in 12 twist and throat it for the 280 grain swift a-frames. i talked to the swift guy and he said use the 1 in 12 and keep the bullet off the lands i think he said 20 thou??? i'd have to ask again and get the same lot of brass and a lot of it and have the reamer made off that lot of brass since the 30-06 cases get made usualy 7 thou under spec or use the larger 9,3x66 brass by norma if you want i nice fit chamber. if you reeeely want something special do the ai version and 66 brass and keep the long neck or trim to 2.54. i have what i call the 35 bruin that is a long neck 35 whelen ai that is 2.6" long and is 3.34 with hornady 250's


no custom stuff just use rcbs 35 whelen ai dies and neck/throat i bit deeper.

What the whelen does with 225gr bullet the 9.3 does with 250, and what the whelen does with 250 the 9.3 will do with 286. Either will do just fine for any north american game. I had the whelen built for my dad and he had a 9.3 built for me. They are both good calibers but I have to give the 9.3 the edge with the heavier bullets. Out to 300 yards they are probably equals as far as any game animal is concerned. I shot my moose two years ago at 280 yards with the 9.3 and 286gr partition at 2400fps.

the bear_78...i disagree...i dont think that .008 will have that kind of mechanical advatage all things being equal. increasing the dia by 2% is not a significant enough jump to have any real velocity benefit...if you go up 30 thou maybe like going from the 308 to the 338

there might be a 10 fps advantage but that in reality is unperceivable

The problem with the Whelen is that most American manufacturers handi-capped it with a 1-16" twist rate and 250gr bullets.

Townsend Whelen as well as Elmer Keith used a 275gr bullet. My Whelen has a 1-14" rate but if i was specifying the rate it would have been 1-12" like my BLR in .358win

If i was to use the Whelen in Africa i would use either the 270gr North Fork or the 280gr A-Frame and with either bullets there would be no discernable difference between the 35 or 36.

One important factor not mentioned here is that there are literally dozens of different 358" pistol bullets that can be used in the Whelen for small game or cheap plinking.

35Whelen for me(I'm never going to be hunting Africa). I've had both, felt recoil is less with the 35 Whelen! 225gn TSX's & your set.

I have a Remington Classic in 35 Whelen. I shoot 250 grain Speers with it. If you zero it between 2 and 3 inches high at 100 yards it has a mazimum point blank range of 244 yards and it is still carrying over 2000 ft. lbs. of energy. I have taken two elk with this load and it is a stone killer. However, my rifle has a 1/16 twist and it will not stabilize the heavier bullets.

I also have a 9,3X62 and it will do with a 270 grain bullet what my Whelen does with a 250 grainer and it will shot the 286 grainers as well.

I see the Whelen and 338/06 as competitors with the .338 Winchester. I see the 9,3 as a competitor with the .375.

Why anyone would go through the trouble of building a custom .35 Whelen to shoot heavier bullets when you can do so with an "off the rack" 9,3 is beyond me.

Dave

Have never owned a proper .35 Whelen, have owned a .350 Rem Mag and a .350 Elliott-Express (read .35 Brown-Whelen Improved), and guess what I used in Africa? A 9.3x62mm. The 9.3mm gave me three splat down kills at ranges from 30 yards thru thick brush to 150 yards in the open, Nyala, Waterbuck, and Impala. I am a pure 9.3x62mm convert.

LLS

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:
How does the 9.3 by 62 mm compare to the 35 Whelen? The 35 Whelen seems to be an outstanding cartridge, feeds through standard actions, shoots a 250 grain bullet at 2500 fps. Mid range trajectory is reasonable.

Is there any real difference in these cartridges out to, lets say, 300 yards?
-0
And I am thinking of light skinned animals, not Water Buffalo or Grizzly bears.

If the 9,3x62 was invented in the US it would be called the "36 Whelen Improved". It's a 30-06 case with the neck moved forward and holding a 36 caliber bullet. As such it has a small ballistic advantage when both are loaded to similar pressures.
The real advantage to the 9,3x62 is that it has a very long and distinguished history in Africa and there are lots of great bullets for hunting Nasty stuff available for it. Lapua also makes some fantastic brass for it, I don't know that anyone makes comparable quality brass for the 35 Whelen (The Norma brass is very good too).
Small advantages but I think they add up to the 9,3x62 being a much better round to consider for a world-wide hunting rifle......................DJ

So close it is inconsequential. I have a CZ 9.3x62 and a Custom Remington 700 in 35 Whelen.
With 250gr. bullets they are identical. If you run your 9.3 very much over Whelen velocities, you are running over pressure. There is no free lunch. Outside of Africa there is no difference.

yessssss, but there IS a 320gr heavy for the 9,3, as well as the standard 286gr load, and a 304(?) grain bullet. Light weight for speed...232 from Norma. The Whelen with a 10-12" twist is a G-R-E-A-T rifle for almost anything, the 9,3x62 is just a little more of that certifiable "good thing" and legal in Africa for the Big Five. The only bad thing, they are so close that even I cannot rationalize owning both...so I have the CZ in 9,3x62.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

The real advantage to the 9,3x62 is that it has a very long and distinguished history in Africa and there are lots of great bullets for hunting Nasty stuff available for it. Lapua also makes some fantastic brass for it, I don't know that anyone makes comparable quality brass for the 35 Whelen (The Norma brass is very good too).
Small advantages but I think they add up to the 9,3x62 being a much better round to consider for a world-wide hunting rifle......................DJ

What's the matter with the Remington 35 Whelen brass?

Remington brass is nowhere near as consistant as Lapua brass. It also doesn't last as long. I use tons of Rem brass for some calbers but it's just not as nice a Lapua......................DJ

I too consider the x62 superior to the whelen, Ive owned two of each, but like previously stated I dont think it amounts to a lick of difference to something shot with either. Both cartridges are excellent choices as would be the new 375 ruger , 338/06 etc etc.

The biggest difference is the twist in the .35 Whelen barrels not being suited to heavy bullets and their are a lot of 286-320 grain bullets available for the 9.3x62 which moves it into another class. There really can't be much difference between a 9.3x62 with a 286 at 2500 and the .375 with a 300 at 2500. Sure you can build a Whelen set up to shoot 280 grain bullets, but why go to the trouble when you can buy a 9.3x62?

I started having a 35 Whelen put together on a Mauser action in 1992, and fired it off and on for several years as it came together and was in shootable condition. I kept making changes and improvments, and finally about a year ago it is now in finished condition.

Meanwhile, I discovered the 9.3x62, and had a very good one put together on an FN action, McMillan stock, the whole works, and didn't think much of the 35 Whelen anymore. I thought about getting rid of the 35, but have this tendency to finish something I started.

So, now I can shoot both. The ironic thing is that I have rediscovered the 35 Whelen, and grow more fond of it all the time. The thing I like most about it is how slick it feeds in the Mauser. It just doesn't get any smoother than that. Before building the 9.3, I tried several actions, before choosing the one that fed correctly without any modifications to the rails, etc. I was surprised to find that I tried maybe six different Mauser actions, before finding one that fed the 9.3x62 with no hitches. I am sure that all of them could be made to feed right, but only one was good to go with no modifications. I really couldn't tell the difference just by looking at them, but certainly could when running ammo through. I'm happy with the 9.3, and it feeds very well too. Since then, I have found several actions in my inventory that will feed the 9.3 well, and some not-so-well.

The two rifles I have are different enough to serve two purposes. The 9.3 is full size, and I feel confident with it even at 300 yards, with a 2x7 Leupold. The 35 is a short barreled carbine, with light stock, and light barrel. It's quick handling and very polite to shoot. I put a red dot aimpoint scope on it, mounted by one 30mm ring set forward on the front receiver base. I'm really having fun with that. It's something new for me, have never tried a red dot scope, but I really like it and recommend it for close work. A side benefit is that I put back the original military Mauser flag safety, which I consider the best ever designed, and it works great with the scope set forward out of the way. The great thing about the red dot is that I can keep both eyes open and see the target and the red dot at the same time. It's great, especially in dim light, and I can get pretty good groups (2" or better) out to about 70 yards. The rifle is capable of better than 1" at 100 yards, with the normal scope.

Anyway, I'm happy with both, and think owning one or the other does not mean that a fellow has to give up owing both, or perhaps several of each. I've got a 9.3x57 for redundency, and like it too.

..........If Rem came out with the 35 Whelan in the 798 rifle at a nice trim little weight and a 12 " twist it would be about as good as my CZ 550 Medium FS 9.3x62 .sep it wouldn,t have a set trigger or probably an extra recoil lug under the barrel..,., But . I can,t shoot much for cheap bullets in my 9.3,s If it wasn,t for a couple world wars , the 9.3x62 would be a standard american loading...And that would be pretty darn boreing...What would we have to argue about..?????? Someone found me the perfact gremlin....

Glad to see that you're back Gumboot, and you have your computer up and running. Tell us what you really think about the 35 W and 9.3x62, now that you have your 9.3x64 in the making.

KB

quote:

So, now I can shoot both. The ironic thing is that I have rediscovered the 35 Whelen, and grow more fond of it all the time. The thing I like most about it is how slick it feeds in the Mauser. It just doesn't get any smoother than that.

When Griffin and Howe and Col Whelen came up with the 35 Whelen, the M1903 Springfield was the action about which to build a custom rifle. Perhaps those are too expensive to use as a basis for a custom rifle, but the M1903 feeds 30-06 just perfectly. I would expect that it should do just fine with a cartridge closely based on the 30-06.

I have kinda of wanted to build a 35 Whelen around a M1903 action, but it looks like it would be cheaper to just have a beat up Remington 700 rebarreled.

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:
I have kinda of wanted to build a 35 Whelen around a M1903 action, but it looks like it would be cheaper to just have a beat up Remington 700 rebarreled.

Some folks would compare rebarreling a beat up 700 to putting a new engine in a beat up Yugo. I didn't say that, so don't slam me. I just said "some folks".

Anyway, there are lots of the Mark X and Charles Daly actions floating around, which IMO would be a better choice. Another excellent choice is the Ruger 77 MkII or the old style, SS or CM - your choice. A used Ruger can be bought at very reasonable price. Just look on GunBroker.com, or the local pawn shop or any place selling used guns. A Timney trigger in either and your set.

Good luck on your project.

KB

I couldn't decide which to buy, I wanted a Whelen or a 9.3x62 or a 375 H&H. I missed out on quite a few nice 375's, have never really seen a nice 9.3x62 for sale in Canada and today I made arrangements to buy a new to me 700 CDL 35 Whelen.

I will only get a chance to whack a deer with it this year, but next year moose and elk.

its more of a bullet weight issue... 35sw generally run out at 250gr, main stream bullets, and the 9,3 is nearly 290... at the same speeds.


is there any difference? well, let's REALLY kick over the antpile and ask if there's any real difference in the killing power of the following
280rem, 7 brenneke, 7 remmag, 270 win, 284, 30-06, 300hh, 300 win, 338 win, 338-06, and 35 whelen/9,3x62...

No difference really, I have had both and can atest that they are are both accurate, but my 9.3 likes 286's while my 35 whelen loved 225, must have been the twist, but that is another thread !!!!!


Ed

One of the things I like about shooting the whelen, Is that I don't feel the need to be as fussy.
Meaning with my deer rifles, for example my Roberts. I want my rifle to be very acurate.
I want to be sure I can hit the smaller vitals of a deer at about 400 yards. I will except about 1 inch at 100.
With the whelen shooting 250 grain speers.
I would be happy with an inch and a half.
I use it for elk hunting (bigger kill zone)
and With the whelen I limit myself to 300 yards max.
I really don't want to shoot a deer farther than that either but I might.
I use standard Remington brass and RL-15.
I get 2600 and right at MOA. From a low price custom mauser built with a midway barrel and stock kit. Leupold VX2 2X7.
...tj3006

quote:

How does the 9.3 by 62 mm compare to the 35 Whelen?

The question should read. How does the 35 Whelen compare to the 9.3x62mm?

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
One of the things I like about shooting the whelen, Is that I don't feel the need to be as fussy.
Meaning with my deer rifles, for example my Roberts. I want my rifle to be very acurate.
I want to be sure I can hit the smaller vitals of a deer at about 400 yards. I will except about 1 inch at 100.
With the whelen shooting 250 grain speers.
I would be happy with an inch and a half.
I use it for elk hunting (bigger kill zone)
and With the whelen I limit myself to 300 yards max.
I really don't want to shoot a deer farther than that either but I might.
I use standard Remington brass and RL-15.
I get 2600 and right at MOA. From a low price custom mauser built with a midway barrel and stock kit. Leupold VX2 2X7.
...tj3006

Your getting 2600 fps using RL 15 and a 250 grain Speer out of your 35 Whelen? Is that a chronographed velocity or just a guess? How long is your barrel? Can you PM me your handload? I am shooting 58 grains of RL 15 behind a 250 grain Speer out of the 22 inch barrel of my Remington Classic and as I recall, I was only getting about 2460 fps.

Dave

I believe the 9.3x62 with a 300 gr. bullet at 2400 FPS is better compared to the .375 H&H than to a 35 Whalen..

I get 2520 FPS with a 286 gr. Nosler out of a 26" barrel, and 2700 with a 250 BX, so I suspect the 9.3x62 has the edge...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

is there any difference? well, let's REALLY kick over the antpile and ask if there's any real difference in the killing power of the following
280rem, 7 brenneke, 7 remmag, 270 win, 284, 30-06, 300hh, 300 win, 338 win, 338-06, and 35 whelen/9,3x62...

Dont do that. To many gun discussions end with everybody agreeing on that you could do most with only one nice 30.06

Anybody have any idea what velocities I can expect from 58 grains of Vihtavuori N150 and 200 grain barnes TSX? .35 Whelen of course.

The 9.3 case is NOT a 30-06 case necked up like the Whelen. The 9.3 has a capacity of around 78 grns of water, the 35W has 70.2 according to Quickload. That is a substantial difference; enough to make the 9.3 outclass the 35 with the bullets it was designed for. I have both, plus the 338-06. I agree with the poster that as designed, the 9.3 belongs in the 375 H&H class; the 35W belongs with the 338-06.

I vote for the 9.3X62 too, along with Idaho Sharpshooter & others....
I really like my CZ 'American' in 9.3X62...
the 35 Whelan I used to shoot & it has its virtues, but the 9.3x62 definately has the edge.
Best regards,
Tom from Cody

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
The 9.3 case is NOT a 30-06 case necked up like the Whelen.

The 9,3x62 would be called the 36 Whelen Improved if we invented it here. It fires a .366 diameter bullet in a 30-06 sized case with shoulder moved forward and a shorter neck...............................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
The 9.3 case is NOT a 30-06 case necked up like the Whelen.

The 9,3x62 would be called the 36 Whelen Improved if we invented it here. It fires a .366 diameter bullet in a 30-06 sized case with shoulder moved forward and a shorter neck...............................DJ

Except that the base is larger in diameter than the 30-06, too. In fact, I think the Hawk line of cartridges are based on the 9.3 case for that very reason. Sometimes handloaders have trouble reaching published Hawk velocities because they use '06 cases, not 9.3 x 62 to form the rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
The 9.3 case is NOT a 30-06 case necked up like the Whelen.

The 9,3x62 would be called the 36 Whelen Improved if we invented it here. It fires a .366 diameter bullet in a 30-06 sized case with shoulder moved forward and a shorter neck...............................DJ

Except that the base is larger in diameter than the 30-06, too. In fact, I think the Hawk line of cartridges are based on the 9.3 case for that very reason. Sometimes handloaders have trouble reaching published Hawk velocities because they use '06 cases, not 9.3 x 62 to form the rounds.

the problem is manufacturers undersizing the 06!!!

sadly the remedy is to use 9,3x66 brass