I've seen Cabelas and Bass Pro Shop advertising .350 Legend ammo.

It appears to be directed towards AR-type rifles.

Anyone know anything about it?

BH63

Close to a 357 Max rimless, or basically a straight walled 223 Rem case. Designed for the straight walled deer cartridge laws in OH, IA, etc... Uses a .357" bore I believe.

I have just been reading all about it in the latest issue of Shooting Times. It indeed has the .357" bullet, but the rim is rebated slightly to fit AR platforms.

It looks to be a useful addition for those hunters with 'straight case' State legislation. Very little use for anyone in Britain, though.

HB

Thanks, now I know.

Next question? What is the rationale for using straight walled cartridges?

I never heard of that before.

BH63

The idea is that they are less powerful and you are less likely to shoot through somebody’s house way out yonder, or reach the highway hitting a car coming by, or some unknown pedestrian who is past sight line.

I have always maintained such regs are nothing more than gun control.

Hunting for decades, not anymore, was our number one shooting sport. So, if you do not let folks hunt deer with bottle neck common calibers and rifles chambered for them, then folks will not buy (possess) them.

Some states do not or did not allow any centerfire rifles. Slugs and black powder only.

it's also known as the never has been.

Interesting. I grew up in KY and many counties were shotgun slug only for deer. This made sense, since my much of the rural areas were horse farms that had horses worth millions.

Straight case rifle cartridges seem an entirely different scenario, since theoretically you could shoot a .470 NE or any powerful cartridge with straight cases (unless there are velocity restrictions as well).

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
Interesting. I grew up in KY and many counties were shotgun slug only for deer. This made sense, since my much of the rural areas were horse farms that had horses worth millions.

Straight case rifle cartridges seem an entirely different scenario, since theoretically you could shoot a .470 NE or any powerful cartridge with straight cases (unless there are velocity restrictions as well).

BH63

The entire state is any centerfire cartridge now. Individual counties are not allowed to pass more restrictive laws.

A 470 would technology violate straight wall cartridge restrictions. It is bottled necked, but the 450 NE or 500 NE would be okay.

All the big straight wall cartridges though powerful are considered close range low ballistic coefficient cartridges. I guess a few folks can Qugily Down Under it.

With the slug guns and slug you have today, I simply do not see the range limitations. They may not shoot as far as traditional, bottled neck cartridges but they are not smoothbore pumpkin throwers.

Ohio restricts caliber to no larger than .50 bullet diameter so the 500 ne,50-70, 50-90,and other sharps calibers are not legal here for deer. Biggest legal I know of is 470 capstick and 458 Lott.

Some of the states with the straight wall cartridge restriction also have a limit on the case length. 1.8 inches seems to be the most common length restriction.

i think it would be a winner in a small turnbolt gun

.350 Legend is a pretentious marketing name given to a .358 caliber straight wall cartridge based on the .223 case. It is very similar to a rimless version of the .357 Maximum. However, it is no legend!

legend noun
leg·​end | \ ˈle-jənd \

Definition of legend

a: a story coming down from the past especially : one popularly regarded as historical although not verifiable the legend of a lost continent Arthurian legends

b: a body of such stories a place in the legend of the frontier

c: a popular myth of recent origin the legend of the Loch Ness monster

d: a person or thing that inspires legends

.

It has to have a name and Legend is as good as any, real legend or not.
It was designed for the AR platform to be used for deer; for that purpose it is good. If you go with a bolt action, then just make it a 35 Remington.

Winchester makes a bolt gun for the round.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
It has to have a name and Legend is as good as any, real legend or not.
It was designed for the AR platform to be used for deer; for that purpose it is good. If you go with a bolt action, then just make it a 35 Remington.

good thought, however, there's MANY 223 savage bolt guns laying around that are a 30 minute task to convert .. i have one, even

There's lots of info out there. It's a pretty odd one. But it's basically a .357 Max rimless with undersized .355" projectiles.

Can't fault a company for trying to sell a product. No one's forcing anyone to buy one, so if you're not interested, then don't spend your money. It's really that easy. I'm happy that there are options from .17 to .700 for any reason. The rest of you grouches should brighten up.

I'm fine with .35 Remington too but I can't fit 30+ of those in any magazine, brass is far more expensive and no one's making guns with .460" bolt faces.

I'd be willing to bet that the Suppressed AR people will adopt it too. But .50 Beowulf, .450BM and .458 Socom's already got that heavy/slow thing covered.

This guy uses a lot of words if you like reading:
https://www.realguns.com/articles/1106.htm
https://www.realguns.com/articles/1111.htm
https://www.realguns.com/articles/1124.htm

Wow, they just reinvented the .351 Winchester. I have made cases for the .351 from .223 brass but .357 Max. cases are better. In an ar style gas gun it probably wouldn't be bad at all.
C.G.B.

Where did anyone get the idea that it uses .355 bullets? It uses standard .357/8 bullets.
And, 35 Remingtons work fine in standard 30=06 bolt faces; I have done many of them that proves that.
True, large capacity magazines are "IN" for deer hunting, for the young guys.
We old guys just need the one shot.

another attempt to sell stuff to the curious

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
another attempt to sell stuff to the curious

or a handy way to keep hunting alive in "Straight walled" pistol caliber only regions ...

I like the 450 Bushmaster better. Why drive a muscle car with a small block when it can be had in a big block.

where the 355 idea come from was trying to chamber 358 diameter bullets.
then 357, then 356 sorta finally fit.
plus the 355 groove diameter of the barrel is also what we call a clue.

Winchester hurriedly added in the +.003 designation to make it a legal hunting round in the straightwall states.

if you read the regulations your only required to possess ammunition with the box MARKED as 357 or 358 diameter it doesn't have to actually be that size.

Ok, wow, I learned something; I just assumed that everyone would be smart and make it a standard 357/8 groove diameter, but it seems it is really a 9mm. Very bad idea for reloaders.
Now, I predict it will be useful only for factory cartridge buyers, and will not be as successful as it could have been. I, for one, tend to get new stuff just to test it out. Not now, although I was going to get one.
I will stick with the 450 Bush and 458 Socom (I called it the 11.6 SPC), on ARs.
The 350 sounds like a loser for hand loaders if you can't use common bullets. Even though standard 357 pistol bullets would not be suitable for the higher velocities, you could still use them for practice, just as you can with the 450 and 458. Standard groove sizes.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
where the 355 idea come from was trying to chamber 358 diameter bullets.
then 357, then 356 sorta finally fit.
plus the 355 groove diameter of the barrel is also what we call a clue.

Winchester hurriedly added in the +.003 designation to make it a legal hunting round in the straightwall states.

if you read the regulations your only required to possess ammunition with the box MARKED as 357 or 358 diameter it doesn't have to actually be that size.

spec calls for .357 bullets
https://winchester.com/350-Legend

"STRAIGHT-WALLED CARTRIDGE SPECS
Bullet Diameter: .357 inch
Shell case Length: 1.71 inches"

and, course SAAMI
https://saami.org/wp-content/u...-Drawing-Website.pdf

".357" ..

the plural of anecdote is not data

Pretty much a magnum revisited 351 Winchester Self Loading.

Wasn't hat the 35 patrone, a carbine case necked up to 357, an old old wildcat with a new hat it appears..I think Ackley makes reference to it in vol. no. 1, best I recall..I shot one on a beautiful custom sako pistol some many years ago made by Tony Barnes..As I recall it only held two down and one in the chamber..

what spec calls for and what we been trying to shove in the rifles have been 2 different things.

the only thing keeping me from returning the rifle is cast bullets and having the appropriate size dies on hand.

Shoot 9mm bullets in this “Legend”?
That could keep costs down to shoot.

Actually took delivery of an AR15 350 Legend upper yesterday. Waiting on magazines now. Will let you know how it works.

what do you think about reloading with 9mm pistol bullets?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
what do you think about reloading with 9mm pistol bullets?

Well having played with 9mm in my 357max.

At full velocity.

You well find them very explosive when they hit their target.

If you like turning things into mush have at it.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Where did anyone get the idea that it uses .355 bullets? It uses standard .357/8 bullets.
And, 35 Remingtons work fine in standard 30=06 bolt faces; I have done many of them that proves that.
True, large capacity magazines are "IN" for deer hunting, for the young guys.
We old guys just need the one shot.

You're missing the point. There are states that permit straight walled cartridges only for deer hunting. The 350 Legend is designed for them. I used a 357 Max as my primary deer gun when I lived in Illinois (TC Contender 10")

The factory Winchester ammo is all .355. That is actual pulled bullet measurements. That cartridge got pushed through so quick to distribution that Win. Employees didn't even know the dimensions or facts. They threw out a bunch of fuzzy numbers and called it a legend. Ruger would have done far better with a cartridge of their design.

quote:

Originally posted by Greg K:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Where did anyone get the idea that it uses .355 bullets? It uses standard .357/8 bullets.
And, 35 Remingtons work fine in standard 30=06 bolt faces; I have done many of them that proves that.
True, large capacity magazines are "IN" for deer hunting, for the young guys.
We old guys just need the one shot.

You're missing the point. There are states that permit straight walled cartridges only for deer hunting. The 350 Legend is designed for them. I used a 357 Max as my primary deer gun when I lived in Illinois (TC Contender 10")

I think his point is there are other, better straight wall cartridges for deer hunting in those restrictive states, but this lets shooters more geared to the AR platform hunt with those rifles. Consequently, allowing more ARs, uppers, magazines, and from Winchester’s concern more ammo to be sold. Thus, the 350 Legend is really more gimmick than advancement and borders on unneeded.

The AR, 350 or even 350 bolt is not my style. I hunt deer with 375 Ruger. But if it gets one more younger adult in the deer woods, then I am happy.

I know the 35 Rem is not straight walled. However, this thread long established the basic idea is a cartridge designed for restricting states.

Mosberg has just released the Patriot rifle in 350 Legend. Now, you can get a Legendary Patriot.

For plinking and jack rabbits, it is a great cheap option. No?

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
what do you think about reloading with 9mm pistol bullets?

Well having played with 9mm in my 357max.

At full velocity.

You well find them very explosive when they hit their target.

If you like turning things into mush have at it.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

Mosberg has just released the Patriot rifle in 350 Legend. Now, you can get a Legendary Patriot.

sigh .. off to the gun store i will go .. and i know how to fix a pesky too tight throat, ifin i need to

I'm a 1944 LEGEND !

Hip

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
For plinking and jack rabbits, it is a great cheap option. No?

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
what do you think about reloading with 9mm pistol bullets?

Well having played with 9mm in my 357max.

At full velocity.

You well find them very explosive when they hit their target.

If you like turning things into mush have at it.

A 115 gr jhp at legend velocity would turn jack rabbits inside out.

Is this a new case and not a 223 case? From what I read, they did a few extra steps to make this work when forming the case. It is not a parallel sided case (It actually has nominal taper) and the base is not .376” like a 223. It seems this is slightly rebated. You could stuff this case with a 9,3 bullet to have a truly parallel sided case. 9,3-350 Legend for subsonic?