I am finally graduating this year!!!! For a graduation gift to myself, I am going to put together a custom rifle. It will be CRF, using either a MRC, M70 or Ruger action. What I am having trouble with is choosing what to chamber it in. I have narrowed it down to three choices: 358 STA, 358-375 Ruger, and 358 UltraCat. For cost effectiveness I am leaning toward the 358-375 Ruger but am curious if it will match the 358 STA performance. Any thoughts on this one would be much appreciated.

The only resonable choice; 358 Norma Magnum
Perfect balanced cartridge, perfect vel with the 250 or even 300 grs bullets.

A sexy looking thing!

M

what's your intended use? roger

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
I am finally graduating this year!!!! For a graduation gift to myself, I am going to put together a custom rifle. It will be CRF, using either a MRC, M70 or Ruger action. What I am having trouble with is choosing what to chamber it in. I have narrowed it down to three choices: 358 STA, 358-375 Ruger, and 358 UltraCat. For cost effectiveness I am leaning toward the 358-375 Ruger but am curious if it will match the 358 STA performance. Any thoughts on this one would be much appreciated.

You might want to give the .358 Norma Magnum a look, it will do anything in North America you want to do. Don't get too hung up on CRF, push feeds are every bit as good.

35 Newton? Using Ruger brass.
358 Norma?
358-300 Win?
350 Rigby?
35-375 HH?
358-338 Lapua?

quote:

The only resonable choice; 358 Norma Magnum
Perfect balanced cartridge, perfect vel with the 250 or even 300 grs bullets.

DITTO that!

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
what's your intended use? roger

Keeping Grizz from eating my family on our camping trip next summer. We plan on going to Alaska.

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:
You might want to give the .358 Norma Magnum a look, it will do anything in North America you want to do. Don't get too hung up on CRF, push feeds are every bit as good.

Looked at it, just want somthing with a little more umph, no belt would be a plus. I narrowed it down to these based on brass availability. My local SG store has 8mm rem mag, 375 Ruger and 338/300 rem ultra mag on hand.

35 Whelen or improved should DRT a bear.
Other non belted 35 Newton, 350 Rigby, 358 Yukon, 358-338 Lapua and that should get 250's at 3,000 fps all day long.

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:
You might want to give the .358 Norma Magnum a look, it will do anything in North America you want to do. Don't get too hung up on CRF, push feeds are every bit as good.

Looked at it, just want somthing with a little more umph, no belt would be a plus. I narrowed it down to these based on brass availability. My local SG store has 8mm rem mag, 375 Ruger and 338/300 rem ultra mag on hand.

In that case, I would go with the .375 Ruger case.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
35 Whelen or improved should DRT a bear.
Other non belted 35 Newton, 350 Rigby, 358 Yukon, 358-338 Lapua and that should get 250's at 3,000 fps all day long.

What is the 35 Newton based off of? Also, is the 358 Yukon a 358-375 Ruger?

The Newton is from 8x68S brass..

M

quote:

I have narrowed it down to three choices: 358 STA, 358-375 Ruger, and 358 UltraCat.

Of the three it would be easier to find an action to handle the .375 Ruger case and less modification required as well.

There are a few magnum classic actions available and one can even use a new carolina made rifle as a base.

Should the Ruger case ever become extinct, you can easily re-barrel to .358 Norma....(no pipsqueak here either)....but the .338 magnum will do what you want done too.

A .358-.375 Ruger should be roughly equivalent to the .358 STA but the .375 H%H magnum would be my preference....it's not going away any time in the future and will provide for anything you can conceive of.....it's a damn excellent cartridge!

quote:

Originally posted by metric:
The Newton is from 8x68S brass..

M

No. Newton measures .529" on the casehead.
Yukon is a shortened Rum case like the AccRel's see Fred Zeglins site about that one. The 375 Ruger is a rip off of the 35 Newton and people use the ruger cases to make Newton cases.

Stay with calibers that will fit in a standard length action. 358 Norma, 375 Ruger or 338Win. If you need a magnum length might as well stay with a 375 H&H and be done with it.

Aaron

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

You might want to give the .358 Norma Magnum a look, it will do anything in North America you want to do. Don't get too hung up on CRF, push feeds are every bit as good.

+ a dozen

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
what's your intended use? roger

Keeping Grizz from eating my family on our camping trip next summer. We plan on going to Alaska.

Since this isn't a sniper rifle and just for mear animals maybe the, Ho-Hum , 35 Whelen would be a good picknic protector . One of my buddies up there carries a 8 mm - 06 and another a 12 gage shotgun roger

Its not a 35 caliber but a 9.3x62 would sure work and be a lot easier and cheaper to feed.

For that purpose, I'm not even sure I'd put out the money for a rifle. We used to provide the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation camera crews protection guns for when they were doing film in grizzly areas...

What we provided were Remington 12 gauge 870 or 1100 shotguns bobbed to an overall length of just over 26" (the legal overall minimum in both the U.S. and Canada, 18" barrel length legal minimum). We cut off the barrels just at the end of the magazine, and the buttstock just behind the pistol grip.

They carried them on the right back edge of their backpacks, so they could reach back with their right hand and grab them by the pistol grip. The mags were loaded with alternate rounds of SSG (similar to "0" buck in its effects) and Brenneke-type slugs. They never had a crew member harmed by a bear while packing one of those, and they did shoot a number of bears, many of which probably didn't deserve it.

So, I'd probably get a used Model 870, trim it and feed it as described, and not worry about it. They are also handy for shooting grouse or ptarmagin up close (with bird-shot, of course).

I happen to love my 358Norma. If they don't have norma brass get some 338wmag brass neck it up and it will work fine. The neck will just be a touch shorter.

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
just want somthing with a little more umph

Why do you think you need more umph? I know its not a self defense situation, but a few yrs ago I DRT'ed my AK Brown Bear @ 30yrds with my 338 WM...he was walking towards us & knew we were there....I didnt feel under-gunned.

I have a 358 Norma, I will christen it this September on a rutting Elk in Grizz country...not worried!

Try looking at the 350 African Express. Fred Zeglin has the reamer for it. Fits a standard length action. 30-06 trajectory with a 250g slug. Make sure you specify a 1:12 twist so you can shoot the spiffy 300g slugs from Woodleigh.

I am "sure" by now has necked a 375 Ruger case to the 358 bore.

The problem with anything more potent than a 35 Wheelen is bullet choices start to diminish. There just aren't that many high velocity 35 caliber rifles out there and the 'standard' twist rate is too slow for heavier slugs.

quote:

Originally posted by Carolina Man:
Stay with calibers that will fit in a standard length action. 358 Norma, 375 Ruger or 338Win. If you need a magnum length might as well stay with a 375 H&H and be done with it.

Aaron

That would be my advice, buy a new M70 in 375 H&H. You can always shoot 250g A-Frames in it at 2800 fps if you want to shoot a lighter bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Its not a 35 caliber but a 9.3x62 would sure work and be a lot easier and cheaper to feed.

Ditto!!!

Why a .35? What do they do that the .375 doesn't do better? You want to put down a ill-tempered griz, you use a .375. Most of the knowledgeable guides do.

Ammunition would be a lot easier to come by and reloading for it is a breeze. All you will do by insisting on a .35 is make life more difficult for yourself.

And congratulations on graduating!

375 ruger - done, over, done with
358 win - kills everything you hit with it

Anyone should have the right to build a rifle of his own choice for what ever reason. So I wish you the best.

My personal view is that the choice of cartridges are almost Wildcats and my experience with wildcats is that you do not use them as much as the regular calibers. I know that there are exceptions.

If I was to stick to a 358 bullet, I would go for the Norma round. Or even the 358 Win, which is a fantastic cartridge and very versatile. It is not the first choice for Grizzley but you did say it was back up gun and not a regular grizzley gun...so.... A 358 Win in a neat Mod70 with 20 inch barrel is perfect. I still kick myself for selling mine.

However, the other options are to go for the 9.3X62 or if you rally want a magnum, then go for the 9.3X64 Brenneke. Both cartridges should handle grizzlies well enough. The 9.3X62 is a real old classic and is easy to shoot in a 9 lbs scoped rifle and can be used on moose, elk etc. That is just me because I have a 9.3X62.

Good luck with the graduation, rifle project and camping trip. Cheers.

quote:

Its not a 35 caliber but a 9.3x62 would sure work and be a lot easier and cheaper to feed.

LJS, Ray & Me, too!

Yeah, not a .358"; a .366"; so you get a tad more for your money.

#2 would be the 375 Ruger.

Like Nakihunter said above; a whole lot easier logistics than a Wildcat.

Happy Graduation.

quote:

Originally posted by metric:
The only resonable choice; 358 Norma Magnum
Perfect balanced cartridge, perfect vel with the 250 or even 300 grs bullets.

A sexy looking thing!

M

+1

Normally, I don't like to respond to these type of threads, but I have to on this one. Why would you ever choose a wildcat cartridge on your first important rifle? Wildcats are for people with lots of time, money, and lots of other guns.

Stay with the basics, and you'll never be disappointed.

Recommendations: 1) .375 H&H 2) 9.3x62 Bolt Gun or 9.3x74 Double Rifle 3) .358 Win in Savage 99 or Browning BLR 4) .30-06 in anything you choose

If you just have to have ultra fast or long range, stick with the .300 (either H&H or WinMag) or the .338 WinMag.

Re-sell on wildcats are near impossible, even for the Weatherby calibers which aren't true wildcats. You can find .375 H&H ammo anywhere in the world that hunting may take you.

If you can only own one caliber rifle for worldwide hunting, it has to be the .375 H&H.

Good luck,
Mike

358 wim, 35 Whelen standard or Ackley, 358 Norma, all fit in a standard action and would do the job at hand, now if you wanted to kick it up a notch how about 416 Taylor?

One can go nuts thinking of all the possibilities! I am a rifle looney and I definitely have more rifles than I need to hunt anything on this planet.

But the fact reminds, if you spend 7000 on a plane ticket and your ammo doesn't arrive, you are either buying ammo or borrowing a strange rifle. And, if you have to buy it in the middle of nowhere, then 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H are the most likely choices that most any place selling ammo will have in stock. anything else is just a roll of the dice and very country specific.

The reality is when I took my 338 Federal to South Africa, I also brought my 30-06 as a back up for both the rifle and ammo problems. The 338 Federal doesn't really exist in Africa but 30-06 you can buy most anywhere selling ammo.

The 375 is really interesting as a back up since one can shoot solids for the little stuff and have very little damage to the trophy. After popping a 40 lb porcupine with the Federal and resulting damage to the pelt, it is unlikely the taxidermist.

However, if you are limited to a standard length action, then the 375 H&H isn't really an option.

I made the same decision once and ended up with the .358 STA. It out performs the .375 H$H considerably with all weight bullets and has more choices. Bullets from 185 grains up to 310 grains and throwing them all considerably faster. The .375 is certainly a great round but if you want the dangerous stuff the .416's are better, if you can handle them. My african battery of .358 STA and .416 Rem were perfect for me, I would not try to speak for anyone else. I now have two STA's because my son saw what mine did to Elk and just had to try it. With the 225 grain North Fork it is very fast, with the 250 ort 270 grain bullets it is awswome on larger animals. The Norma is a fine round, the 9.3 is great, you couldn't go wrong there either. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
I made the same decision once and ended up with the .358 STA. It out performs the .375 H$H considerably with all weight bullets and has more choices. Bullets from 185 grains up to 310 grains and throwing them all considerably faster. The .375 is certainly a great round but if you want the dangerous stuff the .416's are better, if you can handle them. My african battery of .358 STA and .416 Rem were perfect for me, I would not try to speak for anyone else. I now have two STA's because my son saw what mine did to Elk and just had to try it. With the 225 grain North Fork it is very fast, with the 250 ort 270 grain bullets it is awswome on larger animals. The Norma is a fine round, the 9.3 is great, you couldn't go wrong there either. Good shooting.

Shooting a .375 H&H is of no consequence if you can shoot a .30-06. For the naysayers, it's all in their minds.

And by the way, have you ever shot a wildcat in one of the potent calibers. They are punishing.

They's a reason why H&H, Win, Rigby, Marlin, and all the Germans designed cartridges that are so efficient with minimal felt recoil. They worked, and they were accurate.

There's someone around every corner trying to sell you the faster, the hotter, the flatter, the cooler; don't fall for it. Read your history of calibers, gunmakers, and laws determining calibers before making your decison.

Stay fundamental, solid, based, and proven, and you will make a good decison.

What ever caliber you decide on;
DO NOT BUY CHEAP BULLETS
Use premium bullets that will not fail.

Cheers, John

quote:

It will be CRF, using either a MRC, M70 or Ruger action.

Someone correct me here.....I know Ruger makes an action with a claw extractor.....but is it really CRF?

quote:

I know Ruger makes an action with a claw extractor.....but is it really CRF?

Yep the first action was push feed. The MkII came out as a claw with the bottom of the bolt closed so it was push feed. The thenm quickly made it a true CRF.

If I remember right the original poster stated he wanted STA performance. When you get in the .375 size cases you are going to have recoil. The .358 caliber bullet is a very nice aero package, the 270 grain North Fork being a truly awesome bullet. I used it in Africa on plains game to perfection and it is a real Elk slammer. Now, if you don't like recoil, stay on the porch. Good shooting.

If I remember correctly the 358 STA will require the same length action as the 375 H&H since it's based on the 8mmRem Mag. And what was first mentioned was a choice of three action and CRF. That elmiates Rem, the Ruger is too short unless using a RSM action, that leaves Win. and the Montana action. If you buy a long action model 70 it's only comes in two calibers 375 H&H and 416 Rem. At 1200.00 ea either one of the factory calibers will do the job. The MOntana action I have never seen so can't comment there. My choice would be the 375. You can go to the extra expense of building a 358 STA but you really haven't improved on anything except spending a lot of extra money on a rifle that you will have a problem finding ammo for, reloading brass that is hard to find.
I've not ever shot the 358 STA but I have shot the 358 Norma, Whelen and 358 Win. and like all of them.I a huge fan of 35 cal. rifles. But I have never had any caliber beat me like the damn 7 STW and it's the same case as the STA. My 375 is a pussycat compared to the STW.If your stuck on a 35 then build a 358 Norma and buy some good bullets,

Aaron

My two STA's are Winchester Model 70 Actions, one from the Custom Shop on a Pre-64 action, the other on a Post-64 action that was also Custom built. The long action Model 70 actions are quite plentyful and reasonable prices. ----- My need when I started the .358 project was for a larger diameter bullet that was flat shooting. I had taken a Brown Bear with a .300 Winny and after a close encounter with four bears at the same time felt the need for more bullet, yet still wanted a flat trajectory for the open country Caribou and Elk, the later which I hunt yearly. The STA with a 225 grain bullet at 3150 fps and a 270 grain bullet at 2950 fps fits the bill perfectly. Good shooting.