Looking at all of these medium bore rifle threads and looking to re-barrel a stainless M77 Hawkeye in 22-250 for my dad for a future gift. Maybe a bad weather rifle.

What's your next choice going to be and why? 308,358, 338 federal, 260, 7mm/08, etc

.350 Rem mag. Lots of power in a small convient package. Actually I already have one and couldn't think of another I like as much.

358 is the essayist from where you are starting - I've built quite a few of these-- my favorite is a 21" "soda straw" 1:12 on a 36 mexican mauser in a light weight stock - with irons and a scope -

making brass from 308 is easy (read below for caveats)- take the depriming pin out of the 358 dies, "wet" a qtip with imperial sizing wax and just barely wipe the inside of the cases -- btw, you can do "all" of your cases sitting on the sofa, then resize later .. resize in ONE swift movement - don't try to ease this -- get the neck to just touch the expander, then lean heavily on the lever to push through in one motion.

caveats and warnings:
DO NOT USE NICKLE BRASS for die re-forming - it will "rivet" 70% of the time due to the hardness of the nickle -sub-caveat - i have had decent success in fireforming from 308 to 358 in this brass

check that your TAPERED expander has decent surface finish - the hornday is generally both tapered and smooth -- I have seen other dies that aren't so smooth surface, and are pretty blunt

i would go ahead and order at least 2 expander/decaper pins with the dies, as you might bend them

this works well with new brass, fired brass should be annealed

try to set the expander to NOT hit the bottom of the case

imperial sizing wax is important - and both a little goes a long way AND more is not better

back to 358 -
you can use pistol bullets for plinking - 158s at 2000 to 3000+ fps are a blast for varmits and blasting charcoal brickettes (however that's spelled)

12 is plenty for 225gr gamekings- which are accurate and will have great results on deer and pigs

other choices
308 -- can't go wrong, ammo everywhere, and is the standard all other (length category) rounds are compared with. There is nothing wrong with a 308 - in fact, my truck gun is a 308

708 -- amazing accuracy and smackdown ammo is order it or reload - but it's just .62mm smaller than a 308 -- i LOVE this round - my preferences on this case re 358, 708, 308 then NOTHING else

338 federal - IMHO one of the dumbest rounds ever made -- part of the (technical) issues with the 338-06 is that the .338 bullets are designed for higher impact vels, and the 338fed is even slower - yes, there are 338 fed .338 bullets available, but that's the polar opposite of the selection for the 358 -- SOME of the 338 bullets work well, but ALL of the 358 bullets work well

260/6.5/25x08 -- and all of the shorter and smaller variants (i am looking at YOU, 6.5 cred) -- these are neat - some ammo is available .. but, being sometimes crusty - i don't care .. they don't do anything a 308 can't do .. fit on an AR platform .. uhm, the ar10 was designed before the AR15 .. low recoil .. sure, and barnes makes light 308 bullets as well, super accurate? that's mostly the loose nut on the trigger in today's rifles..

so, for a practical, a 308 - for just the pure joy, a 358 .. and food for thought, the 708

just to trip you up -- have you considered the 257 roberts?

257 Roberts should never be built on a short action; you lose a lot of potential if you do.
As for short actions, I have no use for them, do not use them, and never understood the need to save 1/2 inch on a rifle. Why try to stuff cartridges into them; look at all the questions here on AR; "How long can I make my 294 Blaster in a short action?" If you used a long action, it would be easy. Short cartridges are made for automatic magazine fed weapons where length is important.
I build everything on long actions, including the 308/250 family of cartridges.
And 350 Rem Mags are best built on long actions too. I have built them on Rugers, Remingtons, and Winchester, long actions. Ok, one on a Win short (which are much longer than a Rem short action) and a 7.
The Mauser 98 is the shortest action that needs to exist. In my world, as always.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
257 Roberts should never be built on a short action; you lose a lot of potential if you do.
As for short actions, I have no use for them, do not use them, and never understood the need to save 1/2 inch on a rifle. Why try to stuff cartridges into them; look at all the questions here on AR; "How long can I make my 294 Blaster in a short action?" If you used a long action, it would be easy. Short cartridges are made for automatic magazine fed weapons where length is important.
I build everything on long actions, including the 308/250 family of cartridges.
And 350 Rem Mags are best built on long actions too. I have built them on Rugers, Remingtons, and Winchester, long actions. Ok, one on a Win short (which are much longer than a Rem short action) and a 7.
The Mauser 98 is the shortest action that needs to exist. In my world, as always.

I dunno...a Rem Mod 7 is a pretty handle rifle. I have two; one a .308 Win that I might rebarrel to either .338 Fed or .358 Win just to play with something new.

I have a model 7 in 350; I like it. But sometimes short actions are too short for their own good; for me. Everything I say, is applicable only to me.

I'm with Jeffeosso, I would go with a 358 Win. I have one in a M77 Hawkeye and it's one of my favorites.

I am done. If I ever get another one it will be a 338 Winchester Magnum, or a 348 WCF, or a 375 HH, or a 9.3x66.

The 9.3x66 fits into a 30/06 action.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I have a model 7 in 350; I like it. But sometimes short actions are too short for their own good; for me. Everything I say, is applicable only to me.

I wonder if you could explain that "too short for their own good", dpcd?

The Model 600 has always intrigued me. I like the look of the dog-leg handle on the M17, even though it can bite the hand that feeds it; but what exactly did Remington achieve by taking one forward? At the time it was introduced everyone seemed to want bolt knobs just above the trigger, for quick cycling.

On the matter of short cartridges, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 300 and 325 WSMs. Not that they would be easy to adapt to the OPs rifle, but they are short and quite powerful.

Sambarman,
You may recall that the enfield dogleg goes the otherway --


i suspect that the 600 was done this way as the gun was very compact, and a normal bolt would result in the bolt hitting the hand, as you described in the enfield/biting the hand that feeds you (NICE PUN!!)

it was also the early 60s!! lots of future and space and whizbang going on then

i guess the model 30 might have has some design influence/homage -- but who knows

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dpcd:
I have a model 7 in 350; I like it. But sometimes short actions are too short for their own good; for me.
The 350 Rem can be so much more if the bullets can be seated out just a little further.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Sambarman,
You may recall that the enfield dogleg goes the otherway --
...

Thanks jeffeosso,
sorry if my words 'taking one forward' suggested future planning. I was really trying to explain the M600 handle's being a reverse dogleg.

Looking at dpcd's photo, it looked to me as though Remington had taken it too far, that one dropping straight down would miss most fingers - but maybe the 350RM could prove me wrong.

Snowman, yes, maybe that's what dpcd meant - but sometimes cartridges (cf the 458WM) are designed for specific action lengths.

Knowing Remington's inclination to slow rifling twists, extra magazine length for heavier bullets might not have helped, though higher velocity can increase stability.

The Remington model 600 action was from the XP-100 pistol. Since the action was mostly behind the shooters hand the bolt had a dogleg facing forward. It also helps the model 600 by keeping the bolt handle away from the your hand with the .350 Rem mag, though it never particularly bothered me.

My current rifle is one of the Remington model 673's on a model 7 action. If I was building one I would likely do like dpcd suggests and do it on a Winchester model 70 short action to give it a little more room.

[url=https://postimages.org/] [/url

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Looking at dpcd's photo, it looked to me as though Remington had taken it too far, that one dropping straight down would missed most fingers - but maybe the 350RM could prove me wrong.

Snowman, yes, maybe that's what dpcd meant - but sometimes cartridges (cf the 458WM) are designed for specific action lengths.

Howdy - I hadn't taken your comments as planning to build one
1: i have BIG hands, and the 600 bolt handles haven't ever hit my hand under fire -- snag on stuff, yes.. the bolt handle comes straight down, then forward --

i have been bitten by enfields, and even the odd CZ/BRNO when done up in 100+ft/lb recoil carts -- but never a mohawk

2: on the "too short" comment .. I know DCPD has posted that he doesn't like short actions -- this is a short action rifle -- and that the 350 remmag should be loaded longer than factory, however, this action pairing was designed in, and you can't run it long.

therefore, in the short action remmies, the 350 remmag is limited to it's shortest configuration and performs under it's potential

short action.
old guy.
250 savage.

So what will dear ole dad be doing with this rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by MoreBS:
So what will dear ole dad be doing with this rifle?

He is retiring his .30-06 and I think he would be happy with one of these other calibers that doesn't kick quite as much. His elk rifles are braked .338 Win Mags. I know he likes factory ammunition. So 308 or 7mm-08 sounds like good options for him. Something to handle things around Whitetail size.

I wish I lived in Nevada so I could keep him interested in Big Game hunting. I know nothing of the draw system or how hard it is to get Resident or NonRes tags there.

A nice cushy butt pad like a Hi-Vis 1 inch will help tame it down no matter which caliber you choose. So will a heavy dense stock.
.338 Federal? Run light loads for deer. Heavy for larger game, mulies, etc.

6.5 Creedmoor
Moose to mice
low recoil
Just give it a long 26” barrel to preserve hearing

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Looking at dpcd's photo, it looked to me as though Remington had taken it too far, that one dropping straight down would missed most fingers - but maybe the 350RM could prove me wrong.

Snowman, yes, maybe that's what dpcd meant - but sometimes cartridges (cf the 458WM) are designed for specific action lengths.

Howdy - I hadn't taken your comments as planning to build one
1: i have BIG hands, and the 600 bolt handles haven't ever hit my hand under fire -- snag on stuff, yes.. the bolt handle comes straight down, then forward --

Snag an m600 bolt handle on stuff? They lay about as flat against the stock as any bolt action ever made which is one reason they are great saddle guns. That takes some special talent.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
That takes some special talent.

sigh -- i had written a nice post, extolling the tribulations of hunting in a place that has a natl preserve called "the big thicket" (Think Hoh, shrunk to 1/4 the area, but the same amount of trees, vines, etc) and how everything in Texas is trying to kill you ...

and, in a heavy handed way, show off that i've spent time on the ground in WA, largely the OP....

then clicked it "close" instead of "post" ...


which goes to prove my point -- i can be a special kind of clumsy

Bugle,
I made a “dad” choice for myself as your pondering. 260 Remington was my choice. 140 Nosler partition and go hunting is my plan.

I agree with the .350 Rem. being a little long for some short actions. I have a Rem. 700 Classic in .350, and the 2.8 inch action is a little shorts. It limits the use of a lot of bullets because the beginning of the bullet ogive will be inside the case mouth. The Ruger 77 magazine box is I think 2.9 inches, which would definitely help. I really like the .350 Rem. but wish the action were just a little longer.

Recently I have been working up loads for a Sako M85 in .270 WSM. I think that would make a great deer rifle for your dad. So far I have taken 2 whitetails and 2 aoudad with mine.

Don't forget the cushy pad Buglemin no matter which caliber you go with especially if the new rifle will be lighter than Dads '06.

Right click the yellow picture and select 'open in new window- for a larger picture for sizing if interested.

The Hi-Vis

Hmmmmmmm! Lots of opinnons. Ive not beenmuch of a short action fan for big game rifles, I like the 30-06 length guns..most of my short action guns are lever actions,mostly Savage 99, Browning BLR etc. and I will make an exception for the Ruger Intl.s mine is a 250-3000.

quote:

Originally posted by Buglemintoday:

quote:

Originally posted by MoreBS:
So what will dear ole dad be doing with this rifle?

He is retiring his .30-06 and I think he would be happy with one of these other calibers that doesn't kick quite as much. His elk rifles are braked .338 Win Mags. I know he likes factory ammunition. So 308 or 7mm-08 sounds like good options for him. Something to handle things around Whitetail size.

I wish I lived in Nevada so I could keep him interested in Big Game hunting. I know nothing of the draw system or how hard it is to get Resident or NonRes tags there.

Getting tags in Nevada is not easy. It's a 100% draw state and the only over the counter tags are for Mt Lion.
Elk tags take forever to draw and if successful then you have to wait 10 years before applying again if you shoot a bull. Antelope are 5 years for horns longer than ears. Sheep tags are one and done. At this time there is no wait for putting in for deer tags once you've shot them. However your not going to get a tag every year.

Yes, you are all correct.
Putting a 350 on a 600, or 700 short action, was a bad idea, but marketers and designers do not make rifles for AR members; they made them for hunters, who might want a lot of power in a very small package, do not hand load, and do not care if the bullet occupies 1/2 inch of the potential powder space. But we all want more and different, which is why I build them on long actions; I do have one on a short Model 70, which is not nearly as short as a 700 and definitely longer than a 600. Rifling twist is not an issue. The one in the laminated beech and walnut stock is actually a 7.
Bolt handle design? Look at the vent rib and remember the year, and you will know; it was just for cool, space age, looks. Maybe to miss your finger a bit too. Probably not inspired by an Enfield in reverse.
My favorite 350 is my tang safety, Ruger 77, long action, factory 350 barrel, in a boat paddle stock. No the factory didn't make that.

I think the .308 would suit him best, but a 7-08 if he isn't a reloader would be a dandy for deer and elk, that's about all Nevada has to offer, and it will do for the lower 48 under any condiditons, and recoil is mild indeed..Im a 30-06 fan and my lever guns are 308, not much, if any difference can be seen in reference to trajectory or game killing effect between the two on game under field conditions...