The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting hard cast bullets.....disappointed hunterGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| hard cast bullets.....disappointed hunter | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
Has anyone here, (other than ElandSlayer), used Federal Cast Core 300gr on game? Well, at least have an OK day  | |||
|
One of Us |
There is nothing wrond with the Federal Cast Core load The bullet is from Cast Performance and The only problem is the shot was too far back and the lungs were only hit in the rear portion and allowing the animal to continue to breath The vitals are much farther forward than American game _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
One of Us |
I respect your opinions and experiences very much jwp475.....however, my initial shot was not all that far back. It was perfectly on the crease of the shoulder. Granted.....I didn't hit the heart, but no animal should live for an hour with holes thru both lungs. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have shot and seen shotdeer and antelope with fourty five ACP ball ammo (round nose full metal jacket) through both lungs and none nothing has live an hour I know that the Oryx that I shot is when I realized that the vitails are much farther forward that american game> I have shot and killed too many head of game quickly and cleanly with hard cast bullet just like the one that you used too be blaming the bullets Two posters on this sight had bullets pull crimp in a FA revolver and they blamed the revolver rather than place blame where it belonged which was with the ammo _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
one of us |
I agree, JWP, Whitworth, BFRshooter MShitman and a bunch more of us have killed a lot of game with hard cast bullets. Because they work. On big game, lung shots can take a little while to work, don't push game right away. Unless you see it fold up like a cheap dish rag. Don't discount hard cast bullets on one experience. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
|
| One of Us |
If I just dropped in from Mars and read this thread, I would come away with the view that hardcast bullets are very unforgiving, appropriate only in a narrow range of applications in calibers larger than 44mag. ElandSlayer has objectively posted his experiences and he's been told he made a bad shot, or he shouldn't expect hardcast to work unless he's shooting a .475 or that his experience is somehow not valid because it is singular. I've been following this and other ElandSlayer threads trying to learn. I really appreciate his honesty in not only posting a picture of a dead animal, but giving great detail on the hunt and performance of his weapon & ammo. Thank you ES for taking the time to post! Well, at least have an OK day | |||
|
Moderator |
Harcast bullets are not unforgiving in the least. What they are is consistent -- exactly what many jacketed expanding bullets aren't. You can really count on the way they perform. They are much better on bone than expanding bullets as well. There really isn't much not to like about them, well, except that they are not nearly as shiny and pretty. That said, I too appreciate Eland Slayer's honesty and the fact that he put it all out there for scrutiny. I think he got himself a fine trophy and learned a few things in the process. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| one of us |
well said
| |||
|
| one of us |
This is a true story. On my first trip to Zimbabwe I shot a cape buff, broadside at 12 yards, in heavy cover with my 450 No2 double rifle. The bullet a 480gr Woodleigh Soft hit right on the shoulder, and passed right through the heart, knocking a big hole right in the center of it. I have a picture somewhere of me holding the heart. Due to the heavy cover, and other cape buff I only fired the one shot. The buff ran off. It took a few yards to find blood, but we did and we began tracking.... About 150 yards later, we walked up on the buff, it was down,with its back to us, we were in heavy cover, but it began to get up. I quickly put two 480gr Woodleigh Solids into its back one struck the spine. The buff went down.. I ran around to the front of the buff and it was still alive, I put a 44 Mag round from Garrett, out of my 4" S&W into its brain. Some times you just get a tough one.  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
Damn..... _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| Moderator |
Double Damn...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
There are cars that aren't that tough!  | |||
|
| one of us |
Some animals are just tough. I shot a deer (Buck) last year with a Lightfield slug, I hit in on the shoulder, the deer ran about 60 yards and stopped. I took another shot and hit the deer a second time, right behind the shoulder. The deer took off and ran past my buddy about 150 yards away. He shot the deer 2 times as it past him. The deer ran about 120 years into some think cover and was out of sight of my buddy. I got out of my stand an walked over to my buddy. We both tracked the deer and lost the blood trail due the high water in the woods. We stopped, and I heard movement in the thick cover. My buddy went down a trail, and I went toward the noise, and I found the deer, it was just giving its last kicks and died. That deer made it over 350 yards from the first shot, all while being hit 4 times. When I gutted the deer, we were able to see all the damage the slugs had done. My first shot took out part of the shoulder and the top of a lung, my second shot took out the lungs and clipped the heart. My buddies shot were from the opposite side of mine and he also hit the lungs and the shoulder on the other side. With all of them shots in the vital area, that deer traveled a long ways. My point in this is, some animals just don't want to give up the ghost. In all of my 38 years of hunting game, that deer was the toughest animal I had shot. All 4 shots were kill shot. Did the slugs fail, no they did what there were suppose to and worked well. I just happen to pick one tough SOB that day. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
|
| Moderator |
+ 1 Each animal is a law unto itself...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
I shot this hag with a 300 win he went down at the shot. Got up and rane off, left no blood trail and I almost didn't find him and when I did he was still breathing and I put a round from my revolver through the brain. ???  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
+1. Some just refuse to give up and they die slow. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thought you guys might like to know I shot a whitetail doe this past weekend with the same load I shot the Oryx bull with (300 gr. Federal Cast-Core). She died quite fast. 1 shot right on the crease of the shoulder.....ran 25 yards and made a nose dive straight into a huge cactus patch. (guess that was her way of getting even) However, there wasn't hardly any blood to speak of. I will continue to test these bullets on a few more critters before I pass judgement on them. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| Moderator |
Obviously it worked like a charm! Congratulations on the successful hunt! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
one of us |
Are they completely penetrating? Especially on the deer. I have only used the 250 Castcore 41 mag before. Hit a moose in the shoulder joint at 80 yards with it. The bullet dislocated the shoulder although it didnt go completely through the ball joint ( size of a softball easy). The 250 clocks at 1000 fps through my 4" Taurus titanium. For the 41 mag I would use the 250 Castcore on deer but my reloads would be for anything bigger. I get 1050 fps with 293 grain and 1150 fps with 265 grain bullets. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Oh yes.....definitely. All the shots on my Oryx bull penetrated completely. Same with the one I used on the deer... _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| one of us |
Let me add that I have shot several dozen animals with a 308. Some have been bang flops.. But many that have been perfect lung hits, and perfect lung/heart hits, and they have run 25 to 100 yards or so, before falling dead... Same ammo, same hits... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| Moderator |
Yes indeed, each and every animal is a law unto itself. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Eland Slayer; Each type of caliber, bullet, shot, and result, can produce different outcomes under different conditions. In an earlier post you made mention of how bad you felt (feelings) after the Eland incident. Just goes to show that you are a serious hunter, and have respect for the game you pursue, but, to expect a perfect kill in every situation with every cartridge/bullet/firearm combination that you use is a pipe dream. You need to take a sensible (logical) look at all the variables involved......each hunt, each shot, and each outcome will vary....sometimes to a small degree, and at other times to a large degree. If you have done the best you can do...thats all you can do! If you compare the Eland incident to the deer incident, you did everything the same....you hunted and found your quarry, you took the best shot that you could, with the best gun and load for the purpose......but, the outcomes were different....and, thats just hunting! As far as cast versus jacketed. Most "top end" (or custom) bullet makers, especially those that offer jacketed bullets for dangerous game give velocity parameters that their bullets will perform within. In my experience over my 50 years of hunting with both types of bullets, I have found that jacketed bullets are "iffy" at best, for "all" yard ranges, but, if they are used within thier velocity parameters they normally work as advertised. Unfortunately we dont always get to choose the distance that we shoot game at. Cast bullets of the "correct alloy" (or solids) on the other hand have no velocity parameters...they perform the same (or almost the same) regardless of the distance that you shoot your game at, within reason, of course...one hole in, and one hole out. I have been using cast bullets in my handguns for 30+ years, and to my recollection, they have always done the "expected"...no surprises....no drama....but, I use cast bullets differently. I rarely take a heart lung shot, always choosing a high shoulder shot if it is available to me. (I know that some here will disagree, but, I am not offering this up for debate...it is just what I do, and it works for me). This shot produces devistating results, normally affecting the spine, incapacitating the animal, and in most cases (but, not all) killing it on the spot, or, very shortly thereafter, without a finishing shot being necessary. Disableing the "central nervous system" has always, for me, proven to STOP a game animal, and the cast or solid bullet performs that task very well. Also, the cast or solid bullet does not play favorites when it comes to the size of the game that you are shooting.....it performs the same whether the game is thin skinned and small boned, or big boned and large....they are "universal" in thier application and performance. Sorry to ramble on!!! Anyway, you did a good job on both the Eland and the deer....and, your cast bullets in each situation did what they were supposed to do, and performed as most cast bullet shooters would have expected. To expect perfect one shot kills with either type of bullet, or, to expect one type of bullet (jacketed) to out perform another...consistantly...time after time....in "all" situations...is just not in the cards. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks for your opinions and advice. I do appreciate it very much. I have tried to soak up as much advice from you handgun veterans that I can. This is my first year to "actively" hunt with a handgun, so I've still got a lot of learning to do....but I plan to keep doing it. I'm really enjoying it so far. Oh, and just to make sure you're not confused.....the "incident" you were referring to about the animal I had to shoot numerous times with the hard cast bullets was not an Eland, but actually a Scimitar Horned Oryx. The only Eland I've killed was back in 2003 and was with a rifle. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| Moderator |
Flat top, I too like the high shoulder shot. I like to break the animal down, and a hardcast bullet is just the bullet for that shot. I have never seen jacketed bullets (excluding Punch bullets and CorBon Penetrators) break bones with consistency the way a wide meplat, hardcast bullet will. Inconsistency is what mostly keeps me away from expanding jacketed bullets. Sometimes they open, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they exit, sometimes they don't. This isn't the case with the hardcast. You don't have to pick and choose your angles as you know you have penetration to spare. JMHO. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Eland Slayer; For your first year as a hangun hunter you are doing quite well!!! Sorry about the mistaken "incident" thing....heck, I wouldnt know one from the other....  By the way, do you reload?Whit; What I like best about heavy bone/shoulder shots....(as you probably know well), the "secondary projectiles" produced by that type of shot: Adding high velocity bone fragments to the mix increases damage and aids in the killing process. It also "stops" the animal....I hate having to chase after an animal (the older I get, the more I hate to do it), and all the while the thing is in a state of distress. The high shoulder shot either kills or anchors the game in most cases, and "if" a killing shot is needed it can be administered quickly and humanely. If done right, the high shoulder shot can disable the central nervous system and for the most part, the hunt is over at that point. For many years, I used to hunt deer with my 224 wildcat, and the shoulder shot was not one that I could even consider. Bullet placement had to be perfect, and I found the the brain/central nervous system shots always ended things quickly. With the big bore rifles and handguns, I have a bit more flexibility, but, the central nervous system is still my intended target and the high shoulder shot puts me in the ballpark. | |||
|
| Moderator |
Amen to that! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| one of us |
Anatomy is what I think. I have shot deer there and got GUTS! It seems as if the higher shot will hit lungs or a shot through the leg will get the heart. When an animal has a full stomach, it pushes low forward into the diaghram and can move it ahead. That shot might have gotten too little of the lungs. Only seeing what was hit and the damage would tell the story. I have had too much luck on deer with a boolit like that to blame the boolit. If the animal was quartered TOWARDS the shooter even a little, it would be worse but if away from the hunter, it would be better. A few degrees can make a big difference. At times we can't even see that few degrees. Broadside is sometimes not so. | |||
|
| One of Us |
i will say that i shoot EVERY animal through the shoulder unless it's quartering or straight on. if a bullet won't allow that shot to penetrate or hold together i won't use it. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would say that Eland Slayer is a very savvy young man & the fact that he gave the bullets another chance shows it! I've only taken around a dozen big game animals with jacketed slugs but I've taken a lot of them with cast. I've said it before, if I were only hunting deer I would seriously consider a good jacketed bullet because they aren't ask to penetrate heavy muscle & big bones & most times I think the deer is down & out a little faster. I know there are some really good jacketed bullets out there now as opposed to back in the 60's when I started handgun hunting. I know 2 experienced handgunners (Ken Oneill & Lynn Thompson) who have taken many head of big game using heavy, jacketed slugs all over the world, I believe both have also used cast on certain animals as well. I'll still stay with my cast slugs as they have never let me down. If I'm using one of the smaller calibers I'll make up some softnose cast & get both expansion & complete penetration & thats 100% of the time. Mostly I just use Keith SWC's or LBT's & get an exit hole with very little tracking involved. Good post & lots of good replies with very little bickering, great job! Dick | |||
|
| One of Us |
No sir....I do not reload. I find the Federal Cast-Core ammo is very accurate in my S&W 629 classic. With a good rest, I can get holes touching at 50 yards, which is the maximum range I'm comfortable with right now anyway. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've been casting my own and reloading, never had enough $$$ to buy much factory ammunition; for about forty-five years or so. I think you need to look at cast like they are solids and use them to break bones. Shoulder bones mostly. Rich | |||
|
| one of us |
Long ago in Ohio we went almost to the Ohio river to hunt a farmer's property we got permission on. I used a muzzle loader because it was shotgun or muzzle loader only. One guy we knew from work went down before we got there and even though it was buck only, he still shot a little doe with a 12 ga. She got up and ran. He tracked her in the snow and shot her again, she ran more. Eventually he got her down but it took 11 slugs. The deer was a rag, no meat left. The guy wanted the farmer to hang it in a shed but to the farmers good sense he said no. The guy took his hamburger home. I went back for doe and shot one on a leaping run at 125 yards with a .50 caliber Maxi Ball and she made 30 yards. I swung way ahead and raised the sights a foot above her and hit her behind the shoulder. Why the little doe took 11 shots with 12 ga slugs will always make me wonder. | |||
|
| one of us |
Funny things happen so never blame yourself or what you use until proven many times. A neighbor came to get me for help. He shot an 11 point with his 7mm mag and it quit bleeding in 100 yards. I knew where it was heading so we fanned across the hill. My neighbor found it almost a mile from where he shot it. I swear you could stick your head in the hole and the bullet went all the way through. My experience with a .44 and hard cast boolits has been a tremendous blood trail and a short run of about 30 yards. The 240 XTP is a good killer but never went through a deer for me and if I had not seen them go down, I would never find one because I found no blood back tracking them. Sometimes it is a matter of 1" at the animal. | |||
|
one of us |
African game animals are notorious for tenaciously hanging on to life. They are just plain tough and difficult to put down even with the best shot placement and bullet performance. I love shooting hard cast in big bores, they are like freight trains going through anything that gets in their way. In my opinion that hunt went well and as expected. Congratulations. ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM | |||
|
One of Us |
I haven't hunted with a 44 in a few years. I cast my own bullets, Lymans #429421. I cast them of wheel weights water dropped to cool and harden them. Loaded hot, about 1400 fps out of my Ruger SBH. If I did my part, one ragged hole for 6 shots at 50 yards. I have shot a few whitetails with this load. On one at 75 yards quartering away the bullet entered the left rear hindquarter, breaking the hip, punched through the stomach and lungs, and broke the offside front shoulder on exit. The deer went down right there. I have hit them with shots just like yours on the Oryx. They don't die quickly. I gave up on the perfect lung shots. I shoot a bit higher and father forward to break the front shoulders. The lungs still get damaged, so they die from that, and with the shoulders broke they can't run far. The only way to know if you can do a thing is to do it. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thought I'd share my very limited experience with a cast handgun bullet kill......long story short, i had a 150 lb 8 point whitetail buck to stop in front of me at about 20 yards this past Friday and i shot him in the shoulder with my Lipsey's flat top Ruger .44 special with 4 5/8 barrel and a handload of 7 grs Unique combined with a Lazer 240 gr simi wadcutter. The bullet passed all the way through and the buck ran about 60 yards and piled up. Needless to say I was well pleased. This was only my second handgun kill. I killed a doe in 2004 with a .44 mag 240 gr. soft point factory load. The doe ran much farther FWIW. DRSS | |||
|
| One of Us |
my typing is deplorable....that should have been Lazercast semi wadcutter. DRSS | |||
|
| One of Us |
In this thread an Oryx was shot multiole time whit XPB bullet that expanded to 1 inch acording to the shooter. So expanding or hard cast both Oryx took multiple shots and this was with the 454 http://www.handgunhunt.com/for...80005/page/1/fpart/1 _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
that was my oryx and the difference is that i shot until i saw no more movement, and unless stimulated the animal was put down in her tracks with a non-spine, non heart hit. the oryx never went further than 25 yards total or so and as you can tell, one shot was a failed attempt at a spine shot as it was lying on the ground b/c i had no clear shot at the vitals. i will tell you though that if i had shot one shot through the vitals and not hit the heart with a hardcast that thing would've been able to run for weeks. also due to the ladder stand i was on about 16-18 ft in the air the angle downward made me hit high on the lung on the near side to get full on the farside lung, the oryx piled up nicely after running 25 yards or so after the 3rd shot (the second shot was worthless as far as incapacitating the animal as it was a failed spine shot that went high, but saved backstraps). if you look at the pic you'll notice the amount of blood that came out of it's nose initially. she was an extremely large bodied female about the same size as my son's spike bull elk. i would guess every bit of 500lbs, and the processor thought she was a huge bodied oryx and they see them alot there. also, this was a .44 mag level load in reality. they are available with that bullet up to 400fps faster than this load. so really i shot her with a .45 colt or a .44 mag. i could've shot once and left her alone and she'd have died not two steps from where i shot her. my error and i really wanted to end it quicker to be humane. that said where eland slayer shot his was too far back and she may not have ever died, on his first shot, could've run for hundreds of yards, imhe both due to shot placement AND size of wound channel. jwp, you said that an xbp won't penetrate with a hardcast, a hardcast won't penetrate with a punch bullet or a penetrator and you are entirely correct, but none of them will have the wound channel of the barnes and it's by far more reliable than any expandable bullet i've yet to use. soooo.........in eland slayer's place with a .44 i'd use the barnes xbp on everything smaller than the largest buff, he'll get adequate penetration and a much larger hole/wound channel. if the animal is larger than bison, i'd use a corbon penetrator or punch bullet. that said, on deer, anything works for the most part but if i want them down NOW. barnes is the best imhe | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting hard cast bullets.....disappointed hunter
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia