Was hoping to get some feedback on what loads perform well on elk, mule deer and antelope. I am getting a 70 Featherweight for my wife and son. Thanks in advance.

Can't help you with a 7-08. However my wife uses the 140Accubond in her 7x57. It has taken ev erything from small Tx deerand springbok to Oryx and Elk with no problems.

Same bullet, similar velocity - should work just as well.

A 140 grain TSX at 2800 fps at the muzzle should work out to 400 yards, as long as you do your part.

Not my first choice for elk but my son's taken two with my Savage Sierra carbine with 140 grain A-Frames.

I have seen two 7mm-08's preform flawlessly on african plains game. From Zebra and Gemsbock on down. Ammo was Federal 150 gr. Hot Core. Longest shot just shy of 400yds.

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should work out to 400 yards, as long as you do your part.

No offence intended, but I always wonder from what experience statements like the above are made?

Does this mean at 401 yards the elk will be non-mortally hit and escape?

Given the right conditions I'd be happy with a 140 of some sort from a 7-08 out past 500 yards.

I think a 140 Accubond would be my first choice for an elk projectile.

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Originally posted by Brad:

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should work out to 400 yards, as long as you do your part.

No offence intended, but I always wonder from what experience statements like the above are made?

Does this mean at 401 yards the elk will be non-mortally hit and escape?

Given the right conditions I'd be happy with a 140 of some sort from a 7-08 out past 500 yards.

I think a 140 Accubond would be my first choice for an elk projectile.

I suppose the problem with stating any sort of 'limit' is that one can always raise the x + 1 instance. However, I believe we can all agree that at some point it is no longer practical, i.e. it is no longer a high enough probability prospect to justify it.

In this instance my comment was based on a quick check of the trajectory for the 140 grain 7mm TSX fired at the max velocity listed in the Barnes loading manual for the 7-08. At 400 yards there is still sufficient retained velocity to expect reasonable bullet performance. I would hardly attempt to make the case that that is no longer the case at 401 yards. In any case I only made a positive statment (i.e. it would work at 400 yards), I did not claim the converse (i.e. it would not work beyond 400 yards).

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Does this mean at 401 yards the elk will be non-mortally hit and escape?

Given the right conditions I'd be happy with a 140 of some sort from a 7-08 out past 500 yards.

I think a 140 Accubond would be my first choice for an elk projectile.

In my case I really don't have to worry about 401yds. My wife has her own limit of around 300yds. I've taken a deer with her rifle and 140s at a stepped off 450yds. It dropped on the spot. She has been shooting for 10yrs said when she had been shooting for another 20 yrs she might consider it.

Biggest issue I have with long range shooting is while the rifle might be able to handle it how many shooters practice at those ranges?

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7mm-08 vs Elk

IMO the range is limited to the point that the energy is under 1500 ft-lbs

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Originally posted by vapodog:

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7mm-08 vs Elk

IMO the range is limited to the point that the energy is under 1500 ft-lbs

Which, given the load previously mentioned for the TSX, doesn't even get you to 300 yards! I guess we all have our own criteria, with shooter skill obviously being a key factor. For me I like to ensure that the retained velocity is sufficient to provide adequate terminal bullet performance. However, if I use the ballistic calc for the same load previously mentioned and take it out to 600 yards, the velocity has dropped below 1600 fps, the energy is less than 800 ft-lb and the bullet drop is over 6 feet. My shooting skill is not such that I would be taking a 600 yard shot in any case, however, even if it were I would not feel comfortable shooting an elk with those bullet characteristics.

I agree on the 1500 lbs. I like 1500lbs and 2000fps as my limit for a bullet.

7-08 should work fine in its reaches, just remember its not 30 cal or larger magnum. Beyond a few hundred yards id be picky with my shots.

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Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
I agree on the 1500 lbs. I like 1500lbs and 2000fps as my limit for a bullet.

7-08 should work fine in its reaches, just remember its not 30 cal or larger magnum. Beyond a few hundred yards id be picky with my shots.

Does anyone have a definitive test on this foot pounds bull chit.

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Does anyone have a definitive test on this foot pounds bull chit.

I don't need a test.....I have a right to pick MY ELK RIFLE on any criteria I wish.....

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Originally posted by vapodog:

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Does anyone have a definitive test on this foot pounds bull chit.

I don't need a test.....I have a right to pick MY ELK RIFLE on any criteria I wish.....

Nobody said you didn't. That does not mean your criteria isn't pie in the sky though.

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Nobody said you didn't. That does not mean your criteria isn't pie in the sky though.

Please tell us what your criteria for an elk rifle is.....I'd love to know!

I guess I'm not a long range shooter. 300 yards is bout my max. I'm not worried about the drop as much as the drift. I'm not good at reading wind.

I've never hunted elk but I think I'd prefer a big bullet since I don't live where there are elk. I would want every advantage on an expensive hunt.

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Originally posted by vapodog:

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Nobody said you didn't. That does not mean your criteria isn't pie in the sky though.

Please tell me what your criteria for an elk rifle is.....I'd love to know!

It's the same reliable rifle that I hunt Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, Pronghorn, Sheep, Moose, or Bear with. Mated with a good bullet. For the one I'm using now please see the go to rifle thread below.

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

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Originally posted by vapodog:

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Nobody said you didn't. That does not mean your criteria isn't pie in the sky though.

Please tell me what your criteria for an elk rifle is.....I'd love to know!

It's the same reliable rifle that I hunt Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, Pronghorn, Sheep, Moose, or Bear with. Mated with a good bullet. For the one I'm using now please see the go to rifle thread below.

So....you have no criteria.....as I thought!

Would you agree that every cartridge has it's limitations.....that every cartridge sooner or later hasn't sufficient energy left to be effective on really big game?

At least vapodog has a window. I think it is a personnal ethics window, which I also have a similar thought to. I hit on this in the 6.5-.284 vs 7mm Rem mag thread. Call it a comfort zone. To many shooters think because they can hit a plate at 700 yards the bullet will do its' job on game. Me, I'm good w/ 300 yards with a 6.5x55 or 400..450 w/ my 7mm rem mag. 7-08 should be fine out to 300 yards w/ the always present "oh sh!t" factor w/ a well constructed bullet.
MHS, it does not take a .338, .358 mag to take Elk. It is hunting which takes skill and practice.

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Does anyone have a definitive test on this foot pounds bull chit.

Prezactly... funny what a good bullet in the right spot does to elk.

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Originally posted by vapodog:

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

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Originally posted by vapodog:

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Nobody said you didn't. That does not mean your criteria isn't pie in the sky though.

Please tell me what your criteria for an elk rifle is.....I'd love to know!

It's the same reliable rifle that I hunt Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, Pronghorn, Sheep, Moose, or Bear with. Mated with a good bullet. For the one I'm using now please see the go to rifle thread below.

So....you have no criteria.....as I thought!

Would you agree that every cartridge has it's limitations.....that every cartridge sooner or later hasn't sufficient energy left to be effective on really big game?

What am I going to base this nonsensical criteria on? Internet chat rooms? Gun magazines? The Tooth Fairy?

My criteria is simple. A good bullet.

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My criteria is simple. A good bullet.

You're just like a lot of folks I run into while hunting.....shoot at anything anywhere anytime....

Hey....let me ask.....did your parents also raise some front ends of horses?

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Ignored post by Chuck Nelson posted 21 November 2010 03:06

when you're just plain full of shit!

Wow. Somebody has their panties in a bunch.

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

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Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Nobody said you didn't. That does not mean your criteria isn't pie in the sky though.

Please tell me what your criteria for an elk rifle is.....I'd love to know!

It's the same reliable rifle that I hunt Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, Pronghorn, Sheep, Moose, or Bear with. Mated with a good bullet. For the one I'm using now please see the go to rifle thread below.

So....you have no criteria.....as I thought!

Would you agree that every cartridge has it's limitations.....that every cartridge sooner or later hasn't sufficient energy left to be effective on really big game?

What am I going to base this nonsensical criteria on? Internet chat rooms? Gun magazines? The Tooth Fairy?

My criteria is simple. A good bullet.

Pretty harsh! VP stated his opinion, I agree w/ him, close at least. You are adding nothing but bashing. Why? I'm no serious big game hunter, but I know what the rifle in my hands limitations are. My criteria is not as simple as yours, I guess.

What's funny is I wasn't even talking to him to begin with. I am a serious big game hunter and know that I cannot define anything until it is happening.

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Originally posted by BighornBreath:
Was hoping to get some feedback on what loads perform well on elk, mule deer and antelope. I am getting a 70 Featherweight for my wife and son. Thanks in advance.

Well you asked for a load so I will give you the one that I've taken Elk with 140 grain partitions with 41 grain of Imr 4320 powder. I use whatever primers I have at the time. I've used that load with 140 gr balistic tips for deer also. Killed a lot of different game with my m-7 rem in 7-08. Good luck Bruce

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Originally posted by Jpat:
Pretty harsh! VP stated his opinion, I agree w/ him, close at least. You are adding nothing but bashing. Why? I'm no serious big game hunter, but I know what the rifle in my hands limitations are. My criteria is not as simple as yours, I guess.

Jpat,
It's no secret that every limitation has it's subjectivities.....mine comes from the accumulation of decades of hunters that generally agree that 1,000 ft-lb is the cut off for deer.....and 1500 ft-lb for elk....this is the result "general agreement" (as I said) by hunters all the way back to two generations before me.....is it right?....hell no but for those that don't want to live with it.....may they state their own criteria.!!!

Every year some folks refuse to live with reasonable self imposed rules and we've all seen the result.....shoot at anything, anywhere, anytime....

These folks aren't hunters.....they're shooters.....and they're not welcome in my camp!

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Originally posted by vapodog:

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Originally posted by Jpat:
Pretty harsh! VP stated his opinion, I agree w/ him, close at least. You are adding nothing but bashing. Why? I'm no serious big game hunter, but I know what the rifle in my hands limitations are. My criteria is not as simple as yours, I guess.

Jpat,
It's no secret that every limitation has it's subjectivities.....mine comes from the accumulation of decades of hunters that generally agree that 1,000 ft-lb is the cut off for deer.....and 1500 ft-lb for elk....this is the result "general agreement" (as I said) by hunters all the way back to two generations before me.....is it right?....hell no but for those that don't want to live with it.....may they state their own criteria.!!!

Every year some folks refuse to live with reasonable self imposed rules and we've all seen the result.....shoot at anything, anywhere, anytime....

These folks aren't hunters.....they're shooters.....and they're not welcome in my camp!

Dude, where do these numbers come from and how many Elk have you killed to give some validity to them. They are simply arbitrary numbers pulled from the sky. It's that simple.

Penetration is FAR more important.

I should be used to this by now. I guess I've just been blessed to have good common sense and a great grasp on reality and so do those I associate with.

Why are so many enamoured with trying to get it done with the bare minimum bordering on "inadequate"?

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Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I should be used to this by now. I guess I've just been blessed to have good common sense and a great grasp on reality and so do those I associate with.

Why are so many enamoured with trying to get it done with the bare minimum bordering on "inadequate"?

A guy can push 2,700 FPS with a 160 grain bullet from the 7-08.....this still leaves a full 1500 ft-lb of energy at 325 yards.

That's pretty darn good for such a small case and a fairly long shot indeed!

If one don't state or even know his limitations he'll take a shot all the way to 500 yards where the remaining energy is about 1100 ft-lb.

Had one known this, he'd have been much more likely to have chosen the .280 Remington which will come close to maintaining the 1500 ft-lb mark all the way to 500......assuming one is capable of shooting that well.

In an attempt to not add more fuel to the fire, I also agree that for elk and other like size game, 2000 FPS and 1500 FPE is a reasonable floor.

However, many posters have opined that, that means a max range of 300 yds. with a 7mm-08.

From a 24" barrel I use a Hornady 162 grain A-Max @ 2720 FPS. This is what my drop chart shows produced by a JBM Ballistic table for that bullet @ 500 yds:

500 Yds Drop -2.9 Mils -10.0 MOA FPS 2021
FPE 1469

I'm not making a case that the 162 Gr A-Max is the ideal elk bullet, but the little 7mm-08 with a High G7 BC bullet is very efficient round (as are most 7mm's), more so than most folks realize.

Regards,

Bob

The first bull Elk was taken with a mere 1010 ft lbs of energy. Yet by some miracle the bull went straight down when shot through the top of the heart and the bullet went right through him.

The second one took three shots to the chest at 80 yds with 140 gr TTSX's shot from the 280 AI. He soaked up an amazing 7947 ft lbs of energy and didn't so much as flinch. He just continued to trot 30-40 yds and fell over dead.

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Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
I agree on the 1500 lbs. I like 1500lbs and 2000fps as my limit for a bullet.

7-08 should work fine in its reaches, just remember its not 30 cal or larger magnum. Beyond a few hundred yards id be picky with my shots.

This is good wisdom. I see we have someone here that has no idea how big elk can be.

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Originally posted by rolltop:

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
I agree on the 1500 lbs. I like 1500lbs and 2000fps as my limit for a bullet.

7-08 should work fine in its reaches, just remember its not 30 cal or larger magnum. Beyond a few hundred yards id be picky with my shots.

This is good wisdom. I see we have someone here that has no idea how big elk can be.

Haven't got a clue. How big are they?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapodog:
A guy can push 2,700 FPS with a 160 grain bullet from the 7-08.....this still leaves a full 1500 ft-lb of energy at 325 yards......500 yards where the remaining energy is about 1100 ft-lb.

160AB/2700mv 325yd:1682e, 400yd:1514e, 500yd:1312e

I really like Bob Hagel's signature line for matching rifle calibers to game.

There's no doubt that just about any chambering starting at .22 LR on up will kill an animal like elk at a given range and vital organ hit. Chuck has some beautiful bulls with the 7mm-08 and it ballistically fits the bill with range limitations; I trust he knows them and uses restraint unlike some who have some kind of strange ego deficiency, purposely choosing puny cartridges to use at extended range to "see if it can be done".

Why not take a rifle chambered for a cartridge firing a projectile with sufficient heft to minimize the ill effects of poor placement or overcome energy-sapping long range shots?

When we go on a hunt for a week or even out for the day we best take enough outerwear for whatever Mother Nature may unexpectedly dish out.

I'm also a believer in using non premium bullets for such calibers with lower velocity. I think the bullet fully expanding and depositing every ft-lb of energy it arrived with in the animal is critical.

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I'm also a believer in using non premium bullets for such calibers with lower velocity. I think the bullet fully expanding and depositing every ft-lb of energy it arrived with in the animal is critical.

Interesting point as I've wondered about the value of a premium bullet in the larger calibers. I like exit holes so will give this consideration.....I suspect you're logic is valid here.

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Haven't got a clue.

Completely agree that he doesn't have a clue.

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Originally posted by Hot Core:

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Haven't got a clue.

Completely agree that he doesn't have a clue.

Right on there HC....