This is a great compliment to the accidental cow thread.

Accidental cow thread

the word "Dork" seems to come to mind every time I read one of your posts.

Is there some logic to this, or is it just your anal consistency?

When I get to feeling depressed, I always read this thread. Then, I realize I'm not the biggest idiot on the forum. Second at times, but never even an outside shot at #1...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
the word "Dork" seems to come to mind every time I read one of your posts.

Is there some logic to this, or is it just your anal consistency?

When I get to feeling depressed, I always read this thread. Then, I realize I'm not the biggest idiot on the forum. Second at times, but never even an outside shot at #1...

Idaho please restrain yourself, I lost some fine whiskey when I spluttered it all out after reading your post

WOW....There is the mention of "shot by someone else." There is more than one of them out there...

shootaway,

The first two shots show that both the rifle and you are capable of 1" groups.

Now to the second target. Good shooting, offhand with a sporting rifle at 100 yards, would be 6" or keeping the shots in the orange circle. Excellent shooting, offhand with a sporting rifle at 100 yards, would be 4" or keeping the shots in the white line circle. I used to compete in Service Rifle matches and I can say with authority that 100 yard groups of 4" offhand are competitive in those matches and 2" offhand groups are what champions shoot.

Many people don't really understand the dynamics involved in shooting from a standing position. That's no surprise considering most casual shooters and hunters never try more than hitting a gong a few times while standing. Your large group is the norm for most shooters, and yes, I venture to say it is the norm for many who post here. People will talk, but the truth is that few of the shooters you encounter come close to putting 10 shots from a sporting rifle into a 6" circle at 100 yards while free-standing.

So, what's going on and how can you make it better? My guess is that the areas in which you need the most work are your body position and your breathing. Proper breathing includes keeping the amount of air held in your lungs when you squeeze the trigger consistent from shot to shot. Creating a stable shooting platform with your body involves how you place your feet, turn your upper body, hold your waist, rest your head, and what you do with your hands and arms. Having someone on hand to "coach" you is the best way to improve your body position and the way you are holding the rifle. But I will mention, you need to keep your arms close to the body, trigger arm elbow down and forward arm back toward you so your upper arm is against your torso.

I would also guess that you are continuing to shoot after you have become tired. I suggest firing a few shots, lowering the rifle for a few seconds and then firing a few more. Trying to shoot an offhand string of more than ten shots is self defeating. Put the rifle down, walk around, have a seat, take a drink, and then try another string after several minutes. And remember, the absolute best thing you can do for offhand shooting is to find a rest for your body. Just resting your hip against a rock or leaning sideways against a tree will make a tremendous difference.

I recommend you download and read Teaching the Standing Position section here: Teaching Rifle Positions . Also, take a look at the "Common New Shooter Mistakes in Standing" on page 5.

Good luck!

Grenadier,
offhand shooting(especially good groups at 100) requires alot of the stuff you have when you are young and very strong.You hope that years of practice will compensate for that loss when you get older but it only does so much.

shootaway,

A proper standing position requires holding the rifle with less use of muscle and not more use of muscle. Some of the toughest guys to compete with are the old veterans!

Shootaway:

You must operate a great business, with low stress, and one that requires little to no effort to succeed.
I would also say that you do not have a lot of hobbies.
I am surprised that you would enjoy making up threads to try an satisfy some sort of entertainment need.

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:
Shootaway:

You must operate a great business, with low stress, and one that requires little to no effort to succeed.
I would also say that you do not have a lot of hobbies.
I am surprised that you would enjoy making up threads to try an satisfy some sort of entertainment need.

I am not making anything up.I use to accompany my shooting outings with videos.

Shot this target today
[URL= ]100yds [/URL]

Maybe that target explains how you shot a cow buffalo instead of the bull your PH was trying to get you to shoot!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Maybe that target explains how you shot a cow buffalo instead of the bull your PH was trying to get you to shoot!!!!!

Nothing wrong with that target

Can I confirm if it is full choke or improve cylinder ?

quote:

Can I confirm if it is full choke or improve cylinder ?

Excellent response.

For those interested in which barrel I am using it is (I believe)a Palma heavy barrel-no.14 (.900 muzzle dia. and 1.25 breech dia.)The twist rate is 1-13.It is the only barrel I want to use in the future-if I can help it and it does not have to be a 1-13 twist.

So it must be improve cylinder choke then

I had the first two sighters of the bench hit about an inch apart in the bullseye.I think this was the third week in a row with the exact POI.I cant remember if I removed the copper before I shot.I know I took out the carbon.I This time I cleaned it down to the metal (3 JB cycles) to get it ready for next time.

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:
Every time I scrolled down and got a new picture of absolute gibberish on a target and then a detailed explanation of what was happening I actually laughed out loud.
.....

CH, Thank you, too!

Ever since you posted this, when I see another target, your words "absolute gibberish" keeps running thourgh my mind.

Had to step away from the keyboard for almost an hour to stop laughing about that last target before I could even type!

quote:

Originally posted by RaySendero:

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:
Every time I scrolled down and got a new picture of absolute gibberish on a target and then a detailed explanation of what was happening I actually laughed out loud.
.....

CH, Thank you, too!

Ever since you posted this, when I see another target, your words "absolute gibberish" keeps running thourgh my mind.

Had to step away from the keyboard for almost an hour to stop laughing about that last target before I could even type!

I certainly agree. I'm just wondering what brand of shotgun he uses.

Ken....

Shot this target yesterday.I had a bad sight picture.
[URL= ]not that good[/URL]
I should have stuck to my original plan to concentrate on the whole target relative to the bullseye.I abandon the plan when I got discouraged after seeing my where my first few shots hit but I just needed warming up.
Anyways,I got the tumbler going and I will try again next time.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I had a bad sight picture.

Have you tried shooting with your eyes open?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I had a bad sight picture.

Have you tried shooting with your eyes open?

That would screw up his whole scheme.

I've been shooting for a very long time and to this day I've never shot that many holes in one target, with the exception of patterning a shotgun! After the first 5-6 you don't know what you're doing anymore anyway.

I get the feeling that shootway's motto is 'beat me, beat me, make me feel loved'.

"absolute gibberish"

LOL - You Go shootway

This thread just gets better and better!

I shot this target today.I shot standing in a downpour and visibilty was such that I could not see any orange.I went with my plan to shoot center relative to the whole target.I brought 5 rounds loaded with 155gr A-max bullets along to see how they would shoot in this barrel.I have been shooting 165BT all along.To my surprise they grouped within an inch whereas my 165`s grouped within 4 inches.I will load 155`s for my next shoot.
[URL= ]100yds[/URL]

I know better, but I just can't help it. Has the concept of putting up a NEW TARGET for each load you are testing escaped you? I mean targets are not all that expensive!

You can see that the usual concentration of shots to the top right is absent on this target.That came from not chasing an out of focus orange circle and concentrating on the center relative to the entire target.
I just finished cleaning the rifle and after spraying WD-40 in the bore, just prior to using JB during several cleaning sessions, I find I get quicker and better cleaning.

shot this off the bench today
[URL= ]off the bench[/URL]
and this offhand
[URL= ]offhand[/URL]
bad sight picture- not enough light

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
shot this off the bench today
[URL= ]off the bench[/URL]
and this offhand

[URL= ]offhand[/URL]
bad sight picture- not enough light

Appears you're on to something... might as well shoot freehand from the looks of those targets.

What is the yardage these were shot at?

Open sights or scope?

100yds open sights.
It seems like I am shooting worst the more I shoot.
I am going to try more dry fire practice.

I bought a 32 inch super heavy Walther Lothar barrel today in 1-12 twist for when I rebarrel
my next rifle.
The guy I bought it from said that it is made with Krupp steel-I special hard German steel.
He said the barrel will last longer and shoot better than my Krieger.I have always wanted to try WL barrels and Krupp steel barrels.
So far the Krieger no.14 is the champ of all the barrels I used for my shooting offhand and running the barrel hot.
I heard that WL also makes a special polygonal barrel for use in situations where they are run hot-something about round rifling versus sharp and how sharp edges dont stand up to heat very well.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I heard that WL also makes a special polygonal barrel for use in situations where they are run hot-
something about round rifling versus sharp and how sharp edges dont stand up to heat very well.

The disadvantage with regular rifling[lands with 90 deg. sides] is that typical bullet deformation does not form as good
a seal, as they do against lands that have angled[5r] sides, or radius[polygonal] geometry.
Regular land design barrels have more surface area exposure to hot gas-jet effect leakage,passing between bullet and barrel.
Reduce that leakage, and you will improve the life of ones barrel.
Another way to reduce barrel eroding hot gas leakage, would be to use bullet designs that form a better seal.

A regular WL .30cal barrel has bore dia. of .300" and groove .308"
with its polygonal design .30cal, it has .298" and .307" respectively.

Krieger offer 5r rifling in both .298" and .300" bore options, for .30cal

I would imagine that a Walther-Lothar polygonal in 17-4 grade stainless, would offer quite a good life expectancy.

It has nothing to do with what you are saying- leakage and crap.It is how a flame eats on the sharp edge of steel compared to a rounded edge.
Welders know about this.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It has nothing to do with what you are saying- leakage and crap.It is how a flame eats on the sharp edge of steel compared to a rounded edge.
Welders know about this.

one more time for the dummies.....

The worse the seal the greater the volume of hot gas leakage/jet effect between projectile and barrel,
hence the poorer sealing traditional 90deg. edge design rifling receives more exposure to damaging gas/heat,
...than do the other [more efficient sealing] designs of rifling, like 5r or polygonal.

Barrels wear out due to;

1./ Thermal erosion.
2./ Chemical erosion.
3./ Mechanical erosion.

Propellants with nitrogen-rich binder or filler compounds act to re-nitride bore surfaces during firing and inhibit erosive surface reactions.
The result is increased bore hardness, increased resistance to effects of temperature and reduced chemical erosion.
The lowered hydrogen concentration in the combustion gas of some of these propellants, are said to also reduce hydrogen-assisted cracking of the bore surface.

Shot this target today.
[URL= ]100yds offhand[/URL]
I tried something else today and it seemed to work.I should say a couple of things.I cant believe how the Palma 14 is doing.Almost 2000 rds and very little erosion.Night and day difference over the Palma 15.
I wish I had some scotch to celebrate.I will settle for a couple of beers instead.Scotch and all booze is very expensive in Quebec.
The shooting ballerina is back!

Your targets make no sense,,goodbye!

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Your targets make no sense,,goodbye!

I suppose that when you watch a boxing match you wish to see every swing connect.If they dont then there is something wrong and it is time for a goodbye.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Here we see that after cleaning the rifle took three shots to settle before it was able to group at 100yds.

I keep looking but see no "group"?

Are you saying that spraying bullets at game in the field is a preferred shooting technique?

In shooting it is a goal that EVERY SHOT connect especially when you are shooting at game.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Your targets make no sense,,goodbye!

I suppose that when you watch a boxing match you wish to see every swing connect.If they dont then there is something wrong and it is time for a goodbye.

http://s1115.photobucket.com/u...ia/DSCN1744.jpg.html

Okay, While I am certainly not trying to impress anyone, here is an example of a recent target fired prone with a sling (HP slow fire prone, single loading with an AR15A2 at 200 yds into an MR 52 target (reduced to replicate the dimensions of the 600 yard target) X ring, as you can see is a bit larger than 1".

Ammo was 75 grn Hornady BTHPs, 2.250 COAL, CCI 450 primer, 23.6 grains Varget, LC brass ~2675 fps, ~ 14 fps SD. Barrel is a 20" Green Mountain 1/7 inch twist chambered in 223 Wylde. Standard reload disclaimer in effect! Wx was calm clear and mirage was barely flowing right to left, 70 deg F.

10 shots. I definitely was following through.

Rifle is a standard High Power service rifle, heavy SS bbl, free float barrel/hand guard, 1/4 min sights, Extreme 2 stage trigger at 4.75 lbs, sling used is a Turner Biothane. Sights: .046 rear aperture, .072 front post, 6 o'clock hold.

I did not adjust sights as the target was shaded and I could not see the 22 cal bullet holes with my spotting scope so I just dialed in the range and target zero data, and fired.

Offhand, meh, I don't do quite as well even with the somewhat larger 10 and X rings of the SR target....

Firer: 52 YO arthritic, presbyopic and myopic