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I can only say one thing here. I looked at the loads in the basement and seen a great deal of case tension so I asked Whitworth why they had such over done crimps---FULL PROFILE that actually ruins brass. What matter about who made the loads? Do you need special for the gun? | |||
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Sounds to me like you are not being objective. If your gun is ammo sensitive, to me it is limited. I don't like limitations. Have I written FA off because of this? Nope, never said I did. So, who is not being objective?? Doubless -- how is what I have posted BS when it actually happened the way I stated it?? How?! Please explain this to me like I'm uneducated and unwashed. I'm waiting. If the slightest crimp pull ties the gun up at the wrong moment, your life may linger in the balance. If the cylinder were a little longer, then the tie up may be deayed by one, two, maybe even three shots. I prefer those odds. Isolated incidence? Perhaps, but it did happen the way I posted it and I was more than a little disappointed. So, if that means that I am drawing conclusions based on one incidence, you are reading my posts wrong and need to work on your reading comprehension. I HAVE NOT DRAWN ANY CONCLUSIONS. Happy??  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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NEVER SAID THAT IT DID!!!!! Just reporting on the incident -- period. I am not ready to hang FA...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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It does hold water. Look at this post from another site. The FA is a vault queen, meaning don't buy one for the field. A grain of sand can stop the cylinder rotation cold, those shiny epoxy embedded stocks offer zero traction to the hunter with bloody hands and the lack of a simple transfer bar (yes the model 97 has one, not the larger model 83 454) has injured and killed hunters in Alaska. I used to collect them but since the Bake-Over (elder Baker passing on to the son) quality crashed. I once lugged a dozen FAs to GNG for a meeting with the local FA rep to present issues....sorry Joe! Accuracy is rather vague but lemme help, out of the thirty or so examples I've spent time with and another members twenty or so three examples performed minute @ 100yds. Bare in mind that many credible writers of the 50's reported minute with the early S&W 29. | |||
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I have to agree with all of you. . . . . well, maybe not ALL. I as I mentioned had 2 FAs. I also had BOTH guns break a spring inside the guns, tying them up until they were taken apart and repaired by a gunsmith friend several years ago. Can't remember just what broke, but I was told it was the same part in each gun. Also had a pine needle lock one up tight, until I drove home a couple hundred miles and used my screwdriver to remove the cylinder. So for me, I would certainly not use a FA as a dangerous game back up, period! I may still get a 97 in .44 spl. however, but it will be only for pleasure shooting with mild loads, so all the above will not be an issue. One thing I have taken from this thread is that I would like to try out a BFR and see just what these are all about today, as it sounds like the quality has come a long ways since they first hit the market, and that they seem a lot more forgiving, and sounds as though they shoot pretty damn well. But since I am mainly now a rifle hunter and use my handguns for personal protection, varmint, and pleasure shooting, I still am interested in the FA just for the tightness of this gun. If it does lock up, or bust a part, I have other guns to shoot until I rectify the problem. At this point I think Whitworth and BFR are simply reporting their test results. That is the main problem with being truthful and reporting any results, positive or negative, because no matter what they are, you are going to piss some-one off either way. Thanks for the report Whitworth. appreciated. | |||
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Thank you for not reading more into it than was intended. I am just reporting the facts of my session yesterday -- period. I still like FAs. I always try to remain objective and this case is no exception. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Ford/Chevy/Dodge...Ruger/BFR/FA..they all have their proponents and it will never be settled.Drive what you prefer,shoot what you enjoy all have their own little following and that will never change. Good products and service/or bad products and service for you by one doesn't guarentee that all other purchasers have recieved the same experience and service. Now having worked at a dealership you aren't going to make everyone happy,just as FA/BFR/Ruger is not going to make everyone happy,get over it,it is a fact of life that we don't all agree and imo it's a great thing.How boring would it be if everyone drove Chevys or Fords or Dodges?And if you went to buy a handgun you only had one choice. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them poor,or ignorant,or uneducated it just means they have had different experiences. "If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence,try orderin' someone else's dog around" unknown cowboy | |||
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Yes, AND the main reason I drive a Jeep! | |||
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ANYONE that can tie up a SRH, RH, SBH, BH or any BFR with a pulled bullet does not know how to load ammunition. If you can tie one up with ANY factory load you will be a liar. Any revolver that needs only one kind of ammo is a piece of junk. Your life can be on the line. The loads tried in the Freedom were the most expensive, highest quality loads I ever seen. Sorry but no Freedom will ever grease my palms to reside in my safe let alone go hunting with. Whitworth learned a lot while I giggled and laughed. I had a GREAT time standing there with a little hammer and dowel to pound bullets in so the cylinder would turn. All Freedom owners should go Griz hunting so we can thin the nuts from the sites! Whitworth is being too easy, I seen his red face and heard the cuss words. Yeah, blame the ammo, what a bunch of horse pucky. | |||
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DW that's funny let us know how it all turns out with the 97 and the JEEP,hahaha "If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence,try orderin' someone else's dog around" unknown cowboy | |||
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When I first started reloading for my FA 475 Linebaugh I did succeed in locking up the gun. I did not blame the gun I blamed my reloading technique for not using enough crimp. Perhaps FAs should have cylinders 3 inches long to allow for this? It is true that there is not much room for error, but then I am shooting 400 grain bullets. Shooting 300 grain bullets in my 44mag and 45 Colt Rugers or my S&W 629 also do not leave much room for error either. No, I would not take my FA as a backup sidearm "in the woods", but then I would not take my S&W model 52 either. Both are precision instruments. I am not sure why we are making things into what they are not. Lack of crimp is an AMMUNITION problem. The seriousness of the problem is mitigated by a longer cylinder. The gun may go bang, but where does the bullet go? Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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_____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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ALL ammo should work in EVERY gun. A rifle should shoot with any factory load and so should a revolver. Why does a Freedom need specific ammo? I have shot hundreds of thousands of loads in every gun you can think of without a problem, except the Freedom. What do you do when you need ammo up in Alaska and go in a gun shop? If your Freedom is that specific or it will fail, do you go griz hunting? Why don't you fellas get real? We did not say the Freedom shot shotgun patterns at 50 yards--IT DID. But the BFR .500 JRH center punched the bull at 50 yards. I want a dependable gun with anything, not a pig in a poke. Freedom owners sleep with their guns but we shoot our guns. Don't ever talk load specific, because something is just wrong with the gun. | |||
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IN all fairness, had we had the time to work with the FA more, I am sure it would have shot good groups as well. jwp has gotten good groups with that gun and I am sure we could have done the same had we been able to dedicate more time to it. I am not giving up on it yet! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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You are drawing conclusions without suporting facts. No one had a 5 shot Ruger Super Blackhawk to fire the same ammo on the same day side by side to compair nither did you have a BFR in 454 to compair side by side with the ammo. I would not go hunting with any firearm intentionaly, that I had not tested the ammo in for reliability first. Gary and I have 300 win mags with SAAMI spect chambers and belt cuts, I have run into factory new ammo with belts 16 thousandths onger than SAMMI max lenght and they will not allow the bolt to close untill I shorten the belt lenght. The predjudice against FAs are glaring, if they were as big of a problem as you suggest then every one would experience the same and no one would have any positive experiences with them _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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_____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Just one question: Who's Gary? "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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There's nothing wrong with the accuracy of that gun. We didn't spend much time with it at all. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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My first cousin and the rifles were built by a top smith _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Oh, okay. Thanks! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I have shot many other .454's without a problem. You can't say that. I want a gun I can depend on with anything I care to stuff in it or buy to stuff in it. If any gun fails just once, that is too much. A .45 ACP for carry is worthless if it does not function every time. I am lucky in that I just hunt deer. If a gun fails, I go home and fix it. My guns NEVER fail and I will not buy one that can. My life is never on the line either. I never need a tool kit in my deer stand. My revolvers go bang and deer die with every shot. Why would I want a 4 shot, single shot in my stand when I can have a 5 shot, 5 shot revolver, or a 6 shot, 6 shot? | |||
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Do you ignore my 50 yard groups with my .45 vaquero? I have shot 1" groups at 75 with it many times.  | |||
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You kids play nice now. I'm going to get a life for a few hours, but will be back later.  Have a nice day. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I don't know what's in the water in your part of WV, but I have never had problems tying up a FA over in Pendelton, Randolph, or Hardy County. Nor did I have the problems when I took my 7.5" to Africa for a hunting weapon and my self-defense weapon. Any one with a modicum of common sense will tailor the ammo to the weapon, why else spend the time with the firearm learning what it likes to shoot? So, the cylinders are longer on a BFR, than a FA; I bet the tolerances are larger as well. I know they are on a Ruger compared to a FA. You are not the only one on this forum that has shot silhouettes, reloaded, cast bullets, or taken game with a revolver. Yes, you can shoot; but you aren't the only one here who can. You now appear to be at the point where you are letting your prejudices get in the way of objective thinking. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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You are 100% wrong. No custom maker fits guns as tight as a Freedom. Some are really loosey-goosey but shoot like a house afire. The BEST custom makers do not believe in tight guns. You can run down Ruger and Magnum Research and I will run down Freedom. We are even! | |||
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Be careful, X-Caliber. You are trying to reason with someone who doesn't know how to do that, and you are trying to do it with plain old statements of fact. I warn you: It will not work with this guy. His opinion is fact, and yours is fiction. (Note his response that you are 100% wrong...) With all due respect, you are wasting your time. Go back and read his posts; they are nothing but opinion; an opinion no one else on this thread seems to share... | |||
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Lets see. My 454 alaskan needs reduced loads or you have to pound case out with a hammer so it needs ammo taylored to it. My 41 mag and 41 special both have short cylinders and need specific bullets to work. Bottom line is were handloaders and taylor specific ammo to each gun we have. At least i do. I will agree with some of the facts posted here. A fa is tight and it will shut down because of fouling but your never going to shoot enough ammo in a hunt to foul one so if you go hunting with a crudded up gun you deserve it for your laziness. I to wish the clyinder was a bit longer. Ive had bullets jump in heavy kickers like the 454 and 475 and 500. Yes its partialy due to loading errors and tired brass but errors happen and id like a little room for error in cylinder lenght but again i fire hundreds of the load im going to hunt with before hand so i know if its going to be a problem and if so correct it. I dont know exactly how many rounds ive shot through FA guns but its a truckload and ive yet to have one break. I sure cant say that about some of the other brands. Sure they break. Anything mechanical will eventually break. Would i trust a fa on a dangerous game hunt. In a second and if you doubt it please take up a collection and send me on one so i can prove it 
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if i load ammo, and it jumps crimp that's my problem not the gun. i just had a squib load that did not ignite well this saturday from a ammo manufacturer and it rendered the gun inoperable. did it both on my FA and my ruger alaskan my bud was shooting within about 30 seconds of each other. not the guns fault. i inspect every single round of ammo i put through my gun whether it is factory or one of my own loads. to be honest, i've had problems with all my .454's and with a smith 629. all tied to the ammo. i've learned that with anything being mass produced (i.e. ammo) it's never 100% perfect. never. i've never had a FA83 that scoped i couldn't pull moa groups from with several different types of ammo. another problem in this is the fallacy that you need to shoot the heaviest bullet possible in a given caliber. i don't care about paper penetration but i've never seen a difference on any large animals b/w 300 and 400 grain loads out of a casull and never could tell ya and neither could anyone witnessing the shots on game tell the difference b/w a 370 grain and a 420 grain out of a .475. sorry and i've had people claim they could but were unable to tell the difference EVERY single time. one 'ole crusty hunter insisted that he was sure i had hit a large hog with a 420 grain load out of my 475 when i told him it was either a 420 or a 370. should've seen his face when he found out it was a 345 from my casull and it wasn't a .475 at all. point is..............20 or 50 grains don't make a difference at all when you're north or 300 on any game we're gonna hunt and if you choose to shoot a 420 grain load that barely fits in a FA instead of a 370 or 400 that fits fine that's your problem. | |||
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1- I'd love to see the back-up documentation on this one. I'm afraid that this is simple not true from my experience. 2- I'm afraid that his one and the one above have earned the flag to be flown  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Hey, BFR... When are you going to give up and admit you are flogging a dead horse? Come on, post the caricature... | |||
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My first linebaugh was a 5.5 inch 475 from john and its just as tight as either of my FA guns. My 500s arent quite. Ive got a few guns from dave clements and the same thing. Ones as tight as a fa and a couple others arent but there all MUCH tighter then any out of the box ruger ive ever owned. The loose is better thought doesnt fly with me. If everything is done perfectly a tight gun will usually outshoot a loose one. My 475 linebaugh built gun is the most accurate revolver ive ever owned. I have to admit it even outshoots my fa 475. Slop in a gun may help in a shody built gun like an out of the box ruger but perfect alignment cant help but to add to accuracy.
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Hmmm, maybe I'll just go ahead and get that sweet looking 9mm 'Lorcin' I was eyeballin' last week. I hear they shoot real gud. Wonder if I can mount a scope on it. . . . .  | |||
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What's the fit and finish like?  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Awww, Whitworth. If you have not had the pleasure to experience a top quality Lorcin, you are in for a treat! With Lorcin it's ALL about fit and finish. Hmmm, may be better to go with one in .380 however in case I want to hunt big stuff. Now if I can just find a good used DelFatti hoster to fit this master piece, I'm there! | |||
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Well, you know I just can't quit! I have so many giggles over this strange gun that so many defend for some reason. I love to pull chains and rattle the cages to see what falls out. I have tried, believe me, over and over, to find any other gun that creates so much passion and nasty responses. All I need to say is FREEDOM and the earth spins backwards! I will never get over it and might never quit jerking you guys! OK, I will quit because I cause too much anger and that is not what I want. Freedom owners have no sense of humor at all and I will never change that. When some of you talk nasty about a Ruger or BFR, I laugh but I laugh even more when you go nuts about a Freedom. What else can an old fart do for entertainment?  | |||
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Can I suggest needle point or lawn bowling? "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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My FA has jammed on me as well but was due to my bad reloading practices. I didn't seat the primer deep enough. However, I bought the FA because my Ruger kept locking up due to a loose base pin. I could pull the base pin out of my NM Flattop 44 spl without pushing the base pin latch. I guess there is no such thing as a perfect revolver but the search continues..... ddj The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back - Robert Ruark | |||
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How else could I ruin my wrists without the funny guns you bring here? Soon you will bring a 1.00 caliber! I am going to buy stock in the Band Aid company!  | |||
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