The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Hogs, Warthogs, Wild Boars, Javelinas Hunting How tough are hogs really?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I've certainly not killed as many hogs as many of you have, but I have yet to see the need for all the penetration and power that some profess as necessary. I've primarily shot whitetail and hogs as far as big game animals go. And as far as bullets go, it is the minority hunter who feels the premium bullets are required for whitetail sized game, in my experience. I'm not one of the ones who feels that a complete pass through with a two inch exit is required for a clean kill, and in fact have seen some devastating through and through shots result in animals running a long ways. Personally, I shoot a 7mm mag and a 7mm08. The 7mm08 doesn't always exit the animal, but I have NEVER had any animal go more than 10 ft when shot with it using at least three different non-premium bullets. The 7mm mag blows the hell out of them, and often ruins a bunch of meat, but has yet to drop one in it's tracks unless I shoot them in the head. As a result of my experiences, I think that it is entirely possible to go overboard with the power and penetration stuff. Personally, I'm fine with a gun dumping all of it's energy into the animal and the bullet "failing" to exit. I've also seen hogs and deer shot through and through, seal up and not leave much of a trail. I'll take an adequate cartridge and runofthemill bullet with a well placed shot (I prefer head or neck to save meat) any day over a cannon with a non-expanding bullet. I know this is a big can of worms, and has been hashed a bunch before, but how tough do ya'll think hogs really are? I'll grant you that they are a bit tougher than a whitetail, but I don't think they fall into the realm of charging buffalo. Maybe I'm wrong. | ||
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Daniel- They are TOUGH enough that I primarily used the overly-powerful 6.5 Bullberry IMP (aka 6.5x30-30 AI) and a 7mm Bullberry as my main armament.  Seriously, though, put the right bullet in the right place, and the hog is yours. I've killed them with just about everything, but the 6.5-06 was about the tops I recall ever using. For a number of years, my "big" gun was chambered in .308 WCF. And I've yet to hear a hog complain... Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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One thing to add regarding the hog's reputation as being hard to put down: A hog can be hard to kill simply because of thick, mud-caked hide, the gristle plate, thick fat and skeletal structure that is heavier than that of a deer and can wreak havoc on an improper projectile. Proper bullet selection and placement is paramount -- as is understanding the anatomy. The lungs do not range as far back as in a deer, and I've seen far too many hunting shows claim "lung shot!" when in fact they hit liver and/or stomach. But again, it does not take a cannon to kill them -- just as you have so astutely observed. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Bobby, You and your cannons are exactly what I was thinking about when I wrote this opener. You have more PICTURES of documented hog kills than anyone I know, and with those 'little' rounds to boot. I'd never heard of the Bullberry's till reading your posts, but my interest has peaked and I may well have a rig like one of yours in the future. To read some of the posts on here, you'd think that you need a .338 WM with partitions just to break the skin. I completely agree with your estimation that most of the hogs reputation for being tough is actually from poor shot placement due to a lack of knowledge of their anatomy. I've seen pictures of a bow hunter that kept aiming for the shoulder of a bayed hog and eventually ran out of arrows with the hog looking like a pin cushion. That's why I like a head or neck shot for meat animals anyway. That shoulder has some great meat on it. | |||
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Like many others on here, I've shot a fair number of pigs, with a variety of calibres. Yes big pigs can be tough, but they still die and I don't get too worried if they run 1 or 2 hundred yards before falling over.  This guy my mate shot last week, the 150 gr winchester 7mm projectile entered behind the shoulder, took out the liver, lungs and left the heart lying loose in the chest cavity, before finally comming to rest in the sheild at the front of the opposite shoulder, yet he still ran 120 yards before falling.I don't think a special projectile is required, as long as its doing its job on other relevantly sized game, it will be fine . | |||
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We shoot a fair amount of hogs out here and I haven't seen a bullet proof one yet. I agree with Bobby that the plate on the shoulder can be very thick on big boars but also agree that proper placement with a reasonable caliber will get the job done. I bet truthfully as many hogs have been killed over the years with a 223 as anything on our properties, simply because that is what we keep in the ranch trucks. When I have friends up to shoot a hog I seem to notice that guys with 243-3006 do the best because they are there "all the time" rifle and they know how to shoot them. Last hog I wounded and took some real effort to get located was with my 338 practicaly out of the box and I really didn't know how to shoot it yet. Sure hogs are tough, but I think that they normally don't live up to the hype.(if the guy behind the rifle can shoot) | |||
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Is a deer tough? no but even a well hit deer can go 80-100 yards sometimes because of adrenaline... If you are not doing head shots then quite frankly anything from a 260 remington on up with quality bullet for the velocity of the cartridge is just fine. Note FOR THE VELOCITY OF THE CARTRIDGE. Cup and core say less than 2750...launch a standard cup core and at 3000 fps at close range you may have a problem... my very favorite hog caliber is 376 steyr...why? cause I like it... What do I think is an appropriate minimum 270 win/7mm-08 Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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We just had a similar discussion on the handgun hunting forum. Let me say this up front. Handguns aren't operating with the same dynamic as even a small (6.5 for example) caliber rifle. We don't get anywher near the velocity, so we put a premium on heavy for caliber bullets that don't expand and penetrate really well. Like any animal, when they are adrenalized because they are wounded or being pursued by a pack of dogs, they can take a remarkable amount of lead. I don't put hogs and deer in the same category. Deer are relatively narrowly constructed and soft skinned. Hogs are more tank-like and way denser than deer - particularly large boars (as was discussed above). That being said, any animal that has been CNS shot will drop on the spot -- even elephant, but CNS shots don't always present themselves and if you have a large boar in your sights and a quartering away shot, it would serve you well to hve a premium bullet that can handle a high impact velocity and a rather thick-skinned animal. When wounded, they can be very hard to put down without a CNS shot. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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And one more thing, the .338 win mag makes for a GREAT hog hammer! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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+1 My wounded 338 hog was purely operator error. The big fella has whacked quite a few since with no problem. One more thought. I mentioned us shooting alot of hogs with relatively small guns. We don't use dogs or run hogs, so other then second shots we don't deal with the adenaline issue. | |||
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I've used my .338 on a number of hogs and it really puts 'em down! Great hog medicine! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Smallest caliber I've used--.22 LR and haven't lost a pig to it. Biggest--.45-70 w/300 gr Barnes HPs--called it the "Ham Slammer". I've killed more with a .22-250 than any other caliber--head shots only at 150 yds and closer. An old pilot, not a bold pilot, aka "the pig murdering fool" | |||
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Hog Hammer of Thor!!!  Just curious, but when do they start getting to be 'big and tough'? 200#, 300#, 400#.... I'd say that we seldom kill them over 200, though it isn't unheard of. And I can't recall ever hearing of one, in areas I've hunted at least, going over 350 or so. I'm not saying that hunting hogs with something like a .338 WM is wrong. In fact, I think that if one was going on a hunt with a .338/.375/etc., and wanted some field time to get the feel of her, then hog hunting with one would be a great idea. I just think that something in the .308 through .30-06 families (.243 on up, just like for deer) with any ol' garden variety standard bullet is completely sufficient. Granted if you are launching your projectiles at 3400 fps (7mm STW or whatever) a premium bullet may be called for to keep that puny projectile from disintegrating. | |||
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Daniel77 wrote:
Around here, a fully mature boar in great condition seldom runs more than 225 pounds, and most fall into the 180-220 range. I've killed them bigger, but those are the exception. All those internet tales of 950 or 1100 pound wild hogs are just that: tall tales. There may have been a hog killed that big, but it was pen-raised. Mother Nature simply won't let them get that large. Here are my 2 biggest. The top one was taken last summer with a 120 grain TTSX in 7mm Bullberry and weighed 353 pounds. His girth was simply incredible. The boar beneath it was taken several years ago with a 6.5x55. Because of an approaching thunderstorm (and the fact I had to get the neighbors to help me move him), this piggie did not get weighed. He had excellent length, and this was the largest I have ever taken or seen in the wild. Once in a while, sows can get impressive in size as well. I've taken a number of them in the size range of the third photo, but they rarely get larger than this. Many of them are closer in size to the sows in the two bottom photos, particularly in lean years.      Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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I don't think pigs are very tough at all. There are always exceptions but in my experience deer are considerably tougher than pigs comparing one common animal to another. I think deer probably have more adrenaline and can run further "dead" than hogs, for sure. I've heart shot many deer that ran anywhere from 30 to, say, 75 yards, maybe even a bit more. I've never heart shot a hog that went more than a few yards at most. In addition, poorly hit hogs die faster than poorly hit deer in my experience. For instance, I've shot and seen shot, quite a few hogs in the butt running away, they all died and usually pretty close to point of impact. Do the same thing to a deer (which I don't BTW unless already wounded) and most of the time you'll lose it or have a hell of a trailing job. Obviously not counting a spine shot that breaks them down. Like I said, there are always exceptions, and I've seen a few but these are my general observations. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I have shot no feral hogs, but what interests me in the process is that a hunter can shoot either a piglet or a 300 lb monster on the same night, and must therefore be suitably equipped. Compare this to deer hunting where the weight class expected will vary by a relatively small amount. True? | |||
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My opinion is that the hog's reputation for soaking up lead comes from the fact that their vitals are further forward than the vitals of a deer. Simply put, most of the stories exist because of incorrect bullet placement; a shot that would be fine on a deer, is a gut-shot on a pig. FWIW, my preferred pig caliber is a .308. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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Still, cheap bullets can be loaded at too fast velocities, which is a recipe for problems. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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This is very true. I've taken quite a few hogs and have had several that have taken a tremendous beating before conceding defeat. They are tough, let's not sell 'em short. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Apt observation. I've shot hogs with calibers varying from .223 through .338. They've all died equally dead (however, the one peppered with #9 shot from both barrels of my little side-by-side 28 gauge while dove hunting no doubt escaped -- at extra high speed -- to plunder again). That said, I wouldn't want to depend on a .223 for a frontal shot through the shield of a 300 lb boar, nor is a .338 perfect for picking off 15 lb. piglets. Perfectly "matching" the gun to the hog is a fool's errand, so the motto I've adopted is that the best hog gun is the one you've got in your hands when you see a hog -- even if it is a 28 gauge shotgun. | |||
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I never thought of hogs as particularly tough to kill, just mean and potentially dangerous under certain circumstances. Interestingly (and very unscientifically observed), it seems most hog encounters that injure a human are during hunting while most whitetail encounters that injure or kill humans are often casual encounters. I would also bet that overall, far more humans have been killed by deer than by hogs even though hogs are carnivors and have an additional motive to stalk lone humans that dear lack. But the ratio may become more even as hog populations grow nationwide. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I have killed hogs with a 22-250, 257 Roberts, 270, 30-06, 7 MM STW. Seen hogs killed with a 22 mag, 22 Hornet, 243, 7mm-08, 308, 300 Win Mag, 300 RUM. I have seen hogs travel a long way and found holes shot through there heart and have seen hogs liver shot that died within a few yards. I think that it depends on the state of the animal. If they are nervous and keyed up then if you do not hit the CNS, they will travel a bit after the shot. If they are nice and calm, they tend to die within 30 to 40 yards. I have noticed little ones tend to run farther, I think mainly trying to follow the sounder when they scatter. Founding member of the 7MM STW club Member of the Texas Cull Hunters Association | |||
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I get real worried when they go more than 10-20 yards! 1. because if it is not bleeding badly you will not find it in the areas I hunt unless you have dogs and a bulldozer! 2. I dont have dogs nor a bulldozer! 3. usually its me by myself and I dont like draggings hogs through this thick,grown up mess!! I have had 3 tough hog encounters: First one was a Warthog shot with a 416 remington, Almost traversed his entire body and stopped the bullet just inside left shoulder. Pig hit the ground hard but got up during the PH and my celebration! Ran about 50 yards then crashed. He was grazing peacefully before the shot. Second, shot a 150ish# sow with a 600 OK. It was broadside and running at about 40 yards because I had just destroyed his buddy. Bullet center the body just behind the right shoulder, pig never reacted to the impact,ran about 30-40 yards and died. Enormous wound channel, lots of blood! Last, shot a 255# boar slightly quartering away from me with a Merkel 470NE. He hit the ground hard and never got up! Stopped the 500 gr woodleigh soft on offside shoulder just inside the shield, perfect mushroom. I have shot many hogs with a 458 winmag using a 500 gr hornady interbond. I have never had a pig go much past 5 yards (most hit the ground) after being hit in the vital zone with this combo even when the CNS was missed. Double Rifle Shooters Society | |||
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The first hog I ever shot was the toughest SOB to date. I shot him 3 times from -20 yards to point-blank with a 270, and it still crawled 30 ft away. Others have been different. Some dropped; some ran away, some ran in circles for a few min, but this guy was definitely as tough as the come. When we were cleaning him, we found that everything else was soup but his heart. He was +150 lbs (gutted), had only one tusk, had ears like a hand with 4 fingers, was all scared up, and was the ugliest hog in CA. When it all comes down to it, I think it has more to due with the actual animal itself. Some pigs have no fight in them and some are monsters. I now hog hunt with a 300 Win. Not because its bigger, its just because I shoot everything with my 300... | |||
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How tough are hogs? Pretty dang tough. I usually carry a 20" chainsaw, a battery operated sawzall, with both metal and wood blades,and a double bit axe, not to mention machetes and knives. I've sawed deer, sheep, and goats in half with a chainsaw when I was in a hurry. Hogs are by far tougher! Raked a Cold Steel Master Hunter, fresh out of the box across this dude. I was thinking about skinning him out. I could swear I heard the knife say "ouch". I decided the better part of valor was to go back to the campfire, smoke a cheap cigar and have a toddy.  This little hoglet had about an inch of mud caked on him. Shot him with a 35 whelen. Only stunned him. Had to show him the picture of my mother in law to put him out of his misery. After the obligatory photo I tryed sawing him in half with my chain saw. That didn't work. Tried an axe next. You'd have thought I was beating a tractor tire with a sledge hammer. Finally used a neat ol' schrade carbon steel skinner. He had about 1.5" thick layer of fat under his skin.  Never skinned a hippo but for my money, a big ol' boar will give you a wrassle. GWB | |||
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I know its not a gunshot, but heres a piece on a boar I came up against twice last year, unfortunatly for him. http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/for...gi?num=1219622766/45 starts at post #48 | |||
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BOTTOM LINE You put an expanding bullet through the vitals...they are dead and usually not far from the scene of the crime. A 22 mag that doesn't hit a rib will kill one in feet of where it is shot. A 7 gazillion mag with a solid will poke a hole in it and it will run a long way and die far from home. That said use your favorite rifle, be it a 222 or a 375, with a barnes TSX, NAB, NP, etc...and go hunt with confidence. Perry | |||
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If you hit no bone....... A .22 LR to the brain of an elephant will kill it, but you need to get to the vitals. I like a bullet/cartridge combination that will reach the vitals from any and every angle, and some of the high-speed, small caliber rounds simply aren't a good choice, not necessarily a reflection on the toughness of hogs as a shortcoming of the cartridge. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Last time I checked a rib is a bone  I agree with your thinking on hitting the vitals from any angle but hogs simply are not that tough. I have hit the vitals of 200# hogs with bung hole shots using my 5.56 with the Barnes 70gr TSX. Again...choose the rifle you like best, get a premium bullet and shoot with confidence. Perry | |||
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I was making a reference to shoulders, etc. Ah, but you are using a TSX, which will hang tough through nearly anything and everything. Still prefer a larger hole than .22 -- they tend to bleed more. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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No doubt about it the 165gr .30cal TSX looks like an axe murder took place. P | |||
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wowdidnt go all the way through!! ****************************************************************** SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM *********** | |||
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I kill over 100 a year(prolly more than anyone you know, just not as good with posting pics) 70 + with a 223 ( most drt) bullet plaecment is what matters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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rem700-3 wrote:
Actually, I know a couple guys who have killed that many in a single morning. Of course, it did involve a helo... Then there are the ranch hands who spend lots of time afield and are ordered to shoot every hog they see. Most of these guys don't care to keep numbers, but I am sure a few of them easily top 100 hogs annually. I am in no way trying to diminish what you have done, but these are nuisance animals, so 100+ per year is not really that big of a deal in this part of the world. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Hey Bobby...... "Actually, I know a couple guys who have killed that many in a single morning. Of course, it did involve a helo...  Shucks, thats nuthin'.... Why back in '42 whin I worked at th' slaughterhouse, I could kill that many before dinner with both feet on the ground. And they were bigger than yours don'tcha know!!! GWB  | |||
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 Thanks for injecting some fun back into this thread!Oh, and a cape buffalo is just another bovine....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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 Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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I've only taken one so I don't have much to compare it to, but he weighed in at 425. He stopped a 270gr Barnes TSX at about 2800 FPS and was at 30 yards. He did the bang flop thing. Shot went in at the front of the on side shoulder, tore the trachea away from the lungs, tore the aorta off the heart, and spined him. the bullet was in the hair line just behind the off side front leg. Yes it's cocked, and it has bullets too!!! | |||
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Rhys wrote: "Shot went in at the front of the on side shoulder, tore the trachea away from the lungs, tore the aorta off the heart, and spined him." Now THAT is impressive considering the hog's anatomical distance between the heart and the spine. Seems like that Barnes took the scenic route. Maybe that explains why they are so much more expensive than cup and core bullets... Anyway, with a 270 grain projectile at that velocity, I am guessing his introduction to the ground was a rather quick one... By the way, CONGRATS are in order as 425 pounds is a WHOPPER, no doubt about it. Do you have any photos you can post? (I have our oldest son -- he is 17 -- tapping me on the shoulder and telling me to please ask you to post photos. He's definitely a hog hunting addict. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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What I believe may have happened to cause the damage at the aorta may have been from the verteba in the spine that were shattered. Possibly sending fragments down into the aorta destroying it. I'll have to try scanning some of the pics in that actually show his size well. Here is one I already had on my computer. for some perspective. I'm about 240# in this pic.  Yes it's cocked, and it has bullets too!!! | |||
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