trouthunter, get a Belt Mountain replacement base pin for your Ruger!
Peter.

Peter - I ordered a new Belt Mountain pin and base pin latch body. When I removed the base pin latch to install a new Wolff spring, the catch on the base spring latch body had been machined off. There was nothing to engage the base pin.

Sorry to hijack this thread so, I am very happy with my FA and in my limited experience, I think it is superior to anyother handgun I have shot. Granted this is just my opinion.


ddj

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
So now the FA is responsible for a manufacturer's crimp pulling? Oh. I fully understand now.



I have shot my FA 454 with 320-grain cast and 25 grains of AA #9 repeatedly without issue. I even loaded the rounds with a set of 45 Colt dies, which Freedom (and others) specifically caution against because supposedly the crimp for the Colt is designed differently.

Doubles I have to agree with you the flag must be flown on this one

JWP, my loads do not pull in ANY caliber, even if I cycle one round through a bunch of cylinders full.
All I use is a medium roll crimp. Even a 400 gr, .475 Lee boolit with that scratch they call a crimp groove will not pull.
I have profile crimp dies for some calibers but many of my boolits will not fit them so I use the seat die to roll crimp and I do it while seating.
I have said a million times the only crimp needed is enough to hold a boolit and don't depend on it for anything else, like powder burn. Case tension is what holds a boolit.
Those that use soft lead and over expanded brass or tight brass that sizes a soft boolit when it is seated will try and use all kinds of crimp.
Soft lead can fail to fully open a crimp and the boolit is again sized as it is forced through it. I have found cases at the range that still had some crimp after it was fired.
This is what a proper crimp and load should look like.

quote:

I have said a million times the only crimp needed is enough to hold a boolit and don't depend on it for anything else, like powder burn. Case tension is what holds a boolit.

So which is it? Crimp or case tension? Or is it a combination of the two?

Doubless, the problem is if you don't load or don't know how to load and understand what any revolver needs and have to buy ammo, you better buy stuff that does not reach the end of the cylinder on a Freedom.
There is NO wiggle room!
But what if the Freedom had a longer cylinder or you used a SRH? The gun could then save your butt.
However, moving boolits ruin accuracy so if you miss the deer on the first or second shot, chances are the rest will miss even if you are dead on.

quote:

So which is it? Crimp or case tension? Or is it a combination of the two?

Case tension does the work and the only crimp I use is enough to help hold the boolit. It is surprisingly little.
I test by shooting 4 and taking the last round out to make sure it did not move and many have held for 9 shots.
If you over crimp, you will ruin tension and start to bulge the brass below the crimp. Use only enough to fold into the groove, smashing the boolit does nothing for you.
Look at my round, you can see the boolit in the brass, even ripples from the grease grooves. The boolit must be hard and water dropped WW metal, aged a week is good enough for them to get hard. Try not to load fresh cast boolits.
Jacketed are no problem unless your dies are not right. Dies make or break loads so I only use Hornady dies. The expander is just right.
Some use the Lyman "M" expander to make seating easier---forget it, do better with a slingshot!

In what seems to be a playground discussion closed minds are prevailing.
The FA are nicely made,most agree, but they ain't for everybody.IMO they are a little over priced,this is my opinion,one in the 12-1500 dollar range is more reasonable.They are short cylindered it seems even the FA folks say so.So it boils down into a personal preference thing.
Now I saw the ammo that tied up the highly discussed FA.It is a very minor crimp pull,one you have to look to see.I saw the unused ammo and have some issues with it.I think two things contributed to the tie up.I think the short cylinder and type of crimp used are the sole contributers to the issue.That same ammo in a bfr,or ruger may have tied up the gun but it would have taken more than one shot.That ammo with a different crimp may have never been an issue.
FA are definately easy on the eyes.Like most everyone said bank vault tight.They have a good feel and balance.The trigger feel seems smooth and nice,and the click ratchet style is wonderful.I find the hammer feel not to my personal liking and noisy,again just my opinion.
I feel the heavy hitters need a heavy crimp.Neck tension is good but if the brass doesn't hold onto the bullet you will have issues.
This discussion has taken some wierd turns and rolls I never thought gun people would go from saying if you don't have a FA or won't pay for one you are poor and ignorant as some one round about referenced to,and because your experience ain't the same as mine you're a liar,and I got one bad one so they all suck.There were many more out of character issues in this discussion and as much as I have bragged about the knowledge,and true shared diversity,and agreeing to disagree like folks of great character this discussion almost makes me ashamed,even of myself.

This is all my opinion from my perception about the issue at hand,if I offended anyone my aplogies.

quote:

This is all my opinion from my perception about the issue at hand,if I offended anyone my aplogies.

Nope, I do it all the time!
But I asked Whitworth why the devil those rounds were crimped so hard. They have a full profile crimp like the jacketed .454 factory loads.
Has it loosened the case tension?
I need to have some here to work with them. Brass has to go somewhere when that much force is put on it and it usually expands. Then what does the crimp die look like and how does it work?
Guys like the Lee Factory Crimp Die until they find the ring inside is sizing the brass on a seated boolit, then the brass springs back leaving the boolit too loose and the boolit sized too small.
Guys in the know, punch the ring out.
I have had case bulge below the crimp a few times when adjusting the die (handle got away from me) so they would not chamber. I just pull them and start over.
I usually run a round into the crimp die and screw it down to touch the mouth, then slowly adjust it down a little at a time until I get what I want. I have never used a profile die to put on a profile crimp, just a roll crimp. They are made to support the brass but that much crimp just ruins brass anyway. That much crimp is hard to iron out and can ruin the cast boolit too.
Anyway, I don't know what is going on with those loads yet.
As far as Freedom, no they are not all bad, seen too many tack drivers but it does happen just like with any other gun.
Want to hear horror stories about Dan Wessons?

quote:

Doubless, the problem is if you don't load or don't know how to load and understand what any revolver needs and have to buy ammo, you better buy stuff that does not reach the end of the cylinder on a Freedom.

Here you go again, blaming Freedom for loads that they have nothing to do with. How is FA responsible for a commercial load "jumping crimp"?

And as far as checking your photo, all I can see is the base of the bullet. I cannot see the "ripples from the grease grooves". As a matter of fact, I don't think I ever have.

I have no question about your ability to load handgun ammunition. I can load as well and ensure a bullet doesn't jump. But you continue to point fingers at FA for something they have no control over. You want them to design a longer cylinder so when a load built by CastCore or someone else is shot, if the bullet slides forward the firearm isn't locked up. That is like asking me as a vehicle owner to put a heavier bumper on every truck I produce because you continue to put dents in yours pushing down trees!

Can you not see the fallacy of your argument?

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:

quote:

Doubless, the problem is if you don't load or don't know how to load and understand what any revolver needs and have to buy ammo, you better buy stuff that does not reach the end of the cylinder on a Freedom.

Here you go again, blaming Freedom for loads that they have nothing to do with. How is FA responsible for a commercial load "jumping crimp"?

I agrre faulty ammo is certainly not FA fault the fault lies with the Doule Tap hard cast and the Corbon jacketed The bullets jumped crimp and pulled from the case which is no fault of the FA revolver I have a news flash when a bullet jumps crimp and pulls from the case it will jam any gun including the Sainted BFRs how do I know this? i have seen it happen To blame the revolver for a bullet pulling crimp is assinine IMHO

This is gonna stop. This ground has been plowed enough.

The ammo is faulty and needs to be addressed if it won't hold crimp. The fact that it has the shortest distance to travel in the FA cylinder is for sure and for certain. It is a characteristic of the revolver. One can either accept a firearm, beauty and warts together, or go find another brand.

I have no intention of letting my FAs go and they will accompany me on many more hunts around dangerous game, God willing. I do not feel the least bit compromised by carrying a FA. If someone has a different opinion, carry what what you want.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:


This is gonna stop. This ground has been plowed enough.

The ammo is faulty and needs to be addressed if it won't hold crimp. The fact that it has the shortest distance to travel in the FA cylinder is for sure and for certain. It is a characteristic of the revolver. One can either accept a firearm, beauty and warts together, or go find another brand.

I have no intention of letting my FAs go and they will accompany me on many more hunts around dangerous game, God willing. I do not feel the least bit compromised by carrying a FA. If someone has a different opinion, carry what what you want.

+l

+ 2

And I am done. Thank you, MS Hitman.

YES GREG, THOSE OF US WHO ACTUALLY RELOAD OUR OWN AMMUNITION ARE WELL AWARE OF THIS; IT IS A COMPRESSION THING.

WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?!?!

Maybe Greg was suffering hearing loss from shooting those .454 rounds he didn't load.

The only gripe I have with a .454 is the noise. The cartridge is just loud regardless if it is loaded mild or wild.

I shot some 357 grain Hunter Supply bullets from my 7.5"; that load will raise blood blisters on your hands.

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
The only gripe I have with a .454 is the noise. The cartridge is just loud regardless if it is loaded mild or wild.

I shot some 357 grain Hunter Supply bullets from my 7.5"; that load will raise blood blisters on your hands.

Come on. When all we had was heavy 45 colt, and .454, it sort of made sense. A 60 PSI cartridge, in a handgun is frigging absurd!

The only reason I can see for a .454 is if you are on a budget, and want to shoot low power .45 Colt loads in one...;-)

Once you have obtained some actual experience hunting with handguns and can offer some meaningful discussions to these forums come back and let's talk. Currently you are the most absurd thing on here.

quote:

Here you go again, blaming Freedom for loads that they have nothing to do with. How is FA responsible for a commercial load "jumping crimp"?

It is a simple thing of Freedom making every caliber to fit a little frame and cylinder length to also force ammo makers to go along and make special bullets and loads just for their guns.
They have the belief that a bullet must not have any jump to the forcing cone and will never make different size frames and cylinders to match other calibers. A one size fits all mentality has set back revolver shooting just too much. Too many bullet makers are forced to put two crimp grooves on bullets.
Why the hell does Freedom deserve such special attention? A scud of ballistic missiles.
Over inflated heads about fit and finish making as much money as they can and owners that defend all the flaws because they are really sorry about the money they paid and needing to defend it is plain silly.
The truth can hurt so sit on the floor and really take a look at your gun. If it shot 1" at 50 when new and kept getting worse the more you shot it, is it your fault?

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

Here you go again, blaming Freedom for loads that they have nothing to do with. How is FA responsible for a commercial load "jumping crimp"?

It is a simple thing of Freedom making every caliber to fit a little frame and cylinder length to also force ammo makers to go along and make special bullets and loads just for their guns.
They have the belief that a bullet must not have any jump to the forcing cone and will never make different size frames and cylinders to match other calibers. A one size fits all mentality has set back revolver shooting just too much. Too many bullet makers are forced to put two crimp grooves on bullets.
Why the hell does Freedom deserve such special attention? A scud of ballistic missiles.
Over inflated heads about fit and finish making as much money as they can and owners that defend all the flaws because they are really sorry about the money they paid and needing to defend it is plain silly.
The truth can hurt so sit on the floor and really take a look at your gun. If it shot 1" at 50 when new and kept getting worse the more you shot it, is it your fault?

Let it go, Jim........

I can't deny the truth. Come look at this gun and you will see it.

Let it go Jim, enough is enough.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

Here you go again, blaming Freedom for loads that they have nothing to do with. How is FA responsible for a commercial load "jumping crimp"?

It is a simple thing of Freedom making every caliber to fit a little frame and cylinder length to also force ammo makers to go along and make special bullets and loads just for their guns.
They have the belief that a bullet must not have any jump to the forcing cone and will never make different size frames and cylinders to match other calibers. A one size fits all mentality has set back revolver shooting just too much. Too many bullet makers are forced to put two crimp grooves on bullets.
Why the hell does Freedom deserve such special attention? A scud of ballistic missiles.
Over inflated heads about fit and finish making as much money as they can and owners that defend all the flaws because they are really sorry about the money they paid and needing to defend it is plain silly.
The truth can hurt so sit on the floor and really take a look at your gun. If it shot 1" at 50 when new and kept getting worse the more you shot it, is it your fault?

You're as correct here as you were when you claimed the FA M0del 83 had a transfer bar.. Of course being wrong has never stopped you before

Enough is enough!

But.......oh never mind.......

Beautiful pieces, Greg!

For me as long as it is a .41 it seems to shoot well. I have both Rugers and FAs and both companies will always have a place on my hip and safe...












Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?!?!

DW

Keep us posted on what you get and how it shoots.

BOB

Those are some great looking Revolvers even if they are 41 Mags...

For the Rest of you AR members, me and RJM have been good shooting buddies since 1977.

He has been using the 41 since day one...
[I tried my best to convert him to the 44 Mag... never could.]

And he was using the 38 Super WAY before it became the "Darling" of IPSC. WAY before.


OH, and when People talk about not using reloads for defensive protection...

Back in the Day, a BUNCH of Police Officers carried HIS "Reloads" ON DUTY...

They were Approved by the Department.

And this was one of the largest Six Cities in the USA...


Still, he is 41 Mag Trash...

quote:

Still, he is 41 Mag Trash...

41 mag is an excellent caliber IMHO.

I've actually always felt that the .41 mag was a better performer in many circumstances than the .429......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I've actually always felt that the .41 mag was a better performer in many circumstances than the .429......

I once felt that same way about amateur boxers with respect to the pros.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I've actually always felt that the .41 mag was a better performer in many circumstances than the .429......

I once felt that same way about amateur boxers with respect to the pros.

LOL!

I said I was finished a long time ago, but if we start talking about the virtues of the .41 mag, I may have to stumble back into this!

Don't you guys give Bob any encouragement.

I need something to raz him about.

Actually, once upon a time, I had a 41 Mag.

It was a S&W Mod 58. I used it as a foul weather duty gun and for off duty use.

I had 2 hammers for it. I bobed the factory hammer, and fitted a target hammer to it.

Many times I carried it in an upside down Safariland holster No 19 for a 4" K frame. The N frame Mod 58 fit into it as well.

My regular carry gun was a Mod 29, 44 Mag.
The only problem was, when ever I switched to the Mod 58 I had to change out ALL THE AMMO I carried...

Well my partner and I both got 4" Nickle Mod 29's in 44 Mag, only 25 serial numbers apart, so we carried them full time...

I sold the Mod 58...