quote:

308 Win. One shot at 225 yard

Yup.....still well over 1500 ft-lb energy at that range. The .308 Win is quite a cartridge for such a small case. I took mine along as a backup this year and it was my primary gun two years ago......and I had much bigger guns then as I do now.....

My handloads still carry my requirements to 400 yards.....and that's my limits for shooting over sticks.

Since a bullet strike is an inelastic collision and the energy is transformed into other forms of energy mostly thermal, how is FPE relevant to wound trauma incapacitation? If you used momentum then it is indeed relevant.

FPE is not just BS, but total BS when used to rate lethality.

Energy figures were used to calculate velocity before modern chrongraphs existed. That's it.

Today those that read too much think it is a direct factor in killing power. It is not.

K.O values give a much better representation of ability to kill stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
Energy figures were used to calculate velocity before modern chrongraphs existed. That's it.

Today those that read too much think it is a direct factor in killing power. It is not.

K.O values give a much better representation of ability to kill stuff.

'K.O.' values? What is the formula for 'K.O. value'?

I'm mathmaticly challaged, but if you look on 'Beartooth Bullets" site, they have a calculator that you just plug the dia., weight, and velocity into and it shows you that number.

If you have any of the old Guns & Ammo specials, Big Bore Rifles, All Around Rifles,
They have articles by Jack Lott, John Wooters and Finn Aagard. They explore all the KO values, pounds feet, and a pile of other fomulas. They all came to the same conclusion though, with the advent of premium bullets, the rules changed. Wooters article is titled, It's the bullet that counts. Aagard ends with " stopping power comes from placing a sutable bullet in the right spot".

Correct, the whole arguement however is; what constitutes "suitable".

Amazing thread. A person asks a specific question in relation to a specific cartridge for a specific purpose and we have 6 pages of pissing contest. Amazing. Simply amazing.
After wading though all this, has anyone really answered his question or is this just an ego stroking contest?
Now I haven't shot anything with a 7MM-08 but I have with a 7x57 Mauser. My thought would be load ammo with a good 150 to 160 gr. bullet to the highest safe velocity for that rifle and keep shots to 200, maybe 250 yards or less and preferably less. You might even try the 140 gr. Barnes TSX if your rifle likes them. I'm not even sure a premium bullet would be necessary considering the top velocity from a 7MM-08 or my hot loaded 7x57 which comes close to the 7mm-08 in speed. Just find a load the gun likes, is accurate and put the bullet in the right place.
Would a more potent round be better. Probably but the criteria was set by the OP and that's what the answers should be and should have been. Not my gun is bigger than your gun, therefore better.
Paul B.

A 7-08 with a good bullet of about any make will work just fine. Yes, speaking from experience.
The 160 gr. TSX out of mine is almost "over kill" within 207- 1/2 yards.

Paul B,

The orig. question of the thread:

"Was hoping to get some feedback on what loads perform well on elk, mule deer and antelope. I am getting a 70 Featherweight for my wife and son. Thanks in advance."

When one asks what 7mm/08 loads perform well, one may be interested to know to what distance they perform well.
someone stated 1500fpe was a prefered limit-[distance at which 1500fpe occurs could vary]...
People with experience stated 1500fpe is not a fair/realistic limit indicator of 7mm/08 ability to perform well on elk.

Those who use the 1500fpe criteria also take 400yd shots, which according to someone elses distance criteria, would be considered excessive distance shooting, not hunting.
I can easily get .308win to deliver 1500fpe at 550yd, i guess different folk will make different things of it.

may I ask your reasoning for 200yd limit?

Interesting thread. Here's another viewpoint. First I'll start by saying I have shot a grand total of zero elk. Aside from a few mulies and whitetails in Montana, all my hunting experience is from Alaska shooting everything with a 338 WM. I read this thread because I just bought a 7mm-08 and am curious as to its performance capabilities.

Here's my view. In my experience, energy doesn't mean jack or scheit and jack left town to go muskox hunting. I think four things should determine how far away I would shoot at an elk with a 7mm-08.

1. My shooting ability from field positions
2. My rifle's accuracy
3. The distance at which the velocity of the bullet I'm using will fail to reliably expand on game
4. My judgment based on the shooting conditions/situation

Here's how it would play out for me:

1. I prefer to shoot less than 300 yards from field positions...cause I know I ain't no Carlos Hathcock

2. Assuming my new rifle shoots moa at 100 yards I have plenty of accuracy for shooting waaay out there

3. Using Federal Premium Barnes 140 grain TSXs for this example. These bullets should reliably expand at an impact velocity of 1800 fps. (cause I don't wanna shoot an elk with a full metal jacket) Using my trusty Pact chronograph/ballistic calculator the bullet traveling at 2820 fps out my barrel will drop down to 1964 fps at 400 yards and 1777 fps at 500 yards. So technically, this bullet should reliably expand out to somewhere in the neighborhood of 475 yards. (naturally I would actually chronograph my loads before doing this exercise)

4. Based on my shooting ability (taking the wind etc. into consideration), my rifle's accuracy and the expansion threshold of the bullet I would take a broadside shot (heart/lungs) at 300 yards but not any further. If the wind was blowin 30 knots I wouldn't take the shot. I wouldn't take any kind of angled shot through the shoulder at that distance cause I'm not familiar enough with either 7mm bullets or elk to feel comfortable doing it. If necessary, I'd pass on the elk and stop at the grocery store for some beef, chicken or pork or just go home and shoot a moose or caribou with my 338 WM.

There are lots of variables in this type of hunting situation and I definitely don't believe energy plays a significant part in and of itself. A metal projectile boring a wound channel through an animal destroying various types of tissue along the way is what kills them in the end...not energy.

Just the view from my seat on the bus and it's a short bus at that!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

308 Win. One shot at 225 yard

Yup.....still well over 1500 ft-lb energy at that range. The .308 Win is quite a cartridge for such a small case. I took mine along as a backup this year and it was my primary gun two years ago......and I had much bigger guns then as I do now.....

My handloads still carry my requirements to 400 yards.....and that's my limits for shooting over sticks.

If 1500 FPE is a usefull way to determine an Elk cartridge then a 6-284 with a 100 BT at 3215 FPS is adequate to 300 yards at 500' elevation

Yards-------fps------Energy
300---------2603------1504

Are you sure that is the best way to choose?

400 yards off sticks Vapo?

That's some very fancy shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
400 yards off sticks Vapo?

That's some very fancy shooting.

Come to the SRM or any precision/tac match. You'll do this every time...

I used sticks this fall at 300 yards to take my elk....it was surprisingly steady and I was sitting so that helped.

I think that, given a bit of practice, one can shoot very well over sticks.

Very interesting lads, have you got any links to more information Rick?

Is this standing?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I used sticks this fall at 300 yards to take my elk....it was surprisingly steady and I was sitting so that helped.

I think that, given a bit of practice, one can shoot very well over sticks.

Ah, sitting. I took it to mean standing which is how I mainly use sticks here. I remarked on the range because I'm not really comfortable shooting off sticks standing over about 200 yards or so. Quad sticks are much more stable but I find them a pain to carry about.

Sitting or kneeling with the sticks, right elbow rested on the knee is much more stable, at my rifle club we shot out to 600 yards like that and it's usually possible to keep the shots on a piece of A4 if the wind is steady.

IT's not a position I've used in the field for some reason, might give it a go.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
400 yards off sticks Vapo?

That's some very fancy shooting.

Come to the SRM or any precision/tac match. You'll do this every time...

I've googled a bit but can't find an Service Rifle match rules that allow for sticks, the rules for English Service Rifle Entry form and regs are quite different again.

Yours sounds like an interesting format and good practice for hunting to boot, I would be grateful for any more information you might have.

I'm sure it would popular at my club as well.