My thought process for this thread was triggered by this comment in another thread:

quote:

While the drama of having pigs coast to coast is going to be severe, I can't wait until we do.

I've often felt the same way, despite the constant onslaught of those who proclaim that feral pigs are a plague worse than locusts.

Really, are pigs that bad to have around? I've read countless comments like "they tear up crops!", but never have I ever read "they tore up MY crops!". It reminds me of people who think carp are nasty to eat, but have never eaten them and don't know anybody who has. Is it just a rumor that has spread itself so thoroughly that it's been accepted as fact?

Here in Michigan we have a budding feral pig population and I can't wait until it grows, despite all the internet drama about the destruction they will cause. I don't think they will make one whit of difference.

I can't wait for them because:

1. They supposedly taste really good
2. They are something to hunt other than whitetail deer
3. Bag limits will probably be high, seasons generously long, and licenses cheap because of their reputation as vermin and their high breeding rate
4. Are mildly dangerous

Thoughts?

In addition to crop damage, I've read numerous studies that indicate they are very hard on native wildlife. As omnivores, they happily eat anything they can get their snoots on - crops, grains, carrion, deer fawns, turkey and quail eggs, etc. You name it, they'll eat it. I shot a nice pig in CA one morning and dressed him on the spot. We came back out the same way in the afternoon and the only thing left of the gut pile was a ten-foot circle of hog tracks. They can be very destructive to property, wildlife, and livestock. I've seen them eat all manner of smaller game, tear up fences, till under entire fields, and undermine foundations. They're great to hunt and eat, and I wish we had some close, but they do come with considerable baggage.

They do wreak havoc pretty much everywhere they live, and that's not just rumour. And yes, they do taste great -- only the really big ones get gamey, but the meat is normally very lean as they don't get fat like domestic pigs. I find them more fun to hunt then deer, and there is no hog season -- all pluses in my book. I hunted once at the Cedar Ridge Farms in Fayette, MO about 5 years ago and the hogs killed and ate most of the goats on the property -- they will virtually eat anything and everything.

The timeline may be a little off, but about a year or two ago, I believe, there was that e coli outbreak that killed a couple of kids in the US.

USDA traced the bad spinach to a farm in California and it was concluded that wild hogs somehow spread the e coli bacteria in the spinach fields.

Probably an extreme case, but one attributed to wild hogs.

(But I would love to hunt them here in VA too!)

Good info. Keep it coming!

In light of your posts confirming their nuisance-factor, have to add one more plus:

5: Since they destroy fields and harass livestock, it won't be a problem to find farmers who will let us hunt their land for pigs!!

And another question:

We have had a budding population here in Michigan for a few years. Every once in a while there will be a sighting, one hit by a car, or a story about a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who got one. It's legal to hunt them now but the population is so small that you'd be lucky to stumble upon one.
How long until we have enough to really have a decent population? Five years? Ten years? More? Less? Any idea?

I think the climate in Michigan could end up being a mitigating factor of their population potential.

Our problem in Texas (especially coastal Texas) is a mild climate, unlimited food year-round and virtually no predator that can kill them after a few months (except man).

While it is a good thing to have a hunting population, I'm careful where I say it because a lot of folks pay a steep price around here for the privelege. Golf fairways and greens torn up, same for yards. Pig shit everywhere (kinda like your canadian geese problem).

Goats and sheep are regular table fare for the more agressive animals.

We lost over 150 Corsicans to two big bores over a three year period inthe Hill COuntry around Medina. I finally killed one of them and put him on the wall just so I could say I got the last word. Be careful what you wish upon your neighbors!

I didn't know they were actually predatory

I wonder if the pigs will eat the eggs of the resident geese? I'd trade some geese for pigs.

Has seen pig populations take root in an area with high hunting pressure? I know pigs could survive here in western PA, but we are hunting deer from September until January. If pigs move in we'll know it and shoot on sight.
However, we'll all be beginner pig hunters, so the pigs would get educated by mistakes.

I don't know, but I want to hunt more, so pigs=good.

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
I wonder if the pigs will eat

yes

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
I wonder if the pigs will eat the eggs of the resident geese? I'd trade some geese for pigs.

Has seen pig populations take root in an area with high hunting pressure? I know pigs could survive here in western PA, but we are hunting deer from September until January. If pigs move in we'll know it and shoot on sight.
However, we'll all be beginner pig hunters, so the pigs would get educated by mistakes.

I don't know, but I want to hunt more, so pigs=good.

If they "move" in, then there will be sows amongst them, and they will already be "educated", and will be unlikely to do anything but increase in number. If they are "released" then they may not be very smart about hunting, depending on where they were obtained.
The ranch I like to hunt in the Hill-Country of Texas has a policy of shoot every pig you can for free-- and they never seem to have much effect on the numbers.

I can attest to the property damage factor. I spend several hundred dollars a year and countless hours repairing my pastures and hay fields due to hog damage. I am currently waiting on the ground to dry enough that I can get started for this year.

My neighbor thought it would be neat to have hogs on HIS place and turned some out about 11 years ago, and now he fights them the hardest to eradicate them. Of course, he couldn't keep the just on HIS place, so now they are OUR problem too.

They also compete with deer for food and WILL run deer out of an area. I use game cameras on bait, and if a deer is eating and suddenly gets spooky, there is a very good chance that a hog will be in the next picture. In most cases, after the hog moves in the deer are gone until the next day.

Nothing like being quoted on AR!

Europe and Asia have had wild pigs for millions of years.

Europeans love wild pigs and are treat them as royal game.

Hopefully Americans will some day feel the same.

quote:

Originally posted by D99: Hopefully Americans will some day feel the same.

Hogs are considered second class game in the US, and IMHO it's a tougher hunt than whitetail deer. Mainstream hunting magazines just occasionally feature boar hunting -- it's happening more and more, but there's still a bit of a stigma attached.

I guess I don't get out enough...my hunting circle has always had a high regard for hogs as a game animal. They are much smarter than deer, very adaptable to any kind of hunting pressure and major trophy boars are as scarce if not more so than big bucks.

Maybe A&M needs to try a little genetic splicing and put antlers on 'em?

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Maybe A&M needs to try a little genetic splicing and put antlers on 'em?

Can they make the males Gobble, too?

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Maybe A&M needs to try a little genetic splicing and put antlers on 'em?

Can they make the males Gobble, too?

Don't know but a beard shouldn't be a challenge.

Pick up any mainstream hunting rag and you won't see hog hunting features, but you sure will get your fill of elk, deer, and turkey. For me, the wild hog is king!

If you have a few pigs you are likely to have more than a few in short order. Here in far south Texas, the sows often have two large litters of piglets per season. Those piglets sows will be bred after a year or so and the chain continues.

I am told that in a productive area that 80% of the current pig population would have to be eliminated each year to keep the population stable. Thats not just hunting in the 80%, but all forms of death.

While they do cause some problems for me, I am willing to tolerate these issues since you can hunt year round, no limits, and use any method of take you see fit.

My question is if pigs are such a plague here in Texas why do the land owner's want to charge so much to hunt them?

quote:

Originally posted by Remington720:
My question is if pigs are such a plague here in Texas why do the land owner's want to charge so much to hunt them?

GREED!

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Europeans love wild pigs and are treat them as royal game.

So true - at least the hunters love them. To be entirely truthful, though, the enthusiasm does not extend to farmers or anybody who has to pay compensation for lost crops...

Me? I'm just a hunter, so I think pigs are good, and more pigs decidedly better!

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by mho: Me? I'm just a hunter, so I think pigs are good, and more pigs decidedly better!

- mike

My exact sentiments, Mike!

I am going to be somewhere East North West or South of Saeed's house in the Fall and won't get to do much hunting in 2008.

I am going to do the pig deal when i get back though. Hopefully I can find one in New Hampshire, Maine or Vermont within a few hours to whack.

The Northeast charges almost European hog prices though.

As for wreaking havoc, I have seen several acres of land covered in oak trees literally shredded by pigs looking for something to eat. And having grown up in Texas, when I was a teenager I took great pleasure in hunting marsh rabbits at night with a headlight and a .410 or .22 rifle. Armadillos were everywhere... There are no marsh rabbits any more, and darned few armadillos.

A feral hog with any hunting pressure applied will generally become almost totally nocturnal, and they will travel several miles a night to find food. Add to that the idea that a female of six months can successfully breed, have a litter of four to ten pigs, and will breed 2-1/2 times a year, and you suddenly have real trouble. They are hard on livestock, will eat newborn calves, deer, goats, sheep, etc., have no natural predators, and are incredibly tough on an automobile when you hit one. It is like hitting a 55-gallon drum full of water... The pig will roll up under a front wheel drive compact and lift the front end up, getting the steering end up off the ground. Now what do you have?

I love hunting them, but they are a menace... Period.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
...have no natural predators,...

This is always one of the problems when you introduce a non-native species.

Now you could introduce an appropriate preadator, but then you have a whole new mess on your hands that people just don't want to deal with.

I don't understand how if they're so bad why the state fish and wildlife people just don't declare them as vermin?

quote:

Originally posted by Wes Pryor:

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
...have no natural predators,...

This is always one of the problems when you introduce a non-native species.

Now you could introduce an appropriate preadator, but then you have a whole new mess on your hands that people just don't want to deal with.

I don't understand how if they're so bad why the state fish and wildlife people just don't declare them as vermin?

I think a lot of states do consider and classify them as vermin. That is why there are no seasons and no limits.......

No natural preditors? Are you kidding, the pigs have been feeding the California Bear and Lion populations to exceptional levels for years.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
No natural preditors? Are you kidding, the pigs have been feeding the California Bear and Lion populations to exceptional levels for years.

Um, did I say I was specifically talking about my home state?
I fear that by looking at my location you have assumed my ignorance is greater than it actually is.

In California, Yes there are predators. Many other states are not so lucky however. And I'm not sure they are too keen on introducing Bear and Mt.Lion to help sort things out.

In the great people's republic that I reside, piggies are game animals. I was unaware of other states policies - and have since been corrected.

Thereby reducing my ignorance to a more acceptable level.

In Texas we have very few bears and a reasonable number of big cats but none seem to take the effort to kill a wild pig when the huge populations of Blackbuck does, dometic and game sheep or goats and other "soft" animals are available for the taking.

So its true here that they have no natural predators, at least not many willing to take a tusk in the face or side for a meal.

Unfortunately for us, the Fish and Wildlife folks have taken to introducing black bears in the big parks. But they have yet to put in bear-proof storage bins for the hikers and back packers. Gonna be interesting when the populations get bigger and bolder.

Lastly, their hunting is unregulated in most of Texas. There may be a county or two that differ but in Brazoria County where I live, they are considered the number one threat to agriculture.

[/QUOTE]This is always one of the problems when you introduce a non-native species.

Now you could introduce an appropriate preadator, but then you have a whole new mess on your hands that people just don't want to deal with.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmm....Tigers eat pigs.....Hmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by Sergeant_Sabre:
My thought process for this thread was triggered by this comment in another thread:

quote:

While the drama of having pigs coast to coast is going to be severe, I can't wait until we do.

I've often felt the same way, despite the constant onslaught of those who proclaim that feral pigs are a plague worse than locusts.

Really, are pigs that bad to have around? I've read countless comments like "they tear up crops!", but never have I ever read "they tore up MY crops!". It reminds me of people who think carp are nasty to eat, but have never eaten them and don't know anybody who has. Is it just a rumor that has spread itself so thoroughly that it's been accepted as fact?

Here in Michigan we have a budding feral pig population and I can't wait until it grows, despite all the internet drama about the destruction they will cause. I don't think they will make one whit of difference.

I can't wait for them because:

1. They supposedly taste really good
2. They are something to hunt other than whitetail deer
3. Bag limits will probably be high, seasons generously long, and licenses cheap because of their reputation as vermin and their high breeding rate
4. Are mildly dangerous

Thoughts?

Man! If you are a farmer, you are in for a real ride, SON! When they get thick in areas where they can't be hunted,like in the edges of towns, you will not believe the $$$$K damage they can do in just one night in a golf course, or in a vegitable field! Texas has always had them, and a lot of them in the Western 2/3rds of the state are feral, but in the Easter 1/3rd some of ours are not really ferals, but decendants of the wild Euorpian swine brought here by the Spanish explorers.These are the true RAZORBACKS, not farm hogs gone wild. We have a lot of Javalina, as well, but they are not pigs, but a different species altogether.

I love hunting, and eating them, but make no mistake the damage they do is not an urban legend, but fact!

Pigs can destroy a pasture, and yes, they are a real problem, particularly on Texas ranches....

Pigs litter about 3 times a year, actually I think its 2.5 times per year according to the experts, pretty quick you gotta lot of hogs...

They root a lot of holes in the pastures and horses can break a leg in them, and erosion connects them and the land suffers. Nature never ment pigs to be there, man put them there to hunt and he sure got lots of that..The income from trapping and hunting that pigs bring to the rancher never quite off set the damage..

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Sullivan:

quote:

Originally posted by Remington720:
My question is if pigs are such a plague here in Texas why do the land owner's want to charge so much to hunt them?

GREED!

Not really. With today's litigious society, you're just asking for a lawsuit if you let anyone, especially someone you don't know, hunt on your property. That's not to mention one of my least favorite activities, littering. I let a few friends hunt for free, most of the time the answer is a firm "NO!" and I am well known in the area as being quite serious about trespassing.

All that said, I like pigs, great to hunt and great to eat but they can be a real problem since they can and will outbreed the best of hunting efforts. They are directly competitive with deer for mast, for one major example that is important in Texas.

Gatogordo (fat cat?), my point is not about free or unrestricted hunting. Reasonable fees and a record of names and addresses of hunters would take care of most of the problems you mentioned. Many people allow the public to hunt their land both for money and for free so they must not find the legal risk too high.

Remington 720, much of the problem comes in the form of hogs do not just stay on one persons property, and if they are pressured almost any at all, have the annoying habit of going completely nocturnal in their movements.

At this time, trapping is the ONLY thing that is having any signifigant effect on pig numbers, and it isn't having much of one.

One of the latest pieces of information I heard, is that the feral hog population in Texas will surpass the white tailed deer population 4 million plus animals, in the next two years or less.

Many of the places that have or suffer most of the damage from hogs are less than 500 acres in size and are surrounded by similar sized properties, and often the properties are smaller in size.

Unless the hunter was allowed access to all the surrounding properties, he migh set there for a month and never see anything.

Add to that the issues of Brucellosis and Pseudo-Rabies, and as was mentioned liability and trespass on adjoining property issues, and the fact that all people that buy a license and carry a firearm, are not necessarily people you would want having roam around your property unsupervised, add to the situation concerning gaining access and being able to hunt anything, let alone pigs.

Throw in the concept, that landowners would not be charging what they do if people were not willing to pay it, and the whole situation becomes clearer. JMO.

If feral pigs have been in Texas for 400 years, why is the population exploding only now? Has something changed with land use? More restrictive access than in the past? Higher fees = less hunting? Fewer predators? Are newer domestic pigs more fertile?

Or has the population been growing like this all along? That doesn't sound like the exponential population growth we've been told about.

I only started paying attention to this since I've been on AR, so I don't have a historical perspective.

It is a combination of land use changes/available predators/milder winters/feeding of deer.

In actuallity, I feel that the intense hunting pressure the things are under is adding to the population explosion.

Because of the hunting pressure, the animals are moving into areas with less pressure, and as the pressure decreases, the number of pigs able to survive to breeding age increases.

Also, due to the lack of Public Land, most of the pigs are on Private Land and as such in some cases do not receive the hunting/trapping pressure they need.

Places that I hunted 20 years ago that did not have pigs are now over run with the things, but due to trespass laws and the fact that feral hogs in nearly all instances will go completely nocturnal in their activities with little pressure during daylight hours, hunters are forced to try and figure out ways to hunt them at night either with spotlights or hog lights.

But to answer part of your query, yes, from what I have seen the growth of the feral hog population has really accelerated during the past 15 or 20 years. JMO.

Left a S. Tx lease last year where the pigs outnumbered the deer by our informal census. Three of us in blinds all making counts at selected times and comparing numbers. On the 600 ac ranch, average pig count was 61, and deer count was 52. Nothing scientific about our count, just what we could see with our eyes at a point in time.

In the 5 years I was on the ranch, I probably killed 100 hogs, and only one did not go into someone's freezer. That was a wounded pig that had had its lower jaw shot off by another of our hunters 4 weeks before and had managed to "survive" that long. Nothing but skin, bone, and stink, and I doubt if a whitetail would have lived that long with that horrific wound. In the last two years I shot nothing but sows and that had no effect on the population.

Just went on an exotic hunt in the Tx Hill Country west of Kerrville this weekend. The rancher runs about 300 head of Spanish goats and he said there were two animals we were to shoot on sight--coyotes and hogs, due to their predation on his goats.

Love to hunt them, and eat them, but if I was a rancher/farmer, I'd want them gone.

"Shoot the sows" is the right idea if you want to control the population. What is less obvious is "Don't shoot the boars." The large boar is one animal that does prey on small pigs, so shooting a trophy actually tends to increase the population over time.

We have some pretty rough country here in the Ozarks, and there is plenty of room for pigs to hide. Some of the boys have taken to riding mules after packs of hounds to chase the pigs. I just might go with them if I were younger (a lot younger).

Bowie, anyone?

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
The timeline may be a little off, but about a year or two ago, I believe, there was that e coli outbreak that killed a couple of kids in the US.

USDA traced the bad spinach to a farm in California and it was concluded that wild hogs somehow spread the e coli bacteria in the spinach fields.

Probably an extreme case, but one attributed to wild hogs.

(But I would love to hunt them here in VA too!)

The #1 big game animal in Kaliforney is pigs open season all year ,initially with a resident hunting license one could kill pigs then the state published 5 tag booklets for $15 now changed to $15 per tag.The main areas for pig hunting will require non lead bullets effective 7/1/08 for condor protection.