So perhaps a 28 Nosler reamer, 404 brass and Ruger rechamber
Or just rebarrel a 33 Nosler to 404 Jeffery and call it a day. Should feed ok.

The case is fat enough to take it to .475 and leave a shoulder for headspace. Why stop at .404?

Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
The case is fat enough to take it to .475 and leave a shoulder for headspace. Why stop at .404?

Jeremy

it has, in fact -- click on the 470 link in my sig

I was thinking you could just re-barrel and shoot factory 404 Jeffery rounds since it can feed that fat case.

no, boomie.. too short, and wrong shoulder geo ...

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
The case is fat enough to take it to .475 and leave a shoulder for headspace. Why stop at .404?

Jeremy

Actually the case us fat enough to take it to .500 caliber and still leave a shoulder for headspacing.
Michael458 has done so with his .500 MDM with 2.8" length RUM case and a shorter .500 B&M with 2.5" RUM case; both using the Winchester M70 RUM action.
Michael's 50 B&M (also .500 caliber) uses a 2.25" shoulderless RUM case that headspaces off the case mouth backed by the CRF claw extractor in the Winchester M70 WSM action.

This would fit nicely in a rebarreled 300 RUM.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
With the case capacity and claimed MV the working pressure must be somewhere around 100,000 Psi.

i hear that a deep throat is special, and overcomes all other rules of internal ballistics (that was irony, for those not up on this)

We can always contact Marilyn Chambers for varification. :-)

One more redundant cartridge created for marketing purposes.

Sounds like , much ado about not much.
Speed is a deminishing return . B.C just keeps going and going.
I still think the 338/375 Ruger would be the be all cart. Unless you need alot more speed with a heavy bullet. Then something like a 338/378 would be useful.
As far as a 9.3 Ruger. , ya it would be great but it really wouldn't accomplish much that the 9.3×64 B doesnt already do. ???

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Sounds like , much ado about not much.
Speed is a deminishing return . B.C just keeps going and going.
I still think the 338/375 Ruger would be the be all cart. Unless you need alot more speed with a heavy bullet. Then something like a 338/378 would be useful.
As far as a 9.3 Ruger. , ya it would be great but it really wouldn't accomplish much that the 9.3×64 B doesnt already do. ???

And a 36 Ruger (9.3mm) would be like asking for a 29-06, or a 290 WinMag. What would be the point?
for a 9.3Ruger (.366Ruger) we already have the 375Ruger, and in nicely priced little rifles.

However, a 338/375Ruger would produce a mild hunting advantage, like the 340 Weatherby. I agree that it would be a remarkable all around cartridge, although the 338WinMag is already in the running for such a title.

And the 33Nosler will be a great cartridge if it is offered in inexpensive rifles.

Loading to reloading book specs, the 340 WBy gets 150 FPS more velocity than the .338 Win.

Loading both to max, but having a long throat and magazine on the 338 Win. and both with 26 or 24 inch barrels, they come pretty clost to equal with max loads in both. My .338 Win. will equal reloading book .340 Max loads, and come within a 100 FPS with the warmest of handloads for both..keeping all things equal..but recoil becomes a factor to one degree or another.

I did comparisons with my Ruger African .338 win. and my Full custom .338 with a 375 box, and throat cut to match..both are very accurate rifles, and the loads I settled on for both are 2913 FPS with a 225 Accubond or Partitions in the Ruger..A reloading book max load and incredibly accurate.

In the custom .338 Win. I built it to shoot 300 gr. Accubonds as they don't fit in a factory .338 very well and eat up powder space. In my gun the sizzle with that bullet set forward in the case to seat at the shoulder junction.that 300 gr bullet is very fast and a real hammer in that it lays elk or big animals down like a 300 Wby does a Coues deer. That said, I really don't see much use for it as the standard .338 Win. is a grand elk rifle and much less recoil. However busting 5 gallon rocks at a 1000 yards from field positions with a hunting rifle and no range finder etc, is fun with about 50% misses, but if its close we call it a kill!!

That 2913fps in a standard Ruger 338WM sounds nice.

what is the recipe?
case?
primer?
powder?

(I'm going to guess 71.5gn Rel-17, but surprise me.)

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
That 2913fps in a standard Ruger 338WM sounds nice.

what is the recipe?
case?
primer?
powder?

(I'm going to guess 71.5gn Rel-17, but surprise me.)

Reading Ray's last post it appears he obtains these velocities primarily from using a 375 H&H (3.60") length magazine box and a long throat so that bullets are seated long for use in that magazine...

Here's the SAAMI approved 33 Nosler cartridge and chamber specifications:

I can't make out your picture. Photosuckit loves to redirect. Anyway, it basically a little shorter than the 338RUM, right? So it's an option if you think the RUM is too big I guess?

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:
I can't make out your picture. Photosuckit loves to redirect. Anyway, it basically a little shorter than the 338RUM, right? So it's an option if you think the RUM is too big I guess?

Agreed on photosuckit...

Yes pretty much a shorted 338 RUM; 2.460" case length with a 35° shoulder angle. Primarily for the standard length (3.4" magazine length) rifles.

Although a 300gr AccuBond (1.85" OAL) seated to 3.357" COAL places the bullet diameter shank/boattail junction just slightly below the shoulder/neck junction (between the SAAMI Min/Max on the shoulder angle). So it'd be pretty efficient in a 3.6" magazine length rifle.

PS... SAAMI.org has all of the Nosler cartridges listed on their website but this time around you need to download a 248 page document to have ready access to the cartridge/chamber schematics...
http://saami.org/specification...AAMI_CFR.pdf#page=13

quote:

Originally posted by 460 wby shooter:
Now if they made a 35 Nosler then that would be interesting

I sometimes think that too, but then again I have a 7 1/4 lb 375 Weatherby so no need on my part.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Here's the SAAMI approved 33 Nosler cartridge and chamber specifications:

thank you for this, Capo. I have saved it to my "338/375Ruger directory".

The 33 Nosler looks like a great cartridge. I am surprised at its short length, 2.46", but that appears to be designed for the long, high-BC bullets that are coming out, just like the design of the 338 Norma and the 6.5 Creedmore. On AmmoGuide someone will need to add a new listing. The current listing is the .338-26Nosler, but it uses a 2.59" case length.

With the 33 Nosler as a SAAMI reality, the need for a 338/375Ruger recedes and practically disappears. I'll just need to learn to live with a rebated casehead. There are worse things in life.

Of course, out to 400 yards, the 338WinMag still does everything a hunter needs. It is nice to see a great diameter, .338", come of age. And the case-capacity of the 338 Nosler is well-fitted to the range from .338" to .375", complementing Jeffeoso's AccRel series. This is really more appropriate and useful for hunters than the 26, 28, and 30 Nosler, although screaming velocity is always fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
One more redundant cartridge created for marketing purposes.

Exactly. Finding new ways to re-invent the wheel. They replaced case capacity with higher pressure to a certain degree and lied and fudged about the rest, whoop tee do..

Well, the 33 Nosler now has a page on AmmoGuide.
with that we can compare the Ammoguide stats and we find that the capacity of the 33Nosler is listed at 93 grains and the 340 Weatherby at 93.5 grains.

That means that we now have a 340 weatherby equivalent available for standard action rifles with 3.4" magazines.

Is that redundant? Yes, and no. Just like the 375Ruger is similarly redundant to the 375H&H but provides an option for lighter rifles and less expensive rifles.

For those who want 340 Weatherby ballistics, the 33 Nosler will be available as a fairly simple rechambering with a 1-thread barrel setback.

Now a follow up question becomes, how reliable is a barrel setback and re-chamber? will most every gunsmith be able to do this and keep the barrel at least as true as it was from the factory? I have no experience in this, but I would appreciate the opinions of those acquainted with the smith work necessary. Is this a 'slam dunk' that will only improve the rifle, or is their some risk involved of messing up a well-trued barrel?

Tanz,

Barrel setback and rechamber completely depends upon the gunsmith. Reputable gunsmith yes. Local parts changer not so much.

I just re-looked at the cartridge/chamber specifications for all of the Nosler cartridges, 26-36 Nosler, and I believe politics played mightily in the dimensions of each...

The 26 and 28 Nosler finish reamers will cleanup the 264 Winchester Magnum and 7mm Remmington Magnum chambers respectively.

The 27 Nosler finish reamer is very iffy as to cleaning up the 270 Weatherby Magnum chamber; likely will require a thread setback of the barrel to cleanly rechamber.

The 30 Nosler finish Reamers will not cleanup the 308 Norma Magnum chamber.

The 33 Nosler finish reamer will not cleanup the 338 Winchester Magnum chamber without a barrel setback; one possibly two threads to cleanly rechamber.

The 35 Nosler will not cleanup the 358 Norma Magnum chamber.

The 36 Nosler finish reamer will cleanup the 9.3x64 Brenneke chamber.

Personally for the 338 WinMag I would use the wildcat 33/26 Nosler finish reamer and reloading dies.
For brass I would use the 36 Nosler brass (2017 release) and fireform for the chamber.
For cartridge identification I'd inscribe another 3 to the 36 and alter the 6 to an 8 so that it would read 338 Nosler and go from there. Otherwise inscribe the barrel with 33/36 Nosler.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
That 2913fps in a standard Ruger 338WM sounds nice.

what is the recipe?
case?
primer?
powder?

(I'm going to guess 71.5gn Rel-17, but surprise me.)

Here are the loads I use in my 338 WM
225 Nosler Accubond 76.0 RL-19 Fed 215M R-P Nickel 2916 fps 4249 ft-lbs 3.540"
225 Nosler Accubond 75.0 Hunter Fed 215M R-P Nickel 2869 fps 4113 ft-lbs 3.540"

Start low and work up to them.

quote:

Start low and work up to them.

Yes, I would start low. The 3.54" OAL gets them over halfway to the Weatherby capacity.

quote:

Personally for the 338 WinMag I would use the wildcat 33/26 Nosler finish reamer and reloading dies.
For brass I would use the 36 Nosler brass (2017 release) and fireform for the chamber.
For cartridge identification I'd inscribe another 3 to the 36 and alter the 6 to an 8 so that it would read 338 Nosler and go from there. Otherwise inscribe the barrel with 33/36 Nosler.

Jim

Well, to get the most out of the 33 Nosler a person will need a 3.6" magazine, despite the SAAMI listing of 3.34" COAL.

With the 33/26Nosler a person could load a bullet with a 1.01" nose length, but with the 33 Nosler a person could load a bullet with a 1.14" nose length.

CEB have some interesting bullets. The .338 225gn LazerRaptor has a 1.03" nose length, but the 250gn Laser has a 1.26" nose for single feed-only, in both.
However, the MTH series has a 252grain .338" with a nose of 1.174", something that might just be tucked into the 33Nosler without needing single feed, if one allowed the 'seal-tight-band' to go into the case 0.035". The G1 BC is given at .750 and stable in a 10" twist.

So when it comes to long-range bullets the two cases "33" and "33/26" end up pretty much equal, with a slight edge to the "33".
And with short range bullets, both of them already have pretty high velocity and energy, though the 33/26 might get 25fps for all the extra work of case formation.

This is reminiscent of the RUM/Edge question with their 0.09" difference in column length. The RUM/Edge, by the way, have cases that are too long for magazine feeding with the extra-long bullets, but a person could still get RUM ballistics and long bullets by going to the 338 Norma. 'Normal' hunters, who recognize 400 yards, yea, even 500, as a long shot, will do nicely with the 33 Nosler and the 338WM.

When it comes down to it, the 33 Nosler and the 338WM will get their main difference in a 3.6" magazine. So I don't see Ruger, or Tikka, or some of the other rifles with 3.4" and 3.38" magazines being offered in 33 Nosler or as platforms for the 33. Maybe the Nosler rifles are different, I don't know.

Tanz,

Nosler does not manufacture/offer a rifle with a 3.6" magazine length hence the 3.34" SAAMI COAL specification.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe Nosler would have produced a stronger line of cartridges by offering a single case OAL for the entire line. They manufacture their bullets so locating a seating groove for a specific caliber (if needed) would be zero issue. Doing it as a cost saving measure is a no-go because the cost is passed directly to the consumer.

Bottom line using a slightly shorter case to accommodate the longest bullets (in that caliber) is a zero sum game with a slightly longer case. It also eliminates maximum loading capability for shorter bullets; e.g., the 300gr Accubond vs 225gr Accubond (.338 caliber of course).

Anyway that's my thinking...

Jim,

I'm thinking that my current 338WM in the US had so much time invested that I'm reluctant to 'fix what is no longer broke'. And yes, case length + nose length is partially a zero sum game but it can also affect accuracy if a nose is placed inside a neck, resulting more finicky neck tension and a potential loss in accuracy.

Nevertheless, the 33 Nosler at 2.46" case length will allow about 0.9 nose length in the current rifle, even better than the WM. That 0.9" nose covers a lot of good bullets. And the WM itself handles 0.86" nose lengths in a standard mag.

At the moment I am not thinking of hunting beyond 400 yards, but then I haven't hunted the rockies and wished to reach the far side of a canyon, half a kilometer or more.

Tanz,

I had a long response prepared- but bottom line - it's a hard decision to make and it's completely a decision each individual makes for themselves.

Good luck with whatever you decide; you won't lose whatever that decision is...

Didn't W.J.Jeffery do this something like 108 years ago?
Looks like a 333 Jeffery with a short neck.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
Didn't W.J.Jeffery do this something like 108 years ago?
Looks like a 333 Jeffery with a short neck.

Point on. As a .333Jeffery shooter I would state the Jeffery round is still the noble choice

So many new cartridges so many more arguments.

Lotsa pros and cons for the 33 Nosler...and hair splitting/comparing...

Maybe one aspect on the upside is FACTORY/COMMERCIAL available ammo and MUCH cheaper dies and rental reamers...and all the best case dimensions...I really hate buying reamers and VERY HIGH DOLLAR dies every time I want to do some non-commercial venture.

I think it's GREAT that in todays world commercial gun/ammo makers are learning from all the past innovations and producing the next generation of bangers irregardless of the fact that there are many cartridges that are excellent themselves and don't need to be compared to anything else...and are just as effective.

Now you don't have to be a gunsmith, or pay one, and go to great lengths to obtain maximum case volume in a commercial cartridge, by mucking about with chamber throats, wildcatting or mag lengths...just go buy one that already HAS those innovations built in, factory ammo, etc.

I don't think you can have too many choices custom or factory...and it doesn't matter to me if 50 years from now it goes belly up...I'll be long gone...I keep seeing that old argument and it STILL doesn't make much sense to me because there are plenty of solutions that will keep your shooter going long into the future.

Be glad you can still argue over minutia...the way things are going in the world, we might not have much time left to whine.

Luck

For real world shooting then the 338 Winchester.

For fun and some pizzaz then by pass the rest and get 338/378.

Can't speak about America a plus the 338/378 has compared to stuff like 338 RUM and 33 Nosler is brass. If no 338/378 available then a super easy neck up or neck down of 30/378 or 378.

22" 338 Win Mag or 24"340 Wby.

What is the cost of unprimed brass in the US?