The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Predictable accuracyGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Predictable accuracy | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
He is getting blasted because he is blaming the vertical dispersion is due only to fouling. All he would have to do to prove himself wrong is shoot to 30 round off a benchrest. He could also evaluate his shooting without any "fouling drop" with a 22 LR but he doesnt. He keep preaching some sort of fouling voodoo. | |||
|
| one of us |
A 22 is a 22 and a 308 is a 308.To assume every cartridge will behave the same way is just inexperience. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Shootaway, To assume shots are dropping due to fouling is silly. You are the only person on the planet with that goofy theory. You are just wasting time, money, ammo and barrels using your poor off hand shooting as an analytical tool. Do you really think every .308 drops shots due to fouling? Do you really think that a .308 bench rest rifle drops shots due to fouling? Let's see tell me if the following drop shots due to fouling just copy and paste yes or no by each one. .22 LR .22 Hornet .222 Rem 6X47 benchrest 6mm REm .243 .25/06 6.5 Carcano 6.5 Dutch 6.5X55 6.5 Arisaka .270 Win 7X57 Mauser 7mm Rem Mag .30 Herrett .30-30 bolt gun and lever gun .30-06 .303 British 7.65 Mauser 8X57 Mauser .338 Win Mag .35 Rem .358 Win .375 Win .375 h&H 38-55 Win Just tell me how many of them drop shots low due to fouling. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Listen, I am going to be polite and firm here: No one shoots better offhand than they do off the bench. You are not an exception to the rule. You perceive your equipment (fouling in this case) could be causing problems, and I disagree. There are so many variables at play here that I cannot mention them all. Join a highpower shooting club and you will improve and your fouling issues will be reduced significantly. Surprisingly, the more you shoot, the less significant the fouling will become. Not because there is less fouling but because you are practicing. Cheers, Matt | |||
|
| one of us |
Here is the sighting in target from todays shooting. The rifle needed only three shots to settle in(orange circle).It then shot a 4 shot group in the center(ignore the small bullet holes originally on the target). The conditions were cold(minus 9 celsius)and windy both combined to make steadying the rifle very difficult-muscle coordination was affected. [URL=  ]100yd sighting in target[/URL] Here is the offhand target. There are no shots dropping because the the bore was cleaned to the metal before shooting. Next time out I will shoot a group off the bench after all the shots are fired offhand to see what effect the fouling had on accuracy. Since I am out of brushes again,you will see the drop in POI on the targets I will post next time caused by heavy fouling. [URL=  ]offhand[/URL] | |||
|
| One of Us |
Alright, I'll get baited into this one more -- last -- time. All targets exhibit spraying and praying, in my opinion. But I do see a high "group" albeit 6" vertical and 30" horizontal. And an "low group" approximately the same size. That suggests you have two very distinct positions on the stock. Still sounds hopeless. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Just out of curiosity--how do we know you are shooting these at 100 yds?  | |||
|
| One of Us |
You need a slightly tighter choke on that shotgun... "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
|
One of Us |
Exactly! Looks like a few rounds of double ought buckshot at 40 yards. Maybe a 10 gauge magnum?  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
|
One of Us |
I'd say that he's got a problem with the barrel crown. He needs to run a 7/16 drill up there a bit to correct this terrible shooting!   NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
|
Moderator |
exactly how quickly do wear out your brushes? i'm very interested in seeing how and where your rifle groups from the bench before and after the offhand shooting. | |||
|
| one of us |
I use one for every cleaning session. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I posted earlier about assessing the rifle and your ability. Many "fliers" are not fliers at all, but the true group size. You have to remove as many variables as you can to assess a problem. You need to shoot from a steady bench off of bags. I hate to break it to you but you do not shoot offhand well enough to assess anything. Now I will tell you this. Many people have used and still use the 308 Win in NRA Highpower competition. This is an 88 shot course of fire with 80 record shots and 8 sighter shots, 2 from each position. The last string is slow-fire prone done at 600 yds or a reduced scale target simulating 600 yards. These shots must be 1-1/2 MOA to be competitive. The bores are plenty dirty and almost no one cleans their bores during the match. Get a quality air rifle and practice offhand. International Air Rifle is shot @ 10 meters with the 10-ring being a half of a millimeter. To be competitive at even the local level, you have to be shooting in the mid 90's, 95% for example. That is to be competitive, the winners will be higher than that. You are throwing away too many serviceable brushes. If you use them wet with a copper solvent, simply rinse them off very soon after use with mineral spirits or similar and blow them dry (or air dry). Moly coating is another variable. Many competitors tried it and most abandoned it. They knew how a gilded jacket acted and how to maintain the bore for optimum accuracy. A few relearned everything and switched to moly, but the vast majority figured it wasn't worth it. Now I am not saying moly is voodoo like cyro turned out to be, but moly requires rethinking bore care. It isn't worth it to me. Edited poor spelling! PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
|
One of Us |
Moderator, surely it is time to move this post to the shotgunning section or maybe even the funny shooting section. It is extremely hard to concentrate on the serious and informative posts on this site when I can't stay on my chair in front of the screen  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Airgun is exactly right. Back when I shot competition, I never cleaned a rifle during a National Match Course. Cleaned it at night before the next round, but not during the match. And, I used .308 in service rifle competition, not bolt guns. | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| one of us |
I will try and shoot again today. The rifle has been cleaned but not down to the metal. I will post a target of the first sighting in shots again and see if there was a POI shift with the last sighting in target. | |||
|
| one of us |
Here is the sighting in target. I first shot off the bench to see where the rifle was shooting and if it kept its POI from last session. The 3 highest shots on the target are the first shots fire. The rifle then went on to shoot a 4 shot group just over the bottom left orange square. I kept on shooting and it shot the horizontal group to the left of the center circle. It shows that the rifle is just a little to the left of the last sighting in target. I then moved the rear sight to the right to prepare for offhand shooting. It turns out I moved it too much to the right. Everything was done in less than a half an hour so there was no time for perfection. The three shot group to the right of the target-the two shots on each side of the right bottom orange square and the single shot above them in the orange circle make the three shot group fired after the offhand session. This group shows how fouling has opened the group size and dropped the shots. [URL=  ]100yd sighting in[/URL]Here is the offhand target. It shows how fouling has opened up group size and started to drop shots. [URL=  ]100yds offhand[/URL] | |||
|
One of Us |
That isn't much better then your barrel life is it? Ken.... "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so. " - Ronald Reagan | |||
|
One of Us |
This is very painful to share in Sir. There are many folks here willing to help is your desire was for help. Fouling has a very small chance of being the problem. Very small. If it is the problem, you can simply not prove it by shooting offhand, or in freezing weather or howling winds, you will only expose yourself to freezing and other negative things most people would not enjoy. Good luck. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
|
| one of us |
shootaway is rocking!   | |||
|
| One of Us |
 in an alternate dimension----------------------- | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ooooops They are dropping You need a new brush ....  --------------------------------------------  ----------------------------------- | |||
|
| one of us |
shootaway I have used Moly bullets in 223 and 308 competition rifles, and I did not have any problems, switching between the two or wandering groups after cleaning. I am going to sugggest the following. Take thatrifle to the range on a calm nice day, with a clean dry barrel. Shoot 5 shots on ONE target. Let the barrel cool for several minutes, then again shoot 5 rounds on a new target... Repeat this 5 times. Let the barrel totally cool. Then on a new target, shoot a 20 round group, keeping track of where each shot hits, as the barrel warms up. You must do this from a solid shooting position, on a calm day. I think there might be something wrong with something in your system, scope bedding, bad barrel etc. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| one of us |
Also I hae shot some rifles several hundred rounds in a single day, ie AR 15/M16's up to 1000 rounds in a single day, AK 47's up to 1000 rounds in a day, and 308 Sniper and semiautos up to 600 rounds in a single day, with out cleaning, and NEVER had any accuracy problems... Not saying you do not have a bad barrel that fouls badly, and then shoots badly, but something "bad is happening badly" that is for sure...  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
It's interestig that shitispants deleted his smart arsed comment to Tony. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Perhaps he's not quite as stupid as he seems... I still think he should try a modified choke tube to tighten things up. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think he should call Daisy and see if there's a recall on his Red Ryder. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
|
| one of us |
Temperature warming up a little-minus 2 celsius today.Wish I had better ground to stand on. [URL=  ]100yd target[/URL] | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've seen better shooting from a boat... "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
|
One of Us |
This thread is way past the pathetic phase, STWY why are posting targets that look like that and demand an answer??? Are you serious? I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
|
| One of Us |
shootaway is rocking! he's had us all. | |||
|
| one of us |
I can't believe I scrolled all the way through these posts and looked at pictures with no discernible pattern to their shooting. I thought this was about foul shots being unpredictable. sputster | |||
|
One of Us |
I had the same pattern as well with my Remington 700 Titanium in .30-06: After about 20 Shots the accuracy dropped fast and after cleaning it VERY WELL - it was OK again, foul shoots after cleaning... It costed me tons of amo and hours at the range to find out, WHY the rifle once did not shoot well anymore... It is always essential to know Your rifle well! | |||
|
| one of us |
I agree. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Maybe you should call Gary L Anderson. He knew his rifle. I think he could shoot 10 rounds into 10 CM at 300 meters off hand.... | |||
|
| one of us |
Shootaway, Please try this, and post each target, so we can see how the different groups develop. Also check your action screws after each group, are they loosening up as you shoot??? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
You guys are falling for it again. Shootaway is engaging in the ages old canadian pastime of leg pulling. There's nothing a Canuck enjoys more that walking into a room full of people, saying something controversial and then sitting back and watching the fireworks! I've been watching his antics here for a long time and he's a master at it, my father in law used to be pretty good at it too. He'll never admit it but when I saw his post about wearing the helmet for shooting that's when I knew for sure what was going on. | |||
|
| One of Us |
If his goal is to be considered mentally incompetent to own and use a firearm he has succeeded well. | |||
|
One of Us |
Accuracy for some is unatainable for others some rifles only shoot poor at best its all in what you are happy with like the guy who hasent cleaned his lever gun for 15 years maybe he only shoots elk at 40 yds in dark timber or maybe he has never got anythihg but his gun still shoots when my 22-250 started shooting 2" groups i had it re barreled this is the onlyone I have that is finikey20 rounds they start flying clean it tight groups there is only a select few who can test loads off hand. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
