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One of Us |
Was hoping to get some feedback on what loads perform well on elk, mule deer and antelope. I am getting a 70 Featherweight for my wife and son. Thanks in advance. | ||
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one of us |
Can't help you with a 7-08. However my wife uses the 140Accubond in her 7x57. It has taken ev erything from small Tx deerand springbok to Oryx and Elk with no problems. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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One of Us |
Same bullet, similar velocity - should work just as well. A 140 grain TSX at 2800 fps at the muzzle should work out to 400 yards, as long as you do your part. | |||
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One of Us |
Not my first choice for elk but my son's taken two with my Savage Sierra carbine with 140 grain A-Frames. | |||
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One of Us |
I have seen two 7mm-08's preform flawlessly on african plains game. From Zebra and Gemsbock on down. Ammo was Federal 150 gr. Hot Core. Longest shot just shy of 400yds. | |||
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One of Us |
No offence intended, but I always wonder from what experience statements like the above are made? Does this mean at 401 yards the elk will be non-mortally hit and escape? Given the right conditions I'd be happy with a 140 of some sort from a 7-08 out past 500 yards. I think a 140 Accubond would be my first choice for an elk projectile. | |||
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One of Us |
I suppose the problem with stating any sort of 'limit' is that one can always raise the x + 1 instance. However, I believe we can all agree that at some point it is no longer practical, i.e. it is no longer a high enough probability prospect to justify it. In this instance my comment was based on a quick check of the trajectory for the 140 grain 7mm TSX fired at the max velocity listed in the Barnes loading manual for the 7-08. At 400 yards there is still sufficient retained velocity to expect reasonable bullet performance. I would hardly attempt to make the case that that is no longer the case at 401 yards. In any case I only made a positive statment (i.e. it would work at 400 yards), I did not claim the converse (i.e. it would not work beyond 400 yards). | |||
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one of us |
In my case I really don't have to worry about 401yds. My wife has her own limit of around 300yds. I've taken a deer with her rifle and 140s at a stepped off 450yds. It dropped on the spot. She has been shooting for 10yrs said when she had been shooting for another 20 yrs she might consider it. Biggest issue I have with long range shooting is while the rifle might be able to handle it how many shooters practice at those ranges? As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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One of Us |
IMO the range is limited to the point that the energy is under 1500 ft-lbs /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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One of Us |
Which, given the load previously mentioned for the TSX, doesn't even get you to 300 yards! I guess we all have our own criteria, with shooter skill obviously being a key factor. For me I like to ensure that the retained velocity is sufficient to provide adequate terminal bullet performance. However, if I use the ballistic calc for the same load previously mentioned and take it out to 600 yards, the velocity has dropped below 1600 fps, the energy is less than 800 ft-lb and the bullet drop is over 6 feet. My shooting skill is not such that I would be taking a 600 yard shot in any case, however, even if it were I would not feel comfortable shooting an elk with those bullet characteristics. | |||
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One of Us |
I agree on the 1500 lbs. I like 1500lbs and 2000fps as my limit for a bullet. 7-08 should work fine in its reaches, just remember its not 30 cal or larger magnum. Beyond a few hundred yards id be picky with my shots. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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one of us |
Does anyone have a definitive test on this foot pounds bull chit. | |||
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One of Us |
I don't need a test.....I have a right to pick MY ELK RIFLE on any criteria I wish..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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one of us |
Nobody said you didn't. That does not mean your criteria isn't pie in the sky though. | |||
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One of Us |
Please tell us what your criteria for an elk rifle is.....I'd love to know! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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One of Us |
I guess I'm not a long range shooter. 300 yards is bout my max. I'm not worried about the drop as much as the drift. I'm not good at reading wind. I've never hunted elk but I think I'd prefer a big bullet since I don't live where there are elk. I would want every advantage on an expensive hunt. | |||
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one of us |
It's the same reliable rifle that I hunt Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, Pronghorn, Sheep, Moose, or Bear with. Mated with a good bullet. For the one I'm using now please see the go to rifle thread below. | |||
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One of Us |
So....you have no criteria.....as I thought! Would you agree that every cartridge has it's limitations.....that every cartridge sooner or later hasn't sufficient energy left to be effective on really big game? /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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One of Us |
At least vapodog has a window. I think it is a personnal ethics window, which I also have a similar thought to. I hit on this in the 6.5-.284 vs 7mm Rem mag thread. Call it a comfort zone. To many shooters think because they can hit a plate at 700 yards the bullet will do its' job on game. Me, I'm good w/ 300 yards with a 6.5x55 or 400..450 w/ my 7mm rem mag. 7-08 should be fine out to 300 yards w/ the always present "oh sh!t" factor w/ a well constructed bullet. MHS, it does not take a .338, .358 mag to take Elk. It is hunting which takes skill and practice. | |||
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One of Us |
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one of us |
What am I going to base this nonsensical criteria on? Internet chat rooms? Gun magazines? The Tooth Fairy? My criteria is simple. A good bullet. | |||
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One of Us |
You're just like a lot of folks I run into while hunting.....shoot at anything anywhere anytime.... Hey....let me ask.....did your parents also raise some front ends of horses? /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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One of Us |
when you're just plain full of shit! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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one of us |
Wow. Somebody has their panties in a bunch. | |||
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One of Us |
Pretty harsh! VP stated his opinion, I agree w/ him, close at least. You are adding nothing but bashing. Why? I'm no serious big game hunter, but I know what the rifle in my hands limitations are. My criteria is not as simple as yours, I guess. | |||
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one of us |
What's funny is I wasn't even talking to him to begin with. I am a serious big game hunter and know that I cannot define anything until it is happening. | |||
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one of us |
Well you asked for a load so I will give you the one that I've taken Elk with 140 grain partitions with 41 grain of Imr 4320 powder. I use whatever primers I have at the time. I've used that load with 140 gr balistic tips for deer also. Killed a lot of different game with my m-7 rem in 7-08. Good luck Bruce When there's lead in the air, there's hope!!!! | |||
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One of Us |
Jpat, It's no secret that every limitation has it's subjectivities.....mine comes from the accumulation of decades of hunters that generally agree that 1,000 ft-lb is the cut off for deer.....and 1500 ft-lb for elk....this is the result "general agreement" (as I said) by hunters all the way back to two generations before me.....is it right?....hell no but for those that don't want to live with it.....may they state their own criteria.!!! Every year some folks refuse to live with reasonable self imposed rules and we've all seen the result.....shoot at anything, anywhere, anytime.... These folks aren't hunters.....they're shooters.....and they're not welcome in my camp! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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one of us |
Dude, where do these numbers come from and how many Elk have you killed to give some validity to them. They are simply arbitrary numbers pulled from the sky. It's that simple. Penetration is FAR more important. | |||
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One of Us |
I should be used to this by now. I guess I've just been blessed to have good common sense and a great grasp on reality and so do those I associate with. Why are so many enamoured with trying to get it done with the bare minimum bordering on "inadequate"? | |||
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One of Us |
A guy can push 2,700 FPS with a 160 grain bullet from the 7-08.....this still leaves a full 1500 ft-lb of energy at 325 yards. That's pretty darn good for such a small case and a fairly long shot indeed! If one don't state or even know his limitations he'll take a shot all the way to 500 yards where the remaining energy is about 1100 ft-lb. Had one known this, he'd have been much more likely to have chosen the .280 Remington which will come close to maintaining the 1500 ft-lb mark all the way to 500......assuming one is capable of shooting that well. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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one of us |
In an attempt to not add more fuel to the fire, I also agree that for elk and other like size game, 2000 FPS and 1500 FPE is a reasonable floor. However, many posters have opined that, that means a max range of 300 yds. with a 7mm-08. From a 24" barrel I use a Hornady 162 grain A-Max @ 2720 FPS. This is what my drop chart shows produced by a JBM Ballistic table for that bullet @ 500 yds: 500 Yds Drop -2.9 Mils -10.0 MOA FPS 2021 FPE 1469 I'm not making a case that the 162 Gr A-Max is the ideal elk bullet, but the little 7mm-08 with a High G7 BC bullet is very efficient round (as are most 7mm's), more so than most folks realize. Regards, Bob | |||
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one of us |
The first bull Elk was taken with a mere 1010 ft lbs of energy. Yet by some miracle the bull went straight down when shot through the top of the heart and the bullet went right through him. The second one took three shots to the chest at 80 yds with 140 gr TTSX's shot from the 280 AI. He soaked up an amazing 7947 ft lbs of energy and didn't so much as flinch. He just continued to trot 30-40 yds and fell over dead. | |||
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One of Us |
This is good wisdom. I see we have someone here that has no idea how big elk can be. | |||
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one of us |
Haven't got a clue. How big are they? | |||
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One of Us |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapodog: A guy can push 2,700 FPS with a 160 grain bullet from the 7-08.....this still leaves a full 1500 ft-lb of energy at 325 yards......500 yards where the remaining energy is about 1100 ft-lb. 160AB/2700mv 325yd:1682e, 400yd:1514e, 500yd:1312e | |||
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One of Us |
I really like Bob Hagel's signature line for matching rifle calibers to game. There's no doubt that just about any chambering starting at .22 LR on up will kill an animal like elk at a given range and vital organ hit. Chuck has some beautiful bulls with the 7mm-08 and it ballistically fits the bill with range limitations; I trust he knows them and uses restraint unlike some who have some kind of strange ego deficiency, purposely choosing puny cartridges to use at extended range to "see if it can be done". Why not take a rifle chambered for a cartridge firing a projectile with sufficient heft to minimize the ill effects of poor placement or overcome energy-sapping long range shots? When we go on a hunt for a week or even out for the day we best take enough outerwear for whatever Mother Nature may unexpectedly dish out. I'm also a believer in using non premium bullets for such calibers with lower velocity. I think the bullet fully expanding and depositing every ft-lb of energy it arrived with in the animal is critical. | |||
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One of Us |
Interesting point as I've wondered about the value of a premium bullet in the larger calibers. I like exit holes so will give this consideration.....I suspect you're logic is valid here. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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one of us |
Completely agree that he doesn't have a clue. | |||
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One of Us |
Right on there HC.... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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